. >> happy earth happy earth day. >> earth day is next week. it's time to get hysterical about global warming. >> this is a huge, huge planetary crisis. >> are you worried about global warming? >> of course i am. >> what should we do about it? >> i'm not sure. >> it can be as simple as riding the bus or the subway to work. >> well, i do that. or this. i'm such a good citizen riding my bike to work. i'm going to save the work. >> it's a priority. >> how much are we going to do to get zero effect on the

environment? >> a practical earth day. that's our show tonight. >> announcer: and now, john stossel. tuesday's earth day. this is a holiday that brings out stupiddy in people. we will hear all kinds of bizarre things this week, some on this program. the premise is noble. we all want to protect the environment. but there's this religious like satisfaction some people get thinking they can save the planet from man's extravagance. you get a taste of that in the new movie "noah's ark". >> my father said if man continued in this way, the world would destroy. >> it's called "no wa."

that's the kind of stuff that's happening. we pilute, burn oil. we can still save ourselves. we face a fork in the road. >> we can continue on our current path and rely on outdated electricity grids and dirty power plants that contaminate our air. or we can change. we can greet greener cities. here's the thing. this cleaner, more sustainable future is within our grasp. wi. greener cities with solar panels and wind power. our president has a plan too. he says -- >> we can break our dependence on oil with biofuels and become the first country to have a million electric vehicles on the road by 2015. >> they all applaud.

but oops, by 2015, that's next year and america doesn't have a tenth that many electric vehicles. this is what we've got versus the president's prediction. even if we reached his goal, it wouldn't have had any real effect on climate change. most americans including our politicians aren't very good with numbers. even worse with science. let's turn to two specialists. one who's right and one who's wrong. no, i'm not being fair, but now you know where i understand. james taylor studies environmental policy. paul is part of the group river keeper. how am i getting wrong? >> all you want to do is deny the problem. you need to solve problems in america. we're here to solve problems. >> and the problem is climate change? >> the problem is giving our kids and their kids a planet

we'll be happy to give them and they'll be happy to live on. giving them a better standard of life that our parents gave us. you as a conservative should be embracing them, not ridiculing them. >> just for clarity, i don't call myself a conservative. i call myself a libertari eerta. big difference. >> i'm sure there is. >> don't you want to preserve the planet for your children? >> absolutely. we all do. what's the current path? it's a sound path. we've reduced air emissions 70% since 1980, so we're doing a great job. >> when people hear this crisis about greenhouse gases, they think the air is getting dirtier, but you both agree as far as the bad stuff we inhale, nitrogen, that stuff has gone down. >> clean water and clean air

laws work. we have to keep making them work. because the clean water act was supposed to be done, all the rivers were supposed to be fishable and swimmable. only half the rivers that we are supposed to clean up have been cleaned up. let's finish the job. >> and river keeper has helped make that happen and cooperating with government, passing laws. but they are getting cleaner, right? there's been delay in some of the treatment, but it's moving in a cleaner direction. i can fish and swim in the rivers right next to new york city. >> you can sometimes. by when it rains, you end up with so much pollution that you can't do that. we're been cutting that pollution slowly by surely. we stopped spending on infrastructure. that's not the values that i fwru up with when i looked at my dad and he was a republican committee man. he said you invest in your community. he talked about the greatest

generation. we don't talk about that anymore because we don't emulate them. >> we're not investing in our community. >> well paul talks about spending, i talk about results. why are we measuring progress by how much money and power we're giving to government. i want to see results and i'm seeing results. epa is seeing results. that's even more important. >> the government of the state of new york has just worked with the city of albany to get them to spend $140 million that will take their water quality in the hudson from the worst to first. let's finish the job. >> i can drink this practically unfiltered. >> i'm going to send you right up to albany after a rainstorm and watch you drink it, john. maybe the viewers will get a kickoff it. >> river keeper's website says there's only one sustainable option. smart energy. that's wind, solar power,

biomass. >> as i already mentioned, we see that pollution is already declining. why do we need wind power and wind turbines that require 600 square miles of land especially when the costs are so much higher. this takes money away from other key environmental issue sfwls what's wrong with solar power? >> it's very land intensive and water intensive. that requires two to four times more water than conventional energy. where are we producing it? in the december eithers where we -- deserts where we need this water. >> the biggest is called a disruptive development in which the old style of generating power and sending it through transmission lines in people's communities is less and less important. you had 30% of the power created in 2013 was solar. >> i put them -- i have them on my rooftops.

>> bless you for that. >> but i only put them there because the it jot state of -- idiot state of massachusetts throws money at me to subsidize my putting them there. poor people have to pay for it. >> for every dollar there's $13 of subsidy for fossil fuel. >> i got to let you answer that one. >> you can get a huge tax credit relative to the tax de dooux you get for a hybrid. >> when we're talking kilowatt our for kilowatt hour, solar power received ten times as been subsidies as natural gas. when he talks about that, it's merely because conventional energy is more efficient and effective. he wants to talk about aggregate but not per kilowatt hour. >> you want more subsidies for oil and coal? >> kill them all, john. >> that one we can agree on.

i want a transition that is smart, sensible and gets us where we need to go. i want a a price on arrest button, but i want one that's done in revenue neutral fashion. i realize i'm with the libertarians now. republicans have walked back from their own baby. cap and trade was their baby. that's one of the reasons why the air is cleaner. >> carbon tax would be better. it appears as far as the public's concern, your side has won the debate. when i interviewed people on the street, most everyone said they were worried about global warming and they talked about wind power and solar power. >> solar. it's cleaner. >> we're a big fan of wind in the uk. we have a lot of wind. >> james, you've lost. >> i think people are concerned because they hear so much in the media. but when you prioritize, when you ask people what are you most

concerned about, global warming comes in dead last. we're not going to sentence ourselves to economic deprivation based upon these false -- >> you're not worried about global warming? >> not at all. temperatures that rose during the 20th century, about one degree, can't even tell the difference. it's 43 degrees outside right now in late april in new york city. >> that's new york city. >> we're looking at a very small amount of warming that's been beneficial. when you look back, we're still much cooler than the long-term average. when you hear about the mantra about the hottest decade on record, what they define on record is merely the past hundred or so years. in a long term context, we're actually quite cool. >> here's what your president says about skepticism like yours that dismiss the promise of renewable energy. >> some of these folks want to dismiss the promise of solar

power and wind power and fuel efficient cars. in fact, they make jokes about it. if these guys were around when columbus set sail, they'd be charter members of the flat earth society. >> the idea that global warming, climate change is good for you, let's go down to the jersey shore and tell folks who lost their homes in hurricane sandy which james believes would have been worse if not -- >> let's compare the number of hurricanes now -- >> it's absolute objective facts. the number of hurricanes -- >> hurricane sandy before -- >> there's never been a hurricane before. we've seen many more like hurricane sandy. hurricane sandy was a category two at its strongest. they used to strike the new york city area on a fairly regular basis. if you go back to the early 20th century, we saw it frequently. you don't see that anymore. >> used to be the guys at heart land say it's a hoax.

now they say it's good for you. i really wish they'd pick a story and stick with it. >> you're saying in some cases it's good because more carbon dioxide means good for plant growth. >> you look at crops, we see crop increases. we see declining number in severity of tornados and hurricanes. >> but there is -- >> thrive in warmer temperatures. >> when he says heart land, that's heartland institute. there is bad stuff that might happen. serious scientists are worried. >> might happen if we have the type of warming that is not going to happen for many centuries. whenever temperatures -- >> how -- >> his side uses faith-based science. they published a paper a couple of weeks ago. if you look at the citations in the executive summary. there's 20 citations. 11 of them are 30 years old or

more. six of them were created by the people that wrote the paper. >> he is faith-based because he looks at these computer projections. i am recording real world facts and data from today. he says, well, by we program these computer models to say this. that is faith-based sign. >> you pay your scientists. >> do you work for free? >> thank you both. paul gallay and james taylor. you're not the singer. >> but i can sing. >> but don't. >> keep the conversation going on facebook or twitter. use that #earth day. let people know what you think. now, a few people i interviewed were utterly skeptical. >> is the globe warming? >> i don't think so. don't buy it. >> significant minority of people say that. the globe isn't warming. i won't go that far.

the earth has warmed, though not for the past 17 years. but we are in a warming trend and we're putting lots of carbon dioxide into the air. what do we do about that? that's next. cars are driven by people. they're why we innovate. they're who we protect. they're why we make life less complicated. it's about people. we are volvo of sweden. what do you mean? your grass, man. it's famished! just two springtime feedings with scotts turf builder lawn food

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james smith here and i got one more for you. trees. we need to get to work. when our movie comes out, you'll see what happens if we don't start taking care of it. >> that was james smith. son of the famous actor will smith. that came out shortly after the first earth day. i'm so sick of the hype about our dying planet and how all of us must pay more for than electric car or something. it's just mindless anti-scientific propaganda. we've heard it since the first earth day. here's how cbs hyped that. >> the heavens weeped, we are in a crisis of sur vie valve. >> this is a cbs news special.

earth day. a question of survival. >> somehow, we survived since that earth day. most of life got better. some of it got better because we passed environmental rules and got the filth out of the air and the sewage out of the water. now we're told we're in big trouble because of greenhouse gases. most people i interviewed in washington d.c. believed that. >> we're not going to be able to survive in the same way that we have been all this time. >> we're not going to survive? please. odds are we will not only survive, but life will get better. even left wing environmentalists who say global warming is a real problem says industrialization will make things better. how? >> if you're poor, you have bad air. you have bad water and you die very soon. >> you have bad air because you may burn dung to heat your hut.

>> exactly. almost half the world's population live with air pollution that kills 4.3 million people each year. the world health organization just told us it's the biggest problem, yet that's never what we talk about. we need to get a sense of priority. by far the most important thing is air pollution, indoor and outdoor air pollution and that's about getting people out of poverty. >> and america has reduced its greenhouse gas emissions in spite of government in fracking which a lot of governments forbid. >> surprisingly the amazing numbers if you take all the solar panels and wind turbines in the world, which we send $60 billion supporting this year, they cut less o 2 than what u.s. fracking has managed to make total. that's worth pondering because

we are paying 60 billion for the privilege of having those panels. you guys are making about a hundred billion dollars on fracking. that's a much better deal. >> but our government pushing stuff like electric cars. even if we did reach the goal of a million electric cars by 2015. >> not going to happen. >> that will cost $7 billion. how much would that delay global warming? >> it would be infy at the scene mall. >> by one hour according to the environmentalist calculation. >> fundamentally what that tells you is that this is symbolic act. >> today in the environmental movement and among the general public there's this attitude that if it's industry, it's bad, it's going to make things worse. now this new ipcc report sounds like we're all going to die. los angeles time headline, crop yields are down, death of heat

are up. new york times, the worst is yet to come. but more carbon dioxide is good for plants and the price for food far and wide has gone down because of industry. >> these are very misleading reports. there is a problem and co2 will in the long run make growth rates and yields lower. we're still going to be able to produce more and more food. what they're telling us we'll be able to produce slightly less more and more food. not the worst is yet to come. >> says you. >> yeah. so that's the ipc report by, you know, the second half on the the century. remember, that's one year of -- >> we can't adjust to that. >> it's not the end of the world. tast problem. it's one of those many problems that we will fix and mostly by

making sure that people stop being poor. people worry a lot about hurricanes. remember, if a hurricane hits a rich area like florida, there's a lot of damage. if it hits kwaut ma la, it wipes out 10,000 people and costs about a third of their economy. it's about getting people out of the poverty trap. >> and free markets do that. thank you. coming up, more an earth day and we'll argue about nuclear power. and one of my guests says worrying about climate change is racist against people. hange is racism against people. my fe end of thday.

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♪ [ jim ] when my grandson grows up, it's his. but it's all mine now. [ male announcer ] that's how we run, and nothing runs like a deere.

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millions of people flushing right around here. getting most of the filth out of the water is one of the few good things government's done. and it was the first earth day protest years ago that helped make that happen. so good for the environmentalists. good for the government. but like all things with government, their rules grow and grow and never stop. 51 years ago -- 15 years ago the environmental regulators could have said, stick a fork in it, we're done. let's go home now. they always do more. when they do, they run over people. people like california farmer john do you rememb john duarte. >> they told us we couldn't farm our ground. they gave us a cease andy cyst order. >> because. >> they presumed we had stepped

into wetlands and other areas that we shouldn't be farming and don't even want to farm. >> you did buy some land that had wetlands on it, but you avoided the wed lands. >> we flagged them, we mapped them, we went around them, we didn't touch them. >> because? >> i don't want my tractor to get stuck and i don't want to break the law. >> so tony, take it from there. >> what happened in this case, as john mentioned, is that the corps of engineers issued mr. duarte and his company is cease and desist order. they've done this on erroneous facts. >> they just assumed he must have? >> their order is based in their own words on available

information. despite our requests on what they base it on, they have never told us. >> wetlands are important. the army corps of engineers says it's habitat for fish and wildlife. >> they are important. they are protected and we stayed out of them. and if we had had the opportunity to explain exactly what our practices were before we planted any wheat, we could have solved this ahead of all these troubles. >> so what's this about? >> it's about due process. this -- >> what's in their heads? >> we can't tell you that. i can tell you we want to farm property sensibly. we want to farm it sustainbly. we know the public is demanding it be done in a sustainable way. we're game. we're happy to play ball. but there has to be a reasonable process for the regulators to oversee that. >> tony, the pacific legal

foundation sees lots of these cases. the bureaucrats always want more power. they mean well, i assume, but they always have to do more. >> i characterize the average bureaucrat is that fellow you know that just has to be on the homeowner's association so they can enforce the rules. the corps of engineers is that guy. it's important for people to understand this is not the every glades. these are small depressions in the ground that hold water for a few months a year. this is them going beyond their charge to protect waters and then using false facts and no process to deprive people of their property. >> because they're mean? because they're crazy? why? >> this is very similar if you

went home today and the police had barricaded off the front door and said to you, you cannot use your home, you've violated some laws. you would have your attorney say, please tell me exactly what lays we violated. and then you received another letter with no answer to your original question of what did i do from the enforcement prosecutor in the local county. i mean, when we asked what we actually did, they kicked it up to the enforcement branch of the army corps in sacramento and still to this day haven't told us why we can't use our property. >> what's this cost you? >> two years of farming the property. we would like to develop into permanent crops, probably walnuts. it would involve probably $4 million in investment into the county where the property lies. they have 11% unemployment rate. >> and this is one of the reasons why. thank you tony and john. next, the founder of green peace

wants you to die. i'll confront him about that when we come back. that when we come back.

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. there's one ample form of energy that produces no greenhouse gas and that's nuclear power. but when we ask people about it, most recoiled. >> it's scary. >> nuclear energy's the worst. >> he must be right, the worst, because i saw jane fon da and jack lemon in that movie, "the china syndrome." >> go to the core. >> operations? >> this is jack. we have a serious condition. you get everybody into safety areas and make sure that they

stay there. >> proceed directly to safety areas. caution. this is not a drill. >> the title referred to the movie's claim that the nuclear plant melt down was going to burrow through the earth all the way to china and then came 3 mile island. >> something happened to the power station's cooling system and radio active steam was released inside the plant. it is also leaking through the thick walls of the plant into the air. >> oh, my goodness. after that there was the explosion in russia which killed a million people. most recently in japan, fukushima. >> they are still at the mercy of the winds and which way radiation gets carried. >> but it turned out that that scare and the others were exaggerated. no one died from fukushima or 3 mile island. no one was even hurt.

and i said a million died in u even catch that? 56 people did die, not a million and most died fighting the fire. people are so scared of radiation that they'll believe just about anything. patrick moore a co-founder of green peace used to fear nuclear power. you once called it synonymous with nuclear holocaust. >> it's enough to make me cringe today. we were fighting against nuclear war and the threat of nuclear war. i was a serious science student. we believed that radiation was bad and that anything that had to do with radiation should go. today, when i think about that, the fact that nuclear medicine is such an important part of medicine, diagnosing and treating millions of people with high-level radiation and doing it for good, and nuclear energy

which is the safest form of energy we have. the statistics are there. in russia is the only nuclear accident that did cause mortality and it was a style of reactor that never should have been built. the soviets took a shortcut during the cold war. we're lucky that only one of them blew up because the designed was flawed so that it could blow up. and that's what happened there. the world health organization says 56 deaths can be attributed to it and there is no discernible health effect in the hundreds of thousands of people that were evacuated eventually after being exposed to quite high levels of radiation. 3 mile island, there wasn't really any exposure to think of. >> it's not as risky as people think. now you say, let's build nuclear plants in america. >> if the environmental movement had recognized back then that

nuclear energy was far superior to using coal for the large continuous power plants, there would be more nuclear plants today. there's already a hundred in the united states already that are running every day. but there might be three or 400 now. where as we're getting half of our electricity from goal, it's going down now from the fracking. gas is coming into replace it. if the environmental movement had embraced nuclear energy we would have car less coal power and far less deaths from coal mining. >> the fuel can be stolen, made into nuclear bombs. >> you try and steal nuclear fuel out of a nuclear plant, that is not going to be very easy. the fact that no terrorist has ever targeted a nuclear plant is one piece of ed about why -- evidence about why it isn't very likely. they prefer shopping centers and

political targets and financial targets. they have -- >> the fuel can't be made into a bomb? it's different? >> it's totally different. it's enriched to about 3% or 4%, yier rainium 235. it's two totally different things. >> i'm sold. i'm appalled that even nasa doesn't tell the public it's nuclear fuel in those rockets because they're afraid people won't like it. if it's so good, why does nuclear power need all the government subsidies. the price anderson act limited the nuclear industry's liability for accidents. george bush, 20 billion in nuclear loan guarantees. get off the dough. >> the loan guarantees are not a subsidy. they are taking a risk to some extent on the part of the public. >> so is any business. >> the public needs to be involved in the production of

our energy supply. i mean, they're the ones benefits from getting the energy. if we want nuclear energy -- >> i benefit from my blackberry. i admit i still have one of these. >> there will be subsidies somewhere in that chain. the point is the loan guarantees are not giving money. there's no money being given. they're basically guaranteeing the project. so it makes it less expensive to borrow the money. it takes like five years to build a plant. all that money has to be spent before a nickel comes out of it. >> we'll have to continue that discussion. thank you, patrick moore. next, if you celebrate earth day, does that make you racist. my guest says yes.

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this is a wake-up call. could mean less waiting for things like security backups

and file downloads you'd take that test, right? what are you waiting for? you could literally be done with the test by now. now you could have done it twice. this is awkward. go to comcastbusiness.com/ checkyourspeed. if we can't offer faster speeds or save you money we'll give you $150. comcast business built for business. you've been to a un earth summit lately? i hope not because here's a sample of the artwork seen there. there's an earth on the left with a thermometer in its mouth. why is earth sick? the doctor says, you have humans. we are now a disease. aleck epstein says the

environmental movement practices a form of racism. racism against the human race. really? what do you mean? >> let's think about this kind of graphic. it's sort of an extreme graphic, but you hear this all the time. imagine if like the sun or god or whomever saw the earth and what we've done to it, what would they think us. they'd think we've ruined it. that's not what i think of it. those guys are amazing. they've done such a good job making the earth good for them skpchlt we have. so why can't we see that? >> because it's not natural. >> why don't we consider human beings natural? why do we exclude us. that's why i call it human racism. >> people burn coal, birds don't. bears don't. >> uh-huh. too bad for the birds and the bears.

they're not good enough to burn coal. they don't have a mind. >> they're not destroying the earth. we are. >> if you talk about good or bad, it's from the perspective of someone. from the perspective of a human being, burning coal is amazing. one of us would have to go or everyone in the studio practically would have to go. so thank man for coal. >> here's examples of the anti-human as you say racist attitude. the sierra club fighting climate change with family planning. in other words, have fewer children for the earth. the telegraph, humans are a plague on earth. prince philip, former president of the world wildlife fund, i'm tempted to ask for the reincarnation of a particularly deadly virus. >> yeah, so the key is when they talk about the earth, they don't mean the earth for humans.

they mean the earth -- saving the earth from humans. i believe we need to improve the earth for humans. if you think the idea of calling us a cancer is horrible, no, we're the ones who cure cancer. >> but we cause global warm. >> we cause a lot of things. sometimes you -- you know, you accomplish what you want, sometimes you have a side effect. at worst, it would be a side effect. we've found the side effect is not that bad. but the effect is burning all that coal, we can build such a durable and comfortable civilization. o they can be safe climate too. john: you use an example to show the grand canyon to show how groups think? >> if you were against oil, how are you going to get to the grand canyon. people used to not move around at all. i've been to the grand canyon, that's because of oil, because

of technology, because we've improved the earth. what they call a cancer. i call that great. john: and they appreciate it because it's beautiful, and no people should be around. you say? >> historically there are no people, there the whole thing is a scam. they think the grand canyon should exist and no one should see it and contemplate the landscape in our yard while we are border line starving to death. that's a primitive life. i want a life where i can enjoy nature and the man made. john: the same philosophy behind the idea of gmo foods which can save lots of lives. >> no evidence they are harmful. all the evidence they are helpful. the reason they are opposed is they are mand made, and man made is mind made and made for man. it's neutral for us. john: it's not just man made, maybe it will change the food to kill us and there will be a mutation. >> deliberately made to help us. it's using the mind to benefit

human life. if you are against man made, you are against the mind and human life. john: racist against the human race. >> yes. we as a race have low self-esteem and time for human esteem. >> this is one form of esteem. i love fossil fuels. fossil fuels improve the planet around us, overall it's amazing and so we should love the earth we've made on earth day or call it man day. john: let's call it man and earth day. thank you, alex epstein, next, we heard one glimmer of hope. good news when talking to people about earth day, from a child. i'll show you what i think this girl should run for president, after the break. cars are driven by people. they're why we innovate. they're who we protect. they're why we make life less complicated.

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dr. scholl's pain relief orthotics-- pain relief that starts with your feet. i'm a believer. . john: this earth day, it's time to ask, "! ask, this erj darth day it's time to, what are people thinking? are they thinking at all. >> though temperatures are changing now because of, i guess, the ozone layer. >> at least she was joking. most everyone told us they want to stop climate change when i ask them how, they are not so clear. they look for rituals to make them feel cleansed. >> which actions?

>> things like everything from being more conscious of how, you know, what they are throwing away and how they are recycling. >> if we recycle more about that affect climate change. >> i think it will start. >> every little it bit. >> recycl everybody in america recycled, with that affect climate change. >> definitely. i force him to try to throw thing as way when he's not looking but i pick through the trash. >> sometimes i'm like, you know, what going to throw this away just because i know i can. >> more people should be walking, bike riding. >> that wouldn't change my life much. that's how i get to work. but it won't make a dent in climate change. why should everyone have to live the way i do? also everyone i interviewed talked about recycling as you heard. it has almost nothing to do with climate change. it might reduce our need for

landfills but there's no shortage of space for landfills. most of what we heard was meaningless environment feel good bastuff. once you decide nature is good and moral, the reasons to restrict human activity are endless. some environmentalists won't be satisfied until our carbon footprint is zheer oero. of course that would require abolishing civilizatiocivilizat. the group earth fishes did have the slowingal back to the pleost pleostine. most of us don't think civili civilization is evil but we worry so much about what environmentists say, we don't have the time to do the complex calculations about economic trade offer. it's easier to just recycle something but the earth won't

notice. rarely do people think about climate change in terms of costs as well as benefits. when we asked people about their preferred source of power, they were almost unanimous. >> solar power, definitely. >> solar. it's cleaner. solar energy without a doubt. >> really? even though it's much more expensive and takes up vast areas of last for solar panels. it only produces power sometimes. we want it because it makes us feel good. but at last, some good news. sometimes i see a glimmer of hope someone who gets it, despite all the propaganda that surrounds her. even from her own mom. one who has enough wisdom so when we ask about the best source of power we get one sensible answer, i think solar power. i think we need to explore soil power. >> i think oil. we need to explore it. >> yes, we do need to explore for oil because at the moment.

fossil fuel like oil are all that stands between us and pofr it jie can't wait for that girl to run for president. that's our show, see you next week. tonight on red eye. coming up on red eye, why was the transformer known as bumble bee found hiding at the top of the empire state building. we'll investigate rumors that he may be in talk tos join the other side. plus is the president sorry that a sequel to mrs. doubt fire should be in the works, i don't think we should apologize or be defensive about it. we should be open to other ways that we can make it better as president that's what i intend to keep doing as long as i'm in the office. >> finally, just stifling a sneeze make you look polite or really stupid. next. >>