it's safer to buy online. sometimes you need a person to tell you what tv to buy. that's what a live person does. >> what do you say? >> he talked so fast, i have no idea what he said. bear. >> that's a bull. >> we got to go. prepare to pay a lot more for it. hi, glad to have you. get ready for the health care sticker shock of shocks. according to a new report, companies are expecting workers to participate in the insurance plans because of obama care. and guess who's going to pay for that? i think i have a pretty good idea. exactly. you. the worker. the employee. you wanted it. >> you practiced this before the show. >> a little bit. the jeopardy thing was impromptu. here's the thing. we already saw this happening.

i have my own business. we grapple with this every single year. how to do this. we were promised -- everybody was promised this would change. obama care was going to change. we were going to bend the cost curve. this is sending it rocketing much higher. it's a disaster. >> the argument for it is a lot of people who didn't have insurance, they said, next year, i'm going to get penalized so i might as well sign up for my company plan. you would think more young people entering the plan would keep the costs down. but it's actually just the opposite in corporate america. it's just more of a burd be for them. >> it's more of a burden. you have young people who can stay on their parent's insurance well into their mid-20s. you will see as more people pile into employer-based programs, you will see higher premium, high deductibles, particularly for family care. that's where the costs will go up. democrats like to brag that the growth health care spending has slowed. to the lowest level in half a century. but we're still, nevertheless -- it's something that started

happening ten years ago. you're seeing a record cost for health care. almost $3 trillion this year. that, again, the increases will continue to skyrocket. in part because of this law. >> by the way, that was a very good way to put it. that was more the weak economy than anything else. >> right. >> we can argue the particulars. one of the things i noticed here is companies are setting us up for the next wallop. >> right. could you imagine if president obama ran on the truth of this stuff? just say he tried to sell it? listen, you're going to get thrown off your plan. you're going to pay more, you know, it's going to be, you know, this is -- >> we're going to subsidize 400% -- >> i mean, this is a big lie and it's coming apart. i tell you, part of me says just let it roll and let the worse happen. the other part of me says that's going to hurt this country really bad. >> what does that mean, fix it? is that what you're saying? i had tom delay on. he said, don't do anything to

help this. >> sometimes it's good just to flush it out. >> okay. adam. >> i think that's wishful thinking. i'll try to -- with your permission. to flush it out, that's just not going to happen. it's a nice thought on your part -- >> no, it's like, you know, napoleon coming in and invading russia. let the winter destroy his army. >> what did you say about napoleon? >> he invited russia -- >> adam's point, what was it? >> i'm going to try to talk about the health care costs, especially in corporate america. which is what the point is here. i mean, neil, it's funny, most of you would probably agree that one of the problems, the way health care's been paid for over the past generation is that people stopped taking responsibility for their costs, right, they said, oh, my company will pay for it. the company said, guess what, we want you to pay for it a little bit more. maybe you'll think about some of your wasteful spending or -- just running off to wherever -- >> that might be very -- if anyone had said at the outset,

to charles painter's point, this was going to come to pass, it would have never passed, would have never passed. >> by the way, if they were really concerned about costs, they would have done something with tort reform. >> well, i guess my point is this -- >> well, if you had health care -- >> -- is not what was promised or is pabi inpanning out here. a lot of companies are, charlie's point, going to start crunching the numbers and crunch some people out. they're doing it with retirees now. they're going to do with it more retirees in the future. whether private exchanges, public exchanges. just not on their company. >> there's no doubt about this, ultimately, more and more people will voluntarily leave the company plan, be kicked off the company plan -- >> what do you do with your >> letter about three weeks ago that our policy was going to be canceled -- >> who provides -- >> right, and we would be notified soon with the new rates. our policy as it exists right

now will be canceled -- >> because it doesn't meet the requirements or the -- >> right, right. >> so what are you going to do? >> i'm not sure. this is an issue -- >> your workers watch this show, they'd like to know. >> good thing they had a good year. >> really? >> you know what's good about this -- >> on that note -- >> what's good about this is before i had this conversation with them and they kind of didn't get it. why can't you pay for all of it? now people understand, at least workers understand just how much this eats into the bottom line -- >> that's a good point, give adam credit, that's what he's saying, to wake up -- >> you still have to pay, whether you take care of yourself or not, those are still the premiums. >> we're more aware of the costs. that would be a net positive, wouldn't it? >> people are aware of the costs in terms of taking personal responsibility. people who are sick pay less. people who are older pay less. it is the young and healthy. those people who take care of themselves are the ones who are going to pay more -- >> i don't like the way you're saying that. a thin beautiful person looking at me, lecturing, it's annoying.

>> i'm hungry right now. >> it's annoying. >> i'm hungry all the time. i go to the gym six days a week. >> fine. i pass the gym six days a week. i'm just telling you, i'm offended by the tone of those comments. >> if you're responsible for your own health and you take great pride and care in it, you could end up paying a lot more for your health care, neil. >> and that's fine -- >> but not -- >> not allow you to finish that, that's fine. >> the thing is not going to work at some point. public policy questions. republicans have to deal with this. do they bail it out? >> tom delay says you don't fix it, let it pass and burn. >> do what the russians did during the war. let napoleon invade and lebt the winter destroy him. >> it's going to be higher taxes, higher taxes -- >> the republicans are not going to -- >> what delay was saying, the former republican leader in the

house, why help this thing? if it's so bad, don't do anything to improve it. >> i think anybody -- >> -- is committing a crime against the -- >> if they don't help it, it will die faster. >> i'll tell you why. because it's the law of the land. >> all right, go ahead. >> because it's the law of the land -- >> it's a stupid law -- >> -- it's not in our nature -- >> -- what the law of the land is. it's a dumb law. it's not working. >> it is a law. >> it is a dumb law. >> you could improve our government -- >> let a dumb law -- >> -- not destroy our government -- >> i want to hear -- >> -- because people's health insurance has been canceled by their profiter -- >> you have to fix it, right? >> -- there are people left to hang out to dry -- >> so the time approaches -- >> they have to fix it to make sure these people -- these are people with catastrophic illnesses with no insurance at the end of the year. the administration needs to do something about that right now.

>> no, no, understand what i'm saying. what they seem to be saying is let this thing crash and burn. you're saying the risk in that is all these people who have been taken off their policies are in no-man's-land. >> you could, what, say not fix the health insurance website -- >> -- for treatment, i mean, that is a necessary -- >> i think that's exactly what -- >> we would be worst off than we were before -- >> the plan itself will keep blowing up. i don't think -- by the way, i don't think republicans are ever going to raise taxes. particularly the republican senate which is very likely. this thing will crash and burn. they should just let it go. >> if the republicans so-called try to fix it, it will be very similar to that scene in "dr. strangelove" where they jumped on the nuke -- because it would be nuts -- >> imagine trying to fix something that is horrible. i mean, what, make it less horrible. >> adam, can i make two points, please? one is -- i don't know if i'll remember the second one. i don't know about charles'

specific employees, but employees who choose to leave their employer's health plans, where will they go? to the exchanges. >> who will pay for it? >> to charlie's point, charlie, we always knew that certain people who weren't paying for health insurance were going to start paying for health insurance -- >> we didn't know all this other stuff -- >> we kind know -- >> we might have seen -- believe me, here on this very show, we talked about basic math and how the numbers didn't add up and how you couldn't get something for nothing. i love you like a brother. you know and i know that those who are championing this cause were not warning to the degree we're seeing everything falling into place right now. they just weren't. >> it hasn't gone as smoothly as we would like -- >> that's like the titanic hitting an iceberg. it's going to get a little cold. get a jacket. all right. when we come back, three years ago, lawmaker, getting an earful over the health care law on their summer vacation.

i have a feeling they're going to get something worse over their thanksgiving vacation. the gang is breaking it all down. but up next, do you remember this? >> what was happening is student loans were going through banks, banks were making millions of dollars, we said, why don't we give loans direct to the students? >> that worked out okay. turns out students might need more help. ston. cheers. and seeing as it's such a historic city, i'm sure they'll appreciate that geico's been saving people money for over 75 years. oh... dear, i've dropped my tea into the boston harbor. huhh... i guess this party's over. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. thnot at the rings.looking. i can feel them looking at my thick, flaky red skin. do i tell them it's psoriasis?

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live from america's news headquarters, i'm kelly wright. the u.s. is offering to help destroy some of the most lethal parts of syria's chemical weapons stockpile. an international organization claims the u.s. government would contribute destruction technology, most likely on a ship in the mediterranean sea. the weapons are to be removed from syria by december 31st. brand-new video of a u.s. war veteran detained there for more than a month now. the video shows 85-year-old

merrill newman apparently apologizing for alleged crimes during the korean war. the communist state is famous for coercing statements from its prisoners. we take you back now to "cavutto on business." remember, you are watching the most powerful name in news, fox news channel. all right. student loan debt rockets even higher. uncle sam raking it in. the government made $40 million off of the loans just this year. charles, you say the government ought to get out of this right now. >> they ought to. but $41 billion, are you kidding me? that's -- exxon mobil barely made that. apple made $41 billion. >> just the interest? >> it's the interest. it's amazing. president obama, he hinted, he winked, he suggested, hey, hook me up, put me back in the office, i'll get rid of this stuff. >> he really is a capitalist.

>> exactly. when it comes to their own pocket -- >> this is a social program. they're making money. >> this money goes to cut spending in education department. if we're going to be in this business, then we ought -- >> why are we in this business? >> i don't like the fact government -- >> did you get through school with college loans? >> no, i joined the air force. >> okay. maybe. you can't deny -- >> 7 million pell grants -- >> so you would rather the government lose money on these loans? >> i'd rather the government not be in the business at all. >> but they're committed to it -- >> you're talking to g.i. joe here -- >> americans thinking about not going to college because of how expensive it is -- >> that's the point. >> this is just like fannie and freddie getting housing -- >> -- giving kids loans -- >> the fact is when you're in -- when the government's in it and given all this money, why can't

you go to a state school? why do you need a loan to go to yale? >> but you don't make a 180 retreat and stop it. >> why do you need all that stuff going out to people? why does some kid need a $30,000, $40,000 loan for one year at yale to study fine arts. >> that's why i didn't go to ja yale. i said no. >> i went to pace university. >> adam, what do you make of this? >> i think the comparison with housing is actually an inapt one. i think the government should be in the business of either making student loans or insuring or guaranteeing or helping or subsidizing student loans. >> do they make this much money on it though? >> over the decades, we created this culture where we told people, you have to own your own home or somehow you're doing something wrong. >> that was your liberal friends who pushed it. you specifically did that. >> bill clinton and andrew cuomo. >> all right, let him answer.

>> this has been across administrations. all i'm saying, i happen to agree, i think we've gone overboard. we should ratchet it back. certainly not eliminate it. we should get control of it. we should say to students, go to college if college is the right choice for you. buy a home if you can afford a home. >> the money the government's making off of this. it does -- to charles' point, just continue this beastly behavior. you get a bigger loan. the tuition goes up even more. one feeds the other. how do you stop that cycle? at the same time, you want to help kids get an opportunity to go to college, even though they might be too poor to afford it. >> that turns into the democrats argument of the government should be in the business of providing, like, no cost loans to people. i don't know how -- it's either you're going to try and make money off of it and subsidize education spending in this country or you're going to get out of the business of it. >> just cut them off?

>> i don't believe the government in the biggest way should be in the it's about of business of providing -- let me finish my sentence. it's thanksgiving. >> they can give you any amount of money -- >> let her finish. >> thank you. don't think the government should be in the business of providing all students with loans. i think ultimately the cost of college -- >> so you'd have a talent means test? really? >> look, there's something -- >> here's the thing though -- >> community college -- >> no, we talk about this, even with the obama care thing. >> you took no loans? back to you. no loans? >> when i got out of the air force, i worked two jobs -- >> at the type, would you have been against loans? >> i never took out loans. >> i understand that. you're not saying there's something evil about those who do? >> what about competition? if the government went back to the business of guaranteeing this thing but making sure the

private sector competed, this is like obama care. it's ratcheting up the expense of going to the college exponentially. >> why not individual responsibility? go to a college you can afford. if you can't -- no, help finish, let me finish, please. it's thanksgiving. >> don't do that on harvard. >> don't get me started. >> if you can afford to go -- listen, could have gone to columbia university, university of missouri. i'm glad i went to university of missouri. that's what i could afford. >> i agree with him. >> me too. >> why that next bank deposit could have you really eat up. hi honey, did you get e toaster cozy? yep. got all the cozies. [ grandma ] with n fedex one rate, i could ll a box and ship it r one flat rate. so i kn untilt was full.

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next deposit could cost you? what america's top bank might do to force your bank to hike fees. we report. you're going to want to hide.

i don't think this is the fed's fault. this is dodd/frank. it actually helps banks a lot. >> if they drop it, if you can

borrow cheaply, whatever. this is dodd/frank. so many embedded costs into that regulatory structure, with capital requirements and everything else. by the way, the banks -- >> you say the reform we had since the end of the depression is actually prompting banks to hike fees? >> i can't wait to see adam deny this. the banks said this right at the start. we were going to stop free check. we're going to raise fees, we're going to -- >> they never said -- >> oh, no, they told reporters this all the time. >> i don't think it will happen. i don't think the federal reserve to charles' point is going to cut the interest rate paid on bank reserves. i don't think banks will do this. >> the banks need to get money from somewhere. >> they need to finance loans. number one. that is one of their biggest moneymakers. number two, you sell other services to people who have money on deposit so they can easily make up what they might lose.

>> adam, that's what the banks have to do here. in other words if the returns are so paltry for your savings anyway. well, i'm just going to take my money. the banks have to be astute enough to know they have to keep that money. >> i agree. rates are probably going up, not done. should they charge, reasonable people -- look, in the unlikely event they were to charge, reasonable people would say, okay, i'll pay it. i'd rather have it there where it's safe. >> i'm just saying -- sorry about that. anyway, i couldn't help but get that in. the bigger point i'm making, this reform law is hurting. >> did he say he wrote a book about it? >> yes, i wrote two, by the way. one was a "new york times"

best-seller. my bigger point is, banks are not lending money. the reason why -- >> in the end are they going to pay that fee? >> yes. >> i don't think it will get charged in the first place. >> i agree with you. i disagree with you. mr. best-seller. miss super ratings. >> i never applied to columbia because it was too expensive. >> because you were applying to the country of colombia. >> i tell people, go to a school you can afford. >> my thanks. up next, you think you missed out on this year's big stock run-up? a number? scotade. ron: i'm never alone with scottrade. i can always call or stop by my local office. they're nearby and ready to help. so when i have questions, i can talk to someone who knows exactly how i trade. because i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. that's why i'm with scottrade. announcer: ranked highest in investor satisfaction with self-directed services by j.d. power and associates.

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all right. strong stocks ready for a strong finish the year. what do you have? >> they continue to underestimate this. tesla has a giant for the upside. but there is a lot of risk to it. >> adam? >> my pick is for ben who can't be with us. sdy, the s&p dividend paying e.t.f. people who don't have charles' stock-picking brilliance need to invest in the whole

markable. >> very few people. which is why we never recommend individual stocks. something like that. >> something like that. >> something like that. >> pick a stock that nobody else does. >> we love you wherever you are. "cost of freedom" continues right now on fox. remember this? >> stay out of my business. stay out of my healthcare. >> how in the world are we going to pay for it? >> more government, higher cost, and less choice. >> so what makes you think the government could run a new healthcare program? >> incredible. that was before they passed the law, so now that their worst fears are being realized with the disastrous roll-out is obamacare the threat to individual freedom that protesters warnedded it would be? hi, everybody. i'm david asman. welcome to "forbes on fox." go in