that's not how any of this works. [ male announcer ] 15 minutes for auote isn't how it works anymore. with esurance, 7 1/2 minutes could save you on car insurance. welcome to the modern world. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call. >> i will send congress a budget that creates new jobs in >> i will send congress a plan that will bring new jobs. >> how will we fay torfor? >> by cutting unnecessary spending. >> they never cut anything. this budget asks for billions more for things like universal preschool. >> it is right for america. >> more for infrastructure. >> you need to fund these projects. >> with already $17 trillion in debt. >> government spending only go up? >> this is federal spending per person since america began. >> started low left 5 percent of the economy. here is world war i.

here is world war ii. needs to used to go down after wars but it only goes up. >> pretty soon, we are saying how are we going to pay for that? to the trillions they have already spent? >> shovel ready is not as shovel ready as we expected. >> hey big spenders there's a better way. that's our show tonight. >> and now, john stossel. >> another year, another new budget another plan to increase spending this time by 250 billion does the new budget include a plan to prevent america's bankruptcy by addressing the biggest budget buster? no. not a peep about that. this budget is about spending more. investments the big spenders call us. that's ridiculous as congressman

make tomb yo. what is ridiculous? investment is good. it grows the economy. >> john, thank you for having me on the show tonight. big sfernds always call taking money from you and me and something they prefer they will always call it investment. that's not how i learned it in my 20er yaos of business before i wam to congress. it is worse than more of the same. it will take the debt $25 trillion over the course of the next decade. >> the president acknowledges that. >> that's right. that's his plan. that's his intended outcome. >> not a single proposal about the affordable care abilict and much they will spend entitlement programs and on top of that enormous tax increases which will reduce growth for the american economy. the best way to to get the

economy started again. you end upholding the can and begging for money. that's how america is going to find itself. >> it sounds afeeling loan guarantees. billion to promote efficiency and renewable energy. >> i have seen these renewable energy stories for my entire time in congress. i have fought against them with incredible energy myself. they tell you how great it is and they say i could make it even better if i could take the tax payer money. we shouldn't be picking winners and losers and most would be wasted with no benefit to the american people. >> do you think americans understand the debt? is i worry they don't. when i asked them about it they say things like this. the should government spend more to help people? >> of course. government should always be

spending to help people. >> i think the government should always be trying to help people. >> they just believe we can stand a spend and that's the way to help people. >> i also tell you we are out liar ars for the group you went to see. >> not everybody i ask. >> when i am back in kansas folks giet that can't spend mor than you take in. they are being responsible in their own lives government can do that, too. it is folks like me. they like those who shoot straight and tell them the truth. it is something they have to do less of. they have to make decisions that are difficult. when we do that great outcomes will happen. they will make good decisions throw the economy and get the nation back on the right track. we have a budget spending money like no nation has ever done in the history of mankind. >> thank you congressman

pompeii. >> thank you, john. >> we turn to school policy one from the right and one from the left. from the heritage foundation and covert from progress. policy wants couldn't get to congressy if you do. i am going to blow in wonk mourn. you disagree with me and the congressman. how did we get it wrong? >> when you are looking at a budget document like observe's we are sure it isn't going to pass anything given the congress we have. how we invest and how we pay for it. it is not like he is deciding to do all of this spending and won't pay for any of it. the a lot of this is paid for. >> with higher taxes. >> it is also not the tax rates or wealthy people it is targeted the money that multi national

corporations take overseas and they can avoid. >> assuming it won't work or won't bring the money in. what about the death going up to 25 trillion. doesn't that scare you? >> the difference between the debt we have and money coming in is fulling right now. it fell at the fastest rate. >> it is falling from the continue u-- stimulus blowout. >> the economy is getting better. part of the reason it got bigger during the recession that people weren't paying as much in taxes because they weren't working they needed more assistance from unemployment those things are getting better maybe not as fast but that helps improve our situation. >> she caught this the investment to pay for it with the new taxes. >> it will be over a trillion dollars again. >> it is briefly falling and my

age group expired. >> it is going to triple before the end of the decade we will se spend more than 800 billion more than what we will be spending on the domestic budget if we don't get debt under control whether you agree the government should make it or private sector should. >> to try to explain that you see 17 trillion by the time my age group is all retired. 325 trillion is not enough money in the world. >> when you look at what government promised and obamacare this new entitlement and what we expect to bring into the taxes that is what we are looking at. even what you are seeing is already more than 55 million for every american. >> what about that?

>> let's talk about that's what you talk about in the long-term entitlement. you have to talk about healthcare in this country. we pay too much in healthcare. i would say the affordable care act is trying to split the system. i think that's a healthcare problem. social security on the other hand is actually a really easy fix to make it fiscally sol vant the last 25 years. that's to lift the cap. a lot of wealthy people are not going to end up paying taxes on the income social security. we listed it it would be -- >> that's the risk. >> look how rich they are. >> you will bring in surplus revenue now which the government will spend like it has done in the past. if the social security trust fund held any real aspects we

wou wouldn't be talking about social security causing a problem for the budget. we know the government spends all of the money that's what would hap fpen if we lift the c. the government will go in right out the door. it won't go towards our priority. it wants to go toward basic research and infrastructure. things you think are important but special interests are driving this in washington. which is why spending caps are so porn the. >> i am skeptical of your think tank. it is something that is the reason the deficit went down in addition to the fact that it is a big blowout stimulus. big progress in that. economic havoc and suffering will ensue if they allow it to go into effect. i didn't see the chaos and suffering. as many as 600,000 children and pregnant woman could lose access to food and healthcare.

give me a break. >> actually there was quite a lot of suffering. a lot of government analeses were able to find short term ways to want that blow that we were expecting. a lot of kids were talking to kids when they were trying to get to work. i talked to domestic violence shelters who couldn't help women. a lot of it is low income. >> the reporters are all with you. >> local news covered it but it wasn't enough of a story. it is people who rely on head start. >> when the government is exaggerated? >> i think it wasn't necessarily exaggerated we saw real pain hit. we haven't changed that pain. we cut ourselves into this hole where we were starting a lot of

long-term things. they are not getting enough relief. they are going to continue suffering. >> is it enough? >> we are not getting it to these long-term priorities. we have to make decisions, right, about where we spend and where we invest. >> i think they kept them working first of all let's talk about how small they are they are 2.5 percent. automatic oo very small. >> if we are talking about the obama administration put out a study recently that showed us the program despite billions of dollars of tax payer money it sounds like a good program are we really helping those children or increasing the burdens government. it drags on the economy and grows opportunities which hurts low income americans the most. we need pro growth policies that

help everyone get jobs and get a true rate. >> let's talk about the deficit. that's a big one you both acknowledged that. politicians promise to fix that. the heritage foundation video this one from the senate majority leader from 15 years ago. >> he will expect by 2014 to have totally eliminated the debt. >> totally nim nated. $17 trillion. right? >> it's your guy. >> long-term predictions are hard. we are seeing much lower deficit than we thought three, four years ago. the picture changes a lot. i think that we are on much better fiscal footing than we thought we were going to be. the deficit is actually falling right now. >> terrible fiscal footing? >> the deficit is coming down. >> it is better than -- it is

still $600 billion. that is how much more we spend than we collect. >> thank you brice and romena. keep this conversation going on facebook and twitter. let people know what you think. >> coming up president obama said we should have preschool for all. i say it's a bad thing. you may not agree. next. when jake and i first set out on our own, we ate anything. but in time you realize the bett you eat, the better you feel. these days we both eat smarter. and i give jake purina cat chow naturals. made with real chicken and salmon, anit's high in protein like aow cat's natural diet. and no added artificial flavors. we've come a long way. and whatever's ahead,

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>> i asked congress to help make high quality pre- a >> i asked congress to make quality pre-k available to every four-year-old. >> preschool for every four-year-old for free. everyone i asked liked it. >> giving prekindergarten to every kid, good idea? >> i think education is goods, yeah. >> universal pre-k is great for the taxpayers don't mind paying for it. >> how moon nae taxpayers mind paying for it? universal pre-k creates single standard for preschool. that can kill innovation. government preschool clouds out private alternatives that might

be bitter. while programs lake head start sound so good to people the president's own education department studied it and found it didn't work. it helped but billions of dollars it made no difference. so now the president wants to spend more? i say that's crazy. nobel prize winning economist says i am dead wrong. profess professor? >> i didn't say you were dead wrong in everything you just said. i said that there is an he cecoc basis. i heard a previous segment of your program people were talking about investments. i think this is a case where if there were more evidence on behalf of preschool for disadvantaged children you will find the program more than pays for itself in terms of the return. both for the individual and the society. so i think there are government

programs that are investments like the interstate highway system or transcontinental railroad that link it together. there are investments that do payoff. i am completely with you when you say there's a lot of government waste, but i would say if people look at the evidence for other programs the way that we have looked for evidence on this program, then we would have -- we would go a long ways towards meeting some of your but i think this program we are talking about these classes of programs are probably surviving. >> you studied the preschool and concluded the investment high quality investment and preschool brings a return of 7-1. every government preschool supporter sites that 7-1 statistic now including our president. >> every dollar we invest in high quality early education save more than $7 later on.

>> this was a study of 58 kids, 50 years ago, and it was high quality. what are the chances that a government run education system is going to be universal high quality? >> there are several aspects to your argument that need qualification. nobody said it had to be a strictly government run program. the difference between government paying for programs and programs being run by the private sector i myself advocated a mix of public and private. i think you want to separate those two issues. i am complete which if with you if you want to engage. people have brought together these privately financed programs and shown some success. i just want to separate -- >> i don't think the president wants private financing. >> i think there's a lot of initiatives that can be supported at the individual

level. i don't think anybody is who is supporting preschool or earlier education for young children things that have to be strictly a government program. the fact is the scale of the program suggests government activity will be an important component. government in the sense of financing tax based support. the 7-1 figure includes the very kind of costs that the congressman earlier in the segment is talking about. it includes the dead weight loss of taxes. we include the fact that when you tax you distort the economy. the 7-1 survive even that test. it is a pretty strong test. i feel if you look at these returns, they will stand up a pr to pretty close scrutiny. it wasn't an article where my friends this wasn't an advocacy post. this was actually a article in economic journal. >> i accept it with good

research. but the preschool, the teachers went home with the kids once a week spent an hour and a half with the mom and the child. it is really intensive. >> it is no more expensive than what we found in elementary school. >> 9-10,000 dollars is what you find for the average students across the state. they spend a lot and others spend more. it is not leading higher. >> i am completely with you there is a lot of waste in government programs. what are the benefits and compare it to the cost. i bought a new car that car cost thousands of dollars. if i looked at the cost i would say what a waste of money.

i could be doing something else with it. >> that car also giving me services lets me drive let's me be here>> they have had preschool for 15 years the results lots of money spent nothing is better. we are out of time for this. thank you professor heckman. coming up, i should be happy, the president wants to give more money to me. {off-lin {off-line}

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the next time you nt a dvd, don't bother rewinding it. the way i see it, it's t next guy's problem. oh, larry. she thinks i'm crazy. mm-hmm. but would a crazy person save 15% on car insurance in just minutes? [ chuckles ] [ malennouncer ] 15 minutes for a quote is crazy. with esurance, 7½ minutes could save you on car insurance. welcome to the modern world. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call. >> however deep in debt america is now there's no doubt it will soon get much bigger because of me. well not just me but i am a baby boomer. my big generation is about to retire and collect social security and medicare. there is no pool of money to pay

for our retirement. they took money out of the paychecks for years. they didn't save it or invest it they spent it right then right that year there's no trust fund. now the government says my retirement must be funed by you. how can you possibly afford that. the politicians offered trillions of dollars moch more than exists. generation opportunity is justifiably upset by this. i-94 group calls it a war on youth? they paid into the system and they deserve your money. there is a war on youth being perpetrated. sper spending it on making my life better. >> can i have a wallet. you who i presume are not as

affluent as i are giving me money. >> it is an important place to be for my generation. you have 16 percent unemployment a third of us forced to move back in with our parents. they will make the next election toward the next generation. >> some of my generation is pour and they were promised medicare. >> they started restructuring and reforming the entitlement program to keep the promises we made. there are a lot of good policy proposals. >> like what, raise the retierments age? >> absolutely. you make sure social security and medicare are helping those truly in need. if we are going to help those truly in need we start putting in the next generation first. >> there are reforms.

>> we are going to have to take on retirements. i would like to do it in my first term. >> he was willing to at least reduce the growth of social security. >> it turns out making some modest modifications in those entitlements can save you trillions of dollars. >> on those he turned it back down, too. >> he backed away from the most modest of reforms slowing the growth and session soekt benefits by one-third of one percent. now he has backed away from that. we have big problems facing our economy and future generations. they are refusing to make the most modest reforms. >> i don't see how it's going to work out. people want more money to fight p putin pay for the military want to help poor people.

you are toast and you are committed to help my generation. it seems to be political suicide. >> years ago when powerful majority leaders they surrounding screamed at him. he had to drive to a gas station to escape. >> more recently paul ryan had a group that ran this more bid ad. >> bow, if you want to reform retirement you are pushing an elderly lady off the cliff. >> he was really getting thrown off the cliff and really getting thrown under the bus. it is 5 trillion there is not enough money in the world as you put it. my generation is being thrown

under the bus for the retirement programs. >> you hinted it was ryan's idea. and said we will take care of you encourage people to be dependent. >> they have led the way to opening a discussion. they help those most in need to make sure they are targeting benefits in what they really need it's a great start to the conversation. >> i will give you your money back. i am sorry. >> i appreciate it very much. >> when i retire it's going to come back to me. >> we will have his spin on shrinking of the military. ...so you say men are superior drivers? yeah? then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...safe driving bonus check? every six months without an accident, allstate sends a check. silence. are you in good hands?

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some brokerage firms are but way too many aren't. why? because selling thfunds makes them more money. which makes you wonder. isn't at a conflict? search "proprietary mutual funds". yikes!! then go to e*trade. we've got over 8,000 mutual funds and not one of them has our name on it. we're in the business of finding the right investments for u. e*trade. less for us, more for you. the fund's prospectus contains its investment objectives, risks, chargesexpenses and other importt information and should be re and considered carefully befo investing. for a current prospectus visit www.etrade.com/mutualfunds. john: there is one part of the government that will be hit w >> there is one part of the w

government that will be hit with big budget cuts. that's the impression you get from the media. they plan to shrink army to preworld war ii levels. here's a report from fox news. >> the ample me would shrink by 80,000 troops. the tank killer would be retired and the u2 spy plain would be replaced with an unmanned vehicle. it is the tuned down vehicle. the secretary of defense just says today's military can fight with fewer people because technology does more. >> what you are equipped to do how you are led, the equipment that you have, the modernization, the technology verses what army looked like in 1939 and 1940. there's no comparison. >> former congressman ron paul hosted the ron paul channel says

it is long over due. >> hello there. yes. >> you called for this for a long time. are you happy? >> if it would happen it would be the right way to go. >> rumsfeld was talking something like this a few years ago it never happened. now i hear that report said they were going to cut 80,000. i saw 40,000. unless the congress changes their mind. congress will. this is just an excuse to pretend they are cutting in one area for the purpose of buying more weaponry and changes and more of this military complex funding. >> they do admit they are going to spend $28 billion more. >> they are. they aren't really cutting anything. they want to pretend to down size the amount of personnel. my argument is they should down size the foreign tpolytheists

sealment they are sending a destroyer over to the black sea. they have to be safe we want to feel safe here at home. the american people are saying keep spending. they have just recently voted to give aid to you in the ukraine and where are we going to get the money? it never ends. that's why i predict it won't end until we have a declared bankruptcy with the destruction of the dollar. they are working real hard on that. >> yes, dick cheney says about these plans, cuts in personnel this is absolutely dangerous. lindsay graham says it guts our defense. >> i think they are smoking something. if we keep doing what we are doing who is going to invade them? who will lob missiles at them.

in the 1960s cold war was ongoing and i was drafted during the cuban crisis. i think that was a lot different than now. we don't have that. we are searching for monsters destroying the fight and looking for our next battle just so the budget would pass. somebody said once to me many years ago there would always be an incident about the time the budget comes up to make sure nothing ever gets cut out of the military budget. we have an incident going on. we have gone around and have to steer us how do be get the people to go along with it. it was to scare everybody. intimidate everybody. we were about to be attacked. sadam hussein was on the doorstep. hit by a nuclear weapon. >> why do the people keep believing these stories? >> people watch the news they see people being run over and they say we should do something.

putin is a terrible guy. we have to be big and strong. they need to not be so naive and believe everything they hear on television. my goal is to try to neutralize this as you do with your program you are unique in presenting this case in opposition of the spending. but i might say it is not as bad as it used to be. we have made end roads obama backed off and congress backed off. then again yelling and screaming by the war mongers he's a weak president. you know what? when you stand up against these special interests always lobbying for more war, i would say that takes a little strength. so we need to stand up against these privileged groups who want more spending, more war

problems. >> you wrote recently spending is also welfare. welfare for the well connected military strel complex. >> this is something that conservatives frequently forget. we have talked about welfarism and cansianism. no more welfare no more food stamps. take care of child healthcare any more. it is sacred you keep the american military industrial complex going even on weapons you don't need. that is cansianism. if you go around the country you find out you can't close this one. these are jobs. these are defense jobs. it is the reason the f 35 is being built in 46 different states. >> each has a reason to fight for it. thank you, ron fall paul. thank you for being such a consistent voice.

>> late err in the show countries that prospered their politicians actually cut spending. spending most persons love. >> where he building america's infrastructure, our roads, our bridges, our rails. when jake and i first set out on our own, we ate anything. but in time you realize the bett you eat, the better you feel. these days we both eat smarter. and i give jake purina cat chow naturals. made with real chicken and salmon, anit's high in protein like aow cat's natural diet. and no added artificial flavors. we've come a long way. and whatever's ahead, we'll be there for each other. naturally. purina cat chow naturals. they don't know it yet, but they're gonna fall in love, get married, have a couple of kids,

[ children lauing ] move to the country, and live a long, happy life together where th almost never fight about money. [ dog barks ] because right after they get married, they'll find some financial folks who will talk to them about preparing early for retirement and be able to focus on other things, like each other, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. it's just common sense. so our business can be on at&t's network for $175 a month? yup. all 5 of you for $175. our clients need a lot of attention. there's unlimited talk and text. we're working deals all day. you get 10 gigabytes of data to share. what about expansion potential? add a line, anytime, for $15 a month. low dues, great terms. let's close! new at&t mobile share value plans our best value plans ever for business.

>> they spend more on infrastructure? >> you have to spend a little in order in the long run to make a little more. >> spending on instru struk s- w infrastructure is popular. politicians promise that all of the time. >> rebuilding america's infrastructure. roads, our bridges o-our rails, our ports, our airports, our schools, our power grids. we have a lot of would, to do we have to put folks to work. >> put folks to work. what's wrong with that. plenty says economist ben powell. what do you mean? >> he's putting the cart before the forhorse here. one sign of an economic illiterate is someone who lists jobs as a cost of a policy not a benefit. it benefit is a good or service

they get. we will compare that to government job creation program. your show here right the value of the show is that hopefully it is in people's living rooms tonight and he joying watching it and getting information, too. the cost is you have people behind the camera here doing work. >> it's good i have a job. >> but you are doing something that takes you away from other activities you would rather be doing. you are hanging out with a boring economist on all days, your birthday. here i am you are a as well guy i like you but i have been away from home for 4 days my little boy misses me i would like to be with him. we have a profit and loss system that says the boss brings money by money to the house. >> back to infrastructure. >> we are building roads the wrong way, john. i don't know what they are doing with the equipment.

they hand the people's shovels. give them spoons. think of how much work they have to do on their hands and knees to strap together a little road. in the end the benefit of ow society would be the road not the work that was done. they have a lot more to talk about. >> if we want the infrastructure you justify it by arguing the benefits for the infrastructure. >> when obama talks about rebuilding the infrastructure he sounded like it was almost a new idea. every year. >> we are remaking the american sland scape with the largest new investment in our nation's insfrau truck tour. >> i am announcing a new plan for rebuilding and modernizing america's roads and rails and one runways for the long-term. >> so much of america needs to be rebuilt. we have roads and bridges to put

people to work as much as possible on the most urgent repai repairs. >> it is like a mantra, a chant. one different definition of insanity is doing it again and again and again and expecting different results. >> doesn't he have to build roads. >> we have the recon uks senator effort after a recession. they did tons of instraw truk ture projects to get out of the recession. we know we have a housing bubble. that means people have come into the wrong place with construction and related industries. we didn't have to shoot the industry or burn the houses afterwards. these types of programs prevent that needed recover he radio and reallegati reallocation. >> that never happened after the stimulus spending in 2009 turns out it was less than they

planned and unemployment rose from 8 to 9%. the president was asked, what happened? >> shovel ready was not as shovel ready as we expected. >> so infrastructure is important but why do we think government has a compare taativ advantage to infrastructure. >> the colonial turnpike system was larger than the eisenhower system that came into being. there is a a private company with private toll roads around france. they do it more efficiently. we have examples in the united states sr 71 in california that was a private road construction that was in the middle of a government highway. they brought us innovations with over head cameras that you don't have to stop with flexibility pricing in high prush hour times government couldn't do these

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>> the minute you walked in the joint ♪ i could tell you are a big spender ♪ 1 you like to know what's going on in my mind ♪ john ♪ hn >> i tell you what's going on in my mind politicians should stop the debates about whether to increase spending 6 percent or 7 percent. it is 6.8 percent. inflation is less than 2 percent. they must increase spending my triple rate of inflation? this is nuts. we should learn from countries like our neighbor to the north. years ago canada cut spending. real cuts, not the fake washington cuts. they say oh we plan it but now we will increase it 9 billion. we really cut a billion. i increased it nine. canada, however, made actual cuts. they cut agriculture department, 22 percent. fisheries 27 percent.

natural resources down almost 50 percent. why did they do it? because their politicians were more sensible than hours. they acknowledged their spending was going to eat their future. >> in the mid 90s the canada's finance minister said we are in debt up to our eyeballs. that can't be sustained. their debt devil is just as bad as ours is today. almost 70 percent of their economy. >> when i was growing up in canada people were said to work as little as 8 weeks taking the rest of the year off. >> they play hockey? >> oh, yeah. >> no work for most of the year. in 1995 canadian leaders cut unemployment benefits and other programs and as you see here canada's debt stopped increasing. they ran budget and surpluses that debt has been going down. >> things got better.

>> things got better the economy boomed in the 90s. 2k3w069ment waists most and so just cutting government spending and having that money be in the hands of people, it means it will be used more valuebly. >> although canada fired government workers unemployment didn't increase it dropped dropped from 12 percent to 6 percent. when people are free to spend their own money, life gets better. more recently during the worldwide recession saying president obama increased stenneding germany and sweden cut spending. sweden noern as the big welfare state. no, the opposite. sweden's economy grew faster than any other grurp. even the united states tried this approach once.

sort of when the cold war ended the first president bush reduced military spending and then a republican congress kept president clinton's spending in check. spending still increased but not as fast as the economy. the results, a balanced budget and a booming economy. when people are free to spend their own money life gets better. we know what works. it is not intuitive to people. well, not the normal. most americans see problems and just assume government must be the answer. that's why i wrote this book. when politicians say we can solve your problems, we should say, no he, they can't. individuals solve problems governments fail. the politicians don't want to hear that because they like spending other people's money who doesn't but it is not right. it doesn't even work.

that's what i say just stop it. that's our show, see you next week. >> this is a fox news alert. i am kelly wright in new york. there have been developments in the search for the asia air jetliner that went missing with 239 people on board. officials are spending ships to get closer look of some debris found on oil spots in the air. the debris described as possibly being a door to the aircraft. it is part of a multi national search operation underway in the south china sea. the ntsb and faa there were two americans on board