tv The Kelly File FOX News April 14, 2014 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
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sententious. they are misguided. thanks for watching us. ms. megyn is up next. remember, the spin stops here so we're defini you. i'm megyn kelly live in new york and tonight, showdown on the western front. >> the west has now been won. [ cheers ] >> only on the kelly file a look at the ranchers that fought the law and won. what this means for future fights with the feds. plus, tax day tomorrow, is the irs getting ready to steal your refund? a new call for answers on outrageous behavior. and congressman elijah cummings had enough of the irs hearings. >> i am a member of the united states of america.
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i'm tired of this. >> and now we may know why. a shocking report, it all starts on the "kelly file" right now. breaking tonight, exclusive new video from inside the western ranch showdown as violence nearly i results in a showdown with the government and tonight, we're learning that this fight may be far from over. welcome to the "kelly file" everyone. i'm megyn kelly. the war between a rancher, supporters and the feds on the other side first gaining attention last wednesday with this tasering video. by saturday, it had come to a heads. cowboys and average americans and militia members on one side coming face-to-face with heavily-armed agents, federal and local. the rarcnchers determined to ta back mr. bundy's cattle seized by the government which had two court orders on its side. one way or another the ranchers were determined to get the
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cattle back however, and take a look at our exclusive video. >> let's talk. if they do this, not going to hold them back. >> hey, listen, i'm currently in negotiations to find a peaceful resolution here. >> push these people back up off the gate but it's only going to be bundy and his son. >> no, no, it's the people. you need to leave -- >> i'm telling you -- >> no. >> it's hard to deescalate when you got guys with helmets and m 16s. >> i understand. >> there you can see an e get and the ranchers and their supporters in the final minutes before this conflict was resolved to some extend. for a few minutes, it seems like this thing is going to end very badly but then.
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>> hey, hey, release the cattle in 30 minutes and let's give them that chance. the west has now been won. [ cheers ] >> cheers breaking out and the cattle were later released, some 400 of them. for some, this is a victory for the little guy. for others, it's something different. william reports from bunkerville, nevada, william? >> reporter: let's talk about what comes next, megyn. the bml clearly made misjudgments here. the reaction to the wednesday video when they pushed the woman and tasered the guy. people came out of the wood work to that. that was one mistake. number two, the difficulty of getting some of the cattle out of this in the canyons and so forth because they obviously gave up, if you will, surrendered on saturday when all those people turned out. they had basically about 400 cattle as of seven days.
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now, i'm told they paid a company out of utah, basically, a wrangler 966,000 for a six-week contract to go get these cattle. that's number one. the cattle were supposed to be sold in utah, but the sate of utah livestock band manager refused to accept those cattle. so one of the reasons they were underneath that overpass, i am told, is because utah would not accept them to go to the auction house to be moved. now, the blm says it basically got out of this because they didn't want any bloodshed, safety of their employees and public. they said they will pursue this administratively and judicially. on the bundy side of things, what's he has next step? clearly, he needs a lawyer to advance his case in the court. he's going to look into damage to his property, water lines destroyed, corral, essential property destroyed, that as well. he's going to look for cattle. there is missing cattle.
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they took 400 and i think he got 260 back. those are some of the open questions from bunkerville back to you. >> for so many, this fight had little to do with animals and everything to do with freedom. cliven bundy did not recognize this was federal land and did not believe he needed to pay the fees because he said his family was long there before they claimed ownership. tonight we have this exclusive new look inside of this flight. >> today is the greatest day of my life. i've lived 65 years. the government just keeps taking more and more, more federal government. today that's for the freeman of america right there. for them soldiers that died and fought for it. >> this right here is the best thing i've seen, the people taking their country back. >> they said they were going to tax him more, and he said hope, i'm not selling and paying it. it's taxization without representation. >> basically what they have done
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with this federal government law enforcement here, we've been paying their way to come here and point guns at these free people. >> and that became a big part of the story, the tactics used by the feds. joining us now documentary film maker dennis michael lynch in the think of things bringing us this extraordinary video and facing down with the officers himself and working about to bring a peaceful resolution. wait until you see more clips. dennis, thanks for being here. >> thank you, megyn, for covering the story. >> that turned out to be, legally, the feds had cliven bundy, that's my opinion as a lawyer. they said mr. bundy you lose you have to pay. but mr. bundy said that f that's the law, the law is wrong. i don't recognize the federal government's right to tell me get off this land or pay fees because i've been here for a long long time and my ancestors have been here a long time. i'll pay nevada but not the federal government. it came down to a matter of principle. he didn't think the law was right. you went out there. how tense was it?
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>> well, you know, the kind of work i do. this was -- i've never experienced anything like this. >> even along the southern boarder where you go? >> i've looked at cartel in the face. this was different. this was different for a couple of reasons. number one, is i'm a new yorker. you're not going to bs me. when i went down there before i'm going to put myself in harm's way, i needed to understand the bundys. these people were willing to die on saturday. they were willing to die. i heard it in their voices. i saw it in their eyes. and that's when i really got nervous because you have americans against americans, and i'm seeing this is becoming the trend, and that's why, you know, we're standing there and they are making a prayer before they go, they go into battle. >> we have some of that. let's just saw the audience. this is clip number three of the prayer before they went to confront the agents. >> as we go about this test that
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we will be safe and that we in both sides have the power to defend in they son jesus chris, amen. >> amen. >> we'll get courage and walk up there and ask them -- >> it's amazing because my heart is actually beating as i'm watching that. when they made that prayer, megyn, what i did was they said we're going to go as a group and i ran ahead. i don't know why. something in my head just said you got to go. >> this could end badly. >> this could end badly. so i went towards them, you have the video and raised my hands up and said are you going to shoot these people. >> i'll get to that. >> okay. >> the reason you were praying and worry is there is orders to shoot. this is on camera. this is sound byte number two, watch. >> there is no reason for anybody to get hurt to lose their lives on either side, but it's a possibility. well, they were just on the
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phone with metro and metro has the word to shoot on the people to get the cows right now. >> so the mind set of those in that prayer circle and of those who were going to go confront the feds over what they believed, i guess, is a moral issue for them. >> yeah. >> were willing to put their lives on the line, were willing to put the lives of federal agents trying to do their jobs on the line. i mean, you must have been somewhat fearful, they must have been, as well. >> yeah, it was a situation that it's hard to describe in words. you got to see it. i can just tell you that i've never met anybody in my life that's willing to give their life because they didn't want to pay a tax for fee. it's more than that. >> it's about big government for some of these ranchers and militia. >> see, the militia thing gets a little over cooked. there was also women and children there and there were cowboys and i don't mean crazy cowboys, good cowboys, the kind of guys you like to hang out with on friday night and have a beer with.
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i'm the only guy that's not from the area. i have no emotional attachment and nothing to gain from the bundys. >> when i watch you make these movies, you don't normally become the news, but you shoot the news. you found yourself as a mediator of sorts in a moment here. >> i'm tired of going to these things and watching americans at war with each other. that's not the way it's supposed to be. >> watch it play out. >> i'll put the camera down. can i approach? i have no weapon. are you really going to shoot these people if they move forward, yes or no? if you shoot me, i got no gun. >> move back, move back now! >> i'm asking you one question. si sir? >> we have a court order. >> i do not have a weapon. i'm not -- i'm from new york. may i approach so this doesn't end in bloodshed?
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is wrong with you? come on. >> my wife isn't talking to me. >> but, i mean, the federal agents and the local agents who were there had to be fearful for their own lives, as well because this is a situation in which they have been sworn to uphold the law. >> yes. >> and the law according two to courts was on their side and what are we as a society if we don't abide by a rule of law? i mean, i know people said that back in the 1960s, too, when we had jim ycrow laws and others said we will rise up and change it. >> there are two things we have to say before we go. i was part of the crew that went over and was there when they were negotiating the deal and as i walk by, one of the armed guys handed me a water he could see i was so thirsty. he says please make sure when you're on tv that they know this. what he was trying to say he did not want to have that gun pointed like that.
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some say he has the option to put it down. a lot of these guys didn't have their guns up. >> they worry about their family. >> they know they are pointing it at americans and the blm has selective management. as much as i do, megyn, the blm owns property all along the boa boarder. the bunlies will pay the fee when they take a fee from the cartels who use that property to bring drugs in. i never see the m 16s down on the boarder stopping the drugs and the terrorist and day laborers coming through on blm property. it's an open door but they are going to point m 16s at our face to save turtles and collect a fee? this is a much bigger story than anybody is giving notice to. i won't make speculation on what it is. i talked to the bundys before i came on tv and the rumors that the blm is there and planning an attack is bs. they kept to their word so far. the bundys said they will contact me if something changes to that point, and, you know,
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for anybody whose going to think that these people are ma nip they've a -- manipulative and about money, i look them people in the eye and they are for real. >> they say it's not over. the feds want to continue to make mr. bundy pay fees for the grazing that his cattle is doing. >> i have to say something else. >> quickly. >> fox was the only truck in that parking lot, and that is disgusting because the entire country should know what is going on and only you and sean and the other people of fox, i could not believe there were not network trucks there, just yours and you know what, kudos to you. >> at least for now, it's ended peacefully. dennis, thanks so much for being here. >> thanks so much. we'll continue to follow it. explosive new e-mail suggests as the irs was targeting key conservative groups, one in particular, a top democrat in congress was quietly helping them do it and then he later looked into the cameras and denied it. we'll speak with the lawyer for that group with an explosive story just ahead.
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new developments in the store oh of the government seizing tax refunds for old american family members. it may be a debt you don't owe, maybe your parents owed it. the feds can't prove it and won't stop them from taking your irs refund, or will it? >> plus a video gone viral reportedly showing a toddler smoking pot while adults are heard laughing. this is disgusting. we investigate who took this video and where they are tonight. [ laughter ] i'm m-a-r-y and i have copd. i'm j-e-f-f and i have copd. i'm l-i-s-a and i have copd, but i don't want my breathing problems to get in the way of hosting my book club. that's why i asked my doctor about b-r-e-o. once-daily breo ellipta helps increase airflow from the lungs for a full 24 hours. and breo helps reduce symptom flare-ups that last several days
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visit truecar.com a big development tonight in a story that we've been following here. the government has been seizing irs refunds from regular americans to pay off old debts of their family members. but is the government about to cave? fox news senior judicial analyst andrew napolitano is here with us. what have the feds been doing? because we said earlier, if you're expecting your irs refund, you might not be getting it, depending on what the government does. >> the feds have been seizing refund checks from adult children whose parents were allegedly over paid social security when the children were infants. the parents are now dead. in one of the cases, it was 44 years later the lady is now in her early 50s.
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she was a preteenager when her mother was allegedly over paid by the federal government. 44 years later, the -- not the irs, for give me, the social security administration decides we're going to seize that money. how do they do it? they send a notice at the last-known address, they haven't lived there in years so they get no notice. they have a hearing, nobody there to resist them. they get a judgment against the people and seize the refund check. now megyn, you're a lawyer, i'm a lawyer, many people are watching us now are lawyers, they know that you cannot attribute the debts of the parent to the child when the child had nothing to do with incurring the debt. >> they slipped this into a bill in 2008 having to do with farming and it was signed into law. what gives then tm the authorito make the child pay the parents' debt? >> just like the segment before, they were acting like thugs. why do they do it?
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because they can get away with it. >> there is no contract. if my mother took a social security check that benefitted me, i signed nothing. there is no relationship between me and the federal government. how can they come after me? >> correct. they have backed off a bit -- >> i'm going to get do that. i want to diagnose the problem -- >> well, the problem is that the social security administration itself apparently by it's own k calculations and over paid people and discovered it 40 years later. everywhere in the united states of america except the lala land, the statute of limitations is six years. if you discovered something before six years, you can sue back. if it's more than six years it's too late. the national news broke this story and we covered it. after suing these people and getting back a couple billion, i think, over a billion dollars now they said oh, never mind. we're not going -- if it's more than ten years old, we're not going to go after it but children are still on the hook?
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>> they made up the law, children are not on the hook for the debts of their parents unless the children were adults at the time and signed a note to pay back that money. >> but that's not what the feds are saying, they said the kids can be on the hook. >> what they are doing to calm down people like you and me is dial back the 44 years to ten years. guess what? it should be zero. you cannot attribute to the child, especially when the child was a baby at the time the debts of the parents. >> right. chuck grassly is going nuts saying these agencies are abusing their power. got to run, quickly. >> never seen government out of control like this before between the last segment with the burro of land management and now this. >> we'll continue to follow this and find out what they are going to do. supposedly they are going to give some people the money back but what about the people they are going to go after? good to see you, judge. >> of course. this man is part of a new government investigation, he joins us live to explain why he
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paternity before the birth. his daughter stays in utah with the adoptive family. >> i think it's very dangerous term used to, in a case like mine, the child has been kept away from her biological parent so long. >> it's hard for me to fault a woman for the best interest of the child. >> birth mothers say some flee for the safety. >> utah adoptions are being made to look bad this, is a tiny percentage that has gone wrong. >> she did not place her child in secret, saying the father knew. both give mothers the benefit of the doubt. >> insisting most follow the law. >> i'm feeling very connected to this baby emotionally and physically. i'm going to the doctor
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appointments i feel like i should have a little bit more say. >> the babies grow up and become adults i don't want toechl plain to a child that by the way your birth father wanted to raise but but we decided to cut him out of the picture. >> saying other states have comparable laws >> utah has become a haven. >> fraud immunity became law the same year the church of jesus christ of latter day saints issued policies stating unmarried parents should be counselled to place children for adoption. then republican governor signed the legislation 19 years ago. in a statement he says as with most laws, all ways in which it is played out may not have been anticipated at the time if the legislature concludes the april politic has become imbalanced among complex interests they should take action. and there have been some recent changes regarding notifications
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and a minimum residency requirement. critics say the main problem, fraud immunity, awill youing some birth mothers to lie remains on the books >> up next a man prosecuted for unlawful possession for possession of an inoperable shotgun shell, right after the break. plus, was the top democrat investigating the irs scandal in on the targeting? we'll show you his denial and the e mail an attorney says proves he did it. >> there are too many lies. it's time to get to the truth and fbi to investigate this criminal acts. chico's effortle. play in it. work in it. go wild in it. do everything but wrinkle in it. the perfect fitting no-iron effortless shirt in 4 styles and 31 colors and prints. visit the shirt boutique, only at chico's and chicos.com.
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the top democrat in congress investigating the irs scandal now finds himself at the center of the targeting allegations. in february, democratic congressman elijah cummings denied any involvement with the actual targeting of the political group true the vote. but now they have just released documents, the irs has that appear to prove otherwise. when this story first broke last week, congressman comings declined an interview to appear on the show and answer charges but he did appear on face the nation this weekend with bob sheafer and did not get asked one question about this. joining me now, true the vote attorney cleeta mitchell. that's unbelievable. >> that's pretty unbelievable. i don't watch "face the nation" so i wasn't aware of that. >> not one, not like he's been in the news for a lot of things. not one question. >> amazing. >> i want to walk the viewers what your allegation is and he
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denies it as he did when you first accused him. your child true the vote was targeted. kathryn has this organization that was targeted by, what, six different agencies, personal audit, federal audit, business audit. >> right. >> you name, it, osha, fbi all started cracking down after she had this conservative group to get people to vote down in texas. she gets targeted. she's one of the ones what when she applied for tax except status. you believed the irs was coordinating with elijah cummings and his staff, the minority staff, meaning they are not the majority in the house, that's investigating the scandal but prior to that. when the scandal was going on, you said the irs and elijah coming's staff were coordinating? >> that's right because kerr usually in the spring of 2012, true the vote received questionnaires from the irs
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containing over 100 questions. now mind you, this is nearly -- at that point it was 18 months after they filed their application for except status and waiting all that time and then to be hit with this huge list of questions. fast forward about six months, and remember that's when congressman isa and jim jordan asked for the inspector general investigation into whether or not tea party groups and conservative groups were being targeted. >> getting a whiff something is not right here. >> that's right. beginning in the fall of 2012, about six months later, elijah cummings announced that he had under taken an investigation of true the vote. now mind you, he has no authority to do that. that is beyond the jurisdiction of that committee. >> right. >> to start investigating a private citizen's group in
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houston, texas and he announces on national television and submitted three different, three or four different letters to true the vote demanding all kinds of information -- >> right, right, right -- >> -- curiously, the same information the irs demanded. >> so to advance the story, you smell a rat. you say something is weird, seems like they are coordinating, which they should not be doing, right? that's your allegation. >> right. >> you have the opportunity to appear before the subcommittee in february. >> that's right. >> and you raise the allegation of coordination. let's watch it. >> we want to get to the bottom of how these coincidences happen and we're going to try to figure out whether any, whether there was any staff of this committee involved on putting true the vote on a radar screen of federal agencies. >> yes. >> i want to make the gentleman whose courtesy, what she just
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said is absolutely incorrect and not true. >> so he denies it. now your allegation there was very limited. you said to the staff of this committee put true the vote on the radar screen. you know, is that, could he be wiggling out saying we didn't really put them on the radar screen for the irs, they were already on the radar screen? >> well, what we -- what that clip doesn't show is what that what we did that day immediately following the hearing was we filed on behalf of true the vote a complaint against representative comings and his staff asking the office of congressional ethics of the house to investigate, find out what they did and that's what he was reacting to because he saw the complaint. we attached it to our testimony. >> so he was denying it. so what happened last week that has, you know, made some headlines, although apparently
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bob sheafer didn't see them is an e-mail came out to louis learner from another person in the tax agency, to louis learner. is this is two irs pea rrks srr talking to each other about communications with elijah's comings staff. i can't see it on this little board here but says the house oversight committee would -- they have requested any publicly available information and you can see right here, to louis learner about communication with the house oversight committee. they say the entity they want the information on is true the vote. they want tax returns, they want any publicly information -- publicly available information and this appears to call into question mr. coming's denial to you. >> well, it absolutely does because he said that there was no communication essentially is what he said with any federal agency about true the vote, which turns out not to be true, and we went ahead and filed our
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ethics complaint and asked the office of congressional ethics to investigate and last thursday after we saw this, we supplemented our complaint and said you're the only one, the house ethics committee is really the only ones that can get congressman comi comings e-mail >> because you're not supposed to be having a partisan person, whether elijah cummings or anybody else coordinating with a mostly independent agency, the tax agency about people's tax returns and other information, even if they are publicly available. am i correct? that's not supposed to be happening. >> that's absolutely. megyn, you have really put your finger on what is the underlying problem of this entire scandal, which is that the lois learner and the top at the irs came to see its role as somehow the enforcement of the democratic
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members of congress and the white house and they began to carry out these activities to pursue conservative groups because these politicians were demanding it. and yet, all of these people, lois learner, all of them have civil service protection and the only difference between what happened in watergate when richard nixon asked the irs to go after his political enemies is when richard nixon asked, they refused. when these democratic politicians said go do something about these conservative groups because they are challenging us and don't like what they are saying, the irs took it upon themselves to do their bidding and silence these groups. in this case, elijah cummings said to the irs that he was under taking an investigation of true the vote. now there is nothing proper about that. >> he denies doing anything inappropriate and says his communications were appropriate but hasn't elaborated and won't come give us a full statement,
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which we would be happy to hear him out. it was curious because he was one of the first to go out there and i'll play the sound byte quickly and declare this thing over long before it really was. >> right. >> based upon everything i've seen, the case is solved. if it were me, i would wrap this case up and move on. >> i got to go. we'll take to you again. >> thank you. new developments tonight in the second amendment case that gun rights activists say shows that authorities are going after second amendment supporters. last month, mark was convicted of attempted possession of unlawful ammunition after police found one shotgun shell and a box of muzzle loader bullets in his d.c. townhouse. he says the next day, d.c. then started investigating his taxes. mark is joining me now. mark, good to see you. after this gun, you know, ammo case that got some publicity because many felt that it was making a mountain out of a mole
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hill, what happens next? >> well, the conviction came through when we were in court on wednesday, march 26th. the next day, i got a notice from my office that officers from the d.c. office of tax and revenue were at my office in virginia with a summons asking for information on payroll records and other pieces of information concerning my taxes. they haven't officially talked to he or my representative yet, but i later found out that very specifically the order to begin the conduct of this investigation came from the ag's office who were the pokes that were running this, the prosecution of the ammunition issue. >> really? so you feel it was coordinated? >> yes, absolutely. i mean, it's no coincidence it
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started the next day, but i have specific confirmation that yes, the instruction to begin the investigation came from the ag's office. >> why would they want to sort of give it to you from, in two fronts like that? >> why would they want to carry this case out for two entire years over something, you know, those muzzle loader bullets were essentially pieces of lead. from the beginning, nothing made sense about this case. from the time they first showed up at my house in georgetown and asked to conduct the first search under false pretenses, to the second raid that they conducted in july where they were still looking for guns and found absolutely nothing but this shotgun shell and the pieces of muzzle loader ammunition to the subsequent arrest for that ammunition to two years of prosecution of that
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issue. nothing has made sense from the beginning, so why -- why wouldn't it make sense that they would take this step? >> we would like to believe the government doesn't coordinate in retribution against private citizens, sounds like you have doubts. >> yeah, you heard the prior case this woman in texas was not only visited by the irs but multiple federal government agencies. so i don't think this is unusual at all. i do have to say that the officers from this dc office of tax and revenue were very respectful and professional and i certainly don't object to anything that is independent, people get questioned -- >> right, right, i understand. >> it was a lot in a short period of time. mark, thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> a clean slate at hhs, not so fast, new questions about woman
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or they send a memo detailing objections to a speech. so this office was responsible for scrubbing the you can keep your plan line the question for burwell is how did one of the biggest lies of presidential history make it through not once, but dozens of times before she took over and after? >> short of the people in the white house who actually know the answer to that question because they were there, the department might be best department to ask that question. how did they get away with saying that? >> well, exactly. now, congress has this unique opportunity because you have the person supposed to administer obamacare is the director, current director of the office that fact checks it. >> she hasn't been there for, when the lie of the year was told she wasn't in this role
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viral video and what it shows, appears to show a toddler doing. who was behind this? who was behind this? popular because when you buy the new samsung galaxy s5 on verizon, you get a second samsung galaxy s5 for free. so, who ya gonna give it to? maybe your brother could use it to finally meet a girl. your mom, but isn't your love reward enough? it's not. maybe your roommate, i mean you pretty much share everything else. hey. your girlfriend. just don't tell her it was free. >> test. test. cars are driven by people. they're why we innovate. they're who we protect. they're why we make life less complicated. it's about people.
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tonight, the kelly file investigation. a video surfacing on line that appears to show a toddler smoking a joint. while adult voices are heard laughing. the question? who was behind it? trace gallagher trying to find some answers. >> and the trick is finding out who exactly this child is and more importantly, how the parntds are. we know this video was posted online sometime in recent past. but we do not know exactly when the video was taken or where it was taken. but there are now some very
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savvy tech peek trying to trace this back. it was originally posted on vine. that's kind of like instagram only you post videos no longer than six seconds. we don't know how long the original video is. but i want you to watch and listen to the six seconds. secon. play this. >> he's smoking that [ bleep ]. >> the toddler is sitting on a toilet. it appears an adult hand cupping the joint and adults laughing. they don't know where this is again, megyn, but focussing efforts. we called cps in california because there was a rumor it was from california. they would have to know the county to be a help at all. remember this video from washington state when this baby was apparently smoking a bong hit? well, they went in. the police got this video. they arrested the mother, she spent six months in jail. the kids were both taken out of
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that house, megyn? >> trace, thank you. listen, trace is a father, i'm a mother of three. we don't delight in showing you that. this is not being done for exploiting purposes. we hope somebody recognizing that child and can call authorities and direct them to the people responsible for that abuse. if you have any information, we'll post the numbers you can call on our facebook.com page and i'll tweet it ou [ hypnotist ] you are feeling satisfied without standard leather. you are feeling exhilarated with front-wheel drive. you are feeling powerful with a 4-cylinder engine. [ male announcer ] open your eyes... to the 6-cylinder, 8-speed lexus gs. with more standard horsepower than any of its german competitors. this is a wake-up call. ♪ this is a wake-up call. predibut, manufacturings a prettin the united states do.
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another word on the last segment, april is national child abuse prevention month. if you know anything about that child or another suffering, call 1-8004 a child. i'm megyn kelly. see you tomorrow at 9:00. and this is a fox news alert. the federal government caveed to public pressure in the battle against nevada rancher cliven bundy. in just a moment, cliven and his two sons will join us for their first exclusive interview. first, the government surrendered after tensions escalated in the week-long stand off between bundy, family supporters and agents. the burro of land management released the 400 cattle seized and removed the heavily-armed agents. our producers were on the scene all weekend long as these tense and sometimes confusing events were unfolding. let's take you through the
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