thursdays. ms. megyn is up next, i am bill o'reilly. please remember the spin stops right here because we are definitely looking out for you. there is breaking news tonight with new clues just coming in about what may have happened inside the missing malaysia airlines jet. reports indicate

>> to give you a better idea, take a look at this, the last known position plane at 35,000 feet. it's now thought it climbed to 45,000 feet well above the safe limit prior to that the plane believed to have made a sharp turn west then tease yended. from there, climbed higher again, then changed course doing a u-turn. headed away from the destination. three separate tracking systems

went dark. perhaps, they believe someone turned them off. from there, the plane appears to have gone north but they're not sure. it could have gone south as well. these are areas authorities are focusing now. joining me now is michael schmidt, thanks for joining us. and so the most significant piece of news appears to be ascending to 45,000 feet then descending shortly thereafter. walk us through what we think now happened >> as soon as it went off civilian radar it was picked up by malaysian military radar. a high that, for the air is very thin. oxygen masks likely would have come down and passengers could have died. so, you have it go up to 45,000 feet, then drop down to nearly

20,000 feet, then, it goes back up again. so as much as we wish this brought clarity to the situation it just raises questions of who is controlling the plane at this point? >> did it ascend before or after the u-turn? >> before. before. but the confusing thing is that it's moving back and forth. it's going west, going northwest. whatever. at the end of the day what you have is a plane that was going erratically in different directions and going up and down in ways a plane is not supposed to. this raises a question i was saying before who is controlling the plane at this point? someone that didn't know how to fly a plane? a pilot that was causing them to

do? it's kind of frustrating. >> communication systems appear to have been shut down. have they confirmed that today? these communication system dz not go out in a fell swoop? >> correct. correct. that is true. so that raises a question why did it go on to fly? if it had blown up the things would have gone off at the same time and plane won't have continued for five hours as it did. so i don't know. it's frustrating. >> it is. michael, thank you very much. >> ht of new information and theorys to get through tonight. our expert panel will be with me throughout the hour. we'll start with the pilot. on what on earth would make a plane go up to 45,000 feet. your thoughts on that? >> the first thing i thought

about when i heard that today is that it sounds strange as heavy as the airplane was that it would have gotten to 45,000 feet. have you to push the power in, bring the nose up but when they get up that high, and they're that heavy they don't climb very well. i know the -- it's supposed to be the top end is 41. it will climb a little bit before that but it would be struggling at that altitude. >> jb your thoughts on trying to get a plane to 45,000 feet? >> it's a 777200 er. so i can put the plane to 38,000 feet put power to it make it go to max speed i might give it zoom climb out of it. i might make 45 to become uncontroblable. possibly flame out both engines but the serious thing would be you're going to lose flight

control because the spread above that ceiling of speed is ten miles per hour between high speed stall. >> what does that mean? what is the bottom line? >> in other words that aircraft is fly soing high to stay in the air. the speed control he would have, let's say 500 miles per hour, if he went 505 miles per hour, he would have a high speed buffet. 495 miles per hour he could endanger that aircraft with a stall. if he did anything like pulling the nose up into a zoom climb for altitude, the aircraft would have become uncontrollable. >> your thoughts on that ascend. and that passengers would have been getting oxygen? >> of course. yes. >> is that too high? people suggested that would have been a maneuver to render people

unconscious. >> pressure system goes to a certain maximum differential >> when you hear 45,000 does that sound like an accident to you? >> this is poor conjecture, it sounds like a problem with the systems perhaps, anything could be possible but the guts that have airplane are the compartment down below about eight feet below the gallie door. and that is the electronic guts of the airplane. if something malfunctioned down there, fire, they'd have control issues >> "wall street journal" reporting tonight we went to air that it does appear that the circuit -- satellite was still pinging this airplane up to five hours beyond the time it stopped communicating yet they're now reporting in order to shut down that pinging, that communication you would have had to go beneath the airplane. would have required someone who

had sophisticated knowledge of the airplane suggesting the theory the plane may not have exploded but had satellite communication shut down intentionally over that sea. if that is true, for those of you guys who have flown these airplanes, i mean what does that tell you? your thoughts on that? >> actually being a fbi agent i'm sitting here and i'm watching these pilots because when i have won pilot nod his head that is one pilot's opinion but i've got all of these pilots making the same head movements. it's telling me there is some real validity to whatever that point is. i can tell you just from sitting here. you pointed out i definitely see some type of a drugg struggle happened. it appears that there is some type of a struggle.

>> before going to break just raise your hand if you think this is a criminal case. >> wow. wow. all right we're going to have more stand by, panel, thank you so much. was it sabotage? could terrorism be involved here? and we dug up details on what could be the two most-important people in this mystery. what we're learning about the pilot, moments away. in this season's most important fashion trend, the long shirt. designed to flatter, with playful hemlines and length for everybody. the new long shirt. visit the shirt boutique, only at chico's and chicos.com.

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zaha lots of breaking news in the last couple of hours in the mysterious disappearance of the malaysia airlines jet. "the wall street journal" and their reporter will join us in a moment. now quoting sources that say this now looks like a criminal investigation. my next guest believes the evidence looks like it was a hijacking. and that is not all. lieutenant general mcinerney is a fox news contributor, gentlemen, good to be with you tonight. why do you believe this is a hijacking? >> well, there are five data points, and now six as a result of what you all were talking about. but number one, we're sure that the air crew said when they were transferred over to vietnamese controls, they said through the melee, good night, and that is the last transmission we heard out of them. the next was the data point

number two, is the turn to the southwesterly direction. the third data point is the data reporting system goes out. update at 1:02 -- excuse me, 1:07, and then the transponder goes off at 1:21. so we have four clear data points that we know about, megyn, and the last four were reported by sources in the u.s. government. the fifth one is the pinging, of course on the satellite that we got for the next four hours. and that is the very interesting thing. and again that came from the u.s. source. and finally, this "the new york times" report that you all just got about the plane ascending, and descending, and finally the clearing that the pilots talked about. it was really maxing it out and

then going down to 23, i think that is why it went down to 23,000 feet, it started to stall. whether there was a fight going on, i don't know. >> general mcinerney, who would want this plane, and if it was a hijacking, do you believe it possibly landed someplace? >> i believe definitely it landed someplace. that, i do not know. i would look at all air fields, 7500 feet in length with a large ha ha hangar in pakistan and eastern tehran. i do not know why but i know they didn't go through all this activity in five hours through the end ocean, if they wanted to crash it they would have crashed it in the gulf of thailand. >> we know the fbi is involved in researching the background of the pilots. we know the ntsb is involved, as well. do we know whether or not any national security agencies are involved here in the united

states? >> well, i can't tell you specifically, but i know the u.s. government knows a lot more than they're talking about. and clearly, there is a lot of data that they're going through now and reporting through covert channels right now. but i'm confident the u.s. government has a much better picture than the malaysian government and the chinese government. >> wow. general mac, thank you. i want to bring back our panel now to join us, you're a former corporate pilot. how sophisticated would the person have to be, because more and more they're thinking about the pilots. how sophisticated would they have to be to

the pilot, perhaps would have known that? >> it's possible. they knew they report back they'd know that is going to happen. >> we're going to talk about the pilots in the next slot. this appears to be a criminal

case they're looking at the pilots and who was on the passenger manifest but why in this region of the world? >> there are two things off the bat. groups have been involved in massive terrorist attacks in the past, recently there is a big attack in western china from a group that is at war with the chinese government, considering themselves to be a separatist movement. they're east turistan islamic front. they wanted to bring down a plane two thirds full of chinese? that is the other part of this. you want to take a look at groups that would be interested in kidnapping people. >> but no claiming responsibility yet. sometimes groups take weeks or months >> i want to ask you about china. china keeps test taking

throughout the scene. saying look at the photos then said that is a mistake. that is nothing. then, today they said look here. on the eastern side of malaysia. we think there was a sea event then said our u.s. geological survey, no, it wasn't. >> we know malaysian government sup set at the chien yoez government for holding back information at this point in time. the chinese have a greater tracking than malaysians do but we have probably better stuff than the chinese they're checking them and there has been a lot of misinformation thus far. raising the possibility of them not look silly or foolish to the world or also they're hiding something. >> it sounds, i am just speaking from a pilot perspective that all of the misinformation or the red herrings maybe they're hiding something.

maybe this is someone somewhere involved with this whole thing that made this happen. i am beginning to be suspect on this. i mean, it just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense here >> it seems clear whoever is controlling this aircraft knew a lot about the 777 and how to control it the speculation is did the pilots have something to do with it? who on board might have? up next we're going to take a look at. that we have new questions about the malaysian government's handling of this and why malaysians may want to hide it. as focus intensifies on the pilot and co-pilot we'll take a look at the theorys suggest these men may, may there may be cause to investigate further. let's put it that way. that is next. huh...fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. yep, everybody knows that.

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this is a fox news alert. a official says the investigation has concluded that one pilot, someone else with nieing experience took over control of the jet. but there is no word yet on motive or where the plane might be at this moment. air traffic control lost contact with the jetliner an hour into the flight this information has not been confirmed by u.s. officials however, it is consistent with the view of several u.s. experts a malaysian government official saying the investigation is showing the malaysia airlines went was hijacked and steered off course. we want to stress this information has not been verified yet by u.s. officials.

now back to the "kelly files" already in progress optimize, in order to reduce your electric bill. >> now to the first officer, 27-year-old fariq hamid who just graduated to the cockpit of the triple 7. his family and friends say he is a good son, a great muslim, recently engaged. but this week, a passenger said on an earlier flight he invited her and another passenger inside the cockpit and flirted with them. that is not a violation here in the united states but when malaysia air found out about it, they were shocked. and it opens the possibility of the pilots allowing somebody else into the cockpit. investigators are looking into the pilots' psychological background and family backgrounds although we don't have evidence that anything was.

remember, the final words in the cockpit were all right, good night. what we >> pilot can turn off oxygen from the plane? >> he can turn off pressuration. at this point everybody goes to sleep quickly then, shortly that have you wind up dieing of

oxygen shortage. >> so you kill the aircraft ask continue flying it? >> correct. >> i want to talk to you. you think this is catastrophic aircraft failure. >> i won't discount possibility of a hijacker as an inadequate pilot. i have yet to hear anything from the malaysian authorities on what was on the cargo hold in that airplane >> now we're talking about lithium batteries >> or other hazardous material which most airplanes carry hazardous materials in small amounts >> how do you explain the transponder going off, hard bank left? >> if you had a detonation ask a partial, immediate did he pressurizing of the airplane but did not completely destroy the

airplane those, it could progress over a few minutes where you'd lose both of those depending on what's happening in the belly of the airplane. >> you're suggesting this may have been on auto pilot with everybody on board, dead? >> yes. yes. >> does anyone else here believe it's a viability option? >> it's a possibility >> there is an air worthiness directive that came out on the 777 last week. there is probably no way in the world malaysia would have flied with it. it warned of corrosion in the upper portion of the fuselage >> but why the shut town of the communications system? that seems like a red flag. >> the way the investigation unfolds is that you have many, many different pieces of many pictures. you get one piece you just have a piece of the picture. you want to try to find another piece you can put together with

that. once you do that, you start to develop leads that point into a direction. i'm hearing what all of these pilots are saying. what i'm concentrating on with this investigation is how many of these pieces can we fit together to start giving a picture? the picture we're having now when you take all of the hysteria and conspiracy theorys out of it is that something happened to cause a struggle and the transponders somehow went off. the thing about it -- >> let me pause there. before we go to break, raise your hand if you think there is a real possibility that people on board are still alive? a couple? a couple. all right. we're going to have more on that in just a bit. up next a "wall street journal" reporter who broke many of the stories, plus catherine herridge

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breaking tonight, brand-new details on the last known moves of the missing malaysia airlines plane. the malaysian military says they tracked the plane after it dropped off civilian radar. new information showing three sudden altitude places, first, while ascending above a safe limit then plunging 10,000 feet before rising again, then the plane appears to have sig -- zig-zagged. and joining us, he has broken a lot of news on this. andy as i read your latest report, the headline to me is they are sharpening their focus

on sabotage, and that there are strong indications that one or more people on the plane deliberately changed the course and tried to mask the location. explain. >> that is right, as investigators try to put together this puzzle, they're looking in a series of what looked like suspected deliberate actions by whoever or whatever group was in control of the aircraft. we already knew that in the space of five hours three signaling systems on the aircraft were disabled or stopped working. but now we're reporting on our website and in tomorrow's paper that it appears from the information the investigators have that after the plane stopped communicating with air traffic controllers someone put in manual commands for a sharp left turn which would of course indicate this was no accident at that point and somebody was in control of the aircraft. and secondly, about five hours after that occurred it appears from what the investigators have put together preliminarily, someone would have had to leave

the cockpit and climb down into the electronics bay underneath, on the lower level of the aircraft in order to disable the last signaling system and to stop all signals coming from the aircraft. >> that is huge, that is huge, wait, i want to ask you about that. thus far many assumed that the reason the plane stopped communicating in the second part of the journey was it went down in the ocean. now you're telling me they are doing further investigation and are pursuing the theory that in fact it was a manual disassociation of that last communication with the satellite. and this plane may have continued flying. >> well, let's be clear. this is one aspect of the investigation. it could be that the plane crashed after the last signal for whatever reason. but another part of this investigation is that someone would have had to disable that last signaling system purposely to hide its location as it continued to fly. it still would have had fuel and

tanks to continue to fly after that >> and if you ran this aircraft you'd need a long enough runway to do it. and so i think that it is possible. i think the likely scenario is that for some reason the aircraft ended up in the water but we don't have any debris. >> thank you very much, andy. great reporting again.

>> thank you. >> joining me now, vernon gross, good to see you tonight. i know you believe it's possible that whoever was in charge of the aircraft may have intentionally killed the passengerses on board why do you think that? >> they could have taken the aircraft sufficiently high the people would suffer hypoxia and be dead. national transportation safety board is interested one thing, that is what, not why. tonight there are discussions on why. and what we first have to find is the location. so leading towards finding that location it's been down now 4 or 5 days already. it is where it is. what we have to do is find it. once we find it, if we can get the recorders we'll learn what

and learning what, we'll be able the rest to fly. >> how credible do you believe this plane suffered a mechanical failure, period? >> i initially thought that, with the dribbling out of evidence but now i don't think that is true. i think the aircraft lasted beyond the point of which the transponders went off. >> what do you -- how closely as an ntsb guy would be looking at pilots and people on board? do we automatically go to pilots? >> yes the reason is not to indict them. but to find out how they're leading the aircraft to where we can find it because key here is still to find that wreckage whenever it is. >> you believe the crew is still alive? >> more than likely not is my position on that. >> vernon, thank you.

rick gi. l , how you believe someone disconnected that communications system? >> i'm a historian and familiar with the amelia earhart disappearance 76 years ago. parallels are incredible. you have an airplane assumed to be down at sea first then no where hessage is found then electronic communications was heard that indicated it was, in that case down someplace. i see all of this with that perspective. and i remember the mistakes made in the search for earhardt, aassumptions that government

reports were accurate. what i think were correct interpretations were abandoned. >> one of the things we're assuming is that this information about the pings are correct. and if that is not correct then this jet may have never veered off of it's course. >> here is the scenario. >> go ahead oochl okay. we take a flight out west. look what everybody is saying now. they look at the trajectory and said it must have crashed in the indian ocean. >> west. >> yes >> so they shut the system down. why did they shut the system down? it could be they wanted to establish a flight path everybody would think they're on, destable that system, go dark, turn around ask come back to land. >> that is a viable solution based on what has been reporting. everybody bought into it. >> let me ask you this.

go ahead. >> okay, those people were trained to turn the airplane left, right and hit buildings. this is incredible. this is tom clancy stuff to be able to go down stairs, disable equipment i have to go through a check list to find, to be able to land an aircraft in a remote spot none of us can seem to find? where are you going to hide a 650,000 pound airplane? >> if the plane is headed eastward and never made a u-turn why are we sending a destroyer to the western -- indian sea? u.s. government appears to believe it's off the west coast of malaysia. >> the united states has, we have very good intelligence gathering capabilities the straits of malaka is a important area for maritime security >> but we believe it. isn't the answer we believe the jet did make the u-turn?

>> i don't think we'd does patch a destroyer on a willy nilly chase i think information indicates something happened out in that direction. they're just not having those guys rage around the ocean to build sea time. they're going to start looking here is the thing. if that airplane is in the water it's got an emergency locator and flight data recorders have pingers on them we build navy ships to hunt submarines and submarines to hunt submarines which are very, very quiet. if there is something down there, they're going to find it. >> up next what the united states military is saying. why the search area is moving and more on breaking news someone may have disabled a last communication system five hours after the plane went dark. bhap when it comes to good nutrition...i'm no expert.

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>> satellite continued and this indicates a jet was still operating the satellite data does not provide altitude, speed or location. investigators hope the satellite tilt information will marrow the scope of the search the 1-800-house saying thes president is getting regular updates >> he's aware of this and has been briefed on it and knows where things stand he's very concerned about the suffering of the families.

and and looking into that flight satellite link went dark with u.s. officials offering a number of scenarios today, the jet crashing and the power being disrupted 370 going into the ocean or the possibility it landed. now tonight we've heard a fournl possibility from the "wall street journal," megyn. >> thank you. >> you're welcome >> less, you're saying this is like a spy movie if this pilot controlled the airplane, went up, down, kept it below radar. what do you think happened then some >> i go back to my original statement. i think something mechanically catastrophic may have occurred these guys are trying to handle it when the system is disabled, you're losing conroll of the airplane >> over five years? what's happening? >> i am not sure i believe that that airplane has been flying five hours the information has been so

fragmented i don't know what to believe at this point. i'm sure my colleagues feel the same way. >>w3 i think that was -- after e initial what? >> whatever it was, detonation or whatever happened to that airplane >> how did the airplane turn? >> any number of things could have happened in that, when that airplane starts coming apart partially. so the controls are impacted. >> when into that computer, that weren't part of the initial flight how did they get in there? this airplane hit a specific weight point coordinates. lat and longs how did it get in there if they didn't program that into the flight computer? >> how does an airplane ever start to fall apart at 35,000 feet that is going to be a debris field down there.

you're going to have fields which have parts of them. that is 600,000 pounds of airplane you're going to be raining aluminium. >> you do believe it did fly five hours west? >> yes. i do. >> if this is terrorism, and terrorism is unconventional warfare. if this is terrorism we're seeing an evolution if terrorism this, is something not done before. >> good point. >> but unconventional tactics from degrernds as well. if someone landed a plane that large anywhere in the world, i'm from arkansas, if i trip in the woods it's going to be on you tube, we have source that's will identify this plane on the ground. >> the old paradigm used to take a plane full of life people and negotiate with the government. you have chinese nationals they're more worth while with you alive.

why take down this plane? jihadists have not gone after these types of flights. >> do they just want an area plane that badly? >> maybe had a bomb on it they said we'll detonate this unless you make this turn. >> it did not make -- >> kidnapping is