martha: the next chapter being written on this discussion of health care. bill: we will see you on radio and again at 1:00 p.m. it goes on and on. happening now starts right now. >> we begin with this fox news alert with kathleen sebelius who has returned to capitol hill for round two on the botched obamacare rollout. good morning, i am jon scott. >> and i am harris faulkner and for generally. last night was the house and today the senate finance committee. we have been following this on the fox news channel and the health and human services secretary is fielding tough questions from both sides of the political aisle. there is a mad -- to fix it. peter ducey begins our live

coverage. reporter: that is right, secretary kathleen sebelius says that hhs is on a aggressive schedule. basically a bunch of problems listed in order of importance. experts have assured the administration and health care.gov is not fatally flawed in that it does not need to go off-line to get fixed. >> given the fact that various fixes, particularly of functionality fixes have to be written in batches, it has been advised that you don't gain much from this taken the whole system down for a couple of weeks, it's better to do this on an ongoing basis. >> the ranking republican on the senate finance committee, orin hatch from utah says that he wants secretary sebelius to update his committee on progress of health care.gov once a month for six months.

rr 'll get back to it. thank you, john. jon: and idaho secretary mike crapo has been asking questions about the implementation of obamacare. let's listen in as a response continues. >> we have an all time lower rate. >> you can go through those points in the data set that you are talking about. but on the flipside, we are seeing millions of americans lose their health care. millions and millions more to their health care premiums going up and the price for some of these services is phenomenally higher and isn't it time to go in and take a look at the areas of the law but are simply >> actually, senator, in the marketplace, the rates have come in about 16% lower than what the

congressional budget office projected the rates to be. >> that is the true direction after -- that's not lower than actual facts. >> those were the projections, the rates were lower, a lot like we just heard senator talking about. the projections around medicare part d, the raid came in significantly. >> are using that in the individual market, insurance rates are going down? >> i didn't say they are going down, but that the rates are lower than even what was predicted. for millions of people in the market, they will actually for the first time ever have some financial help paying for their health insurance. >> we are going to have to move on here. >> mr. chairman, one of the toughest public service jobs i have ever had is the elected insurance commissioner of florida. and one of the most bedeviling insurance markets was the

individual insurance policy. because what would happen people would be enticed to come in with cheap health insurance and then over time as the group got older and sicker, there was no control on the rates and they would go up and then they found limited health insurance. that is what the affordable care act is trying to address and we are talking about the individual insurance policies are not the group policies. in this particular case we now have no lifetime limits and we don't have pre-existing conditions and you can each look in your states and find many examples where the so-called

cancellation has occurred, but in fact they are going into a policy is going to give them protections because of the 10 things that are required. in the affordable care act, individual health insurance policies. so i would ask my colleagues as they look at this to please consider, for example. a lady in florida had a policy that was $54 per month. it sounds great, it's being canceled. but when you got into the internals as reported, blowing the hold she didn't have much coverage at all and had she gotten a disease like cancer, she would have virtually had no coverage.

she's going to have the coverage under the policies of the individualt that are covered. someone to say at what is going on in the states. take a state like kentucky. they did their work. in the first month they signed up 30,000 people. my state is one of 27 states basically, i think, because of politics that they decided not to do anything about. owing to expand medicaid and look at the difficulty that now the federal government has had to set up this exchange in 27 states and why couldn't we have been like kentucky and be way ahead of the game and finally i

would say that obviously there is no excuse for the website not working. i am one of the ones that said, and mr. chairman, people twisted the words that the website wasn't working and i was certainly one of said it was inexcusable and people ought to be held to account. adam secretary, what legal authority do you have to guarantee the contractors that are responsible for this thing not working are going to be held accountable? >> senator, we have significant contracts with a number of key outside entities in the cgi and ssi are two of them and we have paid out, i would say, a portion of the money that has been

encumbered for the website and it is clearly not up and running at a sufficient level at this point, and we have new management and one of the key contractors is driving part of this fix. and we will make sure that the funding that has been provided delivers on a product that was promised and it's not there yet, and that is a commitment and we are working with our auditors and teens make sure that they are clearly reviewed and we have the opportunity to make sure that the product that we need and have committed to is delivered. >> mr. chairman, i will make a final statement as someone who has fought and bled for this and

you sincerely think that it's going to work in the long run. i want you to hold those accountable and i want to talk about not being responsible and producing a product that all this could be proud of. thank you, mr. chairman. >> madame secretary, i want to remind everyone again how we got here today. over a year ago the requested information on the rollout of the exchanges and said we only received assurances that everything will go smoothly. in march we started hearing from people directly involved in the exchanges and some were deeply worried about the websites launch. in june, a report was issued and it should serve as a warning to you as it highlighted the implementation challenges that we now know were never

addressed. i would like to stress that it was a warning to me and by july it was clear to me that your department is being less than transparent about whether the changes would be ready by october the first, as a result i introduced the exchange sunset act of 2013 and my bill would've sunset at the exchanges of the the individual mandate the beneficiaries could not enroll starting october 1, a promise. in august, the hhs office of inspector general identified privacy and security vulnerabilities and determined a critical task remained to be completed in a short period of time. in early september, the main website contractor going to see a mass that they were falling behind on their highest priority items. the warning includes they may not have enough time for testing and that services were intermittently unavailable. yet several days later, the white house announced that the data hub was ready for

operation. in mid-september, cms ordered a contractor to make a significant change to the system to require people to submit their personal information before viewing any plans or associated costs. on september 26, days before the launch, testing showed that a few hundred visitors crashed the website. the very next day, the decision was made to move forward with with the launch of health care doc of knowing that there was a high security risk during testing. in short, madame secretary, i believe you were given counsel warning from expert insider agency and outside of the health care exchanges were not going to be ready. furthermore, i believe to protect the administration, you chose to ignore the warnings and as a result you have put an entire health care system and won six of our economy in jeopardy. people are angry. millions of americans are

scared. they don't know whether they will have coverage in a matter of weeks were what their coverage will include an error now getting letters from the insurance companies that they don't understand and in fact more people are losing their insurance and are signing up on the website and they are being directed to the website that doesn't even work. we don't often talk about life and death and the context it deserves. but at this time it is real and it means the difference between life and death for many americans who are at a loss for what to do. we know, madame secretary, and fixing the website will not ever fix the ramifications of assault from the slot. so i have to wonder if you have any regrets at all that he failed to heed the warnings and that you ignored the calls for members of congress and you proceeded to open the exchanges on october 1 and immediately

followed by a taxpayer funded promotional tour to kill everyone that it's sort of a great problem to have. well, kansans don't think these are great problems to have. stephen wrote in topeka that i am completely disgusted and i've spent the last two days trying to get my application through and this would not be a critical issue except the insurance coverage they currently have is going away because of the new federal requirements, though we were promised that if you like your current coverage you can keep it. you know that this law has several problems and mutilate over half of the mandate deadlines. ditto for employers and unions and small business, but not for the exchanges and not for millions of other americans that are losing their health care and it are worried and they have fear that is palpable. the main goal should have been ensuring their safety, but in your zeal to implement this law,

nothing was deterring you from implementing the exchanges and you have said that america should hold you accountable, which is why today i repeat my request for you to resign. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, mr. chairman and madame secretary. thank you for joining us. the problems we are facing with the marketplace website are substantial and unacceptable and need to be fixed immediately. i would like to take a second to put things in a historical perspective. social security, facing hurdles, problems with social security, medicare facing trouble, prices for medicare, medicare drug benefit, the medicare drug mass, those are headlines of the '30s and 60s in the early

part of this decade about major programs that have become beloved in terms of the social safety net in this country in health care security. so while this is not excusable, by the same token it is a challenge that has been faced time and time again when any major program has been unveiled. and i find it amazing that those that seek to ascribe blame are the same folks that have spent every waking hour of the last four years working to dismantle and destroy and obstruct and impede the success of the affordable care act. they are concerned not about the failure, but they are concerned about its success. so i hope that what we will focus on is how do we succeed now. and those of us on the committee

worked to put but this bill together, i guess we were under the faulty assumption that state-controlled by republican legislators are governors would have a higher premium and the opportunity for their citizens with some ideological opposition, which is why we are seeing far better success in those states that have established their own marketplace. what is the consequence of having so many of the states not pursue their own marketplace and delegated to the federal government. did you envision having that many states not open up their own marketplace, and what has been the consequences of the burden? >> i would say that we really didn't know. twenty-seven states have sued around the constitutionality of the bill and there was an uncertainty of what would happen

when the court declared a constitutional and how the states would be reacting. some chose a partnership that we would run the bulk of the exchange and others have refused to participate at all and i would say that uncertainty added to the uncertainty of how large the operation would be and having said that, we did have deadlines in january of 2013 to officially declare whether they would run their own marketplace or not, and by the middle of february, a partnership plan. but we have 36 states who are using the federal hub at this point and i think that that is significantly higher than people might have predicted initially. and we have robust product offerings in the market places,

very competitive, about a fourth of the insurers are brand-new, which is good news to a lot of the people that have been in a monopoly market for a long time. >> isn't fair to say that the state were statement marketplaces seem to be having greater success? jon: kathleen sebelius, secretary of health and human services getting a grilling on capitol hill this morning from the senate finance committee. you can watch the entire hearing streaming live for you on fox news.com. and in the meantime, obamacare insurance cancellations are sparking a lawsuit against anthem would cost in california. some consumers say they were tricked into giving a policy that they liked, thus losing their grandfathered status. kate rogers is a reporter for fox business and took a look at what is going on. tell us about these lawsuits? >> yes, consumers are getting more and more cancellation

letters. they are taking on the insurance companies and they said that they were misled in giving misinformation and were made to cancel their plans back in 2011. had they not, their plans would've been grandfathered in and essentially that would've been able to keep the plants that they liked and had had for years the wants of this goes to the president's promise that if you like your health care plan you can keep it? >> exactly. there's so much going on between insurance companies and these consumers are looking for accountability. the attorney said it's not about money but about choice. these people want their old plans back. but chances are interesting. they are not looking for monetary damage. they are asking that anthem not cancel any other policies without giving long-term policyholders the option to go back to their plan, which would be grandfathered in. that is what they are asking for

the insured. the analysts i spoke to said this is not something they perceive them winning, but it could be something that more consumers are getting an idea about and could maybe try to go to balfour on their own. jon: the entire problem seems to be that obamacare has really upset the apple cart. it has turned the health-insurance industry on its head, and now not only the consumers, but the companies are struggling to comply with requirements of the law. >> they absolutely are. one of the plaintiffs here is a cancer survivor in death have the same doctor for years and he wants to be able to continue and see his doctor and keep up with him. under his new policy, which is more expensive, he can no longer go to the doctors that he trusts and has been with for so long. the one key rogers, thank you. harris: and the senator is

talking right now to kathleen sebelius before senate members, talking about the failures of the obamacare website anmore. she is in the hot seat for the second time on the hill and just a week. we are sticking with this hearing. on the hill, when we come back, we will resume.

harris: right now the question has just been asked by the senator in wyoming about the broken promise. what happens when you lose your plan that he said he really liked and now kathleen sebelius is going to answer that question. >> we are talking about the

increases that were put in a spot. it was isn't bringing in this to provide the revenue to do this. >> when the affordable care act was passed, 100% of the states would expand medicaid and a voluntary expansion for states. they have declared their interest in moving ahead with medicaid expansion, and that expansion was fully paid for within the affordable care act tenure window and it is part of the law that was passed in 2010 and it was not part of the deficit but part of the law. unlike medicare part b.

>> okay, i will submit more questions and writing. thank you. >> thank you, senator. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i am convinced that the fundamentals of the affordable care act the we have seen over the last three years, the implementation in an orderly way, protecting millions of americans on this coverage and giving assurances that the practices that existed before the affordable care act are being dealt with. so this goes back before the passage of the affordable care act and we have seen how many people have lost coverage. reducing benefits, increasing premiums, we now have stability in the market and that is due to the affordable care act. i would like to also point out immigrants to the exchanges the number of insurance carriers are

offering plans and pricing of the plans came in much stronger than we anticipated when we passed a portable care act. i share the concern as to how the website works. jon: if you would like to continue to watch this testimony in front of the senate finance committee, we have extremely poor you live on fox news.com. it was election day yesterday in a couple of states, notably virginia. is that coloring in any way that testimony of the questions from some of the senate finance committee members? two i anticipated that it would more than what we have seen so far. so far we have seen a lot of

this which is not up for reelection we have seen wagon circling and kathleen sebelius, more so than we would have seen before. punishing the contractors and a lot of complaints about the website not being ready on time released but least from the democratic side. the republicans are coming out guns blazing. but just listen to is saying that the great thing about the obamacare transition is that it stabilizes the insurance market and it's not as chaotic as it once was. which is crazy talk. you have millions of people having their lives thrown into chaos. and this is bizarre. >> people will see through those claims, is that right? on for some of these, i don't know when some of them are up for reelection, but some folks in 2014 aren't too particularly worried about what they are

saying in this hearing, are they >> i should've gone through the roster of which democrats were on the committee beforehand to see which ones were more likely to run for cover. because we saw in virginia was terry mcauliffe lose a massive lead, basically because the obamacare disaster and you still have barack obama going to virginia and not even mentioning the obamacare when he was on the stump for terry mcauliffe. and my assumption is there a lot of democrats who are looking at that in saying this is terry mcauliffe losing what was a double-digit lead because a couple weeks of bad stories about obamacare. there will be months and months ahead of bad stories of obamacare. jon: we have heard senator pat roberts call for her resignation. so far there has not been a huge lead of that. every indication from the

administration and she's going to keep her job. is it because it would be too embarrassing at this point to add to the misery? by kicking out the health and human services secretary whose job it has been to implement this law? >> i think basically the obama administration doesn't want hearings on a replacement and that's what it boils down to. kathleen sebelius is safe in her job at least until the end of november when the website is supposed to work. we will see. but i would have liked her to take a page from the mayor of toronto and say that we made this website in a drunken stupor and it's just something that happened. [laughter] jon: i don't think she's going to say that. [laughter] but it is an interesting thought. stick with us if you want for just a bit. harris: now i have to get my serious face time to go back to this hearing. okay, we are going to go back to the hearing where kathleen sebelius is answering questions before the senate on capitol hill today about obamacare and

the website and what has gone wrong. we will do that momentarily and we will talk about what is also happening with voters sending a message in a tight race that came down to the wire of obamacare. >> i want to thank the voters of virginia who went out and voted for us today. from lee county to virginia beach, to winchester. thank you for what you have done to help us get elected. harris: we will talk with larry sabado coming up next if you think a prune is a prune, you haven't tried sunsweet, the amazing prune. enjoy plum amazins, diced prunes. i'd put these on a salad. these would be perfect for cookies. delicious and nutritious sunsweet, the amazing prune. hey, i notice your car yeah. it's in the shop. it's going to cost me an arm and a leg. you shoulda taken it to midas. they tell you what stuff

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jon: play-by-play as we go back to capitol hill. harris: senator john cornyn says that kathleen sebelius is not answering his questions directly. >> congress depends upon this. many people will not be able to either employer-provided coverage and hands my conclusion that this is a false statement and this administration has consistently doubled on on this and repeated time and time again. the only thing i can conclude is that it is impossible to do something in this administration that gets you fired. it's impossible.

you can lie to the american people, you can misrepresent the facts. but it's impossible to get fired. so i want to ask you about the navigators. the presence in dallas, texas, touting this, which as you know are those who are navigating the affordable care act. i would like to ask you this question if you'd answer it. is it true that there is no federal requirement for navigators to undergo a criminal background check, even though they will receive personal -- sensitive personal information from individuals and help they hope to sign up for the portable care act. >> that is true. states could add an additional background check and other features but it is not part of the federal requirement. >> so i convicted felon could be a navigator and could acquire sensitive personal information from an individual unbeknownst to them? >> that is possible.

we have contracts with the organizations and they have taken the responsibility to screen their individual navigators and make sure that they are efficiently trained for the job and there is a self adaptation, but it's possible. thank you, senator. >> thank you, mr. chairman. two madame secretary, nice to see you. i want to start with a small business owner in hudson. he said that i'm a father and small business owner and i began my business in 2009 and decided to quit my day job and it's the best decision i ever made. a more successful today than i ever would've imagined. but no company would sell me health insurance due to pre-existing conditions. jon: we are going to move away from the hearing for just a little bit. if you want to continue to watch it, we have it on fox news.com.

but they're are some other important stories to talk about that have national implications, including the governor's race in virginia. election results there has made national headlines not just because terry mcauliffe on the race. the margin of victory is a lot closer than expected as obamacare became a hot issue in the weeks leading up to election day. let's talk about it with a man who knows virginia well. larry sabado is director at the university of virginia politics. were you surprised that the race is as close as it was? >> everyone was surprised. at least outside of the campaign. we rely upon polling averages and the polling average of all of them taken in the recent weeks together suggested that terry mcauliffe had a 17 maccabee point lead. he ended up winning by 2.5 points. the question is why.

the campaign of can cuccinelli, after the shutdown changed, we moved from the government shutdown to the obamacare disaster and that is an issue that helps republicans. jon: well, cuccinelli campaign hired. is that something that can be decisive? >> that is the issue that heat stress in every appearance that he made public. another smart thing that he did the complement of that was he had ron paul and rand paul in virginia. why did i matter? because there was a libertarian candidate that was polling about 10% and a fair chunk of that was coming out of his hide.

he ended up giving up 10% at 6.6%. i think that with the help of ron and rand paul, managed to peel away from the libertarian spirit it was obamacare plus republicans coming home to ken cuccinelli. jon: and they also said that terry mcauliffe had that huge lead and did that turn out to be a mistake in terms of republican strategy? >> in a word, yes. there is a lot of anger in the camp of ken cuccinelli. i have talked to some of the senior people this morning and i could not quote on television the sorts of things i was told. but yes, they are very angry at the republican national

committee and at the republican governors association and they believe that if they had had the resources to compete on equal terms with terry mcauliffe, overcoming this 2.5%, i don't know whether that is accurate or not, but it is a perfectly legitimate argument for them to make. jon: terry mcauliffe is a well-known name. he is very tight with bill and hillary clinton, but he's never held elective office. what are the challenges that lie ahead for him in virginia? >> they are enormous. last night even while terry mcauliffe was winning, the republicans held an enormous majority in the house of delegates. they only lost one seat. just imagine what that will be like. if terry mcauliffe thinks that obama has a guide with u.s. house of representatives be controlled by a narrow margin,

imagine what terry mcauliffe will face as governor of virginia and of course he hasn't been around very long and he doesn't know where the bodies are buried. [laughter] jon: it will be interesting to watch. bob mcdonald is giving the reins over to terry mcauliffe that was elected. i know you you'll be there to watch it with us. thank you. harris: as this hearing is coming out. people are chatting in and out. senator john cornyn out of texas was asking kathleen sebelius just moments ago, she admitted to him that it is possible to convicted felon could become an obamacare navigator on the website and hit a personal information. the context of that no doubt, we are following this closely and they are talking about problems with the website and those

problems continue and there she is, kathleen sebelius in the hot seat. please stay with us when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger.

jon: a fox news alert. the senate finance committee hearing from the secretary of health and human services, mrs. senator john thune of south dakota asking the questions. >> it's very controversial, but we felt it was important and we also in the grandfather clause, have been written into the larger employer plans with the same kind of caveat. and i can tell you that for the vast majority of people who get employer based health care in a public plan would he be a plan or medicare, part of the insurance market.

their plans are very much in place and there is change coming in the individual marketplace with consumer protections that many people have never enjoyed were experienced. they don't have a plan that they had in 2013. >> do think that americans in that market should be able to keep lands that they like him even if the government doesn't approve of them? >> if the plan was in place from the time that the law was passed, that's what the grandfather clause says. >> i think most americans believe in grace and are pretty forgiving people. they will tolerate and accept honest mistakes. but this is a dishonest mistake to me. this is a dishonestly. misleading the american people, even the president has over and over again. i would much rather that you come up and say that we we were wrong and didn't tell the truth. and it's a pinocchio thing and you have four pinocchio's on that statement. it strikes me that it would be -- people would be accepting of

it. and it's one of the things that when people were sold this, it was based upon. i think it is a tragedy that the american people bought into this and that you all knew full well that wasn't going to be the case. >> thank you, senator. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for being here today and we appreciate your testimony. and he testified in her opening statement that you had been hired to do the organization of the web and the hub. is that correct? >> they have taken on a new role in the last couple of weeks of organizing the fixes that are going in. they were a contractor for the house. >> okay, are you aware that in june of this year inspector general issued a report finding

this guilty that expose 6 million medicare beneficiaries with private information? >> i am aware of that, sir. my understanding is they basically inherited a contract from another contractor and they did not have initially the various provisions in place. they immediately fixed it in the transition and they did report that to us. >> is there a cost-plus to do what they are doing and correct them and make sure it doesn't happen again? >> that was corrected immediately and absolutely there is a provision to make sure they comply with all of these cms requirements. >> the subjects of information securities has been the bane of my questions. i sent a have sent a letter with a member of the committee asking if you receive this and understand that you do

understand. what are you doing to ensure the navigators protect private information for american citizens? >> the navigators must go through a minimum of 20 hours of training and a significant portion focuses on privacy and security issues. and as you know what the with the new law there is no personal health information ever collected or needed, so they don't have access to that, unlike an insurance agent today who collects financial information. >> i would like to interrupt you. jon: that is senator johnny isakson questioning kathleen sebelius of the senate finance committee hearings on obamacare. he will be our guest next hour and we will get his thoughts on how these hearings are going. we assume things can change and sometimes because of the nature of the hearing he may be

required to remain in the hearing and will be able to join us. but he will be our guest next hour and we will talk to him hopefully next

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harris: welcome back to happening now. we have been hearing live of what is playing out on capitol hill. inside the senate chamber as we have health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius in the hot seat once again. just to give you a play-by-play, pat roberts asked if she had any regrets and called on her to resign. the witness got pretty dramatic inside the hearing and then texas republican john cornyn asked her whether about keeping

her health plan is true or false and they went back and forth about this. and she would not answer directly. we will get back in as the news once in the hearing. but so far there has been a lot of reasons to go back. right now jenna goldberg of national review online comes back with a fox news contributor to join us again to go through this whole thing. your response right now just in the last few minutes to what is going on. >> i think the problem is that she doesn't have the authority to tell the truth to get this passed. so she basically has to dig in deeper on the lies they have already told. when natural instincts tell us

that this is a problem, that obama has lied community you have problems. earlier in the hearing, one senator questioned kathleen sebelius when she said that premiums have gone lower than what the cbo projected and the senator said are you saying that premiums are lower for americans and kathleen sebelius that that is not what i was saying. just lower than some cbo projections have said they would be. harris: i have asked some to send in their questions. how did democrats define success when it comes obamacare? really quickly, what are your thoughts? >> if it becomes popular and enough people -- as it starts to ring up large numbers of winners and compare tivoli few numbers of losers, that's a long time

coming. it's possible it could happen, but then we just have the fiscal disaster that this thing represents. but for now it's pretty even. it's not losers outnumbered winners. jon: okay, we will be right back

jon: high noon on the east coast and we begin with this fox news alert. kathleen sebelius back on the hot seat as lawmakers grill her again about the botched rollout of obamacare. hello to you. thanks for joining us. i'm jon scott. harris: welcome to the second hour of "happening now," i'm harris faulkner in for my friend jenna lee. kathleen sebelius facing tough questions from democrats and republicans over what went wrong with the roleout of the healthcare law and the glitch site despite the president's repeated promise if you like your doctors and insurance plans you can keep them. >> it is clear that the problems you have encountered thus far were not unforeseen. two separate reports, one from the government accountability

office in june and another from the department of health and human services office of the inspector general in august identified significant implementation challenges months ahead of the october 1st deadline. more and more promises made at this time are made at the time this law was passed are now crumbling under the weight of reality on a daily basis. >> in the last five weeks access to healthcare.gov has been a miserably frustrating experience for far too many of these americans. it is unacceptable. i am focused on fixing it and i'm accountable. for millions of americans delay is not an option. >> why not shut down and do it right? >> the president promised if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. again, millions of americans are finding out they can't keep their doctor. the president promised, we can cut the average family's premium by about $2500 a year. and although i read your testimony where you talk about

premiums going down, i don't know what data sets you are using because the data that i'm aware of show that the premiums in the individual market are skyrocketing. >> you have said america should hold you accountable which is why today, madam secretary, i repeat my request for you to resign. harris: it was pretty hot inside that hearing. chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel is live for us on capitol hill. sebelius hearing from key senators on finance committee. some word very tough as you heard a call for her to resign there? >> reporter: harris, no question about that. and bottom line, the promise from the administration that healthcare.gov, the website will be running smoothly by the end of november and democrat max baucus, the chairman of this committee emphasized the critical importance of that deadline and called for sebelius to be candid with congress. >> myself i want this to work, do what i can to help you make it work but it means it is

two-way street, you have to tell us what is going on candidly, fully, totally. >> yes. >> so we don't wake upend of november, low and behold we're still not there yet. >> reporter: the committee's top republican, orrin hatch from utah says the administration a has not been truthful on obamacare. >> put simply, there is a long track record of broken promises and untruthful answers to both this committee and the american people with respect to how this law should work or would work and the impact it would have. now i hope that that will stop today. no more caveats. no more excuses. no more spin. just give us the truth. >> reporter: probably most tense moment when kansas republican senator pat roberts told fellow kansan kathleen sebelius who reiterated his call for her to resign but did it face-to-face. harris: saturday night for 12 hours they completely shut done

healthcare.gov. one. persistent questions on the hill, why don't you do that for a while, like a couple of weeks until the website could be fixed by contractors? what has been sebelius's response? >> reporter: that's right, you heard max baucus the chairman of the committee who is an ally of administration why not shut it down and do it right. sebelius countered saying delay is not an option. >> delaying the affordable care act wouldn't delay people's cancer or diabetes or parkinson's. wouldn't delay the need for mental health services or cholesterol screening or prenatal care. delaying the affordable care act doesn't delay foreclosures notice for families forced into bankruptcy by unpayable medical bills. >> reporter: many lawmakers have to get actual hard numbers how many people are successful signing up for the president's health care law. no hard numbers. we expect those sometime next week. at this hour, questioning continues. harris. harris: other than the six from

the first day that the site went online. mike emanuel, thank you. >> reporter: thank you. jon: so for more on the obamacare hearing today let's bring in juan williams, fox news political analyst. charlie hirt is with us as well. he is a columnist at "the washington times." how would you like, juan, to trade jobs with kathleen sebelius today? >> i think she has been handling it pretty well. she is under a lot of fire as we've been seeing and she remained calm. i was particularly struck by home state senator pat roberts, known her family for a long time, getting in her face, jon and saying he thinks she should resign. he said that before, but this time directly to her and again, it didn't seem to plusser her. jon: all right, charlie, there are still all kind of problems with the website. she has been saying they have got it up to the point where 11,000 users at a time can log on but they're still not giving any statistics how many people of those people signed up for obamacare. >> the word that we hear from hhs at this point is that it

will be not until next week or the week after that we start to get some of those numbers which, quite frankly that in and of itself is indicative what a disaster this whole thing has been. the idea that you can't give such simple information at this point and quite frankly would i imagine it has more to do with the fact that those numbers are going to be very, very embarrassing for president obama and for kathleen sebelius and, that is why they're putting off releasing them as long as they can and, with some, you know, hail mary hope that they miraculously manage to get 10 of, or hundred of thousands of more, you know, enrollees signed up by that time. jon: yeah, isn't it the case, juan, we will really not know how much this program will cost until we see how many people sign up and we see the ages and the, the categories into which they fit? >> exactly right. i mean, and you know, i mean,

from the administration's point of view you have until the end of march to do it. so it is not as if there is any tremendous pressure on the moment other than awful rollout and public embarassment and what you see kathleen sebelius going through this morning. their point is, you know what? there will be four months for people to shop around. if you look at the model in mass pass, there was very low level of enrollment in the first month of massachusetts as well. that is all excuse-making from my point of view because the rollout has been disasterous. jon: the rollout has been disasterous, and, charlie, we're starting to see some of the consequences of implementation of obamacare. people who listened to the president's promise about keeping your health plan if you liked it and now they're finding you can't. >> yeah. you know, listening to some of this hearing people like senator pat roberts from kansas, these are not highly partisan, they're conservatives but these are not highly partisan

senators. and they are, they are unleashed on kathleen sebelius and i think it is because the, it has become very, is a very mainstream sort of complaint to want to pull your hair out over this and i think it is quite frankly what we saw in virginia where ken cuccinelli, closed that gap from a solid double-digit, you know, behind, to bring it to within a couple of points? i can't help but think, a lot of that has to do with, just absolute rage among independents and even probably a lot of democrats over what a complete disaster this whole rollout has been. jon: juan, when you hear people like senator barbara mikulski of maryland who has been a supporter of the program and saying this thing has been so badly handled that she believes there is going to be a crisis of confidence and people just aren't going to want to enroll. if you're in the white house, that can not sound good. >> no. and, that is the price, that is the real price here.

once we get away from all the theatrics jon, the real prices people saying hey, this thing is not working. an excuse not to get involved, or think it is just too difficult for me. if you think, oh, fee, why should i bother? it is not working i put off to another day. they want people to have a positive can-do attitude towards it. i think that is why you hear democrats like ma cull can i, democrats like ron wyden of oregon, get away from the republican democrat. do what is right for the american people and fix this thing and fix it now. that pragmatic attitude is what you're hearing from democrats who are trying to be supportive. jon: all right. but republicans it should be pointed out didn't vote for the thing. juan williams, juan williams, charlie hirt, thank you both. >> you're welcome, jon. harris: well, president obama is heading to the home state of one of fiercest opponents of obamacare. white house is signaling a new course in response to texas governor rick perry's refusal to implement a key part of the president's signature health care law.

a heart-warming welcome for our heroes coming home from overseas. it is coming from passengers. at one of the nation's busiest airports.

harris: "happening now," president obama is getting ready to visit dallas, texas to try to sell the affordable care act to try to prop up enrollment. but he is facing stiff opposition from governor rick perry who is no fan of the law despite the texas has the highest rate of uninsured people in the nation. casey stiegel is live in dallas. casey. >> reporter: good to see you. most analysts said the success of obamacare really hinged on the state of texas when you consider more than six million people in this state do not have health insurance. 24% of the total population, more than any other part of the country. so it is no coincidence that

secretary sebelius herself has visited the lonestar state twice just before the october 1st start date and two weeks ago. today it is president obama's turn, meeting with workers and volunteers in dallas who are helping people sign up for the affordable health care act of the because demand in texas is so high and opposition by power phil leaders is so great, and some are taking matters into their own hand to make sure folks do not slip through the political cracks. we're seeing a lot of grass root enrollment centers popping up in shopping malls, churches and people are filing through to learn about options and getting signed up. we know enrollment totals are not available. volunteers are optimistic despite all the website glitches that led to the sloppy rollout. >> well the frustration definitely built since we started on october 1st. i have great confidence that we will be able to enroll people in

plans by december 15th so their insurance will start january 1st. >> reporter: local municipalities also getting involved. cities and counties are training their own staff to be able to sign people up for this. so we'll see if president obama will turn the heat up on governor perry with his visit here later today, harris. harris: casey stiegel, thank you very much. >> reporter: yep. adam: meanwhile, a group of marines mcing the trip home get the rock star treatment. it is a great story. 13 marines at chicago o'hare after their latest tour in afghanistan, welcomed home with a fire truck salute. cheers from the crowd. volunteers set up the event after they called them to set up a small welcome. the ma reasons thanked everyone saying they were incredibly touched. harris: would you, love that one. a kennedy cousin is geting a new

murder trial. we'll go live to the court house where michael skakel is hearing from the judge for his effort to get out of prison. a racy rant at a restaurant puting a middle school football coach i should say, in the unemployment line. about a coach who fought to take his team to hooters. a vermont school doing away with dancing. we'll tell you why the students lost the privilege to, twerk it out. ♪ e right choice.

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jon: fox news alert. going to take you back to the hearing room in the u.s. capitol where the senate finance committee is grilling kathleen sebelius, the secretary of health and human services. the questioner at the moment, tom carper, democrat from delaware. >> one of those is the idea of large purchasing pools. we call them the exchanges. and that's not necessarily a democratic idea. i think it was a republican idea if i'm not mistaken to hillary care. it was republican alternative to actually incorporate it and make it work. it's a good idea. the idea of the individual mandate, that's, is, as i recall, that's, i think a heritage foundation idea that, governor romney embraced and part of the law in massachusetts. let me just ask, madam chairman, looking forward, wave had i think, roughly 10 hearings, congressional hearings just before the implementation of the

law, since implementation of the law october 1st, i think when we were doing this six, seven years ago, two hearings. i think first one was four months after the program was implemented and we decided back then, not just harange and harass people who were trying to implement the program. let them do it. and bring them in for a hearing after the fact and what went wrong and what went right. that's what we node to do. he is my question. report to us on the progress repairing federal exchange, what improvements have americans seen in the last month, what can we see in the next several weeks? >> well, senator , i think there are, i'm the first to admit that the rollout has been excruciatingly awful for way too many people. a lot of people couldn't get in the site in the first place. and then, when, they were able to access the site, screens would go down all the time. they couldn't get from place to

place. i would say those are the two primary areas of focus and, we are in a continue with us improvement -- continuous improvement era on a very regular basis with a very rigorous schedule of improvements we are adding hardware and software to fix the functionality, getting people from place to place, increase the speed, and make sure we are able to handle the volume of people who clearly want to use and access the site on a regular basis. there have been significant improvements. we are not satisfied at all where we are now. we are committed to an end of november experience that is significantly better on volume and speed and reliance and making sure we get to people. and we have a very specific plan to go back and reinvite people back to the site who started at

one point along the way and may have been so frustrated that they gave up. we don't want to do that until we're sure that their experience will be significantly better than it was the first time. we know that a lot of young folks have little patience with any technology that doesn't work instantaneously. so, that audience is particularly important to get a very highly-functional site up and running and that is exactly what we're doing. >> thank you, senator , very much. appreciate it. now i will turn to the most patient member of committee. senator burr. >> thank you, mr. chairman. secretary sebelius thank you for being here. yesterday administrator tavenner testified on the security testing for healthcare.gov which was broken down into testing for the hub and for the federally facilitated marketplace system. she testified there had been no end to end testing on the federally facilitated

marketplace. in fact she approved a september 27th memo that to move forward with issuing the authority to operate. the memo specifically noted this, and i would like to quote it. quote, from a security perspective the aspects of the system that were not tested due to ongoing development expose ad level of uncertainty that can be deemed as high-risk for the federally facilitated marketplace system. yes or no, were you aware of that memo? >> i was made aware of it recently. i did not know that the memo existed in september. >> how many times did you and administrator tavenner talk about the security aspects and specifically this decision to move forward with the authority to operate? >> we did not discuss the authority to operate. >> did you at any point notify the white house of the security concerns that existed about the exchange? >> i would say that there were

conversations, senator , about, risks -- >> did the white house -- >> but i was not aware of this and i did not have these discussions with the white house because i wasn't aware of them. >> did the white house know there had been no end to end testing of the security aspects of the exchange? >> i think, the white house was aware of the operational issues involving end to end testing and, i don't know the specifics of, again, i did not have the discussions about this authority to operate issue with the white house. >> you testified last week in the house, that it was the law that made you stand up the exchange on october 1. in fact the statute, as i read it requires enrollment to start. it does not require the exchange to stand up. were you given different legal advice within hhs? >> senator , what the law says is that benefits started on

january 1st. the law also said that the secretary shall designate by regulation a state of -- date of open enrollment and that regulation needed to be promulgated, by i think it was june of 2013? >> correct, but that did not require you to stand up the website? it required you to open enrollment. >> open enrollment, yes. and a significant portion of open enrollment was -- >> let me ask you a question. if administrator tavenner had not done the authority to operate, if she had not signed it the exchange would not have stood up on october 1, would it? >> that's correct but a short-term, temporary authority to operate was done specifically because she had advice from her senior i.t. and operations team as well as -- >> so it wasn't the statute that

made the website stand up on october 1, was it? >> open enrollment -- jon: republican senator richard brrr! of north carolina -- burr, questioning the health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius as she testifies in front of the senate finance committee, pretty good grilling questions from some members of the committee about the rollout of obamacare, that is what she is testifying about. we'll take a short break and pay a couple of bills. if you would like to continue to watch that, we have it for you streaming live on foxnews.com. harris: before we go, a very close finish and a closely-watched governor's race with republican ken cuccinelli losing by a slim margin to his democrat rival in virginia. not what they expected. big names from both parties coming out in a pivotal swing state. national implications how close it was for the election results. we're live with the story. plus a big victory for governor christie of new jersey. what it means for his own political future and that of the gop nationwide.

we'll go in depth. >> fascinating hearing. >> you're getting answers? >> we'll have a lot of analysis for you at the top of the hour. we'll have ed rollins, kirsten powers, senator lamar alexander. >> and you. >> what more do you need? >> top of the hour. see you then. mayo? corn dogs? you are so outta here! aah! [ female announcer ] the complete balanced nutrition of great-tasting ensure. 24 vitamins and minerals, antioxidants, and 9 grams of protein. [ bottle ] ensure®. nutrition inharge™. mmm! this is delicious katie. it's not bad for canned soup, right? pfft! [ laughs ] you nearly had us there. canned soup. [ male announcer ] they just might think it's homemade. try campbell's homestyle soup. how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone

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jon: right now the gop is reading the tea leaves in virginia for next year's midterms and beyond.

this after attorney general ken cuccinelli, narrow loss to terry ma call live to win the governor's mansion, mounting a massive last-minute comeback being outspent and facing top star power in the democratic power. meanwhile governor-elect terry mcauliffe, reaching out to find compromise after a bitter campaign. chief political correspondent carl cameron is live in washington. carl, republicans nearly pulled off an upset in that race. did virginia democrats get a scare? >> reporter: oh, yeah. mcauliffe headquarters between 7:30 and quarter to 9:00 there was a lot of nervousness in terry mcauliffe's forces at that rally. virginia is a key swing state. both parties this morning are going over exit polls trying to figure out ways they can capitalize what worked and minimize things that maybe didn't work so well for either party. the gop's economic message of smaller government did work. 45% of virginia voters said the economy was their top priority

and cuccinelli actually won those voters by 6%, calling for smaller government. the obamacare debacle was a very, very potent issue for the republicans. 25% of all virginia voters said health care was a major concern and cuccinelli carried them by 4% as an ardent foe of the affordable care act. what appears to have hurt cuccinelli was abortion and social conservative issues. 20% said abortion was a key factor, mcauliffe had whopping 25% advantage of those, accusing right waging war on women. seems like every time republicans bring up obamacare, democrats move it to planned parenthood and abortion politics. mcauliffe won woman's vote by nine points. cuccinelli was coming on so strong that a number people at his headquarters openly admitted the race gone couple more days, cuccinelli would have been the winner. >> there were a issues and so forth at play.

the government shutdown. plus a third party candidate, libertarian. >> reporter: shutdown matter particularly because virginia has a lost federal employees living there because they live across the potomac river in d.c. polls showed congress and president equally. more blame among republicans. among federal employees and those that voted last night, 56-37 went for mcauliffe. as for the libertarian spoiler threat, a republican that turned libertarian, robert sarvi. took votes pretty much equally from mcauliffe and cuccinelli and had no impact. cuccinelli worked hard to mutiny impact, bringing out ron paul and rand paul, two libertarian republican conservatives and that helped may have neutralize that effect. obamacare and small government, did well for cuccinelli.

he just ran out of time at the end. jon: very interesting race. carl cameron on it for us. thanks, carl. harris: let's talk more. election reflection. let's look at chris christie's big victory last night as he became the first republican governor in a quarter century to win a second term in the very blue state. during the victory speech last night, governor christie told lawmakers all over washington, d.c. to take note how he rolled to victory. >> leadership is much less about talking than about listening. bringing people around the table. listening to each other. showing them respect. doing what needed to be done, to be able to bring people together, and to achieve, what we needed to achieve to move our state forward. now listen, i know that if we can do, in trenton, new jersey, maybe folks in washington, d.c. should tune in tvs right now, to see how is done. i know that tonight a dispirited

america angry with their dysfunctional government in washington -- [cheers and applause] looks to new jersey to say, is what i think happening really happening? are people really coming together? harris: joining me now, juan williams, fox news political analyst and charlie hirt, columnist at "the washington times." juan, i will start with you. perhaps the most telling sign from governor christie's win last night, 32% democrats voted for him. he didn't win most of the democrat votes but for a republican that is killing it! what do you make of the vote. >> you made the point, harris. if you elect the -- electorate in new jersey, about the republican party, 52% have a

negative effect. what chris christie managed to do is run as chris christie, saying that the pragmatic republican can make inroads with democratic voters. we were listening to carl cameron do the analysis of the virginia race, one of the thing that strikes me is key difference here, chris christie won woman voters in new jersey. he has the same stand on abortion, same-sex marriage that cuccinelli has in virginia. guess what? he was able to say to those women voters, that he stand with them on the these other issues and play down the abortion, social cop serve tim to such an extent, they say i identify with chris christie, he represents me. harris: i know when you win something big, sometimes you're feeling yourself, but, charlie, you could say governor christie was talking to republicans. what's his message to them? >> obviously the 2016 presidential race kicked off last night with that speech that christie gave. he was clearly talking to a much

broader cross-section of republicans than just those in new jersey. i think juan is exactly right. his hope is to focus on him as a, competent, a competent politician who can actually get things done and work across the aisle and all of those things. that is a especially appealing right now as we see all of the problems with obamacare rollout and we have no idea the degree to which the disaster that obamacare has been probably helped him give him a few extra points in new jersey and among women as well. harris: juan, i want to quickly talk with you about hillary clinton. see put her political juice behind and you mentioned race in virginia, terry mcauliffe there, but it was so squeaky close. is this a case of her political cachet she brings might not be able to best the negatives out there because of obamacare? >> i don't know. i mean it is very interesting to me, if you look again at women

and hillary clinton so closely identified and what happened there, i think the reason the polls were off, look at southwestern virginia, coal country, that came in strong for cuccinelli. people thought it wasn't going to be there. people again thought that, women, white woman in particular were going to go for mcauliffe. turns out cuccinelli won white woman even though he lost women overall, harris. i think democrats really felt that if they were able to make the case that the economy and the shutdown was to be blamed on republicans, and they couldn't do it. just didn't work this time. harris: real quickly because i want to give charlie just a chance to get a last word in, your takeaway right now with the hearings that are going on the hill and where the gop might is an argument coming up? are you there, charlie? >> yes, indeed. i think obviously all of this stuff with the obamacare rollout is only going to get worse as we

go on because the glitches will get fixed you about the problems will remain with obamacare and it is going to be a political nightmare for democrats going forward i think. harris: charlie, juan, thank you very much. >> thanks, harris. >> so kathleen sebelius under fire from both democrats and republicans. once again she is facing tough questions about the obamacare rollout and all of the problems we've seen. one of the senators who is doing the grilling in that room, senator john any isakson joins us with his take next.

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jon: happening right now the hearing has ended. max baucus, the chairman, has banged the gavel and health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius is off the hot seat for now. she has been defending the white house decision on the obamacare website and getting it up and running. she testified this morning before that senate finance committee. the secretary said taking down

the site would not help the effort to get it fixed but republican senator from georgia john any isakson said while the site continues to have problems he is more concerned with privacy. >> don't you think there should be similar requirement nationwide by your department that no navigator gets private information unless they have a background check. >> we wrote requirements for navigators mowermirror what many plates have in place for licensed insurance agents and then added a provision that states, could indeed additional requirements. some have chosen to and some have not. >> georgia republican senator john any isakson joins us live with the hearing now ended. senator isakson what are your concerns over privacy regarding obamacare? >> first of all qssi who was just hired to fix the website 10 days ago was found by the on inspector general let over six

million medicare recipients personal information get loose a couple months ago. that was in june. there are a lots of flawed decisions made by labor hhs and cms in the rollout of the website. this is the tip of the iceberg. there are many more problems to be fixed. jon: as the website was so problematic the president and the secretary said, hey, we'll start up a phone line. we'll invite your phone calls. that is where you need navigators, right? >> that's where you need navigators and that is where your personnal information comes into play and that is why they need protections for american consumer to see it their information is not violated. >> are you convinced folks on other end of the phone taking down the personal information are not going to misuse it? >> i'm not convinced that the department is doing what it should to protect the information of the american people. that is paramount in my mind. jon: one of the issues with regard to obamacare has to do with competition. obviously big cities in your state like athens and atlanta, but you have also got large

rural areas and in a lost rural areas, these, health insurance, health insurers, they're usually only a couple of them. from what i am hearing, there isn't a whole lot of competition to drive down the rates for obamacare. >> in southeast georgia, rural peanut and cotton country in our state. , there are only two providers on website. number one. rates doubled and some cases gone up 250%. that is in rural georgia and that is happening all over rural america. jon: so what does the secretary have to say about that? >> sir, secretary confirmed that but didn't talk about any solution. let me tell you what the real problem is. you have two competing philosophieses, single-payer government system the president wants to implement, harry reid said as much and what republicans continue to work for a private competitive solution but not one size fits all government solution. that is the problem. jon: republicans have been

criticized and you heard it criticized from fellow members of committee on the democratic side who said republicans are trying to stop this law, to horrible it. is it fixable do you think? >> in 2009 the health committee i served on the health committee did the markup, when chris scott proceeded on obamacare bill, we offered republican alternative which is about half the size of the president's proposal. had more private sectors solutions, more individual empowerment. they never even allowed it to come to a vote. this was rammed through the congress of the united states. rammed through with the democratic majority. not input you should have had and they're paying the price for it today. jon: are you satisfied with the secretary's answers to your questions about security and privacy? >> i was very disappointed the secretary only said she would take under consideration background checks that should be a minimal requirement. when you're taking people's income tax information, their social security number and their private health information you should be sure the person getting that is a secure person

who will not abuse it or use it. jon: yeah. i think we all want that kind of assurance. senator johnny isakson of georgia. thank you. >> thank you very much. harris: new developments in the trial of that utah doctor i have a accused of killing his beauty queen wife. why martin macneil's one-time girl on the side is taking the stand again. what is means for prosecutors as they wrap up their side of the case. our legal panel weighs in just ahead. ...

... ... ... ...

harris: right now a woman known as the mistress in a murder case is about to be recalled to the witness stand. gypsy willis admitted carrying on a 15-after doctor martin macneil while married to his wife who is now dead. the doctor is accused forcing his wife to get cosmetic surgery

and drugging her and leaving her to die in a bathtub. he hired the mistress as a naney and not long after that he popped the question. dan schorr, former prosecutor. heathern, a trial attorney. dan, i will start with you. the doctor is accused killing the wife to cover up the affair so it would go on with the woman named gypsy. prosecutors want to call her back. what does that tell you how she has done on the stand so far? >> they want to end with the note of gyppy being on the stand so they remember the details of her prior testimony. accused after his wife died texting with gypsy during her funeral ands sexting with her next day and having her move in and creating fraudulent documents with the he and gypsy's wedding date be the wife's funeral date. even if not explicit again, they will bring it back when they heard it testify earlier. the prosecution wants to end

strong and this is probably the best way to do it. harris: heather from a defense point of view, i share with the audience because i follow you on twitter you think the prosecution hopes to finish strong with gypsy the mistress. do you think the defense is in trouble with her on the stand? >> you know, harris, first time she was on i don't think she did nearly what the prosecution hoped. i think they're feeling little bit desperate today. so far they put on another inmate from dr. macneil from state prison who testified that dr. macneil told him straight out he killed his wife. come to find out he had immunity and has a whole lot of credibility problems. i think the prosecution is feeling desperate. putting gypsy on they will go full force at her where before they held back and where they can tie the case up with a bow. harris: want to pay attention what subpoena haing on the screen. this is live look on the utah courtroom, this is man on the stand that is one of inmate witnesses that the prosecution is calling. dan, i'm curious, there is a

long list of these inmates who are set to testify. just to catch everybody up, the doctor did some time down in texas for fraud. that is how he crossed path with some of these convicted felons. what is your thought on some of them taking the stand? >> well this is the first one who actually says that macneil admitted to killing his wife. this inmate today testified that he saw macneil wearing different shoes than anybody else. he said how come you have different shoes than any other inmates. macneil said reportedly i get away with things. for instance i got away with killing my wife. whether that is true or not the jury has to decide. inmate testimony is skulls suspect. we know he got some beneficial treatment from authorities in return for the testimony testimony as heather alluded to he has a criminal record. unclear whether it might be persuasive but it might help the prosecution. harris: heather, as we've been listen in the trial during the commercial break the defense attorney attacking the guy's

character and staying away from what he considers facts. >> there is so much to attack. as a defense attorney this is fun because you get to go after the guy. one of the things on direct he said truthfulness is my strong suit. on cross-examination he sold drugs from fake prescriptions. rolexs he has stolen and sold. his credibility is really, really hurting. i don't think the prosecution will want to end with him which is why gypsy is so important. harris: before we go, dan, i want to get your thoughts calling dr. macneil to the stand. we understand that when the prosecution rests the defense says it has three more witnesses, it is possible among them, possible, we don't know, that the doctor could be one of them. do you call him? >> i would be shocked if he is called to the stand. he has a fraud conviction. so much strange behavior after his wife dies he will be cross-examined solely bit by bit. allegations he might have tampered with evidence. he might have faked performing cpr he could notwithstand the

cross-examination. i don't believe he will be called. harris: dan schorr, wearing two hats, what you do if you were the defense and i know what you do with the prosecution, you said you would tear him abart. good to see you both, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> some tiny tigers just 13 weeks old, they are getting a big test today at the national zoo. we'll tell you what these little guys are up to next.

big day in the national zoo because of brand new sumantra tiger cubs. they are 13 years old and have to take a swim test and have to pass it before they are allowed in the habitat. it is an important test for the cub because last month another cub drowned in the poll in the london zoo. you can watch them on the zoo's tieber cub cam. they make their public debut. >> he looked menacing.

whose job is it to teach the tigers to zim. >> i would leave it to mom if i were them. >> guys always pass on the woman. >> that's right. >> along with potty training and good it see you. thanks. >> america's news headquarters starts now. fox news alert. case of dejavu for the point person on obama care. welcome to hq. i am alisyn camerota. >> andim bill hemmer. we are watching this throw hours show. kathleen sebelius questioned. the senators were serious. >> i am accountable to the committee and american public for the system in place. >> it is inexcusable that the members of the committee were not told earlier. >> i want you to told account and burn their fingers and make them pay for not