any one does to try to stop them. >> it is that time again. they want your money. >> americans who can afford it should pay their fair share. >> work is fair these people say we should all pay. denmark is becoming president first country in the world to impose a fat tax. things they don't like >> you can buy a food that has a certain several of fat. >> we could pay less if politicians didn't give spoegs breaks to certain people. >> you would be surprised at the size of the sneaky test.

it adds a lick little. >> so many taxes i need a break. >> tax and time that's our show tonight. >> our tax system is awful. the tax code is unreadable. this is the beginning. the regulations that go on total 75,000 pages. some taxes are necessary. there is a cost to got of tvern. we have to spends hours figuring out what we owe. the taxes are moso complex and

most take it to an accountant for help. it makes it lessl healthy and less fair. throw out the tax code and start over with something simpler something understandable. steve forbes has tirelessly pushed that idea for years. you failed miserably. >> we are still trying to persuade every april 14th he we get more support. there is a growing consensus and they will be on the table in 2015. >> even democrats realize the code is undefensible. they quote-unquote on the idea if you de clutter the code you can touch tax rates across the board. there's no group in america other than maybe a lop iest w-- quest wes -- lobbyist that defends the code. >> why flat?

flat means everybody pays after a certain point. poor people don't pay income tax and everybody pays the same. that's not the most complex part of the code. >> if you have more than one tax rate you open it up for them to clutter the code again. >> they made a stab at simplification two tax rates 15 and 28 percent. 40 years later there's a third rate and off to the races. we have had 14,000 changes since 1986. with the single rate everyone knows if you are doing something. today you can make a change in the code six months later people may discover what actually happened. >> you say if we have a flat tax. this would help charitable giving. >> but i would lose the deduction? >> americans don't need to be brought bribed to give. when americans have more they give more. charitable giving in terms of a dollar roughly two mers of gdp

was that way before the income tax. in the 1980s when the top cut got down to 28 percent colleges went per zerke. not only did charitable giving go up the rate of growth goes up. when people have more they give more. even though they say i get a deduction for this. they give anyway without it. >> sure they do. it's been that way go back to the 19th century. we have always been doing this. >> you say it would encourage home ownership. not that i am certain that is good, but real estate lobby is wedded to the mortgage deductions because they say that encourages home ownership. if you get rid of that it will hurt home ownership. >> you have lobbyists in washington they have to have a rational. when people have more they will buy a house. they don't need to be bribeed by the government to do it. we have had growing home ownership in this country for a long time. when you try to simulate it artificially you get the

disaster we had several years ago. >> in your ideal world with a flat t be on a postcard. >> fill out one sheet of paper or a few key strokes if you are on your pc or apple. >> a couple countries have this. astonia has a flat tax of 21 percent. the form is one page long. takes five minutes to complete. >> but astonia is a new country. >> over 30 countries around the world. vladmir putin put this in in 2000 it made ours look simple. within a couple years re new -- revenues doubled hong kong even though dirt poor 60 years ago now booming. >> you are fighting history pushing this. the first -- >> existence is fighting history. we are the only invented nation on earth.

it was part of our tradition to fight what everyone else does. >> i look through all of this stuff how four-pages including the instructions today it's 176 pafrjs. the tax rate one percent in today's dollars if you make 500,000 dollars. six percent you made $11 million. come a long way. >> went berserk wlm from the beginning because of the first world war. they discovered income tax is a money machine. they are not going to give it up eedz i easily. let's go have a simplified code. it would be a huge step in the right direction. it revolves around this piece let's start all over again. to show how stupid is dave camp who is leaving the house of representatives he tried to simplify the code using the existing code the books you have

there and 1,000 pages that shows how bad this thing is. it took # 1,000 pages to try to simplify it. >> if it wasn't well received he is leaving congress in frustration. i am two scared. i hired bob. he's my accountant. i don't want to have to have an accountant. i don't want to spend time talking to bob, but i have to. i have to pay him, what, several thousand dollars a year? >> there is nobody's business. >> probably true. what a waste? think what i could do with the money? i could have delicious stake dinner 200 times a year. >> i could take this cruise ship all of the way from new york to venice and back. >> or better yet i could buy goods in the world. i could buy two habitat for

humanity homes or pay three kid's tuitions at the catholic school. >> i could go on torturing myself about the good things i could do with the money. instead let's go to the sides of the tax cut. former new york times reporter wrote a book called divided the perils of our growing income and inequality. he wants to address that with higher taxes on rich people. will mcbride doesn't want to do that. >> i don't want higher tax rates. the thing you talked about with steve forbes it's not the rate that makes it. you can do that on a postcard. it is all of the rules unreadable that allows people to make money they don't pay taxes on. the wealthy people can live tax free. i have shown this in my books and elsewhere from the law. >> not many do.

>> what, live tax free? how. >> warren buffet the year he released his tax return he made 64 million. you think the return was one thousands of his wealth he's the worst investor in america. >> he is not tax free. he pays something dividends that have already been taxed. >> warren buffet's income in the tax system is a tiny portion of his actual wealth increase. that is how we need to fix the system. the reason it is thick is it has rules that does not recognize income for tax purposes. >> you encourage certain good social behavior. >> let the market take care of that. >> the tax system is broken. there has always been loopholes people flipped from the system. the biggest problem is it up

pressed investment and savings. they have a flat tax which is getting away from this idea of taxing income. >> what is different is tax investment doubling, tripling quadrupling as our income tax does. that is the problem. we are suppressing investment through the multiple layers in tax. the corporate tax, dividend tax, capital gains tax, taxing the dollar three times. >> david on the left worked for the new york sometimtimes he's socialist. >> the tax foundation you represent the rich people. where is the difference? >> we are concerned about

workers and the poor and general welfare and the thing is, the best thing for the poor is to stop the excessive tax burdens. >> wone thing the current tax system protects existing wealth and holds back strivers. if we want them more prosperous it is the strivers. things like no estate tax you end up with 18th century france and we know how that ended. >> are you saying donald trump or schriver is strivers. >> what about inhair hans? >> inheritance tax is not a big one in tax revenue. >> what people have done to avoid the estate tax involves enormous things. it is to back up the income tax.

past of the problem is the political power you are see can is focused on protecting existing wealth not promoting the creation of new wealth. if you have integrity we would be much better off on the long run. >> by that the drivers i absolu absolutely buy that. with income there's the payroll tax and we have income taxes kicking in at different levels and loopholes built into that. we need something comprehensible like the flat tax. >> this isn't complee hencible? >> not to me inan expert. >> incentives for politicians. what are the incentives to do this? what is the incentive if you have to raise tens of thousands

a week to address a problem in a way we are talking about with whatever minor differences we have. >> if you have a special break then people have to come to you and kiss your ring and beg you for special breaks. they are powerful. >> thank you will and david. to keep the conversation going the twitter hashtag is tax time. am coming up to lower their tax bill thousands of americans move to different states. we will tell you which ones. next how government uses this book to manipulate us. >> the federal government provide tax credits, subsidies in order to help the individuals and families purchase qualified health insurance plans. when you sat down to dinner with anticipation, not hesitation.

when you didn't dread bedtime because of heartburn. when damage to your esophagus caused by acid reflux disease wasn't always on your mind. that's when you knew nexium was the prescription medication for you. because for over a decade nexium has provided many just like you with 24-hour relief from heartburn and helped heal acid-related erosions in the lining of the esophagus. and now the prescription nexium you know can be delivered directly to your door with nexium direct. talk to your doctor to see if nexium is right for you. there is risk of bone fracture and low magnesium levels. side effects may include headache, abdominal pain, and diarrhea.

if you have persistent diarrhea, contact your doctor right away. other serious stomach conditions may exist. avoid if you take clopidogrel. for 24 hour support, automatic refills, and free home delivery, enroll at purplepill.com. it's the nexium you know, now delivered. but add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance... ...and we'll replace destroyed or stolen items with brand-new versions. we take care of the heat, so you don't get burned. just another way we put members first, because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪

john: i get tax deducts because i give a lot to charity, i have a retirement account. that lets me defer some taxes. taking deductions makes my taxes more complex eso a waste money on an accountn 't and have to do more record keeping.

we should focus on another way that the deductions are not a good way. >> what the tax >> government wants to protect our values. what the tax code is doing is trying to choose our values for us. it is telling us charity is good. >> protect our values? i thought it was to protect our persons and properties and estate. >> not trying to steer us in a direction of a particular goals of particular ideas. so they decide i need a solar panel so they are going to give me a tax credit. they want me to buy a house they are going to give me a tax tee dux on a mortgage. if i pay cash i don't get any benefit. >> most people don't pay cash for a house they have decided if people own the houses they will take care of them and build communities that's better mofor america. >> maybe itthat's true. it is not the government's business to dictate my behavior.

>> no, they are not dictating but encouraging. >> they are doing it by use of coercion. if i don't do what they tell me buy a house they take more of my money. there's a gun behind this encouragement. >> look at this from the real estate lobby. >> there's 8,000 dollars in here. >> the national association of realtors wants you to take advantage of the first-time homebuyer tax credit. >> uncle sam winking. there's benefits from this. there's a pressure group behind each one of these deductions that are benefitting directly>> association of builders. >> there are more of these deductions because they are more and more pressure groups that get formed just for the purpose of getting these tax deductions.

>> take my biggest deduction. pension. government decided we want to enocc enencourage people to save for the future maybe we won't have to defer them. >> they don't ever shrink back. that's never whether i save or not at any given point in my life should be my decision free of government coercion, free of government involvement. yes, saving for retirement is a good thing. everybody should do it. i don't need government to give me an incentive to do that. i want much lower taxes i will have more money to save. >> you say you don't need this incentive but americans say what is government for except to steer people back. >> this is when government starts steering people into the direction of what they should eat what they can consume when they can and cannot buy or make.

what is a good retirement plan or bad retirement plan. these are the freedoms we are losing in america every single day as paternalistic government now starts managing our lives and manipulating our behavior. >> take charity then. i don't see how i lose freedom. i freely choose which charities i give to. and every buck i give to central park conservancy is $0.50 less than i give to uncle sam. >> absolutely. given the tax code go crazy with it. i am less charitable i am paying less taxes. why is the fact that you are more charitable change this. >> charity is good. >> who says? >> we should explain. as i know -- iran institute and iran said? >> i am not against charity. it is just how important it is we might disagree. but the point is again,

government has no role here you want to give it to charity, great. i want to invest it rather than give it to charity, good for me. it is not government's job to decide if i should started a business or give to charity. there are a lot of reasons why i might postpone giving to charity or investment. i may be start ago new business. >> any politician who challenges them hurts himselves politically during the last presidential election mitt romney suggested tax deductions for wind power accessible. then wind pour advocates ran this commercial. >> within a few weeks ago i got laid off by mitt romney and his friends from congress didn't want to eliminate tax credits for the wind industry. >> he wants to take this guy's job away. >> what you don't sees the jobs not created elsewhere because investment is flowing into a

ridiculous industry like wind power that really is so economically inefficient it makes no sense rather than into industries that make profits that can grow, that actually create lots more employment than the wind. this is the problem we get when the government micro economy and our lives. they are lousy at it they can't do it because they can't replace the value choices. we can be left free to do it. >> given they run ads like that can you blame politicians for chickening out? >> you have to blame politicians. we don't elect them to chicken out. this is the way the systems are built. they are built to perpetuate this and expand it. you are going to see more of those kind of -- and when republicans get in they give it to their favorite groups. when democrats get in they give it thouo their favorite groups. >> coming up taxes on sin.

did you sin this week? also how the tax code screws the little people.

john: want to start a small business? >> want to start a small business in it is easier than ever today. the internet allows us easier access to potential customers. but business professor brian brenburg says what makes it harder is the tax code. it kills little guys. >> what do you mine because the code applies to big guys and little guys equally. >> it does apply to big and little guys equally. big guys have more resources to throw at those piejs than hall eyes do. take ge i wouldn't be surprised they have a thousand people sifting through this. >> in the year 2011 they had

about 1,000 employees just doing this instead of producing light bull ps. >> in theory everybody is looking at this in the same time in every way. >> they work it to their advantage. the national small business association pole businesses and found they spend more than 80 hours a year on federal taxes and two work weeks and payroll taxes two workweeks. >> we are talking about a month of work>> they are trying to look at the tax code. you are not spending time improving products investing in your employees creating jobs. >> you can't have a tax code which says okay we will give small guys a break ge can afford

it. >> no create a level playing field. the point is not to put spamall businesses add a disadvantage. you want to create the opportunity to compete. create a tax code both can comply with and work with. >> what are the odds with that they are giving rewards for favoring certain people. the last fiscal cliff bill. we are out of money but somehow tv and film producers they have a special credit owners of nascar racetracks wind turbine makers. >> the odds aren't easy. the odds aren't good. as you talked with steve forbes before people are at this a long time. one thing we haven't done is framed this debate in terms of some of the words or languages that are popular now. ... when i look at this i see institutionalized inequality and opportunity. when you are connected this can work in your advantage. if you are the small guy you are

at a severe disadvantage. if we think about inequality in the united states why not start attacking it by taking this thing down from 75 pages or something everybody can deal with. >> i should say the 75,000 is beyond this that's the ex lan nation. >> the movement is to add more. >> right, yeah. >> read the paper it's a little adjustment tweak here. >> what is really so tough about that, why did this is really an issue is actually today it is probably more than ever easier for the average person to be an entrepreneur to start something. line li {line10} it allows you to ship a product and build them and collect money an easier way than ever before. we have the opportunity to encourage entrepreneur ship and we throw a tax code at entrepreneurs don't even try. don't even try. that's not what we want to do.

>> you hear from people who say, i got the internet great new stuff but because of this i am not going to try? >> i had a conversation this afternoon. not that i am not going to try but i am going to get into it and realize quickly i don't know how to handle this. you do one or two things. you either pay somebody a lot of money to do it for you>> or you buy this complicated software. >> or you try to do it yourself. the truth is or you roll the dice. i am just going to roll the dice and hope nobody is checking this all that closely and i can go on with my business. do you want to put people in the position where they are rolling the dice? i don't want to put people in that position. i want them thinking about their business and creating great products and jobs for people. >> thank you, brian brenberg. coming up a new way to understand how high taxes persuade some people to pack up and move somewhere else. persuadeed some people to pack up and m

[ male announcer ] this is karen and jeremiah.

they don't know it yet, but they're gonna fall in love, get married, have a couple of kids, [ children lauing ] move to the country, and live a long, happy life together where th almost never fight about money. [ dog barks ] because right after they get married, they'll find some financial folks who will talk to them about preparing early for retirement and be able to focus on other things, like each other, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. it's just common sense. iespecially when it's miralax. re can love their laxative. it hydrates, eases, and softens, to unblock your system naturally. so you have peace of mind from start to finish. ve your laxative. miralax.

>> you are stuck with your federal taxes. in america you have to pay. but america is having 50 different states means you can avoid some taxes if you live in the right state. that's a good thing, because it creates competition. if your state does something stupid you can leave, take your talent, money elsewhere. millions of people do. travis brown invented a clever way to document who is moving where. here it is. we are looking the at the movement of americans and their income measured internal revenue service tax payer data files since 1992 and 2010. >> we can do it from this period and show from where and to where americans reason voting with their feet and their wallet. >> these red states people have

gone to florida. >> the biggest winning state is the sunshine of florida. a gain of 10,000 minutes of every day average for the last 18 years. there are nine states like florida that do not penalize that work. oot line state as a group over the 18 year period have collected over $166 billion from if the other 41 states. the reverse is true the nine states with the highest income tax rates have lost nearly 150 billion. nearly 19d billion has been going straight out of new york and florida.

live free or die in new hampshire is their motto. they show a gain in the weather climate of 3 and a half million. >> it is knotted just about weather. california seems to be red here. >> they are receiving california income and taxpayers that have chosen to leave the state and nashs like nevada are showing a gain of 18 billion ten of which are coming out of places like lake tahoe. the biggest winners florida montana, south carolina, vermont. biggest losers alaska, new york, washington, d.c., illinois, maryland. >> if i look at the total tax burden as a percentage of you are income and tax states are giving their income away and loan tax states are doing better and better. >> people watching can download their own version of this by

going to how many walks, the web site. >> you can have this information for your city, county and state available on the smart phone or surfing this map. >> i like it that states now advertise their tax advantage. florida and texas ran these ads. >> 0 percent personal income tax. that is right. zero. the best place to get away from it all is also the best place to get it all done. gr grow your company in florida. >> you are fur tired of prifl louse litigation get out. >> texas a calling. >> they named other states, bashing other states. >> if you took the book of rules and regulation in new york state 49,000 pages. >> we have no state income tax. >> i love it that he points out

the greed of my state's politician. >> it makes sense why he is there to recruit and get more business. >> states likes texas started running this ad. >> new new york is open. open to innovation. that's why new york has a new plan. dozens of tax free zones across the state. move here, expand here or start a new business here and pay no packses for ten that is not jus. it is a terne tax free zone. >> this is a classic case of 103 million in promotion for in a kind of ad. it will requires you to be selected by your state government as a winner in a particular zone. there are a lot of conditions that would apply. >> you have to be near the state university of new york and other private colleges retailers are

excluded so were law firms and power plants. looks like they are saying pay that one. >> you might have had enough time to move upon beat austin. >> they are going up to florida. most of the green is down here. >> we see evidence for texas, tennessee and florida they do very well. take a state like wyoming where it is still snowing in this environment we have a gain of 1.4 billion. the state is a digital prairie. if you want a job in south and north dakota they are doing well in upper tier great plain state. >> the weather was lousy there. >> not if you are a pheasant. >> this is you breakdown

county-by-coun -- won tee by county. >> chicago a big part of the 29 million loss in states like illinois. you can look at where that state loss is by going to cook county. that allows you to see how much responsibility a city may have or governing their state correctly or incorrectly. >> thank you, travis. you can download this inspect it yourself. coming up, sin text yax you wan smoke or eat junk food? different states have different plans for taking your money. that is next. her valuable assets were staying. and selling her car wouldn't fly. we helped sydney manage her debt and prioritize her goals, so she could really turn up the volume on her dreams today...and tomorrow. so let's see what we can do about that...

remodel. motorcycle. [ female announcer ] some questions take more than a bank. they take a banker. make a my financial priorities appointment today. because when people talk, great things happen.

john: want a beer? you must pay extra f >> want a beer?tra f you must pay extra for it because addition to sales tax states impose a sin tax. when i bought a bottle of whiskey i had to pay an additional 2 bucks for the sin of jack daniels. you smoik cigarettes you must be really sinful. this carton costs only 60 bucks more because politicians tax you to save you from yourself. what's wrong with that?

don't we want government to discourage destructive behavior? no says nick gillespie. >> if i want to hear about sin i will go to church or an anthony weiner press conference. when i turn to politicians i want fair laws that apply to all people and all products. >> who cares what you want? the excpoliticians decided test better for the country if we are not all drunk and smoking cigarettes. >> there is a case to be said they have extra costs in healthcare when people get sick with emphysema and we have to take care of them. you can see clearly identifiable link health conditions that get pushed on to other people. when new york city charges $5 in sin tax they go far beyond that.

they are high for consumption but they raise revenue that gets spent on all sorts of things. >> as fewer people smoke politicians are more eager. >> that's because people who are fat, people who are smokers, they are minority groups and they have to rach tchet up the costs. >> the tax has a cost, too. most cigarettes sold in new york state were sold illegally. >> there were 57 percent of those used were brought in illegally in an unauthorized way. >> we have a new form of organized crime. >> going back hundreds of years

exercise tax on smoke and booze. >> most americans like the idea of elected officials manipulating us in a good way. for a while we had luxury tax, on private planes or cars over 30,000 dollars. >> this -- nothing under scores how sin taxes are often symbolic guesesture gestures. they become luxury during recessions. this happened in the early 90s where people are like okay let's go after luxury yachts thurston howl the third let's stru them by taxing them on that. that reduces the demands for yachts and the people who make yachts are not billionaires and you have lots of people thrown out of business. same thing with the rv's.

>> they lobbied it and killed it. >> in colonial american you could taxed heavily for dressing above your station if you wore fancy ribbons. leather boots they were taxed heavily. that is not what america was about. we live in a secular society we don't have an official category of sin in the hole cal arena other than what politicians do. tax politicians and the laws. put a tax on new laws. >> when george washington was president they passed a tax on whiskey. alexander hamilton said when people drink too much they doing this they regret. >> alexander hamilton was right drunk edgeness often leads to

bad behavior. there was a which is tee rebellion against that. i think a government would be better if it ks at thatted everything but consulting adults a -- consenting adults are agreeing. >> there was a tax on tea. colonial protestors protested taxes on teas but not quite on slaves in the same way. >> moving to present day after the newtown tragedy, newtown lawmaker proposed a sin tax on violent video games. >> even though there is no serious research that shows playing violent games cause it. >> not even serious research. >> scapegoating goes on. when there's a problem throw a law or throw a tax at it. video gamers are demonized

group. >> colorado is excited about the money they will get from marijuana. >> that is the upside of sin taxes cash strapped governments always want more revel new. they are willing to say something like maybe it's not such a bad thing that adults can legally smoke pot instead of going on the tax market. people are happy to pay the tax for a while at a higher rate. i think it should be taxed the same as milk essentially. but that is one of the ways sin taxes can be a powerful agent for liberalizing policies. >> next how complex taxes like what we have in here invite politicians to use this to punish their enemy. jake and i have been best friends for years.

one of our favorite things to do is going to the dog park togher.

setimes my copd makes it hard to breathe. so my doctor prescribed symbicort. it helps significantly improve my lung functio starting within five minutes. symbicort doesn't replace a rescue inhaler for suddesymptoms. with symbicort, today i'm breathing bett. come on, boy! [ female announcer ] symbicort is for copd, includg chronic bronchitis and emphysema. it should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol increase the risk of death from asthma problems. symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. man ] now symbicort significantly improves lung function, starng within 5 minutes. and that makes a differen in my breathing. tod, i'm hanging out withy best friend. talk to your ctor about symbicort. i got my first prescription free. call or gonline to learn more. [ male announcer ] if you can't afford your mication, astrazeneca may be able to help.

but add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance... ...and we'll replace destroyed or stolen items with brand-new versions. we take care of the heat, so you don't get burned. just another way we put members first, because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ john: done your taxes yet? when you think is legal may not >> do your taxes yet?al may not be careful. what you think is legal may not be. good reason to be confused because who can understand this stuff? three examples an orthodontist suggests someone clear correct aft an over bite. they say they are not deductible. when a psychotherapist recommended piano lessons the court denied that.

a court recommended swimming the cost of the pool and upkeep are deductible. a doctor told a fat tasht to exercise the court ruled the home gym he got is not deductible. finally if you own a junkyard and you want to get rid of mice you can deduct the cost of food you give to fairly cats. but you may not deduct the cost of a watchdog to guard your home office. gu get the difference? that's what you get with garbage like this. let's junk it all and start over with something much sim builder. that would just address the income tax. they get almost as much money from sneaking taxes you may not notice. you and i pay them all day long from the moment i wake up and turn on a light. >> i pay more i brush my teeth. license my dog.

>> so many taxes. i need a drink. multiple and complex taxes not just because they take more money from us, because they give the ruling class power to punish their critics. we learned about one campaign to do that. >> internal revenue service practice of targeting conservative groups. >> they would look for key words like tea party or patriot. >> police found out about that one but how many other times has this happened we don't know about? complex tax rules are an invitation to the ruling class to abuse its power. our protection is simplicity. if everyone understands the rule it's hard to manipulate them. of course even better protection would be smaller limited government too late to wish for that? i hope not because that's why we

do this show. that's all for tonight. see you next week. ten seconds. tonight on huckabee. what we found out was disgusting. his 15-year-old daughter taken away by the government. but she is not the only child case mismanaged by the common wealth of massachusetts. a closer look at the department of children and family services there. and after being the face of the disastrous obama care roll out. cathleap sebelius goes out with a glitch. >> and in chick- fil- a. chicken out!