little guy. thanks for watching "special report." shannon bream. good night from washington. see you tonight at 9 p.m. eastern for the kelly file but now greta goes "on the record." today is boxing day but it seems like the president and congress has been boxing all year. >> president obama needs to take responsibility and needs to tell the truth. >> the house republicans in particular don't get to demand ransom in exchange for doing their jobs. >> senior white house staff this morning said that the president would rather default on our debt than to sit down and negotiate. >> no we are not going to negotiate. >> we have a president who stopped over the line. >> let's stop the threats and stop the political posturing. >> hello, everyone, i'm dana perino in for greta van susteren. almost a third of the americans think that president obama will go down in history as one of the nation's worst presidents. meanwhile, congress' approval rating is at an all-time low and everyone is pointing fingers at everyone

else like 3rd graders. in 2014 will they finally grow up and start fixing these problems or is it too late to win back americans' trust. former senior advisor to ronald reagan pat buchanon joins us. i wanted you to give perspective to people because as you observed washington and worked in washington over the years. some people feel and say this is the worst they have ever seen washington. what is is your take on that? >> well, i think washington has been worse at times. a truman mccarthy era back in the 1950s. watergate era was very very bad. i do think this is a very tough time, dana. the reason it is ideological and political differences between the two parties are so severe and so stark that one party wants to move in one direction. the other move in the other direction. and so you have got an institutionalized war going on in the congress of the united states from which i don't see any relief in the coming year. >> so is it your opinion that the president obama

won't really even have to reach across the aisle to republicans in 2014 because he has got of course, the midterm elections coming up and maybe we have to wait until maybe after those elections in the last two years that he finally tries to figure out how he is going to work with some of the republicans in congress? >> i think the president is going to go to war with congress. and, if i were advising him as a liberal democrat, i might advise him to do just that. they have got a number of issues coming up, dana, where i think the president feet are in concrete ideologically and politically. on the debt ceiling he is not going to cave, in i don't think. he realizes that the country is with him on a modified amnesty bill. he will try to split the republicans on that. he will try to restore the unemployment benefits, saying, you know, we can't let these people hang out there when times are just getting good for other people. and i think in -- he has got the minimum wage, which i think is a very popular issue for him to raise it to 10 an hour and really drive the republicans when he gets back to town.

so i would look for a battle to emerge right there in january. >> what is your take on the healthcare? i know that obviously that was something that's been in every presidential election, has been an issue. but, in this year, going into 2014, what you have seen in the last three months, do you think the republicans are in poll position and can they hold that position through next november? >> republicans think they are riding secretariot. they may well be. it's not going to get any better. some aspects could get worse. insurance companies are going to start coming up short. i think medicaid is going to explode there are people who are going to lose their doctor. people are going to pay higher premiums. i think if those employer mandates go into effect at the end of the year. other folks are going to find out that they lost their health insurance. so i think the republicans are relying on that heavily. and that's why i think they

may be reluctant to do battle on some of these other issues where the president has got a popular stand like the minimum wage. >> there is another battle is coming up earlier -- early in next year, which is going to be over the debt ceiling again. would you advise republicans to try to use that moment, that event as leverage to try to change something in the healthcare bill or do you think that president obama won't even go there so they have got to figure out another way ahead? >> they are not going to put anything in that healthcare bill that the president does not want. because it's not going to go through. and the democrats in the senate would block it anyhow. and i think the republicans better watch setting themselves up for another route which occurred in that budget battle. now, i have always been a believer, you know, that the congress does have the power of the purse and has a right not to fund something. but when it comes to paying your debts, and whether we should pay what we have already incurred, or whether we should renege on the

debts or not pay some until later, i think that's an argument where politically it's a fairly easy one for the president and you are aware of what pulpit he has got for the president to win. so i think the republicans ought to think this through, this battle through before they enter into it, because it could be another one of those battles where after, you know, a week or so, they start deciding maybe we ought to back down. >> on the issue of immigration, every day i seem to read something new. that it's going to move forward, that it's not. what is your take on that? if you were president obama, would you consider trying to push that through and put the republicans in a box on it? >> if i were obama, what i would do is, look, he is not going to get amnesty for 12 million people. what i would do is split it and go for basically for am amnesty and citizenship, for the so-called dreamers, the ones who came here as children, four, five, six years old get that through

and get halt the deportations of all of these folks. let's get something that looks reasonable and looks like a compromise. i think that would split the republican party right in half. i think there is a lot of folks in the house, republican house, even in the leadership who are saying we have got to get the immigration issue behind us. it's killing us with hispanics. we have got 27% of them last time out. we have got to do something. that will be a real divisive issue for republicans. so if i were obama, that's what i would do. i wouldn't go whole hog. >> so then if i could put you in the other seat, if you were advising republicans what would you tell them to do on immigration? >> as you know, this was an issue with me very much in the 1990s the illegal immigration against george bush sr. and i think the republicans should stand firm. i think they should say, look, illegal immigrants are illegal immigrants and we ought to enforce the law and we don't want to deal with this right now. i would say no. >> let me ask you one last question, sir, before i let you go. >> okay. >> in a lot of these polls,

there is a frustration expressed about washington. and some -- many people when they are asked what do they want out of washington, they say we just want them to get along and to get things done. do you think that's really true that people want to see more get done in washington? >> i think there is a great middle in america, which doesn't understand or doesn't participate in ideological politics and political issues the way we do or the way fox news does or msmbc does. an enormous middle in there that just says, in effect, why can't they all get along? and i think that group is frustrated with what's going on. it is increasingly dissatisfied. it thinks the congress is failing. but there are other folks out there, the tea party republicans and conservative republicans on one side. tough ideological liberals on the other who want to move in the direction of increasing social security. and they think they are doing the right thing. so, i don't see any change here, dana.

i think we are going to have more of the same only more so. >> all right. sir. thank you so much for joining us. >> delighted. and is president obama giving houdini a run for his money? the next guest says the president has mastered the art of escape. is he going to tell you why next. you can hash it out with us. do you think it's too late for obama to win back americans' trust? post or tweet use #greta. o. hoo-hoo hoo. sir... i'll get it together i promise... heeheehee. jimmy: ronny, how happy are folks who save hundreds of dollars switching to geico? ronny:i'd say happier than the pillsbury doughboy on his way to a baking convention. get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more.

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to evade provisions or delay provisions of the law he opposed or that was passed, you know, the prior administration. but this is is a law that he staked everything on that democrats lost the house of congress on. and all year, basically, it's been a story of waivers and delays and reinterpretations to avoid the political pain of the worst of this law. >> you write in your column today this is not just

government by dictate it is government by embarrass dictate. >> if an administration is making an announcement at 9:00 p.m. at night. by definition that is not a good announcement. there have been key things that they have announced at night. the marshall suspension of the individual mandated for people who are cancelled and find the obamacare policies too expensive to buy, that was announced at 9:00 p.m. that was a huge deal. and there are other changes they have basically have made no effort to broadcast whatsoever. so, this is noun a railroad. >> that's an interesting point because in some ways it may be help protect them politically for from some bad headlines, i talked to some people this week. young woman i talk to at the park every day. she was so confused by what the state of the law was. maybe they actually are one of the reasons they are possibly seeing declining poll numbers because people are confused and, therefore, they think there is a tremendous amount of incompetence going on when it comes to the obamacare law. >> yeah, it's added to the

sense of chaos here. you are exactly right. but every single day the imperative has been just to get beyond the latest problem. and initially it's the employer mandate was going to be big problem. so they they a year. then it was all these cancellations so you have the president announcing a fix that turns out mostly to be bogus. and then you have all the people who have cancellations because the fix didn't work, and for them you are suspending the individual mandate. i think a big debate in the year coming up will be over the individual mandate which will probably now be politically unsustainable. you can't suspend it for part of the population and then arbitrarily apply it to the rest of the people. and red state democrats are obviously very nervous about it. and this is the single most unpopular part of a very unpopular law. >> you wrote last week for national review that one of the things he read into the announcement about the fine being alleviated for individuals who had lost their health insurance plans and couldn't get them before january 1st, he thinks

that there might be some more knowledge within the administration about what is happening in terms of enrollment and that they are trying to set themselves up for possibly the unraveling of the individual mandate without any help from congress. >> the point was making in that post is that all of this has been a black box. the administration is being as secretive as possible about all this. so you never really know what they are thinking or what's underneath the rock. only they know. but, the way they have been acting and these various delays suggested something very ugly under that rock. now, they may have gotten a wave of sign up right here at the ends, but it's you still don't know whether the population is going to be big enough to make the issue polls work. look state by state suggest there is certain states where this law is going to be stillborn not just going to have enough people in the state level insurance pool to make it work.

>> what recourse, aside from the midterm elections turnout, what recourse do americans have maybe through their representatives in congress, if they are concerned about the executive branch making decisions without consulting or even telling congress in advance that they are changing key parts of the law as they try to roll it out? >> yeah. that's a huge issue. because it's so perverse where the president seems to owe pose changes being made by congress. i don't think republicans have a good answer really about what to do about the lawlessness and ultimately the answer is a big wave come next november. that will be the biggest message from the american people if there is a wave of revolt in the country that you see in the house and senate races. >> all right, rich, thank you so much. >> thanks, dana. and now to central

florida where police officers are stepping in for santa claus. the officers spreading holiday cheer to some surprise drivers. you see the drivers are getting pulled over for speeding, but the cops aren't giving them speeding tickets. they are giving them lottery tickets instead. thank you so much. >> merry christmas. >> although we are giving the education part stop and make them aware. he we are adding excitement to holiday for some lucky soul. >> i guess i should get pulled over more often in the holidays. >> speeders aren't totally off the hook. they gave them warnings along with scratch off tickets. you be the judge. is giving speeders lottery tickets a good way to celebrate holiday cheer or will it create more speeding. go to gretawire.com and vote in our poll. still away, governor chris christie and hillary clinton heading for a big battle?

that's coming up. small business owners desperately trying to survive obamacare. you will hear from a husband-wife team who fear obamacare could break their business. that's next. hey, we got our cards, honey! great.

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now to the impact of obamacare on small businesses. a maryland home heating oil company has a long history of doing business but obamacare is making its future very uncertain. griff jenkins spoke with the companies' owner. >> i would like to consider myself part of that like american dream. i started here as an assistant bookkeeper. i'm going to say about 25 years ago. and i worked my way up the ranks and was able to fortunate enough to become president and then as well purchase into the company. >> are you concerned that the american dream is not

there forever your kids? >> well, the american dream is what turning into a nightmare. >> the energy sources is a home heating oil business that's been here in the baltimore area since 1924. the owners, a husband and wife team, bob and trish say that they are feeling the impact of obama in a big way. >> we don't know especially with the healthcare law, of course, what direction we are going to go from day-to-day or month to month or year-to-year. and when we renew our healthcare insurance, there is going to be some changes and, of course, we have had some changes this year, which have had dramatic effect on our business. >> we just renewed as of november 1st, and i didn't really believe it was going to have that much of an impact on us. because i felt like with maryland, we are already mandated in the state of maryland to cover like 60 some mandates that were already there that i figured the aca would have already covered. but when i got my renewal, it was a big shock. we had an increase of 35%. my broker told me that

because of obamacare coming into effect as of january 1, the insurance companies were readjusting to cover all of the mandates that were going to be covered under the aca as well as there is taxes like 4.2% of taxes built into that for renewals before the end of the year. approximately 20 of my employees on the plan have chosen to get insurance elsewhere with wive's plans or insurance themselves with ther those 20 folks i was paying $150,000 a year it's now 2 oo3,000 with the renewal. >> what kind of impact does that have on your business? >> in small businesses we handle it in at least one of three ways, one we absorb the cost, two, we actually have to change our margin or maybe three we don't hire that employee that we need. we have to deal with what we have. either way, in any of those scenarios the consumer ends up paying for it. >> your costs are going up significantly, how concerned are you that it might cut into your business and your

ability to provide that comfort to people? >> we're very concerned. >> it's tough enough in small business to even succeed in the margins that you do have. and to actually put that kind of burden on a small company like owfers, that could make our break us. that could actually be the straw that break this camel's back. >> coming up, governor chris christie and former secretary of state hillary clinton. are we about to see them duke it out? our political panel is here next. and the violent knockout game strikes again. but wait until you hear why the latest suspect says he did it and why the feds are getting involved. the latest on that coming up. [ "i'm only human" plays ] huma. even when weross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why, at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement

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now get ready to speed read your way through the news. first, to pakistan. in a new video, a u.s. contractor kidnapped by al qaeda militants begs for president obama to negotiate his release.

warren weinstein was kidnapped in pakistan more than two years ago. in a video, he says he feels abandoned and forgotten by the obama administration. the state department says it is working to authenticate the video and it is calling for weinstein's release. >> now to california. and news in the natalee holloway case. an appeals court ruling in favor of talk show host dr. phil mcgraw in a defamation suit over his coverage of the case. the suit was filed by the kalpoe brothers. they claim dr. phil's show showed them as guilty. 18-year-old natalee holloway holloway disappeared during a graduation trip to aruba. her body was never found and no one has been charged in her death. now to the news that is outraging people across the u.s. two of the nation's biggest package shippers under fire for not making christmas deliveries on time. u.p.s. and fedex now scrambling to deliver boxes that missed the holiday deadline. shippers blaming delay on

overload from online sales and bad weather. now to more bad weather moving through parts of the nation still battling back from a weekend ice storm. the ice storm left hundreds of thousands without power from michigan to maine and now more snow is falling across maine and parts of michigan. and frigid temperatures are expected to keep ice from melting off power lines. and speaking of cold and ice. dozens of explorers are stranded on board a ship in the an artic sea. the ice making it impossible for the ship to move. and blizzard conditions making the wait for help even worse for the ship's 74 passengers. they are marooned in a remote area about 1700 miles south of australia. >> it's 2013 and as you can see, we are actually in a blizzard at the moment. but the low pressure system, expedition vessel. and we have wind speeds on average of 50-kilometers an hour. reaching in excess of 70-kilometers an hour. the vessel hasn't moved for the last two days. and we are surrounded by.

we just can't get through. everyone is safe. the vessel is perfectly safe. but we can't make a passage forward. in 24 hours' time, we are expecting the chinese ice breaker. snow tracker to arrive and break open the path to get us all home. everyone is keeping really well. and if anyone is going to be concerned. please check our expedition web site where we are loading up details all the time. otherwise, though, look forward to seeing you all soon. >> remarkable that man. okay. that was tonight's speed read. and as the nation is gearing up for a christie vs. clinton battle in 2016. according to the fox news poll, new jersey governor chris christie and former secretary of state hillary clinton are the top choices for their party's pration. and joining us from washington, our political panel abc news political director rick klein, "the washington post" national political correspondent karen and the hill's cammeron joseph. this sort of feels like

guest hosting with friends. i'm glad that you could join me tonight. karen, let me start with you. polls like this, you have covered several presidential elections. too early, of course, to be prickive. does it tell us anything about the upcoming race? >> i think all they really tell you at this point is whose name people recognize when they they a lunch of-i a listing of names in a poll. chris christie in particular, i think there is probably nothing that you can say about him at this point that you couldn't have said about rudy giuliani in 2007. and hillary clinton, you know, we have seen this before. you know, if you want to be a political writer and keep yourself humble go back and read your old stories. i was reading mine from september of 2007 about how her lead was double digits and just insurmountable. >> and, rick, you actually think that in this poll where democrats say that they would choose hillary clinton at 68%, that's just incredible numbers, joe biden at 12% and elizabeth warren and andrew cuomo in

single digits, you think that this is a big warning sign for the democrats and for hillary clinton. why do you think that? >> you tell me hot frontrunner is in 2013 and that's the person who is going to have the biggest target on his or her back in 2014, 2015 and of course 2016. hillary clinton has been the frontrunner before. like karen i wrote those same stories 8 years ago. the thing right now is that she is so pro-himmively the frontrunner that someone has to emerge as the anti-hillary clinton. that doesn't mean that person will be successful. it does mean she is going to take a lot of incoming. you are starting so see early warning shots. some people on the left challenger. they don't have a person yet. that person will exist. that probably isn't on that poll. but a year from now will have a much better sense of who it is that emerging as potential alternative to hillary. >> we'll put that in a greta time volt and see who emerges and bring you back then. i want to ask you about the

republicans because we flashed up the poll there that there is actually no republican that is really too much in the lead here. you have got all the names that are out there and they are all about the same bush, cruz, ryan, paul, walker and santorum. do you think this tells them anything about the republican race and especially somebody like a jeb bush who might be on the fence about running? >> i think it's there is no clear leader and there is is a real deep divide between the more establishment republicans, kind of the christie folks and jeb bush folks and some of the folks looking to ted cruz doing well in the poll. a real fracturing in the poll. a big part going to determine who does well in the g.o.p. side is who doesn't run. a lot of these guys are jockeying for space. when things start thinning out. if jeb bush doesn't run that would help chris christie. >> karen, one of the things just because of the calendar, might feel early just about to turn the calendar to 2014, this election is not until 2016, but these candidates have to raise a ton of money. do you think you are going to start to he see some of these candidates try to

break out and make a move in early 2014? >> i think you are going to see a the lo of them doing a lot of campaigning for other candidates in 2014. what you do that then is build up a network. you build up a whole bunch of people who owe you big favors. and i think you are going to see a lot of these candidates really trying to curry favor with the big outside organizations that really bring the big money into campaign. let's face it hillary clinton has got a big edge there. because all of the big -- othe big democratic super superr pacs and outside organizations are already pretty much aligned with her. >> rick, when you look at the republicans and as you have reported on and you read the stories all about republican infighting, how much of an impact do you think that has early on in a race like this? >> it opens up the field to a lot of different folks. i think there is going to be a couple different brackets in the republican primary. you have some tea party favorites who battle it out. you will have more pragmatic kind of governors battling

it out o. chris christie a huge 2014 and scott walker poised for a 2014. you have battle out for constituencies to try to beat the viability threshold and plussability threshold. there is room for a lot of them. you you mention the money. i think there is a enough money out there particularly with the rise of super pacs and potential for any outside group to come in and basically prop up a candidacy. i think you could see a couple of people go the distance and kind of emerge as the favorites in their different sectors of the parties. i don't think this gets settled this year or after. >> cammeron stay with us after the break. they are going to come back. cammeron, i want to ask you you about the polls that show today the republicans are in the lead when it goes into the 2014 elections, not that big of a advise in a midterm election in the president's second term. how predictive is the 2016 race if republicans are able to win back power in the senate in 2014? >> i don't think it says anything about 2016.

i think it's way too early even to be determining exactly where we are going to be a year from now, much less three years from now. you saw republicans have a banner year in 2010. they were certain they were going to win come 2012. they got [ sniffles, coughs ] shhhh!

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>> quarterback john kitna won't be keeping news new paycheck for himself. for the win, tweeting new cowboys qb will donate $53,000 game check to the high school where he worked. he has been teaching math and coaching football in tacoma, washington since retiring from the dallas cowboys in 2011. the cowboys now signing

kitna out of retirement to help in the championship game against the philadelphia eagles. ♪ if i was your boyfriend ♪ never let you go ♪ keep you on my arm, girl ♪ you never be alone. >> and is justin bieber walking away from his music career? rumors swirling around a series of tweets from the pop star, bieber posting my beloved believers i'm officially retiring and then the media talks a lot about me and makes up lies and want me to fail. i'm never leaving you being a belieber is a lifestyle. be kind loving to each other, forgive each other as god forgave us through christ. merry christmas, i'm here forever. so officially retiring and here forever are different things, justin, but will he be hanging up his microphone for good or just pulling a political stunt? i guess we have to wait and see. and in an nba coach sending a harsh message to his team's fans. lakers coach telling discouraged fans to find

another team to root for. well, lakers fans did not take kindly to the suggestion. many slamming the coach on twitter over the comment. one fan tweeting my you have it backwards, you go find a new team. i hope santa brought you coal and if he didn't have laker fan's respects before good luck to him getting that now. calling himself an idiot and making a mistake. santa paying a visit to governor hailey. posting this picture on facebook with the caption, our family had a wonderful christmas together. i must have been good, santa gave me a beretta px 4 storm. now it's your turn to hash it out with us. use #greta on all your tweets and posts. coming up, one lawmaker says duck "duck dynasty" phil robertson shoulding hailed as a hero and he is taking

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alabama lawmaker is calling robertson a hero and state senator jerry fielding is even introducing a resolution to make robertson's hero status official. meantime, jesse jackson is calling phil robertson's comments more offensive than rosa parks bus driver jackson saying quote at least the bus driver who ordered her to surrender her sight to a white house person was following state law. robertson's statements were uttered freely and without cover of the law within a context of what he believed to be white privilege. we are back with our panel. rick, let me start with you. it seemed over the weekend that the "duck dynasty" sort of controversy was going away but then jesse jackson made these comments and stirred it all up again. what's your view from washington? >> this is quickly become one of those issues where you can't lose depending on

your political side in either side feels like they can get a lot of mileage out of this. if you are on the left and you can make a lot of hay out of this and jesse jackson a little late to the party in come out and making these comments bringing up the racial angle in addition to the comments about homosexuality. and then on the other side to have a conservative lawmaker come out and hail him as a hero. again, this is something that is speaking to each side's base right now. it's interesting how this has just illuminated this divide in the country that people on both sides would feel so strongly about mr. robertson's comments again. this is just a reality star that we haven't heard of a couple of years ago. not like he has a national platform. suddenly you have people on both sides who feel like they can get a lot of political mime lage out of him. >> did you find disappointing something like this issue could all of a sudden become a red state vs. blue state issue so quickly? >> i do. again, why are we still even a week later talking about something that a reality tv star said and, you know, just to take the jesse

jackson comment, comparing him to the bus driver was w. rosa parks, the bus driver was not the issue there. the issue with rosa parks was the set of laws and the set of social practices that made segregation legal. this is not a situation like this. this is one guy who is, you know, on the opposite side of history in a lot of ways and social trends, you know, making some controversial comments. >> cammeron, if you -- as anyone looking at the interview that phil robertson did with gq could walk away with different interpretations. i don't know what's in his mind and heart. i don't know specifically thinking that he has white privilege over others. but do you think that this might have some sort of legs politically for anybody that is trying to run? >> well, i don't know if this will have legs politically. it's a really good fundraising tool and i have seen politicians in both campaigns, politicians come out say i stand with or

stand against this guy. it's a good touch stone cultural to have you write $100 check or two click. floating and gone pretty soon. one guy who has a small platform right now clearly is very popular with a certain segment of the population and very unpopular with others. you are not trying to win elections by going with the "duck dynasty" guy. >> rick, do you see this coming back, after the new year and congress comes back or do you think this alabama lawmaker is just an outlier? >> i think he might get legs behind it and people get behind it i be surprised if will is a single election determined because of comments as far as "duck dynasty" said. i happily come back on and eat words later if i am wrong about that. i do think this is clearly this is a show that has broad reach. and this is an individual that has got some renown and he has made comments and not backing down from them. i think just to see the split reaction has been interesting just to the way our society reality to these

things. it did quickly become an issue where the right saw it as a free speech issue and the left saw it as hate speech. i think that's really the extent of it i think you will see politicians try to grab on from end trails from the end of this story, but i don't think ultimately it's going to be determining much. >> let me ask karen the last question. this is just about the way we all communicate now. the way we all get information and how quickly something can flair up and become a major twitter outrage war. how important is that for politicians who are thinking about running to keep in mind for 2014 and even going into 2016? >> i think it's crucial. and, of course, you are the professional on this side. but i just think that these days, anything can start a brush fire. and twitter, it's the internet, it's somebody with a reality tv show. you just never know where it's going to come from. that's why i don't think this has legs. >> all right. panel. thank you so much. coming up, another terrifying knockout game attack. but you won't believe whyect sad

it. the latest on the shocking crime and our legal panel is here to talk about it.

now it is time to show you what we are watching. it's that time of year again, time for the annual camel beauty contest it happens every year at a festival in the united arab emirates. what makes the camel a winner? judges look for big heads, broad cheeks and big whiskers. it also features a camel auction. surf is up for santa. actually 125 santas, they hit the waves in cocoa beach, florida, the

tradition started in 2007 and grown every year. the town mayor calling it the largest surfing santa event on the planet. and we imagine he is right. it's probably warmer than hanging ten at the north pole. and on christmas, 1776, george washington crossed the delaware. the original crossing brought more than 2,000 soldiers across the river. some historians say it was a turning point in the revolution. this year's reenactment was successful, too. hundreds watched as the impersonators made it across. and finally, never before seen video of royal baby prince george. this year's video christmas message from the queen revealing behind the scenes footage from prince george's christening day. you can see duchess kate gently pulling the baby's hand from his mouth while posing for a portrait. prince william holds his son for the photos, too. that is what we are watching tonight. and come up, the latest knockout game attack. find out why the suspect says he did it and why he is facing hate crime charges.

our panel is here next. [ woman 3 ] to come together even when we're apart. [ male announcer ] in stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy and more, swanson makes holiday dishes delicious. gravy and more, ick with innovation. stick with power. stick with technology. get the new flexcare platinum from philips sonicare and save now. philips sonicare.

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a shocking knockout game attack in texas. now the suspect is charged with a federal hate crime. today the justice department announcing the charges against conrad barrett. he is accused of punching and breaking the jaw of a 79-year-old black man and recording the knockout on video. prosecutors say he was hoping to get national media

attention it. joining us is our legal panel in washington defense lawyers bernie grim and ted williams and in philadelphia former prosecutor fred. thank you gentlemen for joining us. ted, if i can start with you. you think that the justice department made the right call on this one? >> yes, i do. i think that in this instance, this white guy decided that he wanted to knock someone out and he specifically said that the plan was to see if he could hit a black person and would it be nationally televised i went one step further and found the perfect african-american suspect. he also during the course used the "n" word. there may be those that would say the requisite intent for the national hate crime is not there but i do believe that this would be an excellent test case. what a coward to take a -- to hit a 79-year-old black

man, knock him unconscious, break two portions of his jaw. this is just outrageous. >> there is no doubt it's a more phiing crime. but let me ask you bernie because you think that eric holder, the attorney general of the united states might have overstepped here in this case. >> yeah. i mean this is over the top. i agree with ted it. the guy is a bigot. prison is not going to change that i wish it would. but this is really the department of justice, just saber rattling, why? because they want the country to think that they are on the front edge of this knockout phenomena. it's a waste of time. it's a waste of money. who is involved in this case? the u.s. attorney's office, department of justice, civil rights division. the fbi, and the dea. an absolute utter waste of money. why? because katy, texas, i'm sure, has seen a crime like this before. and they can prosecute it and put this guy in jail. we don't need all this sort of pomp and circumstance at the department of justice engaging. in one more point. let's see if the department of justice is connected to reality. the agent in charge said this: it is unimaginable in

this day and age that one could be drawn to violently attack another based on the color of their skin. this is the agent in charge and i'm asking that he be drug-tested. how in the world you can actually think that? it's scary. >> fred, let's get your thoughts on this. do you think the justice department made the right call or the wrong call? >> well, you know, i'm in the middle. this guy barrett who is a defendant in this case, is he a terrible terrible guy. he bashes a 79-year-old african-american in the back of head. as far as i'm concerned can, he can stay in prison so long that his final parole hearing is in front of star lee command. i have a bigger issue. we have had a ton of these knockout cases. part of your role as prosecutors and part of the role of the justice department is to send a message to the public that safe and that the justice department and the law applies to everyone. i think the justice department if they are going to prosecute this case, it's a terrible case and i'm not even sure they have jurisdiction. but with that aside for a second, why is this the first knockout case that the doj has decided to render an

indictment on? >> ted can you answer that. >> sure. i think that. >> if the races were reversed, would we see federal hate crime legislation filed by the justice department? >> well, i would hope so, if, in fact, the evidence was sufficient to show what we have here. we have a white guy who specifically say that he is looking for an african-american to knock out on national tv not as that question markenned i agree with fred whether the requisite intent for the hate crime is there but s. but i do believe this is going to be a test case. >> the requisite is there not to interrupted you. the law does not protect being stupid. this guy take as self-y of himself bashing himself in the head. ufned the statute the feds have to certify that there is no jurisdiction in texas or that texas specifically prosecute the case or that this case is necessary to be prosecuted by the justice department to ensure justice.

>> all right. panel. i have got to stop it there. thank you so much for being with us. i will see you again tomorrow on the five. and later here on greta. join us again for "on the record" tomorrow night right here at 7 p.m. eastern. good night. the o'reilly factor is on. tonight. >> more than half of the counties on the exchanges, middle class families are finding themselves priced out of coverage. >> obamacare sticker shock how hidden fees and new taxes are bringing some americans to their fees. krauthammer with analysis. >> hallelujah, christmas miracle. deck the halls with boughs of holy because i'm coming through with a christmas tree. >> plus, the "duck dynasty" saga continues as the a&e network cashes in on america's most controversial family with a christmas day marathon. we have a report. >> how you tell a 6-year-old she is not going to get her present for christmas? >> also,