l k -- facebook.com/the kelly file. this is "the kelly file." thank you for watching. >> look at this place. a big public park. it's a big space where any one can come. no one person owns it. every one shares it. it feels good just like the children's song makes you feel good about sharing. >> sharing, sharing, it can be fun. >> when i ask, what's better public or private? >> most people say, public. >> i would say they would charge you for looking. >> public wouldn't you say or we wouldn't be here right now. >> super markets are private, so

are churches but both are more accessible to the public than say the public schools. also public sometimes isn't very nice. >> this is the image i have of public toilets. in my public park towns. including this one used to look gross, too. garage evbage avenue i -- every. >> it means neglect. why is this park now so nice? it is under new management. private management. >> it is interesting. >> that goes against what people expect. >> this is a privately managed park. >> really? >> i noticed last week when i was here they have awesome toilets. >> you own something you take

care of it. when no one owns it nobody takes care of it. nobody washes a rental car. >> people destroy other things like most of the rain forest. american setltlers killed most f the people. >> when everyone owns a resource no one cares about it no one takes care of it. it is ca that is our show tonig. >> now the m >> we like the idea of sharing, communal property. but it does lead to the tralg de of the commons. nasty things happen when everyone holds something. i first heard that phrase in the story about a shepherd that lives in a grassy area they call the common since all of the

shepards share the grass they grab as much of it as possible. they bring many more sheep to graze. soon all of the grass was gone. the sheep died. the shepherds had nothing. they divided the commons and the mart parcels. we should think about this today on thanksgiving. school whirn were taught it's a day of sharing. pilgrims and indians share the fruits of the harvest. i assume most of the teachers don't know thanks to sharing. the pilgrim almost start. they know the real thanksgiving story. >> it is an important lesson we learn from the pilgrims which is

when they first came to the country they thought it would be nice to share. they had a big area they farmed. >> the corporation ordered them. >> we will work on this together and difficult sri it up equally. the first winter was harsh. they got sick. they also didn't grow much food. they didn't grow a bun of food for two reasons. if they p didn't work together there's a tendency to shrek. on the other end where it grew they poached. they picked the corn early thinking i will get a whole ear of corn if i pick it and keep it in the middle of the night. >> get a bigger share overall as a result. prou duck tivity was atrocious. >> governor bradford wrote in his diary what thus they do so

they might not languish in misery? is what did they de do? >> they had the right kind of incentives saying if you produce it you get to keep it. you work hard you produce something, you are lazy you doesn don't get much to keep. >> they should set him for every particular. >> this simple change took them from near foundation to let's share. >> i don't think they were celebrating thanksgiving because they realize capitalism work and community property is a failure. i am sure they shared with the indians because they were good people to get along with. the real lesson is what is the roll of incentives.

hard work and stewardship take care of the land and use it productively. it is not really a surprise. >> the incentives are there to protect it. we want equality. we want government to take care of the important things. it is my family and yours. in a family situation we all know each other. it is i don't mind working for the other person if it's something i love and care about. in general home life flow is community. >> where people interact with each other constantly. we want social norms and make

sure people do the right thing. that that is where it struggles and typically fails. they understood that they have this natural urge to take the socialism with your family. you say what can be better than that? let's take this law here and make it wider. i don't think it's teern neither destroying the rain forest. >> the rain forest is public property. it's on your hand they capture the benefit for yourself in the form of more wood. if you are in a public land can't control it is not yours to claim and take care of the next person comes in cuts down the tree that you decided to bypass and they capture it. the rain forest gets butchered.

>> the government owned forest. they are more forest fires on the government owned forest. privately owned forest people are more incentive to take care of their woods. >> to not cut it down early. that's the biggest problem with common property. we see it with the pilgrims they pick it early. if you keep a small wish rather than throwing it back if it is not your pond. if it is an ocean someone else may throw it. if it is your p pond let it grow to the size that it should grow. if it is publically owned you are worried about the other poacher coming in and taking it. >> i can understand how fish farming private ownership of a fish would work in some inland area. >> you can't really own the property.

you can own the fish potentially with electronics and surveillance. the only way to solve that problem with oceans is with the tuna. they have the pen and fish farm in the ocean and if they are not free ranged tuna they are caged in. it is kind of a big cage. they get the natural exercise that makes the fish healthier and tastier that is one way technology is helping convert the public area to something private. >> it comes from the fact that there is no incentive to the owner of the road has the only incentive to maximize the productivity. we all get stuck in traffic and complain a lot. >> what about the animals, what should we do with that. we are on thanksgiving there is no turkey shortage. >> some animals are scarce some

animals are plentiful. we worry about some animals going stinks. if you wanted to save an animal would you encourage people don't eat it. if you make a profit from eating it that creates the incentive. if you privatize ownership they take care of it and grow them. as a result there are plenty of turkeys and chickens and other animals are squares because there's no incentive to take care of them. >> humans and hawks eat chicken. the more hawks the fewer chickens the more humans the more chickens. >> he understood this nature read and more auction they can complete the population. this we get numerous more chickens. that is the power of this.

>> there is a profit to be made from growing them and taking care of them and making them healthy and eating them. if we made it illegal to sell chickens we would be in trouble. >> coming up, these manuals a-- animals are endangered, too. what's the best way to save them? kill them. that's right, kill them. [ paper rustles, outdoor sounds ] ♪ [ male announcer ] laura's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. medicare open enrollment.ttack, be sureof year again.ur doctor time to compare plans and costs. you don't have to make changes. buit never hurts to see if u can find bettoverage, save money, or both.

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♪ john: look at the buffalo >> look at those buffalo, rome. 30 million of them once roamed in america. everyone owns them. indians and white settlers kept hunting them until they were nearly ex stinth. the buffalo herd went from 30 million to a thousand. they may come back all because now people own them. brian yoblanski is here to help explain what happened? when the bison got to about 1,000 there were cattle ranchers who were enter paren nearly enough to figure out the bison were worth more alive than dead at that point. they went out to the great plains and gathered the remnants of what was left and grew them

into the heards th herd that le the bison's come back. >> they protected thaem for their own profit. >> they poufound a way to make bison bay. they sold bison to circuses, to zoos and public preserves: >> before that at first there weren't enough indians to whilsted them they were doing okay. and the white settlers couldn't get enough to kill or endanger. >> right after the civil war when the transcontinental railroad was built you could get hunters into the plane and bison back to the market in the east and overseas. that's when the real tragedy occurred. >> some people shot them for support. >> it was wanton waist. they were shooting them for fun. >> now we have saved the bison. what about the elephant in

africa? >> some of the same concepts to save the bison has been used in zimbabwe. they have villagers in zimbabwe that helped save them. prior to that you had communal lands in zimbabwe. >> the government saying don't kill the elephants. >> the villaineagers were killig them and elephants were going through and another wildlife was running off the livestock. >> poachers came they would look the other way? they would go ahead and kill them. >> they would look the other way. then what happened is villagers were allowed to start getting proceed from trophy hunts and safari tourism that came from there. the wildlife became an asset. they hired their own game wardens. now the wildlife was a benefit to the villagers. as a result the elephant population also doubled during a period of 13 years.

>> what do you know about this you are with property and environment research center, perks. >> which is in montana. you study areas were river is vat property can help protect animals. >> private ownership is the betts incentive to ckonsz vatio. >> mostf of the buffalo is owne by private ranchers there are some in one state park one has ruined up. >> they are actually treating their bison most like private ranchers are treating them. they are making bison's hey. they once a year for 45 years they have had huge roundup where they bring in 1500 bison and tourists come from all over the world pay money to watch these bison get herded in an old wild west fashion with cowboys and cow girls. the bison come sweeping down the plains the earth shakes they get moved into corals and we eat bison burgers afterwards.

the point is the park is making money from the tourism of bison and bp a month later they auction off a portion of that bison to private ranchers and they are making money that way. all of that money goes back into custer state park to pay for operations of the park. the bison are paying their own way. >> more benefit from profit. thank you brian yoblons kischinkischin -- ki. >> it made indianer poor and private property rich. ♪ [ male announcer ] this december, experience the gift of true artistry and some of the best offers of the year at the lexus december to remember sales event. thiss the pursuit of perfection. -wow! -that feels wow! [ male announcer ] oral-b deep sweep, featuring three cleaning zones that remove up to 100% more plaque

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♪ john: have you ever been to an indian reservation in temecula release sought serious poverty and alcoholism and drug abuse. something about indians that makes them lazy or irresponsible . when india's own their own land they do about as well as other americans. poverty.s. one of the things that happenedb is they have been legislated over the l economy by the feder governments both tin the united states and canada. >> they have been taking care of

you. sounds like the best deal. >> by taking care of us that i means providing social welfare programs. the only way to break the cycle of poverty is by the recognition that every other canadian in american takes for granted that is real property rights. >> in canada as in much of the u.s. reserves were owned by the government. >> yes. >> sewo the indian has a piece paper that says this is my lot. >> underlying that is the fact that the federal government ownd the land. >> you can't borrow against it. >> you can't borrow you can't get a mortgage. you can't be bonded.ca there is nothing you have that will allow you to be able to go to the bank on your own withouto the minister cosigning that loan. >> let's bring another guest from perc. you find indianians do much better when they own their own land? >> yes, john. i first got interested in this

subject in 1976 when i visited a member of the flat head indian riz vation. while visiting his house i note how well off he was. he was not in poverty. i asked how do you explain this? i will never forget him leaning across the table resting his chin on his hand and elbow in saying, i own this place. that was my first introduction to the fact that many at reservations in the united states have fee sim tell land privately owned land like you and i open our houses.. but the indians that have privately owned land do much much debtor. >> the statistics are just astounding. i have done a lot ofe gathering of those data. they show that fee simple lands

are anywhere from 4roductive th held in trust. as many said these indians who t have their land under the trustee ship of the federal government can't borrow against them, they are really looked into the poverty cycle as a result. >> more group is taken care of by the indians and no group in america has done worse. >> it fundamentally changed we have to recognize collective n ownership of the tribe or the band or free the imagination of individual entrepreneur. m it went back many mel lillen yad were successful in 92. >> you found that that indians had a form of pop rert rights

before white settlers came here and messed it up. >> before contact with whites indians were aware of market trading and property rights. some indians own the salmon streams. they manage those streams so they let the larger go up to spawn and even those streams have larger salmon than the streams held in commons owned be everyone and hence managed by no one. >> the clan not individual indian but clan would opwn a stream they would have more salmon. >> that goesor back to what superior management over a sen true sin tourow w re -- sen tocentur. >> we could learn from what the native americans are did to

their resources. >> you can see the private rop pert difference bys driving er through some indian land. >> it is fascinating to drive through a reds vation in the ce west. iro go through the crow reservation and when you would come to a fence line on one side is the over grazing a few straun kn -- scrawny battle and maybe not a very political house.t right next door you would see cultivated fields, irrigation systems beautiful barn, home anu so on. you don't even need to look at property records to know that the productive one is held inro private and the other one held in common in trust. the difference. >> you can see it but it is

fascinating to booigoogle the reservation. >> not much development very few farms.n here's one that has private property rights. >> you can see the same thing on mannings reserves where they have managed to develop an industrial park creating jobs and wealth and at least gettingt one foot up the ladder out of poverty. >> i will give you the last word on that. >> first nations in tribes in the driver's seat. the governments in both countries failed the only way that can be resolved granting ub the right to own our own land.k thank you. coming up, we return to my local park. nice?s it so so many parks are a mess.?

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♪ john: now, i want to introduce you to one of the most impressive people i know. i first met in maybe 15 years ago, one of those lunches. ideas about solving poverty. i go to lunch is like that

because it bugs me that america is so rich when most of the world's p >> the world hasn't figured out a way to give them what they gave us the power to prosper. so i go to there i am sceptical but there hits the institute for liberty and democracy a think tank based in peru. he starts pulling the pictures out on top of each other much like this. he went on to explain and i will let you explain this. what do these picks tours show. they build their homes it is haphazard and disorganize the. they p can't get the credit. somebody has to recognize there is legal recognition.

legal recognition means property. when you have property you know you have mailing addresses and when you make a deal with someone you can be identified it is your address. first thing your name second thing where do you live. until property is defined law they can't get into the kind of deals or division of labor which is coop raeration with other pee to specialize and create wealth. that is what makes you woety ea. you don't have to milk a cow eerie day or look your land every day. you don't have to build your own house. you can stick to a tv program or do this part of a blackberry and the hallmark puts it together. these guys can't. you have to do their whole building take care of it and they can't specialize. the day that they get titles the day that the businesses in their homes the sowing machines the cotton gins whatever it is they got there the car repair shop

they can start expanding start using scales. >> they need to be recognized by local authorities who shay this is yours. >> they need to work within the la you. >> but do the places have laws? >> that's right. >> they take a risk they work a deal with the guy on the first floor and build their house on the second floor? >> that's right. probably the guy on the first floor who has the guts to squat and make a deal with somebody from government who decided to look the other way has an invisible property right. it is not very different from when you americans started going west all of the way to california like for example the california gold rush. the land didn't be long to them. the country didn't be long to them it was mexico. you went in there you put 800 mining claims 3 million americans why cokeep on shootin each other. in 1956 in the beginning of the 20th century. that brought in banks and you

created prosperity. >> california got rich. what is the difference? >> you americans at that time and they stopped moving from the east coast to the west coast you don't have a right to be there and congress came around and said yes they do. they didn't have deeds in america. they worked out their own generally accepted rights to property. >> so fwh certain areas in the united states they had tomahawk rights those areas where you shaved off part of a tree probably somebody else shaved part of the same tree they had. >> in some cases where they grew corn for example it grew from here to through that established the right from here to there. these were called corn rights.

this was an improvement on the land because you worked it. >> chain gnaw is still developing a traffic rut. >> much of the country side the past prevailed and the land is owned collectively. >> the whole notion of property rights has been pretty alien. mark said it in the 19th century property is set. >> compare the country side to cities like shanghai. >> i visited shanghai about 30 years ago. none of these buildings existed at this time. it is incredible what happens if you change the rules of the game. >> what should the rules of the gaug game be? >> it has to say and recognize who really owns what. because how you relate to the

assets you have determines how you relate to the rest of the world. we work on paper and plastic. if you don't have what you own in paper and plastic you can't play the game. >> the idea of a d protecting property seems simple but it is very powerful. all of this commerce between total strangers it wouldn't happen otherwise. it applies to more than skyscrapers and factories. thoenl work because of deed like paper work that we trust because we have rules of law. >> what i am trying today is roughly 1,000 contracts that represents 40,000 head of cattle. i never see this battle. i have never been outside chicago to the west to see where these around males are. >> in the united states and western europe your doctors go to the market and work for you.

in developing countries and former soviet union the majority of people have to make their arguments. they have to make land and houses the same way as they do in the rest of the world. if they just had rule of law they would be as rich as me? >> bringing in the you rule of awe. you are trying it in iraq you ain't getting there. in afghanistan you are not getting there. >> other countries now invite you to go to -- you have gone to russia, libya. you met with qaddafi.

thi they must get they are doing something wrong. >> the people who brought in the property rights in the united states were along the 18th and 19th centuries. they see it is ease yesser. what we didn't realize is the fact that you can determine a piece of land went from thehere there you can do it with a movie script or an idea or an invention. once there was certainty of what owns what we started seeing that people trusted the bap per more than the object itself. if he found through the law ways of understanding it and recognizing it. on top of that you build all of the leverage or something. you wouldn't have gotten where you are today. >> property rights gave us the power to procesper.

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♪ john: all over america there are parks that are filthy, dangerou >> the government is saying what can we do? budget cuts took our numbemoney.

we don't have enough for maintenance or security. they say do we let the parks rot? does it become havens from drug dealers prostitution or violent crime. this park was known for that. now it is nice. it is bryant park a few blocks from the studio. what changed it ? this man changed it. he privatized the park. now he wants to do the same thing to the boston common. that's a terrible idea to shirley crystal. how did you save bryant park? >> you have to make the park great if it is going to attract private funding. security, sanitation, horticulture, great lighting. they will draw people in all hours because the best safety for park is not a tough security force but a lot of people in it. >> private funding you got the businesses around the park to cough up the money.

>> there were four principles for the businesses around the park real estate owners, concession, events and sponsorships and since 1996 we have not asked the city government for a single dollar. >> sounds good to me. the park looks great. what's wrong? >> well the park looks good but it could be better and it could be public. >> what's wrong with sucking the money from private businesses? >> they can go into private pockets. >> so what? >> it is very good to use for dan to use a public land for running a private business a rent a car. there's commercial revenue he thinks all of that money. i was in the park i walked around did a little survey. i asked 20 people if they thought the money was going to the city. they all think it is.

>> so what if it is going to mars the park is nice. >> because we have the money leftover and the park could be just as good. >> it is certainly true that the park is very commercial these days. we were just there. there's lots of buying and selling going on. the day i was there there must have been 100 food selling booths. on the other hand the public seems fine with that. >> it was rag tag that sfrnt look that nice it would be another story. >> they are making the city money. >> if everybody would feel good about it they would know where the money is going. >> that is delightful people think it is a city run park. that means it is public. nobody viewed it as privatized.

every dollar earned by concessions and sponsorships and events in bryant park goes right directly into the park. all of the money is earned in those ways. the way we have private skating is sponsorship from the city. >> boston common was a common. suffered the tragedy of the commons. now it is a park. managed by government for about 400 years. badly managed this is the result. your plan? >> well, the last thing we want to do is prooifr ties boston common. boston is not new york. it is not as commercial a district. we are in the position of coming up with ways to greatly augment the city's budget which everyone involved feels is inadequate. >> get the people around the

park to pay most of the money. >> private companies, central park model is a little tougher to -- >> the central park model for clarity i am on the board of the charity that helps manage it. i joined people because i saw what they did. here are some before and after pictures when government managed central park it was barren and dangerous. now it is wonderful. and what the model is, i give money, people who live around there just give money. it is not a business arrangement. you are doing mixture of that in boston. >> correct. it would be a mixture. you can get a lot of money from private sector companies from sponsorships where they don't demand the board you give them a little small plaque of attribution. >> what's wrong with that? >> we already have the tress and now we are going to get the corporation the best of both

worlds. the point isn't what the size of the billboard is, the problem is we don't need to do this and teach the next generation the only way to get public realm is charity ward of rich people. we pay taxes, that's the government's job. they say not a mod-- this is no model. >> we have to hold our government accountable. >> it is working in central park and new york city park. why not try it in boston? >> it is working for your corporations and billionaires. >> it is for the public. >> it is not. th money bags get to decide who goes there and who the desirables and who are the

undesirables. primarily homeless people city are always the first thing on the list. >> you want homeless people in the park? >> if we don't make a system that accommodates people where they live it has to be in the public realm. unless you can surth something better. >> we have the same number of people in the park today than we had when it was viewed by everyone as horrible. what we didn't have then we have now is 4,000 other people. the ratio of not homeless to homeless is 2,000 to 15. any female walking in who mate be -- doesn't look like president homeless hang out to me. they are welcomed into bryant park and the same # 13 are there every day.

>> that's another major thing. when people get mad at their governments they have to be able to take it to the streets. or the park. it's purpose is public space. it is true of other parks in boston and i am sure here also was to stop the rallies and all of that. >> it would have killed the grant. >> whait's more important democratic free speech or the grass. you can replace the grass. they can't protest on the streets? >> this is where they would get legitimacy. >> it is government that said no to them not corporations. >> it is giving their way over to corporations.

we have to fix the government. >> good luck with that. dan i will give you the last word. >> the parks department rights the permanent. >> it will always be the case. and any time it is a politician wants to dem crate we have had obnoxious people on both sides. we had a racist preacher gay plied language was horrible. both permitted under the agency they are the agent of the city. >> thank you dan and shirley. i wish i could say good luck to you but i i should say good luck to him. here is the guy who talked about how great the privately run bryant park is. >> you just said public is better.

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♪ john: ♪ hn: >> isn't that sweet. i would like to wish you happy starvation day. that's what it would be called if they kept to the property rules they started with. when they first settled in plymouth they were told share everything share the work and the harvest. the contract says it was to be common. settlers were to receive the necessary arias. there was to be no individual property. the labor was to be organized by the different cape abilities of the settlers. sounds like karls marks to each according to his ant and each according to his needs. that sounds fair. they nearly starved. it is a tragedy of the common. when people can get the same stuff by, woulding less they

will. plymouth settlers face illness. the harvest was meager for two years there was famine. they dropped it. every man for his own particulars assigned a parcel of land. the results were dramatic. it made all hands very industrious. instead of famine, plenty. be thankful. if more realized private property allows us to have wealth. create wealth. some people understood private ownership could be good things. >> private or public? >> private. >> i think they run things a lot better than the government dud. >> facilities upkeeps are

better. >> others had to have in -- >> got me there. >> private managers delivered when government didn't. private rproperty does. they connect effort to reward. they protect things. that's what protected the elephants in zimbabwe buffalo to the west. it made america the richest country in the history of the world. they have no deed to the property. you are stuck in poverty. you know in your home or your store escaped then you can borrow and take risks and invest. that gives you the power to prosper. that's the lost lesson of thanksgiving. have a nice weekend and good night.

night. >> get ticket information at john stossel.com. tonight on huckabee. >> everybody is allowed to hang their minds. you have to explain why. >> charles kraut hammer on politics and what really matters. >> elegant and beautiful in life. just -- >> it's a small part of the universe he created. >> the last man to walk on the moon. gene joins the governor. plus -- >> the furthest thing to come out of my mouth is negative. everything is bad. >> al trips to the holy land ar