if you're deed oteed off, we wa know. ms. megyn is next, please remember the spin stops here, we are definitely looking out for you.

systems, may have shut down simultaneously. not 14 minutes apart as we were told last week. that time lapse of 14 minutes was important. to the theory this is likely not one catastrophic failure but appeared to be someone on board purposely shutting off contact one system as a time. tonight we'll go to experts for answers. throughout the hour i'll be joined by a former national transportation safety board board member, a fbi agent as well as a former deputy assistant defense secretary and

an aviation expert. michael, thank you for being here. >> there is a break here if the paper goes online witness we'll keep you standing by throughout the hour. i want to start with this latest news as documented by the times and other papers about now this, reversal of the malaysian airline saying we cannot be sure these systems were set down sequence yilly. >> they initially said little and now don't have a lot of credibility. and because of that, they're going back and forth. whenever this happens, the facts

are difficult to know in realtime. and i think until saturday we didn't hear a lot from them. now we hear from them, they're going back on different things i don't think that gives anyone confidence. >> you broke news last week about the flight path. this information now at least opens the door to more consideration of a catastrophic mechanical failure. if systems went down at once, they're not saying they did, but you reported that after, after the communications systems were shut down, this plane did do a u-turn. it ascended 4500 feet and continued flying westward 5 to 7 hours. has any of that changed? >> well, to the point of america cal failure, if there was, why is it that the plane went back

and forth over malaysia? why did that happen? if it had blown up why didn't it continue in one direction out to sea? so the plane moving back and forth as it did so severely, i think led investigators and malaysians and u.s. officials to believe that someone was controlling it at the time. >> so the reporting continues to be strong consensus is that this is what? >> that there is foul play here. i think that they all sort of feel there was foul play here. interesting thing is that if you talk to american law enforcement officials they think there was not terrorism involved here.

so that sort of lends itself to 1, 2 people wanted to bring the plane down and sort of did so. this is not traditional terrorism. if this is terrorism, there hasn't been a lot of chatter since then. so it's sort of puzzling. and there is unfortunately, only so much we know. >> michael, thank you. we'll keep you standing by. want to bring in our panel now. joining me on set former ty board member. and an airline pilot and a former fbi special agent federal air marshal and served as a navy s.e.a.l. les you're on the panel friday night saying you think it's mechanical failure. once again, the point michael raises if everything stopped working at once, how do you explain the u-turn? the satellite pings they're saying was this jet.

and they're talking to the national transportation safety board and the faa to the military authorities out there in malaysia saying this yet was heading westward over malaysia. >> i'm not sure that you know this data has been erroneous. i contend ta now we know the system was systematically shut down. now we're told it could have happened after. >> correct. but if there is something occurring down in that, as i explained last weekend electronics and engineering department -- >> which we have video of --

>> very good. >> that system matticly could have started destroying systems as i mentioned -- >> it's like a cancer on board the airplane. >> the crew noticed something going wrong. they started a check list. >> that is it. and you know who knows? i don't know everything down stairs nor have i been down stairs in four years i haven't been down there more than twice >> how, how would there be, if you accept they're right, the plane did a u-turn and flew west five hours how can you explain that? >> here is a speculation. here is one. the smoke began. they had oxygen masks on there was confusion in the cock part they're starting a check list they thought was appropriate. as that airplane started to shun

shut down, the flight control systems were reacting. and then, electronic check list, which they depend upon might have shut down completely. they had to refer to maybe a standard paper check list which may be difficult to contend with. and all of this is unfolding before them in a problem that seems small at first to make a bigger issue. that is my contention. >> it flew five hours on auto pilot? >> it is possible. who knows? it's electronic airplane. >> let's bring john in. >> i don't like that theory but i'm open to anything. >> why don't you like it? >> the cascading failures don't go down that sultry. the way the airplane is discorrecting itself, however, if there is a fire, all bets were off. >> what do you make of the time line?

the way this went down was at 1:19 a.m the co-pilot signed off with a casual all right. good night. that is i guess unusual? that sounds casual? >> it is. you know i often to control when i say good evening, good morning. >> you don't make anything out of it? >> absolutely. i think there is a space between all right and good night. i think there is something that we missed oochl so at 1:19 at night, all right, good night. then at 1:21 a.m the transponder went off. and then, at some point, the communication in the belly of the airplane was turned off. does that time line tell you anything? >> it tells me that the data that we're receiving from the malaysian government is all over the place. >> what about the fact two minutes after he signed off the

transponder turned off? two minutes after? what does that suggest to you? >> it suggests someone reached down and turned it off. >> all is calm. there wasn't chaos on board that we can hear. does this suggest one pilot was involved? would two minutes be enough time for a hijacking? get through doors get pilots under your control? >> there are two sides to this. we strongly suspect that many malaysian flights are not very disciplined in the cockpit door procedu procedures. we in the west are very disciplined witneh it >> the pilot could still grab the communication system and say alert, right? >> right. >> that system wasn't shut off. we think. we don't know. is that the system that allows the communication by the pilot? >> it's a separate radio.

you get the transponder. >> do we know in the communication system that let's the pilot talk to air traffic control was shut down? >> no. >> there is another piece. there was a mechanic on board the flight. >> right. a flight engineer on his way to china for assignment. he would know what is down stairs and where things are down stairs. but that is another piece... >> is this referring to this flight engineer that worked for exec jet? he works for smaller airplanes it's a well, great reputation around the area. i don't know how he would understand a triple seven. >> you're saying he can fix a go cart but not a boeing 777. >> we're going to have more

according with john gillian. this mystery putting one of our best allies in the middle east on high alert tonight. we're live in jerusalem next with why there are threats about this missing plane. >> and get a look at a belly of the aircraft, not this one but one like it. we're expecting a big piece of news from our lead guest in moments. stay tuned. iling everyone my vacation photos, i'm saving a ton of time by posting them to my wall. oh, i like that one. it's so quick! it's just like my car insurance. i saved 15% in just 15 minutes. i saved more than that in half the time. i unfriend you. that's not how it works. that's not how any of this works. [ male announcer ] 15 minutes for auote isn't how it works anymore. with esurance, 7 1/2 minutes could save you on car insurance. welcome to the modern world.

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because when people talk, great things happen. breaking overseas tonight, growing concerns this this missing jetliner is being converted into some kind of weapon of terror, one of our best allies in the middle east is stepping up concerns that it may now be a target. leland? >> reporter: megyn, the israelis have always been at the

>> in terms of where the airliner could end up if it had been hijacked could have landed. countries like india. pakistan, bangladesh there, inside of the indian ocean f refuelled from there, easy to fly nonstop to israel. and this is the key part. it was flying from there west towards israel the country it would be flying over. iran, saudi arabia, jordan all hostile to israel. if israelis spotted this jet headed towards it's area they couldn't send up planes owe intercept it until it reached israeli air space. from that point it would be a

couple miles from jerusalem to tel aviv. no one is saying this is a likely scenario but one they're planning for. as one security official told me they said until the plane is found we have to view it as a phone shall weapon. >> wow. thank you. >> want to bring in peter crooks and our panel back with us now. peter let me start with you on this. your thoughts on the likelihood of israel facing a threat because of this? >> there has been talk of an act like this. that could be perpetrated against israel so they're alarmed only thing i think is interesting about this is because the spectacular nature of the plane disappearing that it raises everybody's alert level. so the terrorist plot may not have been the best but this is something that could happen more logistics involveed and

more planning. they realize they'd have to face a very tough israel air defense system. within the realm of possibilities. >> this is videotape that we've obtained we believe two pilots going through security. you can see a brief pat down. peter i want to ask you. if you're going to hijack a plane why not do it in someplace closer to israel so you can just go over and attack israel? >> there are plots that are foiled megan. if it's a terrorist plot and idea of nieing with big bags of fuel into an israel city city. maybe it's not the best plan out there but it is possible. >> what do you make of the reports that came out in testimony that al qaeda had been

considering a plan to take over the cockpit of a plane and hijack it. >> their related part of al qaeda said there malaysians involved if they had problems getting into the cockpit they can use one of the shoe bombs. so thr members of al qaeda with malaysian ties some some in syria, some, elsewhere. and there is a number of plots out of kuala lumpur. >> i want to bring in the panel. what are the odds?

one saying malaysia is 60 plus percent muslim. >> that is a good question and gets into the politics of the whole thing i'm not sure. >> how do you look at that as an investigator? >> as an investigator i can utilize those individuals as tools oochl do you think the government knows what happened? >> no. the titanic went missing in 1912. we didn't find it until 1985. what is interesting is that soechy games were not that far back. there was chatter about a shoe bomb at this point. >> the question is how could it

keep flying? we've got news about evidence that the plane was diverted. no accident. more right after the break. ♪

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it's difficult to explain. the first turn that this plane took off of its path was done by a computer system on the plane. not manually by a pilot. >> let me stop you there. what does that tell us? >> that computer system can only do that if someone on the plane or shortly before the plane took off, programmed that into the plane. so that means that whoever can this had to have known what they were doing with the plane this, is not just someone on the plane who grabbed control of it. and took it in one direction. whoever was on that plane that caused to it happen had to have programmed it into the plane or, it could have been programmed in before it took off. >> so there is no question in your mind according to your

reporting that the u turn was deliberate. that it wasn't a catastrophic event that led the plane to turn. someone made a decision to turn that aircraft? >> look. it's very early you know, this is what we know now and it could change. but what this shows is that whoever moved this plane and why did this turn is because the plane did it itself only if someone reprogrammed it. this information was relayed back to the ground before everything is turned off. >> what do you mean by that? >> no. sorry the information on the ground. this came from data received on the ground from the plane. that system was turned off around the same time the plane lost communication with the

ground oochl michael, thank you. as an national transportation safety board investigator what does that tell you? >> you have to explore every piece of it. how it got in there. what the data scene said. there is probably more information on it. that one voice communication >> it was all right, good night. >> voice people are going have to do sound spectrum analysis on that blank piece and see if they can hear switches it's amazing what folks can pull off with voice recorders. >> les, what do you make of them? >> off the tape. >> that they can hear themselves, right. >> what do you make of the "new york times"? >> this is accurate of and

forgive me i like to keep it simple. as a pilot if you want to mick a u-turn do you turn a wheel? >> i'd do that. >> if you, you program it into the little computer pad that sits next to you. that is just telling auto pilot what you need to do? >> exactly. >> what he seems to be reporting only an experienced pilot could do that sure >> do you asglee >> i agree but i'm going somewhere with this this could have been a diversion way point. a point, imaginary point in the sky on a route they may have been putting in a diversion way point. >> you're saying catastrophe strikes and realize they need to get off the route.

so may have been pilot saying something is wrong >> if you had a catastrophic event occurring would you not turn using control wheel? >> it depends on the situation, john. if it's serious enough, yes. but we don't know what they were facing at that time. >> they're saying the way points punched foo the plane were ones that would keep it off of the radar and undetectable by certain monitors is that possible? nefraious way points put in? >> if you go into that you as part of the preflight you go through the route and verify every way point along it. if there is a way point in there that doesn't look correct --

>> they're going to know it. >> i want to ask you about the security proceedure for pilots. how carefully do they get checked? with this breaking news that a computer set the plane, well, perhaps manually programmed that this is a deliberate turn what does it mean for the investigation? how deeply can their past be dug into? judge napolitano is here. and we'll take you into the belly of the airplane who knew how to disable one of the critical tracking systems on this airplane? # weekdays are for rising to the challenge.

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plane took, the u-turn back across malaysia was programmed in to an on-board computer. someone basically told the auto pilot to reverse its course. this as we get conflicting reports about those critical communication systems and when they were shut down. trace gallagher picks up that part of the story. trace? >> and megyn, let me just start from the beginning, beginning with the transponder, which stands for transmitter responders. in the triple 7, the transponder is right between the co-pilot and pilot and console. there is a radio dial that goes there left to right just like one in your car and flips off easily. there is also a backup transponder that turns off just as easily. then there is acars, aircraft transmission and reporting system. then there is one on the console. acars sends out a text message every 50 minutes, like a twitter

message, conveying fuel, if toilets are working, now pilots can even use the key pad to send their own text out. some of the acars can be switched off by turning off the vhf, but to dismantle it, you have to go down, remove the circuit box. and as you can see here there are a number of circuit boxes below that airplane. now if the transponder and acars is shut down why is the plane still responding to satellite pings some several hours later, well, sat car has an antenna on top of the plane you see right there. even if no information is being september o sent out when the satellites send out their pings, it is not engaging, saying hello, i'm here. when you get into your car and your blue tooth is trying to find your cell phone it may not

connect. but the bluetooth certainly knows the phone is in the car. it is the same type of situation for that satellite hitting the airplane. >> all right, trace, thank you. part of the breaking news tonight we had reports that investigators were closely checking into the pilot, the co-pilot and the passengers. specifically any passengers with flight experience. but there may be some limits as to how far the investigators can go. judge napolitano is with us now. judge, they seem to be focusing on this pilot and co-pilot for understandable reasons as we now get videotape of them going through security before they boarded. do they have a presumption of innocence? >> yes, they do, the malaysian legal system is generally based on the british legal system which ours is based on, so the rules are generally the same, people are presumed innocent beyond a reasonable doubt. the government can get a search warrant, the standards are the

same. probable cause for illegal activity. now, we have more than enough for a search warrant of the bank accounts and residences of the two pilots. in fact we know that the two search warrants have been executed. they looked at homes and found intriguing things. the more they find, the more they can go back and get search warrants and continue to look deep. the passengers are not fair game unless there is some evidence of some untoward criminal activity. >> or there is a flight engineer on there, but no allegations he did anything wrong and yet wouldn't they be looking at the credit card activity, the day of his connections? yet wouldn't they have the right to do it? >> no, they don't have a right to do it. because having flight experience is not a sufficient trigger to get a search warrant. but the combination of odd behavior by the plane and by the pilots is enough with respect to them. those who are on board with

stolen passports, obviously, they're very game. but just because a person has some knowledge or experience doesn't trigger the ability to intrude into their private lives, certainly for passengers. >> there is still a legal threshold, judge, good to see you. good fto see you. mike, good to see you, what do you make of this breaking news from "the new york times"? >> it would make sense to me, there are plausible alternatives already brought up. the real important thing here, the research is done by people like trace gallagher, not the officials in malaysia. so i think what i see here is something that is very, very messy. and i would have to say that something bad happened in the cockpit of that airplane and they did something to steal a 777. what they want to do with it, i don't know. >> when you say they, are you working under the theory that it is this pilot or co-pilot or

somebody else on board? >> no, the "they" is somebody on board. >> it made this u-turn that was intentional, we're being told by "the new york times" tonight. it was not some things were out of control, the auto pilot did it. someone told the plane to go back. that happened. according to earlier reports when it happened the plane suddenly ascended to 27,000 feet, and suddenly descended to around 23,000 feet and followed a path that was almost undetectible for five hours. when you hear that as a lay person you think that somebody is up to no good. and what am i missing? >> you're not missing anything. i think somebody clearly was up to no good. it is like what was just said about the cockpit door discipline. anybody could have broken into the cockpit door.

it could have been a plan like 9/11. it was a little too smooth. looks like the pilots might have been involved. the question is what are they going to do and why did they do it in the first place? >> do you buy this theory now, of pilot suicide. even peter king said this could have been a pilot trying to kill himself. my question to peter king, if that was the case, why didn't he just take the jet down right away instead of doubling back. >> i doubt he is calling his insurance company and getting his affairs in order. i think somebody wanted an airplane that could carry a whole lot of fuel, for whatever reason, not necessarily this, i'm afraid of that thing finding us. >> last question before i go. need a quick answer, what do you believe happened to the passengers on board? >> nothing good, very honestly, i don't want to say anything. but i would fear for the worst. >> mike, stand by.

in the meantime, new video showing the pilot and co-pilot seen through airport security as the investigation begins. the investigation begins. [ male announcer ] covergirl preses

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breaking tonight, moments ago, "the new york times" reporting right here, the first critical turn, the u-turn the plane took was previously programmed into an on-board

computer. meaning it was intentional. william la jeunesse spent the day looking into the pilot and co-pilot. he is here with us. >> reporter: as you say, megyn, they are looking into the pilots, the ground crew and finally, the cockpit. let's start there. pilot zaharie shah. married, father of three, a grandfather. a home flight simulator. was it used to fly low as someone suggests or teach someone else how to fly the 777 in case the co-pilot was incapacitated? his pilots, also in question, shah supported democratic reform and had opposition to a political leader who hours earlier was sentenced to five years in jail. here is a picture of that yshah co-pilot, fariq hamid, the report shows the two did not request a flight that day.

hamid had just graduated to the 777, he was 27 years old. it was his voice heard, saying all right, good night. now, he invited two blondes into the cockpit for an hour of smoking. one of those girls called the visit friendly but sleazy. >> at one point, they were so engaged in conversation, he took my friend's hand and said your hand is creased, you're a very creative person, he commented on her nails, stuff like that. >> they are hearing a ping from the flight data recorder, the one thing we do know that we can say this, everybody on board this plane was both a possible suspect and victim. and right now the investigators are trying to separate the two. >> william, thank you. all right, so getting back to the pilots. if they had wanted to mesabasab

i guess when it is the pilot doing it. this supermarket and steal it, what they're saying is, there is no way it went west towards pakistan, pakistan said they didn't see a plane, india didn't see a plane and therefore we should believe that. >> megyn, you never want to let a ridiculous theory lead the investigation or any theory. you want to let the evidence lead it. you let the evidence lead it no matter how ridiculous the evidence is. if it is real you have to follow that. and that was a big telling thing like that, that the pilots didn't request to fly together. so now it could put one of those pilots in there as the actual person that kicked this off. but as the plane turned it went through the up and down scenario. it started to go north. that was the corridor it was going. >> it could have been towards pakistan. >> to say that it would be odd to land a large plane on a military base in pakistan?

that is not odd. and people probably wouldn't even notice that, especially if it is still dark. >> and are we supposed to still be trusting pakistan's word? >> no. >> you investigated these actions, do you think we'll find it? >> we'll find it eventually. >> if it crashed in the indian ocean, the third deepest ocean in the world? >> we'll spend the money to find it. >> would a big wing continue to float and for how long? >> well, you know, the triple 7 has a fuel tank in the vertical fin, and if that was not closed off it could float free. >> would baggage wash up on shores miles and miles away, months from now? >> yes, easily? >> what about over land? any possibility if this thing landed in the jungle in malaysia, would we still find it? >> i think so. >> you think so? would that make it harder or more difficult? >> it is all difficult, all

difficult. >> isn't there a bacon on this plane they should be listening for, why haven't they been communicating with the baceacon? >> the beacon sends off a signal -- you just have to activate it. >> has it gone off? >> it probably has not gone off. >> why hadn't it gone off. >> they dropped the panel from the ceiling -- >> which means what? >> it still could crash and not activate. crash but not -- tear up, crash meaning if you tried to land it in a small field and tore the gear off -- >> if it crashed in the ocean would we be hearing this? >> no, it doesn't travel once it gets in the water. >> okay, more right after the break,

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we're back now on our breaking news, and i'm joined by our aviation expert. i want to ask you, finally, whether you think that if this thing had been intentionally diverted by somebody. maybe you turned and it was flying five hours and so on. we are waiting to figure out its location. is there any way of doing it? >> well, you know, we used to spy on the sovietis and them on us with satellites. it is possible. what they wanted, if they wanted that airplane, they wanted something with a lot of fuel capacity. so they want to do something with it.

and it's hard to hide something that big. it's not up on blocks in newark. it's somewhere in that region. and that means they're going to have to do something with it. >> there was a report out today, i think it was reuters, whoever did it would have had to have nerves of steel given what this plane then did. do you agree? >> oh, yeah. it's right out of a james bond novel, nerves of steel to know what to do. and he had to have obviously e coes cohorts helping him out. >> what do you think, nerving of steel? >> yeah. >> but we've got china saying they didn't see anything. we've got pakistan saying they didn't see anything. you'd have to have a lot of people willingly concealing, wouldn't you? >> i'm not qualified to answer,

but i can't see the crew doing this. >> in the dark of night? what kind of pilot would you have to be to be able to do that? >> reckless. >> last thing i want to ask you. flight simulator in the home of the pilot? >> no big deal. my wife and i own an airplane together. it's something we enjoy doing. >> be honest, how about letting the ladies into the cockpit. >> on the ground, i would do it. >> but when you see that guy doing it. >> i don't make a big deal out of it. with the security lax if it was done in flight, yes, absolutely. >> none of the pilotis we've ha were not phased. we'll be back plus more, hannity at the top of the hour. even the mention of the 4 or

500 feet, we've been hearing that for days now. and to what i have found or the malaysian group does not have the capability of that kind of altitude finding on the radar they were using. i don't want to think about the alternative. i don't even know how to answer that. i mean, no one knows how long their money is going to last. i try not to worry, but you worry. what happens when your paychecks stop? because everyone has retirement questions. ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. to get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today. so our business can be on at&t's network for $175 a month? yup. all 5 of you for $175. our clients need a lot of attention. there's unlimited talk and text. we're working deals all day. you get 10 gigabytes of data to share. what about expansion potential? add a line, anytime, for $15 a month. low dues, great terms. let's close!

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if you develop these, stop chantix and see your doctor right away, as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor if you have a history of heart or blood-vessel problems or if you develop new or worse symptoms. get medical help rightway if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. use caution when driving or operating machinery. common side effects include nausea, trouble sleeping, and unusual dreams. my quit date was my son's birthday, and that was my gift for him and me. [ male announcer ] ask your door if chantix is right for you. all right before we go i want to ask my panel. quickly, raise your hand if you bri believe this plane was hijacked

by somebody? and if it was the pilot? and if you believe it was mechanical failure? there remains the question of the poor passengers and the crew. we'll see you tomorrow night at 9:00. i'm megyn kelly. this is the kelly file. detriment. we'll det 's also being reported that the co-pilot who gave the lag communication to air traffic controllers which was by the way, all right, goodnight, that that came after the aircraft's reporting systems had been turned off. joining me now with the