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tv   Stossel  FOX News  January 12, 2014 7:00pm-8:01pm PST

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dea >> do you agree that fathers should not be doing his daughter's hair. he thinks it's perilous. my husband does my daughter's hair. send me a tweet at megyn kelly. have a great weekend. >> the wealth gap is getting worse. >> this is the defining challenge of our time. >> the super rich are getting richer. >> the other 99 percent of workers are left to suffer. >> really? you suffer because these people probably make more than you? >> she is the biggest earning female athlete in the entire world. >> you suffer because ceo's make more than you. >> does it bother you mosome people have more than others? >> everybody should get higher income. bigger taxes for rich people. >> every major city which is senator is run by democrats. >> equality verses liberty.
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that is our show tonight. and now, john stossel. >> if people are tree some will be more successful than others. maybe they are smart error work harder or they are luckyer. in a global economy that success gets magnified. michael jordan made good money playing basketball but he makes more money because he can sell these t-shirts in china. because of the free market some people have the ability to make more off their talents. what is result is that? inequality. look at this video on fire on the internet viewed 13 million times. >> here's the actual distribution of wealth in america. the poorest americans don't even register. they are down to pocket change.
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the top 2-5 percent are actually off the chart at this scale. and the top 1 hers this guy, well his stack of money stretches 10 times higher than we can show. the average worker needs to work more than a month to earn what the ceo makes in one hour. >> that level of inequality is wrong say many people especially people on the left like bob beckel. >> you said the free market handles it all. the free market has been in place and equality has gotten worse and worse. you thie ceo makes 400 times wht the average worker at the plant makes. if he wasn't making 400 times that would be more money to distribute in wages. >> maybe the workers wouldn't have a job if the ceo wasn't -- >> the ceo is worth 400 times
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more than the guy on the line. >> that's what the market says. >> that's a problem with the market. what we are talking about is corporations particularly whether it be wal-mart, mcdonalds down the list, the top echelon of the corporate world makes an exceedingly larger amount of money than their workers do and that is flat wrong. >> why? it is not like a zero sum game. fill gates made -- bill gates makes a lot of money that hurts microsoft? >> microsoft paid him very good wage and living wablg. you think wal-mart tas the living wage? >> yeah. >> very few do. they work two or three jobs. it has been successful company by ripping off people like exposing small businesses on main street and doing businesses with china and building inferior
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products. >> they shouldn't do business with china? >> if they would produce toys not full of led it would be fine. >> those of us who appreciate free markets resist to squeeze this down in england in 1990 you were a lord in the british parliament. margaret thatcher responsing to your argument. >> (inaudible) >> i agree with her, if you didn't get it i would rather have a big gap with all of us up than all of us together. >> well let's not talk about this in terms of the very poor and very wealthy. they have a lot of programs to
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help them the poor. with food stamps and other things that you don't agree with. i am talking about the working class in america. the free market gave reasonable inequality if you would in the 50's and 60s and 70s. now it is blown out of proportion: >> how would y >> how would you fix it? raise the minimum wageme. president obama wants to do these things. >> you can't make it at 7.25 an hour. it is crazy. i think 15 an hour is fair minimum wage. there wasn't hasn't been a study that says increasing the minute m mum wage is bad. it is not right. you have to show me definitive evidence that raising the minimum wage costs people jobs. it's not.
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>> isn't it logical if something costs more you will get less of it. if the worker costs you $10 an hour you are going to hire fewer. >> are you going to hire fewer? you still have to flip the burgers. >> maybe you won't expand. maybe you will buy a machine. >> nobody can live on $10 an hour. they work 40, 60, 80 hours a week. you cannot expect them to work on that ind couldn't of income particularly when the corporate ceo is making as they said in at that film 500, 600 times their money they make in a month than he makes in an hour. do you think any ceo is worth that kind of money? >> i am grossed out by it but if the market says they are somebody is voluntarily baying th -- paying them. >> they are usually given by the ceo. >> i think beckel is making more money than the next guy so i will pay you a lot of money. individual liberty is the most important thing.
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if we are free there will be inequality. the important thing is p oh tunity. we still have that in america. people born poor don't necessarily stay poor. most graduate and move up. here is part of the video made by the institute for humane studies. >> if we look at households in 1987 and follow them 75 percent moved up. about 42 percent of households who were there in 1987 have fallen to a lower point by 1986. >> there's a lot of truth to that. in a goody con me people can pull themselves out of a bad economy. bill clinton were the a lot of countries poor people rose out of poverty. >> capital i am. capitalism.
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>>er with talking about inequality between those at the top who have rigged the system to make more money. that's not premarket capitalism that's cronyism. >> krohn kneecap tallism is wrong. we agree. i feel most americans agree with bob and with that other bob, robert riesh who has a new movie out called "inequality for all." >> of all developed nations the united states has the most unequal distribution of income. >> he became u.s. secretary of labor and made this movie. >> i had to protect people from the people who would eat them up economical economically. >> the left say they are standing up for the little guy. i turned to libertarian philosophy professor tee bore mccain. aren't they? >> no way. i was under communism myself in
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my early years. >> you grew up in hungary. >> they are not helping the little guy of the that is a myth. they talk a big game, but the left does nothing but place ultimately people into concentration camps because nobody will comply with their stup bid vision. >> but neither bob another president obama is putting people in concentration camps. >> not yet. united these people who are supposed to be getting on board willingly but they don't get on board willingly. just like with observe care. -- obamacare. >> income inequality hurts nobody unless the inequality came about through theft or tloo -- >> is it not at all gross that more people have more -- >> not any more gross than the fact that kobe bryant throws
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basketballs much better than some of the people on the street. no worse than the fact that the kenyan they're monday runners win every year over and over and over again. this is the way the world goes. any time you try to upset it with hue han meddling you encounter the public choice problem namely you put the matter in the hands of people who are just as imperfect as anybody else. this whole idea that you can get some people up there who said things right, manage everything, it is what i have called the fatal concern. >> they can bring them together and lift all of the votes. >> they talk a good case but they do not deliver anything nearly as good as they sound. parted of the talk is the moral
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outrage of inequality. you said in england there's a guy who will stop the rich from joining the privilege. >> jumped in the water when the henley regatta was going on because he thought it was an elitist contest. so what if it was. golf is elitist, tennis is i elitist. >> he would ban those, too. >> cabbies should take rich images on long detours. >> the rich get richer at the expense of the poor. >> that's false. while the richest prosper the other 99 percent are left to suffer. >> the rich are richer. >> and the poor are poorer. >> zero come gain somebody wins somebody loses. they are transferred. >> that's a mistake a lot of
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people make>> you smell that? fresh baked pyrite from the oven. would you like a piece? which of you gets a big bees. >> the rich take a big piece the rest of us have less. in a free society. >> it is not a zero sum game. >> makers get rich by baking more pies. >> bill gates bakes a lot of new pies. >> adam smith made himself famous by showing that the economy is not a zero sub gain. at least they left the gain through exchange. >> once they win the trade it is voluntary. >> these people tend to think they know better. if they were at the helm everything would work out fine. it never does. they know that they are smarter than anybody else. they are the guys at harvard and
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kennedy school of government. whoever challenges them the prestigious go miles and miles. it is all a crock. >> if you had to choose between equality and liberty? >> it is no contest. >> thank you. if you would like to keep this conversation going go on facebook or twitter. use the hash tag class warfare let's people know what you think. coming up how much money does any one need. americans hate rich businessmen, but i notice they rarely hate celebrities on the red carpet who are just as rich. >> do you mind that they make millions of dollars? >> no, it hasn't occurred to me i just like watching them. start the engine... and shift through all eight speeds of a transmission connected to more standard horsepower than its german competitors. and that is the moment that driving the lexus gs will shift your perception. this is the pursuit of perfection.
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>> marina sharapova. she is the biggest earning female athlete in the entire world. 23 million in endorsements. >> ybet you didn't make that? does it bother you she took home so much more? she is not even the best tennis player. she raijs 4th. she is people accept that.
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they accept that movie stars singers make millions, too. >> do you mind that they make millions of dollars? >> no it didn't occur to me. i don't mind. >> they have a talent they use it. >> does it bother you tiger woods made 7 million a year. >> but what about business executives. does it bother you that they make more than workers? >> they should make muf money they should be stable. >> why does it bother when business people are rich but doesn't when beyonce or tiger woods are rich. >> entertainment is about emotions. we have been in school plays tried to hit curve balls and failed doing it. we understand how the things they do are extreme and make us so happy we get that.
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>> we don't get what the businessman does. >> we say the businessman with the white shirt and tie making all of that money. ideal does he make more than any one else. he is showing up 9-5 like i am. you don't get the same connection you might have to an athlete or celebrity. >> bob beckel argued when they take that much money they are taking it away from the workers because they could bay them more. >> that's what i call the pie view or pinata true. we think candy goes out one kid gets the canned tee we need to give it to everyone else. when we try to that being given away from other people we are changing the incentive. people in the economy are making money because they are doing something productive. baseball players make a lot of money because they do askisomet a lot of other people can't do. >> but the ceo? >> you are not head of just a local company in your town you are head of a company that is
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worldwi worldwide. the mistakes you make have vast consequences there are other companies who want you to help their companies. if you are worth 100 million a year there are a lot of people out there stockholders willing to get you to work for their company so they can make that money. >> the position of ben and jerry, ben and jerry who owns the ice cream company. i have chunky monkey. they said on their web site during the occupy wall street demonstration inequality that exists between classes in our country is immoral. a few years before ben and injujerry said they would pay their executives no more than five times than they paid their lowest paid worker. they end up paying 14 times more continue to work out they had to hire someone else to pay them even more. these leftists they are as clueless in their ideas --
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that's a bad example. >> understanding certain policies we adopt good intentions aren't enough. we understand how people behave and decide. i don't have to do something productive to succeed i am going to take other people they adopt methods for doing that instead of doing productive things. that's something we need to avoid. >> people love the sports heros, actresses, actors robert downey jr. 75 million he made. beyonce 53 million. jennifer lawrence 26 million. the athletes golf, tennis, basketball, basketball, football, football, golf, soccer well distributed making millions and millions of dollars and people love them. >> one thing about the athlete's salary i think it's funny they don't realize by capping their salaries you are ensuring the
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billionaire owners are getting more money. it is focusing on where this wealth comes from. >> the nba and nfl have salary caps. >> right. if you want to look at how balanced the plate is. >> it's not enentertainment value to have everybody even. i don't care if apple makes the best telephone. >> baseball is far more competitive than it used to be they have no salary cap. basketball is more competitive than football. in baseball you don't have a dynasty like the patriots on denver broncos or dallas cowboys. you think about the yankees but we have a lot of smaller teams doing well. it's not a cure-all. there are teams that are trying to make money always find a way around it. >> coming up, what is fair and why are we just talking about money? is it fair that he's good
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looking? is it fair that he was 6 foot 4? it would seem fair to me i was the shortest kid in middle school so i got picked on. should government intervene? when it comes to inequality government inequality. government subsidizes rich people now, people like movie stars in malibu. that's next. because government subsidizes ♪ [ male announcer ] to truck guys, the truck is everything.
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john: there is >> there is one thing i would like tour government to do, stop giving stuff to rich people. walter williams senior economic writer steven moore proposed something they called a millionaire subsidy elimination act. steve, what do you mean millionaire subsidy act? >> there's 100 to 200 billion a year of your money and my money that goes to people who make
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over a million dollars or companies who have profits over 100 million. we said why don't we cap the government subsidies to people who make less than a million dollars a year. to billionaires are willy need money from the government? >> no, but what are they? they are called subsidies for the rich and famous. like what? >> let me start with easy ones. when you think about social security and medicare ush talking about benefits that go to seniors that have low income. yefr whoun with any one who is the age of 65 from bill gates to warren buffet. do they need a check every month from the federal government. >> at least those go to everybody. >> when you are running $800 billion a year can you afford to send bill gates a check. >> the others on the list go to
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the wealthy. >> these this is a classic amp example. the wheat subsidies the corn subsidies. people can get the benefits if you have an income up to 150,000 dollars. the farmers divide up their farms among the sisters and wives so five farms each get 950,000 dollars. you have some farms when you combine them are getting 5, $10 million. >> another scam is the blood insurance. >> are you really a beneficiary to that program? did you send the check back? >> i built on the edge of an ocean because i was guaranteed this it's insane. they brag about the flood insurance handout. >> protect your home with flood insurance. >> the flood insurance program provide valuable protection for
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5.5 million home owners. >> when she said that it was 19 billion in the red now it is 30 billion in the red. people say but i didn't plan the hurricane. i didn't know the river was going to flood. we need to help these people. what's wrong with that? >> first of all who are the people? people like you, there are people richer than you are. people who are building beach front properties $10 million homes in miami beach. >> movie star homes derek jeter's mansion in florida, the kennedy family. >> the question is why should taxpayers pay to rebuild their homes. this is a moral hazard problem. we encourage people to over build on river beds or beach front properties because guess what? if there's a big storm like sandy the taxpayers rush in to
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pay for the rebuilding of that house. >> i do, too. i apologize. i don't have a how is that is insured by the government. >> the government. offers subsidies to rich people. >> they offer clean energy like windmills. this is a wind farm and you get a subsidy if you install solar panels in your house. >> if you want to invest in solar energy in your home we have tax credits in there. >> when you look at homes in america that have solar paneling there are people in beverly hills and people in some of the richest areas with the biggest homes. here again we have a subsidy that mostly goes to millionaires and billionaires. >> the windmills we showed the main investor was ge. >> at ge you probably saw the story that ge paid no corporate
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income tax. you are wondering how can one of american's most profitable companies pay no corporate income tax. they take advantage of a lot of the corporate loopholes like the solar and wind subsidies. >> one is a tax credit. if you don't make 40,000 a year you don't really benefit. >> that's the point. if we got rid of all of these we would save? >> 100 to 200 billion a year. >> life would be more fair. >> it would be more fair. >> coming up making incomes more equal. >> most americans say raise the minimum wage. that's what these protestors want. they say they are grandmothers. welcome back. how is everything? there's nothing like being your own boss! and my customers are really liking your flat rate shipping.
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john: >> unions and fast food workers have been holding off to raise the minimum wage protest. >> i need to get a little support from my family. >> i want her to be able to support her family. 66 percent of americans want the minimum wage raised. now 7.25 per hour. these protestors say it should be $15 an hour. some say it ought to be more. >> for minimum wage let's go $20. let's make it 20 across the board then companies can thrive from there. >> for the moment president obama wants $10. $10.10. it is hard to live on # 7.25 an hour so we would oppose a small raise? this cruel young woman does terry shekel the distributor for forbes. >> take out the knife john, thank.
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>> he worrich works for demo. >> that's a good start. i think $10 is a great start. we know this because washington state has a minimum wage on the order of $10. their economy is no worse than the other states that have a he loer minimum wage. i think it is great. >> what's wrong with that? >> that's washington state. we need to let states, we need to let companies decide what wage is correct. >> you wrote an article in foebs that made sense to me. it's good to raise the wage to 10 why not 100 bucks an hour. >> exactly. that's the point. at its very core i think the minimum wage is distorting the marketplace. it is dictating -- it is government dictating business what is the correct wage. that is a dangerous and slip lee loep. why not raise that to $100. >> why not? >> if some people had their aespecially corporations why not go to the bottom where it is
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zero. >> no minimum wage. >> have people volunteer. >> why not if people want to. >> people do. >> we don't want -- we want a robust middle class. in odder oh make it happen you have to pay $10 on the minimum wage. >> why is it efficiency shoes? if government can make everybody better off why are you so cheap at 10 bucks? >> because 100 bucks is an extreme which we know wouldn't necessarily work. >> bob beckel says there are no studies that show it would raise unemployment. i think if i might have to pay that much i might automate or hire less workers. >> there's a cost when you raise the minimum wage. there's ast could. the cost is whether that cost is worth the benefit. >> we are going about whether the minimum wage will cost jobs. we don't think it will at all.
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but what we do know if you paid folks more they need to consume there's a multiplier effect. they will be purchasers and consumers of products that are necessary. studies have shown if you pay people a minimum wage that would add 15 billion to the economy for people who spend unnecessary -- >> you are going to be hiking the price of good. >> you deny that a higher minimum wage will take away hsoe jobs? >> maybe not take jobs. how do we know costco is paying a fair wage. >> that is ant tech dote. >> that is one business. >> the federal reserve in california irvine did a study the previous study they found 85 percent of the studies showed minimum wage causes job loss. it just has to. if i am a businessman i have to pay people more i am going to hire a few less. >> the more studies to my mind are the studies that salo income people that make more money will
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inject the money back into the economy. >> that is true. if they have more money. >> i have a are $15 ma'am burger that's what he wants. >> you used to make minimum wage your parents were on welfare so you feel close to this. >> i feel this have a very personal level. you know what got me out of that it was not increasing the minimum wage it was getting education. the fact of the matter is, putting minimum wage unforeseeable level per pet waits the cycle of poverty. >> let me opose you a question from the late senator ted kennedy. >> sure. >> do you -- (inaudible) >> did ted kennedy ever work for minimum wage? i have no -- >> educational opportunity and we can pay a minute um wage. >> artificially hiking the
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minimum wage causes students to drop their long-term education. it gets them stuck in these very attractive sweet looking jobs in the short term. but in the long-term they sacrifice their long-term earning potential. why would you want to incentivize that. >> conservative comically and facetiously say why not make it $100. you could make the opposite argument mayke it zero. >> we are on the same page. >> only 5 percent of workers are paid minimum wage. 95 percent don't need the government rule. some people adults want to volunteer to work for 2 bucks or nothing. why can't we be freep to do that? >> why can't we be free to let children work? why can't we get rid of our clean air laws. because we need in some instances government to ep had us along as to what is equitable if we wanted a dom see.
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democracy. parents want their kids to work. don't people have free choice? >> we look at the 5 percent making a gazallion dollars or on the top of the economic ladder. there's no reason why you can't look at the 5 percent earning the minimum wage. that's an important five percent. >> the mentality of this is there is income ability. and you can move out of that 5 percent. you are incentivizing people to stay rather than work up that ladder. you are shaving off the bottom runnings of that ladder by hiking that standard for everyone. >> this is america. america will adjust if we raise the minimum wage and all of these arguments they never bear out each time you raise the minimum wage. >> this is government creeps. this is government creeps. >> government creep. on that note, thank you, kerry and rich. speaking of rich as we talk about inequality between poor and rich, what is rich?
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>> are you rich? >> no.
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>> what would it take for you to think of yourself as rich? >> 1 shun grand a year. >> maybe a million. >> 400,000. >> maybe a million dollars. >> very different concept of what it means to be rich. no one in times square who i asked if they were rich. yet most were tourists who spent a lot of money just to be in new york city. what does rich mean in america? who better to ask than radio host dave ramsey. he spent years talking to people about money. you say americans are richer than they know? >> if your household income is 34,000 a year or more you are in the top 1 percent of income work earners in the world. by definition most of us are rich. >> i think what roasts some people out in america is some people are so much richer than others. >> i have that same tug in my heart because i have spent my life devoted my life to helping people win with money and i want to see folks win with money, but i have figured out just like a
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golf coach, everybody is not going to be tiger woods, or everybody is not going to be payton manning. >> wouldn't it be better for america if government would do things to level the playing field make the rich closer to poor help the rich pay for the poor? >> if we decide with moral outrage we want to react to the unfairness the only answer to that is the loss of freedom. freedom and liberty, they are kind of chaotic but they give the little man the best opportunity to win. socialism and communism don't. really this whole discussion is a precursor to moving us toward social ichlg and communism away from liberty and freedom. >> to reduce the wealth cap in socialism? >> to reduce it artificially by government imposition taking it from the rich in rob pin hood kd of way and giving it to the poor. we said america doesn't work. the game is rigged. i have got a relative who says it's the corporations. it's the corporations.
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the corporations are some big bogeyman. it's not. bill gates started withing no. warren buffet started with nothing. tyler perry started with nothing. oprah started with nothing. it's 7 out of ten of them started with nothing. this idea that the thing is rigged and you can't win is -- that's where i really have a problem with our president when he says this. he doesn't believe in freedom. he doesn't believe in capitalism. what he is really saying the under lining torn of this philosophical argument is we have to move toward government intervention to prevent this unfairness. >> if you look back at household income over the years americans have gotten richer in 1901 the average was $750 but in today's dollars 20,000 in 47 when i was born 31,000. today twice that 62,000. >> my first year out of college i made 18,000 dollars. three years later i was making 250,000 dollars. the next year i made 6,000
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dollars and so on. you know whose fault all of that was? mine. every one of those things were my fault when it was working and when it wasn't working. yes i am in this environment i have opportunity and i believe, but what we have is not a crisis of inequality we have crisis of belief that we can go into this marketplace and win. when we sell young people on the idea they can't succeed because the game is rigged we are selling them socialism is the answer. >> there is a big difference in the game. i had two parents. i was able to go to a good high school. many people have a much harder start. >> well, they do. some people start from different places than others. we all have different sets of challenges. a gal on twitter is angry with me because i was talking about this stuff. you are a middle class white guy. you started with an advantage like that. i have a mowning man worki-- yo man african american who did a
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beautiful job and grew up in the homes in the projects. the idea you can't win in this marketplace. can find plenty of excuses. i am bald. you got gray hair. i can find an excuse. it's not a even distribution of hair. >> thank you dave ramsey. >> coming up, what is fair and is it all about money? i say, it was unfair that i got picked on when i was a little kid because i was extra small. i want a government program to protect late bloomers. that's next. {off-lin {off-line}d is ever... {off-lin but the truth is... we don't have to. the experts have spoken. now it's your move. ♪ now it's your move. in controlling yournow overactive bladder symptoms. the new oxytrol for women patch. the first and only overhe counter treatment for overactive bladder.
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john: these people are r >> these people are rich. many are multi millionaires. yet they smile and pose on the red carpet other americans struggle. how is that fair? is the gap between rich and poor keeps increasing. today the rich is one percent of americans own a third of america's wealth. one percent own 35 percent. that's just not right say many americans. that wealth is the reason for the minimum wage program. it was oo reason for ook pie wall street and so on. (chanting) >> that sign is absurd 99
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percent of americans are not poor. but in a rich country. what is fair? the offer of the new book the baby boom expanded my thinking of the concept of fairness. he wrote freedom is not fair. i have a 13-year-old daughter it's not fair. it's not fair. you are cute honey. that's not fair. you are smart, that's not fair. you were born in the united states. that's not fair. you better get down on your knees and pray things don't start getting fair for you. the movie stars on the red carpet is are the not only rich but they have other advantages. jennifer lawrence is pretty. george clooney is better looking than i am. what's fair about that? i want to be a pro basketball player. not fair lebron james is taller and stronger an more skilled, too. it is not my fault i am 5, 9 not
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fair i matured late and i got picked on because i had a little high voice and every other boy's voice changed. that was not fair. maybe what america needs is a handicapper general. kurt von began suggested that in his book. surgeon general, attorney general would make sure no one has an unfair advantage over any one else. >> intelligence for your pieces that kept them from taking unfair advantage of their brains. even the beautiful sometimes wore masks in situations where beauty might be too distracting. >> the idea of redistributing income to the poor seems more reasonable especially when americans are so rich. the truth is it's a fate of most of the poor does not fortunately depend on government. the best poverty fighter is free
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market capitals. it is withering contempt but it allowed millions of people to left themselves out of poverty. fools in the media say capitalism searchs the rich at the expense of the poor. that's not true. when everyone is free to trade free markets give more people the power to prosper. in many ways it is the big equalizer. money doesn't care if you are white or black or brown. the people at the bottom new capitalism the most. partial premarket is why even government problems fail. poor people in america don't suffer the way the poor suffer in most of the world. in america even america at the bottom of the ladder do pretty well. one of our health problems is obesity. you know you live in a good place when one of the biggest problems is we are too fat. free market capitalism does allow some people to get much richer than others. but that's okay.
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inequality may seem unfair but the alternative is force. that makes everyone poorer. that's our show. see you next week. brush brush bru tonight on huckabee. republicans attacking members of their own party. >> don't focus on the people in office. focus on those you would like to replace. and then the war in iraq is over. and al-qaeda flags are fly nothing fallujah and soldiers that lost brothers in iraq and tell us how they felt to see the iraqi cities back in the hands of the extremist. >> plus if good guys have guns, the bad guys will stay away. detroit police chief james craig tonight. ♪

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