common sense. thanks for joining us on this special edition of "huckabee." from new york, this is m huckabee. good night and god bless and stay tuned for judge jeanine. welcome to a special edition of justice. i'm judge jeanine pirro. tonight in our long investigation into the dangers facing the u.s. power grid, what would it take to bring it down? and if our system did break down, how would you you asurviv what would it be like in the dark? i'm in lower manhattan right now standing in front of a typical power station. but last month i went to a meeting just a few blocks from here in the freezing cold. when i came out of that meeting,

i was frozen. not from bitter temperatures, but from fear. i learned things that no one is talking about, things that can change my life, your life and the lives of everyone you know forever. i started thinking about how fragile life is and how ill-prepared we are for this. tonight, in an exclusive justice investigation, the vulnerability of america's power system, the united states electric grid. are we ready for a terror attack? and what would we do if the ligh lights went out? tonight is about a series of forces and individuals, who instead of doing the right thing for you and me, are playing politics and gambling with your safety and our way of life. now, who of us could ever envision 9/11 happening? but the difference between 9/11 and what i'm about to tell you

is that we know that this can happen. the question is not will it happen, but when will it happen. and the consequences would be a million times worse than 9/11. one day you're enjoying the comforts of life. the next, everything is different. civilization as you know it would be gone. an electromagnetic pulse would destroy all electronics and the transformers that power everything, anything, with an on/off switch. your hot water heater, your refrigerator, dialysis machine, most of the food you have at home is spoiled. and all you have in your pocket is all you can access. i imagine myself waking up to

total darkness, nothing in my homeworking. food spoiled, water not running. i rummage through whatever last cans of food i can find. i'm alone, because my kids and loved ones have no way to get to me. and i'm afraid, afraid to leave because it's too dangerous. people are desperate, they're hungry, our civilization thrown back to the dark ages. i'm scared and helpless, and i don't know how i can survive. if there were to be such a catastrophic failure, our death toll would be staggering. a blue ribbon commission predicting mass fatalities, horrific loss of life. some even saying nine out of ten americans would die. this is not science fiction. it's real. tonight we'll tell you about the ways that it could happen. solar flare, an electromagnetic

pulse, a nuclear device, a cyber attack or a simple, physical assault, all of which would break down our society as we know it. you know, in this complicated world that we live in, many wish us destruction. but it is he who has the capacity, ability and inclination to act on that ill will against america. it is he against whom we must be ever vigilant. now, scientists tell us that an emp created by a nuclear weapon at high altitude is the most efficient way to take out america's electric grid, telecommunication networks and all critical infrastructures. as i stand here now, north korea has a satellite the size and weight of a small nuclear weapon orbiting at an altitude c

conducive to an emp attack and it approaches us from the south, a direction that defies all warnings or military threats. two months ago, two missiles on their launchers were discovered in panama on a north korean vessel hidden under sugar bags. reports are that our grids have already been penetrated by our enemies, leaving behind software programs that can compromise it. there are other ways to take down our grid, a simple, direct, physical attack like an assault on a local substation. fact. ten months ago, unknown attackers attempted to blow up a san jose transformer substation in a military style raid. no one has been apprehended. the fbi and local police call it

vandalism. as if billy bob and bubba, after a few beers and a night out, get their hands on ak-47s and surgically knock out 17 transformers, 16 circuit breakers after cutting underground fiberoptic cables and outsmarting security cameras and motion sensors. these terrorists are still out there. and less than a week later, in a shockingly similar attack in tennessee, a suspect on a boat fired shots at a nuclear power plant and then engaged with police. a trespasser, you might say? someone armed from the water willing to engage in a shootout with law enforcement is certainly not bubba with a few beers in him. and even if no one attacks our grid, the sun will. the earth is exposed to intense solar flaring roughly every 150

years. the last time it occurred was 1859. do the math. we're due. now, i'm not saying this to panic anyone, but everyone, including our enemies, know that an artificially created electromagnetic pulse will shut down all power which risks our complete survival. we possess, the united states possesses, the world's largest power system. what is our government doing to make sure our grid is really protected? are we ready for an attack on our grid and the catastrophic failure that would result? and that's my open. and joining me now is former navy s.e.a.l. christopher mark heathen. christopher, thank you for

joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> you were a navy s.e.a.l. for more than a decade. you have experience with the grid. what can you tell us about it? >> the power grid is an amazingly easy to dismantle. as a conventional warfare specialist, i was trained to dismantle and take down power grids in other countries. believe me, it doesn't take a doctorate from m.i.t. to figure out how to make an emp device to take down not only the substation, which is this right here, but the transmission stations and distribution stations. utilizing a cell phone device, remote firing device technology, could bring down 15 transmissions at one time. >> with a cell phone? >> with a cell phone. absolutely. >> you don't have to be that smart, that sophisticated or anything to take down power systems? >> technically, no. >> what do you do to prevent that kind of thing from happening? >> we utilize what's called red cell tactics, techniques and

procedures where we go into installations and do what's called a threat and vulnerability session to show them where their weaknesses are. i've done that as a have ivilci with my own business. the powers that be don't take your recommendations as serious for whatever reason. we have what's called the federal energy -- the ferc. it's a regulatory commission for energy, and it's made up of guys who are desk jockeys, former fbi agents that have never been down range, they're not trained in unconventional warfare. they took a class for two days or three days and now they're putting them in charge of this energy commission? it's ridiculous. >> you say when you do a report, assessing the vulnerabilities of these particular substations or transmission centers, what happens to those reports? >> they sit on a desk. they get looked at and tossed around and they say, wow, these

recommendations are too costly, or we're not going to do them because they're going to affect our bottom line. that's usually what happens. if you look at this building, there are cameras everywhere. but a camera without a person behind it is a dead camera. you can't take a person that worked on walmart yesterday and looked at a camera and make them a security expert. that's what we see in the fbi with these programs. this transmission that took place in san jose, one or two guys probably did it. >> and of course, that's the one with the ak-47s and they took out the whole substation, almost. >> as a s.e.a.l., those were techniques i would have utilized in order to make that happen. what no one is talking about is this affected silicon valley directly. what's in silicon valley? yahoo, facebook, pay pal, something americans use on a daily basis. >> what do you think their goal was? >> i'm thinking two things.

i'm thinking it could have been a test, but i'm also thinking maybe there's some things they've already instituted or implemented as a result of an attack. >> you know the dangers to and you say to americans. what do you think it's going to take to get people to focus on this? >> judge, you know, that's a very good question. as americans, we've traditionally had kneejerk reactions to everything. 9/11, we were proactive for a little bit, but now we're not taking any proactive approaches. as americans, we're in trouble right now. i think there's things that are in play right now in our country that we're not aware of. if our power grids go down, i suggest everyone stock up on batteries, baby wipes and biscuits because it's going to be a series of very long nights and months. >> right now we know there are surface to air missiles that were identified in panama with a north korean flag on the vessel that were hidden under sugar bags. what does that trigger in your mind? >> that just tells me there are

many forces that are complicit with attacks on the u.s. from the inside-out. pakistan has anatomic bomb. china doesn't like us very much, neither does north korea. it's not hard to fathom that these countries are getting together and plotting and planning the destruction of our country from within. our borders are very porous right now. that's another bone of contention. we have problems, judge, we really do. >> christopher mark heben, thank you@w@wowowpg÷÷owúç÷gçngogg

the power grid is vital to our way of life. and by all accounts, it's w woefully unprotected. the threat of a terror attack is one that needs to be taken seriously, now. so says my next guest, former

united states ambassador and former director of the cia, james woolsey. ambassador, thanks for being with us. you ran the cia. you know firsthand how many enemies we have out there. what do you think is the biggest threat to our grid? >> they could launch a satellite with a simple nuclear weapon in it. it's best if they launch it around the southern pole because we don't have any defenses and very little warning down there. and while it's in orbit, just to detonate it. and this can be a very simple nuclear weapon, something like we dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki. it doesn't nyack raean any accu. you're not trying to hit anything specific on ground. if you detonate is up to 100 miles, it would take out the

grid for most of the united states. >> why don't we have defenses in the southern part -- i talked about this in the open -- in the southern part of our nation so that a satellite could come in and could be detonated? i mean, it doesn't even have to be specific. why are there no missile defenses down there? >> i guess i would say, if i were being flippant, that we've turned over defending the country for the electric grid to people with the overall focus of ostriches. nobody really wants to do anything on this in the federal government except stick their heads in the sand. >> ambassador, do you think thalt powthat the power plants across the country have the protection that they need? >> no, absolutely not. nuclear power plants, particularly, if hit by an electromagnetic pulse would melt down before too long, and you would have disasters emanating from the nuclear power plants as well as from a lot of other

sources. if you take out by taking down the grid, if you take out the electrical system, everything else goes down, too. we have 18 critical infrastructures in the country, and 17 of them depend on electricity. so you lose your communication system, you lose transportation, you lose your bank teller system for getting money. nothing works. >> and you were the head of the cia. >> yes. >> our enemies know all this, correct? >> i'm afraid they do. the russians have told us that they, back in the early '90s, told the north koreans a great deal about how to use an electromagnetic pulse detonation. the iranians and the north koreans have both orbited satellites to the south, and the north koreans have tested several simple nuclear weapons. iranians haven't yet but probably will before too many months go.

so we have at least two very bad states tied very closely to terrorist groups and the rest that could be idealogically crazy enough to try something like this. and, you know, you don't need a satellite. you can lift a nuclear weapon quite easily with a weather balloon up into orbit and detonate it. that's all that's needed. >> not very comforting. all right, ambassador woolsey, thank you very much for being with us. >> good to be with you. >> coming up, the former secretary of energy. when the lights actually did go out. spencer

. we take for granted when we flip a switch, the lights fw on. when we turn a key, the car starts. but it seems that the united states is not taking steps to reduce our vulnerability. with me our former secretary of energy spencer abraham. secretary, you were the secretary when the lights actually did go out in the northeast blackout of 2003. what's been done to prevent something like that happening on a national scale? >> well, you know, there's been a lot of things done, and i think what we learned then was not having reliability standards that were enforcible at the federal level made it possible for people to do things, utilities and others, at the local level that certainly didn't meet the right standards. we did pass legislation to create a federal reliability standard in 2005, and i do think that has improved, but the other thing that needs to happen here,

and i always stress this, is that the public has to appreciate the point you made. for the lights to go on every time, we need to be more open to having adequate supplies of power and having transmission systems that are modernized and up to date. and all too often, what we find are groups, individuals, whoever trying to stop any new development in these areas. >> all right. well, secretary, listen to what former transportation secretary ray lahood said on the show a few weeks ago. >> we know that all of the transit systems that run around our country today are electrified by power grids. if the northeast quadrant were shut down, it would cause a calamity. >> and there's no question that's the case, but this is the united states of america, secretary. we have a congress, we have a president. we know we're vulnerable, we're not talking out of school here.

what is it going to take to get the government -- not that they're starting to work together -- but the government to really clamp down on the local electric companies and people who control the grid? >> well, first of all, i think there is a lot of oversight. in the wake of 9/11, and i was secretary at that time, we met with tom ridge, who became homeland security secretary and i worked together and met on regular occasions with the people who run the systems to try to help them do a better job. a lot of information is shared between the companies and between the government and the companies. i don't think there's been a massive failure here. i think there is always the ability to improve things. but i do think we have to have cooperation not only from the local utilities but from the citizenry itself. and i think for people to object to every new power project or transmission system upgrade is a contributing factor. >> all right. secretary abraham, thank you so

much for being with us. >> judge, good to be with you. thank you. and coming up, this should be a bipartisan issue. $$ e>">">"

the prime minister is promising she will run for president in new elections shech. she got out of a hospital prison earlier today. now back to regular programming. an attack on the california power plant last april got almost no press until my next guest brought it to the front pages. rebecca smith from the wall street journal joins me now from san francisco. rebecca, you were all over this, and, you know, it's ten months later. with little or no press, other than yours, and virtually nothing done in terms of an arrest, why do you think this went so unreported until now? >> i think because the people who had knowledge of what happened, for the most part, didn't want us to know. and that is to say the utility that was afraid of copycat

attacks and the fbi and other law enforcement that hadn't been able to crack the case. >> well, you know, when you say copycat attacks, isn't it important for the fbi and the local power companies to recognize the vulnerability and then kind of use this as a reason to protect our grid? i mean, it's nice to say we don't want a copycat, but it's not like the rest of the world doesn't know this. >> as a matter of fact, we hadot want a copycat but the cat it out of the bag. there are other critical substations equally vulnerable. >> you said right off the bat, to your credit, rebecca, that this is not an amateur operation. why? >> you're a former prosecutor, so you know all about sifting through evidence. since we don't know who did it, there haven't been any arrests, we don't know what the motive

was. there are plenty of pieces of evidence to suggest that something was very well planned. to begin with, they started by cutting fiberoptic cables for level 3 communications. >> underground. >> underground in vaults. very difficult to lift those lids. they knew just what to cut, they cut it in such a way it was thoord repahard to repair. then they moved to a substation and damaged a piece of equipment that could cause great damage without causing a fire or something that would be a massive explosion or fire that would have attracted attention. as you know, judge, this substation sits right next to a major freeway, so there are people passing by at all times of night. i don't think they wanted to draw attention. >> in addition, they had the ak-47 almost sharpshooting, military style raid for almost took out how many transformers? >> they took out 17. and the thing that's important to note, the utility will say, you know, it's bad, but people

didn't lose power. the fact of the matter is these transformers were damaged, but they weren't destroyed. if they had been destroyed, it would have been quite a different situation. >> all right. and then shocking is that the fbi is still calling this vandalism as if it's a bunch of teens. anyway, rebecca smith, we're going to stay on this. thank you so much for your reporting. and i'm joined now by mainstay representative andrea bowland who fought to have emergency representation in her home state of maine that would fight to keep the grid and the electromagnetic pulse. your state of maine is considered the most vulnerable of the lower 48. you sponsored a bill, the first of its kind in the nation. tell us about the bill and the law. >> what the bill asked for was to put protections on the major transformers and the grid in maine as a requirement for going forward with any expansions that they want to do and to also put

them on the current expansion that is under way. what happened was when these fabulous experts came to maine, they opened up the understanding of the utilities committee so broadly that they understood it was a huge issue, and they passed a bill out of the committee unanimously as emergency legislation. >> there is an estimate that it would cost homeowners $2 each to upgrade the grid or to provide the security that you would need in the state of maine; is that correct? >> that's right. it would cost about $2 per year per household for about four years. so as one of the experts comment, it's the cost of a movie ticket. >> even less. i don't know where you're going to go the movies. anyway, thank you very much, representative boland. with me is mayor congressman andrew harris who is on the house appropriations committee and a member of the electropulse

congress. feinstein and reid and others are now pushing for stronger security standards of power plants, saying the attack was a wake-up call. as if they didn't already know based upon legislation that you've been involved in, the work that you've done, the grid act, the sipa act, the shield act. as if this is the first time they're hearing about it. can you please explain to the american people why these politicians decide to come out when we hear about it and be against it but won't pass the stuff in washington? >> well, judge, i don't know. we really have to get on this and get on it as soon as possible. we have the shield act before the house now. it's already been filed. we can easily amend that act to include terrorist attacks or physical attacks like this attack and protect our grid. >> all right. and when you talk about the shield act, you're talking about

its hr bill 2147? >> yeah, it's the act that would protect against electromagnetic pulse, but what the attack in california showed us is there are other hazards as well, especially a physical attack, which could be a terrorist style attack, which it appears to be that's what happened in california. >> and comically, not even ironically, comically, the fbi and the local police are calling it vandalism as if a bunch of kids decided to have a few beers, get a few ak-47s and decide to start sharpshooting after cutting underground cables and getting into a structure to do that, a protected structure, and avoiding the cameras and avoiding the monitors. but let's get to the core issue. is this about money or is it about who would take credit to protect the american people? >> i think it's about the money. i think it's everyone expecting someone else to pay for it. this is a national issue, and, you know, it can be tried to be

dealt with at the state level, but honestly, unless you protect the national grid, you're not going to really make headway, so we ought to do it on a national level, and what we ought to do is take money that's already coming into the department of energy. they have a $30 billion a year budget. 10% of that budget would permanently protect our grid. we ought to just do it and take the money we're already collecting. >> when you're talking about energy, i can reference half a billion dollars that was literally thrown away on the green energy and the mess that s salinger created for the american people. finally, let me just ask one more question. if americans want to get their congresspeople to support legislation, what do they need to do? >> they need to call their congressman, call their senator today, tomorrow, right now and say, look, we need protection. our electrical grid needs protection. please pass the shield act and include measures in it that would protect against california style attacks. it's simple to be done. we should do it quickly and just

move on. take care it have and move on. >> congressman, the grid act passed the house and then went to the senate. what happened to it in the senate? >> they couldn't agree on the cybersecurity part of the bill. that bill addressed both emp, physical attack and cybersecurity and got hung up because they couldn't agree. >> it died, right? >> it died, and we're left without protection. >> congressman, do you find it frustrating that after the san jose attack comes to light, we've got all these senators -- and remember, the democrats are in charge in the senate. they're now concerned about the dangers having to do with the grid when they wouldn't let this thing out of committee in the senate, they wouldn't vote it out and they wouldn't work with the other side of the aisle to get a bill that people could agree on. >> it's very frustrating because we have the answers. this is not complicated, judge. we know exactly how to protect these substations, we just got to do it. we just have to make up our mind and do it. >> all right, representative andy harris, thank you so much

for being with us. and coming up,

welcome back to justice's continuing investigation into the dangers facing the u.s. power grid. now, you might be thinking, this could never happen. it sounds like science fiction. let me assure you, it's real.

with me now a man fighting to convince the nation and our leaders of this danger, former deputy assistant secretary of defense for nuclear forces in the reagan administration and now the president for the center of security policy, frank afton. frank, i want you to explain to me how the power gets to homes. there you go. >> there you see a generating site, probably gas powered, i would guess, stepping down to get the bulk power distributed as efficiently as possible through to the places that need it, namely the industrial sites and then stepping down, stepping down to getting it to people's homes through underground power lines in some cases and aboveground power lines elsewhere. you see here a pole transformer, which most people are probably familiar with. those are basically a dime a dozen. the ones that are very, very

hard to come by and that are essentially effectively irreplaceable are the high voltage transformers that you saw in the first step down that is really critical to the backbone of the grid. >> a couple questions. number one, when you talk about some of the bigger parts of it, is it true that some of it is made in china and other countries so that were they to be damaged and our power went out totally in this country that we would have a hard time replacing some of the main components? >> yeah. as i understand it, these transformers, which, as i say, are the backbone, really, of the grid, the high energy transformers of which we've got about 2,000, essentially no spares to speak of. they're custom built for where they go into the grid, and it takes about a year to have them custom built, hand built, no less, in places principally like germany, south korea and india perhaps. where the thing really breaks down is, if it takes a year to get one, and then once you've

got it order and had delivered to a seaport, you have to really work to get it to the site. if you need 10, if you need 20, if you need a thousand of them, forget it. >> you have been on this for a long time, and you talk about the catastrophic consequences to human life in this country if there were to be an attack on the grid, whether it's solar, which is natural, the electromagnetic pulse, and i'm not going to go through all of the causes, what do you -- i mean, what are are the predictions? >> i think the most authoritative assessment of all of this has been done, and i know you've got a copy of a book we just put out, entitled "guilty knowledge" which describes 11 studies. it's the executive summary of 11 studies the government has done over the past decade. the first of them, and arguably, one of the most important, was done by a blue ribbon commissioned by the congress led by a fellow by the name of dr. william graham.

dr. graham believes on the basis of this detailed study over several years that after a year without power in large parts of the united states, nine out of ten americans will be dead. >> dead. dead. >> this is catastrophe, obviously, of the first order, the economy has created, society has broken down. and the trouble is, if you try to fix it at that point, it's too late. you need to fix it now to prevent such an eventuality. >> i think we have something we can throw up now on some of the sam missions that came to light. tell us about what was found. >> this is the inside of a ship, a north korean vessel that was intercepted and searched in panama last summer. in its hold, and in those green canisters you see surfaced air missiles, old ones, but surfaced air missiles known as so-2's. they are very reliable. they are designed to be

conventional armed or nuclear armed. had they had a nuclear weapon on them, and some of them are actually on their watchers, and those things were on top of the ship instead of down under 10,000 tons of sugar, they could have launched with essentially no warning an emp, electromagnetic pulse attack, and detonated a nuclear weapon all over the united states, again, with devastating effects. >> let's talk about the fact that in the southern part of our country, the approaches are not as protected as other parts? >> they're not protected at all. in fact, we don't even have warning systems that something like those sam missiles might be sending a missile our way, let alone any means of destroying that missile in flight. this is one of the things that i think those of us who believe that missile defense is a necessary component of a strong national security have ar ggued for, but quite apart from that, we need to have the pieces of the grid, most especially the

irreplaceable transformers hardened, protected. the good news about this, of all the things you cover on your show and i worry about day in, day out, judge, this is one we know what to do about. for over 50 years the pentagon in which i serve has been harboring things that are top priorities. >> then the legislation in america, the american people should be as outraged as i am. >> that's what this book is about, is demonstrating the guilty knowledge of our government. >> we've been asking fred for several weeks, number one, would he come on the show, he takes some much money from lobbyist energy companies, and now he's in charge of the energy committee. >> he could make a world of difference by simply enabling a piece of legislation called the shield act to get through his committee to get to the floor. interestingly enough, he was a co-sponsor of this legislation at one point. i've never had a satisfactory

explanation for why he's allowed it to be bottled up ever since. >> shame on him. >> there are efforts under way in the senate to begin getting that kind of legislation through over there. we can get this done, but you have been lending a calcable service by letting@w@wowowpg÷÷g

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we're back with our special justice investigation into the safety of the united states' power grid. joining me now is the executive director for int national preparedness ned wo

preparedness network. so what do you do? if it was something that was nationwide, do we survive? how does the individual survive? >> well, the individual has to do the things beforehand. they have to take the necessary steps to protect themselves because obviously, as you discussed in earlier parts of the program, government isn't going to do the job. it's not functional in this way. there's so much debate about what needs to get done and what we should do. what the people have to recognize is they have to do for self at this point. the only way to protect yourself from a cat as astrophe is to ta the precautions before it does. >> so what do i do? we look in a society where everything is fast food, immediate gratification. you pull into a drive-through and you get lunch and you're happy. >> right. >> how do i survive this if i have no food? >> okay. you do it like you have a threat assessment. well, what's the problem?

and then you talk about what the solutions are to the problem. we have a blackout, a large-scale power outage that would be a long-term catastrophe. >> so how do i survive? >> you need food, water. you can get them at camping stores, online. specifically, freeze-dried. it's already prepared. and if you don't want to do that, you have canned goods. they are nonperishable items that you don't have to put in the refrigerator. >> they realize on 9/11 that it can change in a minute. >> i think that sometimes people can be overwhelmed by the information itself because there's so much -- like you mentioned earlier in the program about 1859 and if we had that event, people do not understand the magnitude of an emergency

like that if it happened today and they've got to recognize that if people thought katrina was bad, we're talking about transformers being destroyed. the power transformers cannot be repaired. they have to be replaced. >> what would you say to people who think that preppers, what we're talking about, is a fringe movement? >> obviously there are different degrees of prepping. i can tell you this much, in times of trouble and in times of chaos, it's the preppers who are going to have food, it's the preppers who are going to have water. it's the preppers that are going to have medications. so it depends on what you want to look at but it's better to have and not need than to need and not have. >> thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> we appreciate it. >> what you've just seen and heard is a very, very possible future if we do not do something to protect our grid. what's even more frightening is

that this can be prevented. but as with most problem, greed, self-interests, and politicians that care more about their next elections than the american people and the lack of leadership in our capital interfere with our safety. the shame is that the principle federal regulator that establishes standards for local power companies is also tasked with promoting the interest of the utilities. now, how you regulate and promote private companies at the same time? the legislation intended to protect us has been blocked in washington again and again. there is one bill that can help us prevent this catastrophe and remedy our vulnerability. and, make no mistake, it can be remedied. politicians are blocking that bill. they are playing politics with our lives and we cannot tolerate this. this is a nonpartisan issue. one of the most important in

washington today. and it's not going away. i'm not afraid to say that this scares the hell out of me and it should scare the hell out of you, too. that's it for ustime they lost

huckabee is next. canned chore -- >> tonight on huckabee. the president called 2014 a year of action. >> president is doing without congress getting involved. >> 2014 is the year of midterm election. >> you don't have 218 votes you have nothing. >> can the gop address the issue of jobs and obama care. we'll have no chance of stopping obama for two more years if we don't take more seats in the house and win the senate. >> republicans can't win because the democrats fumble the ball. they have to carry it to the goal line. tonight a huckabee special. how can the repu