with your time, congratulations it's a great movie. i hope everyone will go see it. >> thank you >> i go to the university of california irvine, >> louisiana state university. >> virginia tech. >> guatemala. >> university of south dakota. >> university of -- [inaudible] john: a special edition, 1500 college students from all over the world gathered here to debate what makes for a free society. these are our future leader learning about liberty. students usually don't learn about that in school. tonight, what you ought to know about economic freedom, free speech, personal responsibility, drugs, privacy, and america's

constitution. stossel u, that's our show, tonight. ♪ [cheers and applause] and now, john stossel. [cheers and applause] john: thank you, you students are unusual. you have a special interest in liberty. moss people don't which makes me wonder, how many of you ever discuss liberty on your campuses? how many of your professors discuss it? [laughter] how many of them discuss social justice? many more. i'm not surprised given the love for big government on big campuses. most of your professors probably don't know much about basic economics, which is why we titled this show "stossel

university," and our professors are ab biand john, here to tell students about what they should learn about economics. you can't do it all. first thing? >> first thing to learn is that intentions are not results. judge policies by results and not stated intentions. second, people in the public sector are just as self-interested and no more enlightened than people in the private sector. john: nice or vicious as everybody else. >> absolutely. john: they are doing the public good. they are different. >> that's what they say. john: other ideas are taught. higher taxes encourage work. carl smith, who teaches economics at the university of north north carolina says taxes make me poorer and when people are poorer, they work more for the things they want, therefore taxes should make me work harder. >> when you tax something, you get less of it. if you tax work, there's less of it. same for investment in business. this is why in countries with high taxes like the united states, you see slow growth and

slow job creation. john: can you believe economic professors teach this stuff? >> i wonder if professor smith would double his teaching load if unc chopped the salary in half. i bet not. [laughter] john: there's a credit crisis, regulate the banks. you testified that dodd-frank is the cure. >> dodd-frank was passed in response to the financial crisis to protect consumers, but what we are seeing in practice is that consumers are having less access to credit and savings, and bank fees at record highs, and 3 million people shut out of the banking system. it's a law of unintended consequences. john: as americans, we should buy america. >> buying from foreign, we get goods at lower prices. you want access to the lowest priced goods, but when americans buy from foreigners we send that money abroad, money comes back to america as demand for

american exports or investment in america. it's normally not seen by the people who don't know economics, but it's real, and it helps america. john: more patriotic if i buy american stuff. >> no, no. when you buy american stuff for that sake, that means you are not employing resources as they should be employed. there's no reason you shouldn't choose the best deal you can find. that's patriotic. john: income inequality. the theme of the day, and it is gross that some people have so much more than others, shouldn't government try to even it out? >> government already does to a large extent so the top 20% of earners pay 70% of taxes. we have a huge social safety net. what's concerning to me is not income inequality, but we have millions of people trapped in poverty from a broken welfare instigate, broken education system. john: a gallop pole finds 78% of people your age support raising the minimum wage.

most of the public does, more people your age do. how many agree we should raise the minimum wage? [laughter] all right. well, you clear lier are libertarians. >> if you raise the minimum wage, you raise cost to employers of employing low skilled workers. when you raise the cost, you get less of it. simple as that. john: i want to hear from the students. what questions do you have for abby and john? take it away. >> okay, hi, i'm lauren clark from arizona state university. i'm currently studying journalism, so it's my dream to take over your show one day. john: please do. [laughter] >> my question to you guys is i'm also very interested in economics. why is it that in the university sector, there's so many progressive people studying economics when, to me, it's just reasonable sense? >> you know, i wish i had a good answer to the question. i don't understand why people who don't get economics don't get it.

it's like they are blind to reality and the fact that gravity is operational. >> but i also think they are not exposed to it. the majority of high school students are not exposed to it or college students. can't be guilty for something you don't know. >> i'm sky lar, and i study economics at the university of albany, and my question to you guys is that when talking about income inequality, how do you find the most effective way to relay to people it's government responsible for creating the disparity in the first place. [applause] >> what, what, what? government? some people are smarter than others, some have a silver spoon. >> look, there's certainly crony capitalism, but i don't doubt that in markets, some people prosper more income-wise. what i like to point out is that one of the great benefits of free market is while it increases from time to time, income inequality, it decreases

consumption inequality. rich people do not consume much more than poor people today. the difference between what poor people and rich people consume is shrinking ever, ever -- they are getting closer. john: you brought a catalog along to make a point? >> yeah. the typical american worker then had to work 30 hours to buy this vacuum, and today, they only work six hours to buy a better one. the poor are getting richer in america because of the innovative capitalism. [applause] >> i study history at eastern kentucky university, and i just wanted to see what your personal opinion of bitcoin was. >> i'm all in favor of anything that competes with monopoly central banks. [cheers and applause]

i hope it succeeds. john: have you bought some? >> i have not. [laughter] john: have you? i have. >> i'm dan, i go to community college and obamacare's first state of massachusetts, and i wonder if you guys believe there's, like, a better alternative to social spending such as food stamps and social security? >> the milton freed mapp had an idea, a negative income tax, basically, everybody has a guaranteed level of income, and it wouldn't have the same distortions the current welfare system has if this discourages work or marriage, for instance, and this level would be set low enough that people don't grow dependent on it. [applause] >> i'm michael ashley, student at the university of delts. what do you think is 5 good outline or effective measure of creating a small government that

stays small? >> one idea proposed to keep government smaller is to link federal spending as a percentage of gdp with an actual rule, and congressman are held responsible if they want to increase spending above historical norms. that's a good starting place. >> another idea is to repeal five rules and pass one. [laughter] >> my name is ken williams, political science student at ohio university. in obamacare, with -- how -- where there's a distrust theme for the insurance companies because they want to make a profit, that the solution to that is to andate the insurance companies. >> where the idea comes from, i don't know, it's a dumb idea. [laughter] [applause] insurance companies have incentives to provide the right

mix of coverage at competitive premiums, and obamacare mandates this and that coverage, that interferes with private choices. private choices that give rise to better policies in absence mandates. john: thank you, out of time for questions for this segment. thank you abby and john, and if you want to keep the conversation going, here's the twitter hash tag, isflc. i don't know how you remember that, but stands for international students for liberty conference, which is where we are. let people know what you think. coming up, what do you know about america's founding documents? i'll give you and our student audience a quiz. [cheers and applause] you knso i get invitedpeople have saved with progressive, to quite a fewfamily g. heck, i saved dith here a fortune

you make a mighty finesus, m'l. i'm nosaying mark's thrifty. let's just say, i savehim $519, and it certainly didn't go toward that ng. am i right [ laughs [ dancmusic playing ] so visit progrsive.com today. i call this one "the robox." ♪

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snot ♪ [cheers and applause] %-okay, college students, a quik pop quiz. in the constitution and declaration of independence, and here it is together, how many times is the word "democracy" used? fewer than five times or five or

more times. who says five or more times here? who says fewer? all right. well, you guys are educated. i didn't know this. it never mentioned the word democracy so you people should read this. it's not long. our constitution is shorter than the constitution from most other countries. do you want one of these? get it from the cato institute, cato.org on the web, they charge you five bucks for them, and we give them out free. question two, the constitutiin was prepared in secret behind closed doors guarded by centuries. is that true? who thinks it's true?

this is true. to learn more, we turn to someone who knows, tim, author of the conscious of the constitution. you went to a college where there was contempt for this. some white men, some slave holders, why should this be so important today? >> well, the constitution of the united states is a promise about how government power will be used, and it's a promise that was left to us by a generation who lived under tyrannical government and needed a frame work to preserve the blessings @% liberty for posterity, and we have to be grateful for that. john: but it's not relevant today. >> it's true, but the constitution's promise has been broken time and time again by our government, but we are very fortunate we can at least point to it and say this is what the frame work of our government was designed to do. secure the blessings of liberty.

that's the most important part? >> thars right. liberty is a blessing. it does not say the same thing about democracy or government in general. the constitution was written to protect liberty against government whether it be a democratic dporm of government or any other kind of government. john: but it also says ensure domestic tranquility. that could be speech codes, decency codes. it says promote the general welfare, obamacare, take care of people. >> but that's only within the frame work of the liberty which the declaration says we are all born entitled to. the most important part of the constitution is its limitations, limitations on government. look at article 1 section 1, first sentence says "all legislative powers herein granted are vested in congress." people skip that thinking congress has all power to do whatever is a good idea. that's no what the constitution

says, but says all powers listed in the constitution are begin to the congress. if it's not in the constitution, congress does not have the power to do that. john: but they do it all the time. >> that's true, they do. unfortunately, the elected officials have a huge incentive to do what they think is popular. john: and the supreme court, for the most part, has not symptommed them. >> the supreme court goes with joust overreaching, especially in the obamacare case. what happened was the supreme court said, well, the government can't force people to buy things. now, that was, itself, actually a huge victory for individual freedom. can you imagine what would have happened if it came out the other way, if congress suddenly had the power to force us to buy whatever politicians think we should have? the court said then, well, but we're still going to uphold obama care because it's not the role of the courts to protect people from the political choices, and that's false. it is the role of the courts to enforce the constitution, which

is a limit on political choices. john: any supreme court cases -- [applause] that you're happy with? >> there are. john: pick two. >> when i fell in love with the constitution in ninth grade and learned of the court's decision, tinker versus des moines school district, black arm bands protesting the vietnam war, and their teachers said not to do this, and they sued and said we have a first amendment right to do this, and the supreme court ruled in their favor saying individual rights do not stop at the schoolhouse gate. when i read that decision, i made my parents drive me to the county law library to photo copy the decision, the days before the internet, and i felt in that decision, i felt the constitution -- john: you were an odd kid. >> i was a nerd. can you imagine? [laughter] i felt, when reading that discussion, i felt the constitution reach out and touch me and protect me and say my

rights couldn't be taken away by people telling me what to do. [applause] john: you also mention lawrence versus texas. >> a supreme court case from a ten years ago now, i think, in which the supreme court said the government does not have the right to tell us who we can sleep with. there was a texas law that made it illegal for two adults of the same sex to go to bed together in the privacy of their own homes, and the supreme court rightly said that's obscene in a free country, and that is why i love the constitution because there are moments like that when really helpless minorities and individuals who can't expect the legislative process to respect their rights, nevertheless have a shield in the form of the supreme court saying, no, this line is something that congress and the states cannot pass. [applause] john: questions for tim? >> i graduated from monthclaire

state university in new jersey. my question is, if the constitution is the rule of law, the rulings for the government, and the government administers and enforces its own rules, how do we prevent them from breaking their own rules? >> well, that's a very good question. [applause] it's one that the founding fathers fought a lot about. in the federalist papers, james madison says in creating a government to protect people, it has to protect them from the government itself. now, patrick henry said at the ratification convention, no, no, it will not wonk, congress will do terrible things, madison said, have we then no virtue among us because if we have none, we are in a wretched position, no checks and balances protect us then. only the constitution has the meaning that we give it when we honor the promise, so, yes, the government has fallen away and ignored that promise on many occasions, but it's there for us to enforce as we go forward. [applause]

>> i studied communications, and my question for you is what do you think is the best method to reverse the policies created by the surveillance state? >> i think the best method to reverse policies is to elect new officials, but the best way to ensure constitutional liberty is secured is to enforce the constitution meaning sue, sue, sue, and i mean that sort of sell officially because my profession is i sue the government for a living. it's -- [cheers and applause] [laughter] it's the greatest job in the world. it's the greatest job in the world, and i do it for free. i don't charge my clients, and when you go to court and make your argument, and you insist, the constitution says this, now it's up to you, judge, or you, court of appeals, oh you, u.s. supreme court, to follow what's

written there. john: thank you, students, thank you, tim, and later in the show, begin that most of your fellow students are left wingers, we'll have a debate about the best way to argue with them, but next, this art exhibit, this picture of it, the sculpture of a sleepwalking man in his underwear is upsetting students at one college, and they demand it be removed. should it be? that's when we come back. [cheers and applause] [ male announcer ] this is karen and jeremiah.

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dhp john: your students should be careful what you say at college. you might get in trouble if you say the wrong thing, if you offend people. report is with the foundation for individual rights and education, fire they call themselves, and so why do students need fire? in college, students say all kinds of stuff.

>> that's right. students are saying all kinds of stuff, but on campuses across the country, they are taking a risk by saying things. it's gotten so bad that students are actually going so far as to censor themselves or demand that things on their campus be censored because they might make them offended or uncomfortable. john: fire says 59% of higher education institutions have policies that infringe on our first amendment rights. >> well, a few years ago, it was 7 a%. it's gotten better, but, unfortunately, we see these in policies all across the campus. john: you list the worst colleges for free speech, state university of new york, harvard, university of alabama. what did they do? >> well, this is a ridiculous case. we had a student, a journalism student writing a story for the school paper and hockey coaches, saying u how do you find your relations with the hockey coach to be, and don't worry, not

everything you say has to be compliment ri, and one forwarded that back to the administration and they actually got this student in trouble for calling it threats, and something they said on chasm pus, and not everything has to be positive. john: why is harvard number two? >> read the e-mails of 16 of the resident deans because they were trying to figure out who was leaking information about a cheating scandal at harvard. john: at brown university, ray kelly was prevented from speaking. >> you let him speak and make committee as part of the question, answered part of the program. >> stop suppressing people. [cheers and applause] >> reporter: he eventually gave up and left the auditorium, and this happenedded to me at brown. they pulled out my microphone cord. this is a liberal arts institution. they are supposed to hear all

sides. well, this happens because we train students k-12 and into college to believe that certain views so abhor rid they can want be spoken. it had to do with stop and frisk policies, and he came to give a speech what he knew would be a hostile audience and agreed to take questions, but that was not good enough, and so these organized heck leers for 27 minutes disresistented the speech. he only got a few words out before it went on, and for 27 minutes, he gave up and left. that is the very opposite of the environment we're supposed to have on college campuses. they were going to have a q&a session, and if nay octobered, they had the chance to prove him wrong, but they squandered that end dpaijing in that censorship. john: what's the deal with the sleepwalker statue? >> imposing a since of empathy,

vulnerable, and that's not how the students have seen it. they see it as a threatening image. it's an all-women's school, and say it might trigger memories of sexual assault who see it because it's a man who is not fully dressed. other people objected that they think it's whiteness and maleness are a real imposition on campus and called it discomforting. upjohn playing the role of the university, we want people to learn, to be comfortable. if it's an ugly climate, you're a big fat parasite lawyer and i'm screaming at you, how can people learn? shouldn't there be a civilized public square, especially in a university? >> well, civility is an important value, but it's not near as important as freedom, and the fact is, if we're training students, an elite liberal arts college, so afraid

of a statue they are uncomfortable to walk around campus, go to class, and learn, something is wrong with our level of tolerance for the different views. you're going to see, you know, white men, maybe in their underwear sometime in your life. you can't let that throw off your entire lifestyle. john: thank you, robert. [cheers and applause] coming up, we'll talk drugs and privacy, but next, are you students ripped off by your college? i think many of you are. that's next. [applause]

♪ john: welcome back to a special edition of the show from the students for liberty conference in washington, d.c.. now, i assume when you students graduate, you'd like to earn

money, get a job, but will you? maybe your college is just wasting your time and your money. kmele foster says you need to take responsibility. foster is cohost of the new fox business program "the indents," and you started in college. >> i started a small telecommunications consulting firm, spent ten years doing that. i did not, at the time, drop out of school. i went about one or two classes at a time, but i didn't borrow a bunch of money to finance my education. i went on from there to start two other small companies, one in new media firm that does film production and another, a retail and manufacturing company that makes camera accessories. john: just wanted to do it? >> i just wanted to do it. it's increasingly true your college degree does not prepare you for the world we encounter. we have a significant unemployment problem right now,

and a great deal of 245 has to do with the sort of policies we pursue as a country, but some of it is structural. there are people graduating from college who are getting liberal arts degrees and don't have the sort of skills necessary to actually compete in the job market. they are not entrepreneurial enough, and it's just the sort of thing that's not really being taught at most universities. john: in trying to be an entrepreneur, i find it's something that makes people understand the benefits of limited government. i don't know why you people became libertarians. i assume you didn't all start businesses, but people say, i had no idea this is what business people have to go through. >> interestingly, that's one of the things that make me most optimistic about the future is that people have a -- a pretty warm feeling about entrepreneurs in general, and more and more people feel they can be entrepreneurs. there's an increasingly free agent culture, and there's something wonderful that happens when more people have to make payroll, and when more people

find themselves dealing with government bureaucracy in the most ordinary and regular ways, whether it's running your payroll and having to deal with the various tax agencies you have to get records and numbers from, and it's doing everything exactly the same way for a number of years, and then finding out something was wrong, and having someone come into your office to screw around with you for the space of two and a half months. it's wasting 33% of your time in a fairly small company with ten employees to comply with various burdensome regulations. john: we need more people to start businesses to wake up? >> absolutely, absolutely. john june and yet colleges teach people, you list the fun courses. princeton has a course in getting dressed. >> yeah. [laughter] because no one at princeton could master that on their own. just couldn't happen. john: university of california san diego, god, sex, chocolate, desire, and the spiritual path.

>> sounds delicious and wonderful. [laughter] university of texas invented languages, clingon and beyond. it's amazing. what is college? it is folks paying 20-50,000 a year for an extra four our more years of adolescence. that's fine. it's nice. it's a bad idea to sub subsidizt with tack payer dollars and a bad idea to take out lopes in order to do that. john: thank you kmele foster of "the independents," coming up, what school doesn't teach you about personal freedom, like, should i be allowed to open this little case and do this? [cheers and applause] if you've got copd like me...

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john: welcome back to "stossel l u," and this is about perm liberty. it's limited to two top i ttinks. the nsa creepily spying on us

and illegal drugs. how many of you have never used an illegal drug? including alcohol when you were not yet 21? [laughter] some of you. all right. the -- clearly a minority. the editor of my favorite magazine says once your an adult all substances should be legal. she's from "reason" magazine. [cheers and applause] all drugs, every single one? crack, meth? >> i think legal drugs are safer drugs, and that's the best place to start with. your e-cigarette that you coolly smoked earlier. john: i try. >> this is a safer product than a regular cigarette. that's because somebody figured out how to make money selling us drugs that we want to consume. the people who make money on drug right now are people willing to operate in black

markets, and i'd rather see it all out in the light of day. john: this is really just the substitute nicotine delivery system, no bad smell. it's just vapor. >> exposes a weird puritanical element on the war on drugs. it's literally just, oh, you like that chemical in there that makes you feel good? we don't want you to have it. john: i think they are also saying if we allow this, this sends the message that smoking cigarettes is okay. >> right, well, i mean, i think ideally we find ourselves in a world where the message sent is using drugs, choosing what you want to put in your own body is your own business, but that we should hopefully let companies provide safer alternatives, provide more reliable alternatives to the black market drugs out there. john: all right. this is not what most of the time we're talking about when we talk about illegal drugs. we're talking about the nastier ones like meth that really hurt people, lots of people, and

well-meaninged authoritarians say we can reduce the amount if we make it illegal. >> and that's worked out so well so far. [laughter] john: they argue more of it. [applause] >> like this, you know, cocaine inventing machines, is it the american way? i get than an alarming concepp to people, but if you look at the huge damage that the war on drugs has done, the disproportioned damage to black communities, students' lives ruined, the costs are huge, and it's not working. heroin is cheaper now than it was 30 years ago. john: nsa spying. when the nsa spying story first broke, i upset libertarians by saying i was not that upset. i figured that my enemies already had all the information. i mean, my neighbor was stealing my e-mail of the year, google, facebook had the information, and i posted a list of a hundred things that government does that upset me more than data mining,

like our 17 trillion dollar debt, corporate bailouts, rules against school choice. i don't say all those hundred things are as important as nsa spying or as potentially dangerous. it's just that i can understand the government's reason for wanting to do it. people want to kill us. >> you know, tas true -- that's tru point. way we seize more and more information is coming out about how incredibly offensive the data mining is, we are seeing not a lot of evidence that it works. i mean, this 1 the old saw. if you sacrifice liberty for security, you get neither, and that's where we are right now. [cheers and applause] what i say -- i love it when google takes my data. they can have all my data. if i could give my brain to google, i would, because they give me something i want in exchange. i get ads that are for procts i want to buy.

john: personal safety. >> gives me services, but the nsa says i give you personal safety, or i might put you in jail; right? this is kind of the backstop. going the can't put me in jail. the nsa can. john: let me poll the audience, who agrees with her? [cheers and applause] who agrees with me? very few. i'm losing this. all right. your turn, students. >> i'm michael line, doing political philosophy at the university of arizona. i'm self-diagnosed with bipolar disorder and a host of medicines i take with a host of side effects, and i don't think it's anybody businesses how a drug interacts with my body, and i don't think it's beneficial to bring that to the light and so people understand sort of what drugs do for whom and how they interagent with what. it's my business. not anybody else's. to me, it seems sort of counter individualistic to propose that,

i want to legalize drugs such that the entire body public can understand them when it's frankly none of their business in the first place. that's my question to you, is how do you think that's cohe'sive with the individualism? >> i think individualists and libertarians should always favor letting knowledge be free. i think mmre information is good for individuals to make their own choices. [applause] >> i'm ryan. i'm a freshman at the op line high school, my virtual academy. how do we deal with the liberal bias in high school? there's a lot of it. i've dealt with it quite recently learning about franklin d. roosevelt, and it praises him like he's some sort of god, and he's not. he ruins everything.

[cheers and applause] how do we deal with that? how do we communicate liberty and real freedom in that into high school? >> the first part of the question answered the second. if you go to an online high school, you opted out of the system, so congratulations. [cheers and applause] >> i'm elizabeth francis, senior at kansas state university. what are some things that maybe audiences back home can take to help advance personal liberty and work towards changing public policy? >> well, there's actually a great campaign out there that's just asking people who have smoked weed to be open about it. successful people. i think that's a great place to start. you know, i have a job at a bank. i smoked weed. [applause] i have a kid. i smoked weed. [applause] john: thank you. coming up, most of you students

attend liberal colleges. you have to deal with students and professors who love big government. how might you educate them? a debate on that next. [applause] the day we rescued riley was a truly amazing day.

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♪ ♪ ♪

jjhn: if you learn anything at stossel u, the best type of government is limited government. these students understand that. why don't other people get it?

how can we convince them? kathy and julie say they know how. julie has a youtube channel called token libertarian girl. kathy is editor of a blog called sex and the state. which is a cool title. [laughter] kathy, you say to open other people's minds, libertarians should check their privilege. what does that mean? >> unfortunately, libertarianism is overwhelmingly dominated by straight, middle income, well-educated white men, nd so -- john: the overclass. >> right. how can we make libertarianism appealing to other people because the demographic is decreasing as a percentage of the population, get people not hostile to the ideas. there are certain things you can't know on the basis of who you are. in order to understand, for instance, discrimination, for me, men is like, i have to check my female prief privilege and

listen to the experiences. john: talk about things like making birth control available over the counter? >> absolutely. john: for blacks? end the drug war, allowing school choice, his hispanics, e-verify, needing permission from a government data base forever hiring anybody. >> a story from my own personal life, i was a prohibitionist because it never occurred to me that police used drug laws to gather arms squad teams and burst down doors and carry people off to prison and disproportionally people who do not look like me. john: seems like a reasonable argument to me, julie, and you don't buy it? >> well, for me, the main component of libertarianism is individualism. maximize freedom for every individual. what i've noticed with the privileged crowd is it's very devicive, negative, and it's class warfare and jealousy. john june this "check your privilege" expression is a

leftist college expression. [applause] >> i don't like the term "check your privilege" because i read youtube comment and say the request check your privilege," but never say, oh, you make a good point, i'll check my privilege. people get so defensive over it, and rightfully so. they make a predetermined judgment about the person. it's downright rude. [applause] john: it's not nice to divide people in categories. we are all individuals. >> absolutely. unfortunatelily, the reality is that racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia exists. without acknowledging real inhibitors to individual liberty for certain identities, we are hampered in the ability to truly, as in my experience, advocate for them effectively.

[cheers and applause] john: as i look here, i see disproportional white men in ties, even bow ties. they look like the over class. i would think it's a turnoff. >> there's a lot of white men here. it has more to doowith libertarianism being nerdy more than anything else to be honest with you. i'm a nerd myself, so i can say that. john: all right. this is all food for thought. audience, i want to ask, whose argument is better? who is more persuasive? let's have a vote. who sides with julie, not argue by sex, race, and ethnic groups? [cheers and applause] john: who sides with kathy and says we should? [cheers and applause] john: fewer hantsdz, more noise. both good points. thank you, kathy, joule le, and thank you to all of you for

attending "stossel u," that's our show, and thank you at home for watching. [cheers and applause] ♪ peter shumlin. chris wallace meeting washington's cutest celebrity, baby bao bao. crisis in ukraine. who's running the country? we'll discuss ukraine's future and whether it will ultimately decide with the west or russia with two leading senators. dick durbin, number two democrat in the senate. and republican kelly ayotte, a member of the senate armed services committee. and we'll ask our sunday panel whether president obama has badly misjudged vladimir putin. then, the nation's governors come to washington to tackle tough issues like immigration and