enough and the fluid is backing up, you may have that. or you may have some -- >> ask your doctor. we've got two of the doctors here. >> they're the best. that does it for us. >> thank you for watching "sunday housecall" as always on sundays. take care. nearly two years after the deadly benghazi terror attack the question remains, who bears responsibility for what happened before, during and after the attacks? former vice president dick cheney puts the blame on the person many think will run for president, then-secretary of state, hillary clinton. >> i don't think we've heard the last of it yet. and i would expect that she will be held accountable during the course of the campaign. pregnant, christian and sentenced to die in sudan. international outrage grows as a married physician sits on death row because of her faith. will the outrage be enough to help save her? the reverend weighs in on the

decline of religious freedom around the world. and it was a bumpy ride getting there, but graduation ceremonies are underway at rutgers university today after condoleezza rice stepped down and then miscommunication with another speaker who is going to impart wisdom to the graduates. we'll have a live report. "america news headquarters live" from the nation's capital starts right now. we begin with a growing veterans affairs scandal as outrage grows over reports of secret waiting lists and allegations that veterans died without ever getting care. the white house chief of staff says president obama is "madder than hell," but some lawmakers say it will take more than tough talk to fix the v.a. peter joins wut latest. >> the big talk in d.c. is about how big the veterans affairs department is. with some lawmakers now

wondering how an organization made up of so many people that come from structured military backgrounds can have such a seemingly broken chain of command from the top here in d.c. down to facilities across the country. >> you know, you would think an organization that's made up of veterans have active duty military would understand how to follow orders, but there's definitely a letdown by the senior management team to the secretary and people under him. we don't have an accountability system or a chain of command within the veterans administration, veterans medical services and it's showing. that's why our veterans are not getting the services they should. >> adding to the outrage here in d.c. is the revelation that the one resignation at the v.a. so far, was set to retire later on this year. some are wondering why president obama hasn't been more vocal. >> we need the white house, the president, to come forward. he needs to make a statement to show the employees of v.a. that this needs to change now.

one death is tragic, but when you hide it that's unforgivable. >> today the white house chief of staff, said the president is madder than hel welcomes about all of this and he promises the white house is adding personnel to find out how often those records were manipulated. >> the president has demanded they will continue to fix these things until they are functioning the way that our veterans believe they should and the way so that they get the services and the benefits that they have earned. >> and there's a new whistleblower website, vaoversight.org where anyone at the v.a. can anonymously report wrongdoing. and its organizers say as soon as the site went live the tips started flowing in. >> thanks for staying on this, peter. our next guest was on the front lines this week as a member of the senate veterans affairs committee which pressed secretary eric shinseki on

thursday. senator joins us live. >> shannon, my pleasure to be with you. >> what did you make of the hearing? did you get the answers you were looking for? >> absolutely not. what i'm looking for is something more than damage control. and that's really all i've seen to date. what group of people in our country would we expect to receive the most timely health care, the highest quality of health care except or military men and women who ultimately become veterans. and to date i think we've seen the continuation of this effort to try to solve the problem with words, not with actions. and what we need is results. what has been announced to date by secretary shinseki seems to me to be just one more piece of evidence that there is no one in charge, no one in leadership at the department of veterans affairs. >> you have said "action should be taken immediately to change the bureaucratic culture of mediocrity," what do you mean?

what can be done? i know you've called for the secretary's resignation, but beyond that how do things actually on the ground at these v.a. centers change for these men and women who are waiting? >> well, i think leadership does matter. and i would say that it's not just a matter of the secretary's departure, but it is something that needs to be altered from top to bottom. we need an atmosphere in which excellence is rewarded in which those who strongly care for and take care of our veterans they are the ones that receive the accolades. instead, we've had a department that has encouraged the hiding of information to make things look better than they are. and that cannot be tolerated and what we've seen to date is a secretary that is pretty much unaware of the various inspector general gao reports, congressional inquiries. the testimony last week suggests to me that we have a secretary that has been removed from the leadership, from the knowledge,

of what's going on here. and that person needs to be somebody who's in charge and all we've seen to date is the departure of the undersecretary who as you said was planning on leaving the department later this year and the only one who indicated knowing anything about all these reports of bad practices over a long period of time. why didn't the secretary know? and now the secretary's asked for an investigation so-called face-to-face. the first reports that we're getting are these are very cursory looks without ever questioning any veteran. if i was going to do an overview of what's wrong at the v.a., start with asking those who receive the services at the v.a., how are we doing? and that's not yet happening. >> okay. there is a report out today that's gone through v.a. database looking for claims that have been paid out with respect to delays in treatment, people who have either had settlements or some kind of interaction with the v.a. according to these reports out this morning -- and it's linking to a gao report among others,

saying the v.a. since 2001 has paid a total of $36.4 million to settle these claims. so this is not a new issue if these numbers in these reports are accurate. it's a devastating waste of taxpayer money in addition to and more importantly lives that have been lost. it's something that seems systemic. how in the world does anyone get ahold of it now? >> shannon, that's one of the problems that i think we face today is there's this belief by some that the story in phoenix, for example, is something that just happened, that it's something unusual. what we've seen over a long period of time, certainly several years, is this growing inability of the department of veterans affairs to meet the needs of our servicemen and women. and this is not just something that popped up overnight. and in fact if the department of veterans affairs can't care for the number of servicemen and women we have today, our veterans, think what happens as our military men and women from afghanist

afghanistan, iraq, retire and enter the veteran system. we're going to have increasing numbers. think about our world war ii veterans as they age, as the department of veterans affairs going to be better capable of caring for them? my point is that this circumstance will only get worse. it's why it's so important to do something now. if the v.a. can't take care of our veterans today, i am so worried that they'll be unable to do so in the future. the saddest thing to me, and i came back to kansas this weekend to speak to the american legion state convention. we've become a place where veterans are e-mailing us with their concerns. they are growing. they're not diminishing. and this is -- we've got to make certain that there's a hope on the behalf of our veterans that this department that was created to care for them to provide the benefits in health care that they everyboarned is actually go be able to do that. >> absolutely. and we thank you for staying honest. we know there's bipartisan outrage and support for getting something done. senator moran, thank you, sir.

>> shannon, thanks for caring about this topic. >> we want to hear from you at home, should president obama now get directly involved in this v.a. scandal? if so, how do you think that would work? if not, why do you think he shouldn't get involved? tweet us your answers either way. we'll read some later on in this hour. well, he's former secretary of state hillary clinton should be held accountable for the benghazi attack that left four americans dead. that's former vice president dick cheney speaking out on fox news sunday. >> she was secretary of state at the time that it happened. she was one of the first in washington to know about it. i think she clearly bears responsibility for whatever the state department did or didn't do with respect to that crisis. >> tune into fox news sunday right after our show for the first joint interview of the former vice president and second lady since leaving the white house. you can see it here 2:00 and 6:00 eastern on the fox news channel. well, senate majority leader harry reid is once again

pointing the fingers at the coke brothers. he's pushing a constitutional amendment to limit campaign spending saying the senate could vote on that amendment within weeks. here to discuss ha and a possible white house cabinet shuffle is chris styrwall. not a lot of work getting done on the senate floor. >> what? >> and getting a constitutional amendment passed, no easy lift. what's really behind this outrage from the senate majority leader. >> first of all, welcome back to washington hardest working woman in the business. >> good to see you. >> nice to not be on this side of series of tubes. second thing, i wrote this week harry reid saying he was going to pass an constitutional amendment would be like donald sterling saying he was going to buy the new york yankees. >> good luck. >> not very probable. but it allows him to stage votes on an issue that fires up the democratic base, which not only would like the idea of more regulated campaign spending but would like the idea of taxpayer financed elections overall.

so that pleases -- that enforces difficult votes or what he thinks will be difficult votes for republicans. and it's something to do. but harry reid can't get the president's judicial nominees confirmed. >> even after changing the rules. >> right. they nuked the rules. they blew it up two centuries of tradition they torched that so they were going to pass all this stuff and now he can't even pass those things. basically meaningless these flum ri kind of bills election year things supposed to be passed to give people things to run on at home. he can't pass those. the senate has basically failed by every metric. so harry reid is sort of doubling down and saying, well, if we're going to live in the wasteland, let us maximize the waste. >> all right. but this comes at the same time we hear of a top billionaire donor and they're on both sides of the aisle. they're all over the place. tom stooir has given $5 million to a super pac aimed at keeping control in the senate and why is

there outrage over certain donors and not others. there are plenty on the democratic side that have supported harry reid as well. >> oh, yes. and regulations on the energy sector the democrats are putting forward. tom said could be $100 million from him and his confederates as they try to keep the senate in democratic hands. part of this is a smoke screen. you scream about the coke brothers, these two billionaire oil industry kansas, however, i think net-net this is a negative for the senate democrats because what is demanded by their donors, by their benefactors is more politically toxic, that is to say regulations on emissions that would be damaging to industrial states, states that rely on cheap electricity from coal and things like that. >> quickly want to ask you about

san antonio mayor julian castro may be coming to washington but this time maybe as a cabinet guy. he's got a lot of attention. he's an up kp comer in the democratic party. >> he's been a rising star for so long now. >> he's about to arose. >> he's about to have arosen. the castro brothers are favorites of the democratic establishment, two brothers, young, handsome latinos from san antonio, the city that texan democrats hope will become the base of their future majority long from now in that state. castro is -- he gave a great speech at the democratic convention. he was good. he hasn't -- they have basically a symbolic mayor's office in san anton antonio, doesn't really do anything. but washington's good at those kind of jobs, so he might be a perfect fit here. >> okay. chris, always good to see you. >> you bet. >> thanks for coming in. tens of thousands of evacuees are returning to their

homes in the hillsides of san diego. we're live with the very latest details. hello, dominic. >> reporter: hey there, shannon. there's new footage that's come out of the marine's camp pendleton north of san diego. it's quite impressive stuff. what you can see is a sway of the charred landscape. some 15,000 acres consumed. you can see from the video not just the scale but just how dry the land is and why it's so easily burnt. now, about 55% of the fire, the biggest one of all, is contained now. the other two are pretty much burnt out. but it's not been so definitive in the kind of fire that we've had in the southern part of the san diego county area. and that's because there's been quite a bit of moisture in some of the vegetation there that doesn't create what we call a clean burn. that in itself means we could see the flames come back to the

same areas here. >> the risk remains absolutely and actually when we get to the more santa ana timeframe, which is august, where we have the clean burn where it burns and there's nothing left. it can be a challenge for fire fighting. >> reporter: so kind of counterintuitive there. firefighters wish for a very clean burn because obviously they really don't want the fire to come back. that isn't going to happen here in san diego county. one thing also that's not going to happen is everybody's not going to be allowed back to their homes. evacuation orders still in place here in the coronado hills near san marcos. we think any time between 6:00 p.m. and perhaps tomorrow morning absolutely everybody will be allowed back. but that isn't the case because we've got some hot spots on the northeastern side of what was called the cocos fire. that will be completely contained by the end of the day today. but because it's been so much damage and it's so widespread, the fire crews want to make sure

it's absolutely safe. plus we've got power lines still down. and some of those power cables that were attached are actually alive. and not everybody can go back to their properties. a lot of frustration amongst residents because it's been four or five days for some of them and they want to see the extent of the damage and make sure homes are safe. back to you, shannon. >> dominic, thank you very much. coming up, a case of christian persecution that's getting worldwide attention. a court ordered death sentence for a pregnant woman all because of her faith. find out where it's happening, the justification by the court and whether anything can be done to stop it. and the dragon capsule heads home. we'll tell you what it left behind at the international space station. brian is standing by at rutgers. hello, brian. >> reporter: hello. just moments from speaking to his fellow graduates nearly four years after a devastating injury left him paralyzed below the neck. his remarkable inspirational story next.

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eastern this afternoon. well, just who is or isn't the commencement speaker at rutgers university today? the university caused confusion over its speakers a "miscommunication." some say that's an understatement. joining us with details from new jersey, brian. hello, brian. >> reporter: hi, shannon. first secretary of state condoleezza rice supposed to speak and she canceled because of pressure here at the university. students were going to protest. so then they invited a star defensive tackle. and then they uninvited him and it was a big miscommunication. he tells me he was hurt initially when they uninvited him, but he understands it was a miscommunication and he is ready to speak to his fellow graduates today. it has been a long road for eric. he was set to be an nfl star defensive tackle here at rutgers until october 16, 2010, when he suffered a terrible injury and paralyzed from the neck down.

when you talk to his mother and talk to him, there was never any doubt he would see this day that he would graduate. now, he is graduating just three months -- everything happened really just three months after the accident. he was a junior at rutgers and he really began his intense therapy sessions. but while he was doing these therapy sessions he was taking classes at the same time. take a listen. >> it wasn't easy. i was taking skype classes. trying to make it to a lot of my evening classes. i was meeting with tutors making sure i was having my assignments on time. so many dimpt things went into this. my mom driving me from therapy, stopping to get dinner real fast then going to evening class, not getting done until 9:00 at night. >> it was a lot. it was a lot for him. it was a lot for me also, but he was the one actually doing the work. i was just doing the chauffeuring back and forth. and i'm extremely proud of him that he's accomplished this. >> reporter: eric is graduating with a bachelor's degree in

labor relations. he wants to continue trying to become a sports caster. he also wants to continue his motivational speaking and continue to try to find a cure for paralysis. he told me, and he realizes, that he is the face for paralysis and he wants to continue to try to bring awareness and eventually a cure for such a terrible disease so many people are going through right now. he also told me that he is excited to be here and to be able to speak. he wants to tell people about his adversity and how he has overcome it. and, again, he is somebody who's just completely positive and inspirational. on a quit note on his therapy by the way, while we were interviewing him he was telling us he now has almost full movement of one of his arms. he can move it a little bit, he said. and he has full neck movement where he can kind of go like this. and that is a huge, huge improvement. doctors only gave him a 5% chance of ever walking again. but he's already doing things they told him he wouldn't be able to do. so, again, eric legrand is set to speak here at rutgers university on the football field in front of hundreds of his fellow classmates, a truly

inspirational journey coming full circle for him today. shannon. >> he is truly one of the most positive, determined, inspirational people i know i've ever met. sounds like you feel the same way. hopefully that will mean a lot to the students today. brian, thank you. well, conservative values cost them a tv show on hgtv and now there's a new twist. and she's pregnant, christian and sentenced to death in sudan. can anything be done to save this woman? and the deadly mers virus pops up in the u.s. again. an update from the cdc straight ahead. all stations come over to mission a for a final go. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one.

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more fallout from the ongoing crisis in ukraine. a bipartisan group of u.s. lawmakers wants the pentagon to

scrap contracts with russian. they have introduced legislation that would not only terminate existing u.s. contracts, but also ban future ones with the russian arms dealer. given russia's actions in ukraine is "business as usual is unacceptable." ukraine plans to hold its presidential election next sunday. but pro-russian separatists are threatening to derail the vote. greg is reporting on threats to the election and some are fighting back. he joins us now live. hi, greg. >> reporter: shannon, a pro-russian activist here today flatly said there will be no presidential elections here next sunday. and the ukrainian election officials this weekend are warning of trouble, but there are some towns in this region that are standing up against the rebel militants. at a cost. take a look. ukrainian flags flying at the city hall in eastern ukraine

town in a land wrath by pro-russian sentiment, it is a rare sight. the town actually reflects what polls show, that the majority in the east are still behind a united ukraine. ukrainian troops are posted just outside. still, dissent is felt here too. pro-russian graffiti can be seen. the police station was assaulted. something else new for the area, militias in favor of the ukrainian government. this is what pro-russia separatists did to the car of one member of a pro-ukraine self-defense unit in this town. they told us this just means they're going to fight harder. >> translator: someone doesn't like the fact we are defending our city, this militia member says, they are traitors. militias also patrol by car. and at night they're well-armed for trouble. but among the residents support for ukraine is cautious. yes, we are for a united ukraine, this young man says. but sometimes with everything happening people are afraid to

express their opinion. others in fact openly call for a break from kiev. to bring violence here. >> reporter: officials in the town tell us that they are planning to go ahead with that presidential vote. but they also tell us they are already getting threats. democracy a little bit difficult in this neck of the woods. back to you, shannon. >> it is tricky. greg, thank you very much. well, international outrage continues to grow over the death sentence a sudanese court handed down to a pregnant woman simply because she's a christian. the government's defending the verdict there, but notes it is only preliminary. the senior vice president for communications has written quite a bit on this issue. johnny, good to see you today. >> great to see you, shan non. >> some people say it's sudan, it's a different country, the u.s. should stay out of this. it's a horrific case, but we have no role. you say we have an obligation to get involved where people are

being persecuted because of their religion all over the globe. >> yeah. i mean, first of all it's a moral imperative. i think as we are a super power still in this place of history, which we occupy solely, we have a responsibility to stand up for the need of those around the world. but it's even deeper than that. it's good foreign policy to stand up for international religious freedom around the world. countries that have religious freedom are economically more prosperous, plolitically more stable, provide greater empowerment for women. when religion thrives, countries do better. but when religion is abused, it's -- we're seeing this attack on christians but people of faith generally speaking all over the world. and this incident is just the worst of all of them. >> yes, it is. we think about the hundreds of nigerian girls who were kidnapped and whose lives we assume are in great danger at this point. again, the folks who carried

that out, make no mistake, it seems like they're coming from religious ideology that would say these women must be converted, these girls must be converted. and if you don't do things our way, we're going to harm you. >> yeah, that's right. you can't miss the religion angle in what's happening here. i mean, this is a deliberate attempt to forcibly reconvert 200 christian girls. most of them are christians. and we just saw last week when boko haram put the video out of them dressing in islamic dress and behaving to their interpretation. there are lots of good muslims around the world, but these aren't. these are the same types of muslims that brought down the world trade center. what's happening here in the world that we're living in is that these radical people are putting unprecedented attacks on christians. and because nobody's doing anything, more and more people emboldened to do more of it. i mean, in the last year we've seen more attacks on christians in the middle east than in

previous 700 years combined. this incident in nigeria, bring back our girls, now we have a 27-year-old mother. this story is just incomprehensible. she's 27 years old. she has a 20-month-old child who's in a jail cell with her. she's eight months pregnant. and a sudanese court just convicted her of apostsi and adultery because her father who left her when she was 6 years old was a muslim, she grew up a christian her entire life. but because her father was a muslim and she's a christian, she's guilty. and because she married a u.s. man, christian no less, so she's -- they're going to hang the woman. it's amazing that people aren't just in uproar around the world. and i think the answer is both a public policy answer. i think the united states government needs to do more. for instance, we have vacant ambassadorship of international religious freedom. it's been vacant for eight months. the president three months ago said he looked forward to appointing to someone to that

position. we've got to get moving on this because these incidence are getting worse. people are dying and the bad actors feel more emboldened to do more and more. there's no coincidence that the nations that we fear the most, nations like iran and north korea and the failed states around the horn of africa are also nations where the worst acts of religious discrimination are taking place. we have to do something now as individual citizens we need to go to social media and write our politicians. i'm jumping on the #savemarion. we need to raise our voices and the united states government needs to do more. >> we thank you for your input. you have compelling pieces on foxnews.com. we'll keep an eye on all of these issues. thank you. >> thank you. did public pressure force a major bank to backtrack on a controversial decision? our panel will debate the case of the brothers who reportedly lost their upcoming hgtv show

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when the irs scandal broke last year, officials for the agency blamed low level employees in a cincinnati office for targeting conservative groups. judicial watch has obtained new irs e-mails and documents that directly challenge that claim and seem to point straight to washington. executive director for the american center for law and justice, which is representing several of these groups who have tried to obtain nonprofit status say they were targeted. what do you make of this new information? people say leave this alone, there's nothing to it. there have been multiple investigations. why are we just now seeing these e-mails? >> yeah, i mean, what this does is put to rest the idea this wasn't washington focused. we kind of knew this in the past from other e-mails from lois lerner and others. but this was a forward from 2012 to the inspector general from holly -- all these d.c. -- people in our lawsuit that we've

sued. it says we're coordinating this with cinci. we're handling this out of washington and things can't move forward without washington's approval. so the talking point democrats have used, and i say this because it's become very partisan, it's democrats, they say somehow it's employees that don't understand the law. that's done now, but we'll see if that translates into reality in washington. >> there was some other information there, there's the bolo list, be on the look out list, and there's more information involving lois lerner and references to tea party, to patriots, there was very specific guidance it sounded like with respect to these kinds of groups. >> yeah. it was telling -- what is a tea party group? that is what she was asked? how do these employees know what to look for. it wasn't just the name. critical of the government, critical of the obama administration or they care about affecting their community and they could have an impact. now, if you put that together, that's what c-4s are supposed to do. they're supposed to care about their community and potentially

have an impact. yet that was a reason to flag them. under those definitions you wouldn't see a lot of liberal groups meet that that were against higher debt and lower taxes, that were critical of the obama administration. >> we also saw there was some irs guidance called heightened awareness issues and different slides or information passed along. we understand when it talked about tea party cases, there's like a big warning signal with an exclamation point that came up next to their name as part of this presentation. >> what we see there is, okay, again, another reason they're telling the staff don't let this move forward. so they effectively shut down the approval process for these groups. they made sure out of washington, d.c., it wasn't cincinnati officials, that these groups could not get approval without them taking action. so they basically said when you see this, send it on up to us. and that is a part of this scandal which, again, we have got to make clear to everybody this puts to bed the idea this was people in ohio who didn't know how to do their job. that's really not fair. these people were not allowed to

do their job. >> quickly, the information continues to trickle out. what happens? is there going to be any accountability? where does this wind up? >> you know, it's one of those tough issues where you've got all this information but we keep getting it piece by piece. we have to put the timeline together for everybody. i think we can't live in a fairy tale world. this is not going to be taken care of by attorney general holder. it's going to take cases like our civil cases, the house of representatives, it's the only way we're going to get the truth. it's not about putting someone in jail for a year, the truth is not letting this happen again and let the 11 clients we have who still don't have an answer from the irs on whether they're going to get their status, some have been waiting five years. that's what it's about, correcting the wrongs. >> jordan, always good to see you. thanks for comingen. health officials are reporting the first person-to-person spread of the mers virus in the u.s. the cdc says an illinois man has contracted the often fatal middle east respiratory symptom from the only american diagnosed with this mysterious virus. luckily so far the tests show

this man does not need serious medical treatment. did public pressure force a banking giant to reverse a decision to cut business ties with two conservative brothers over their religious beliefs? latest details. stay tuned. okay, listen up! i'm re-workin' the menu. mayo? corn dogs? you are so outta here! aah! [ female announcer ] the complete balanced nutrition of great-tasting ensure. 24 vitamins and minerals, antioxidants, and 9 grams of protein. [ bottle ] ensure®. nutrition inharge™. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. [ male announcer ] just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. [ corrine ] super poligrip is part of my life now.

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david and jason, the north carolina brothers who say they lost their hgtv show over their conservative values are back in the news. here's what they told us about their religious beliefs last week when they joined us. >> what david and i say is that in the embodiment of jesus christ, you have perfect love and perfect truth. see, truth is a person, love is a person. that's why we talk so much about jesus is that when you bring jesus into the equation, you've brought love and you've brought truth. and there's no fear in that. so i can go and i can proclaim jesus. and that's truth. and it's love. and there's no fear in that. >> well, this week suntrust bank reportedly cut business ties with these real estate entrepreneurs, but once that decision went public the bank said to clarify third party vendors were to blame and suntrust clarified policies with the vendors and the business

relationships with the brothers were restored. what really happened? let's talk about it with fox news contributor and radio show host richard fowler. good to see you both. >> good to see you. >> richard, i want to start with you. what do we think went on here? it was a little confusing the conversation we had with suntrust and franchisees who told a slightly different story. end of the day there was a big blow up and they're back in business together, what do you make of it? >> i think suntrust realized they were probably going to take a major loss by leaving the brothers behind. so they said, hey, listen, that's for suntrust's pockets and we're going to bring them back. and hgtv made it for their pockets by keeping them off the airways. >> they consider this a business sedition and they get that. they seemed more confused and startled by the suntrust decision because that's business they're doing. this is banks, it's lending. angela, what do you make of it? >> at the end of the day with

what they were speaking from their spirituality, jesus will always stand. and billions of dollars a part of this from religion, so you are going to have people that are going to protest if people speak out, shannon, on their personal beliefs and get crucified for it, no pun intended. >> businesses do have a lot of leway with certain things, but when you look at lending laws and other business laws, you can't discriminate on the basis of any number of criteria, and in a lot of cases that does include religion. richard, where does that leave us in this conversation when somebody has a controversial belief, whether it's a christian, atheist, jewish person, muslim, if a bank or someone else says i don't like what you have to say, so even many the united states where we have the first amendment and all other kinds of free speech protection, we're not going to do business with you. is that ever going to work? >> i think the marketplace

dictates that, shannon, and in this particular situation, oh -- in the guise of market -- we're going to back track and get this money back, and i think that's what it is for them, and i think on the other hand where i see where angela is coming from this whole business of oppression and the evangelical, it has everything to do with the marketplace is changing and the appetite for people wearing religion on their sleeve has also changed sfwloosh let's look at chic fil-a. you had the mayor of washington d.c., let's protect chic-fil-a because of the ceo's stance on same-sex marriage, and people came out in droves to support him. i think you cannot legislate morals and values. >> i completely agree. >> you cannot discriminate people for their personal beliefs or their sexual orientation or their race. >> i agree00%, and i don't think

hdtv is wrong there. because of that they decided not to bring those brothers on, and in sun trust's case, listen, whether it's gay money or purple money or orange money or green money, it's all green. >> it does all -- is there space for both sides to coexist and we saukd about the benham brothers and can you say we disagree on this particular issue, but i'm want going to destroy one side or the other? is there space in our -- in 2014 to have that conversation? >> you are supposed to love all and not judge. there's room for all, but it seems today that if people weigh in different on gay marriage or abortion issues, then they're ost are a sized, and i think there can be a balance here, but we need to have a conversation about it. >> when you think about -- it was very difficult because the head of the company had donated to prop 8, which was preserving traditional marriage in california. >> in california.

>> years before. i hi it was $1,000. he is no longer heading up that -- >> do you think thafgs a proper use of the market forces? >> i think it was. the idea of an lgbt becoming more and more mainstream, you have more rosie o'donnells and ellen degenerous, you'll continue to see the marketplace continue to shift. if you look from a biblical standpoint, you look about who jesus criticized the most, the pharocies. the most religious of them were criticized because of the hypocrisies. love your neighbor as yourself. love your neighbor as gay, black, hispanic. love them as you would love yourself and respect them. >> that's why i was happy when the gay community came out and protest when the ceo had to step down from mozilla by saying he had every right to make that donation. he was a good ceo. i think we're all going to have a balance here. >> we got to leave it there, but good to have the conversation. thank you both very much. when we come back, it's mefr too late, and we're going to introduce you to a man who

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this video may look like something out of a westminster dog show, but check it out. those aren't dogs. those are cute little rabbits. this is a rabbit jumping contest held in london. rabbit jumping. of course, jumping competition. it started in sweden. too cute. all right. talk about being a life-long learner. it may have taken 70 years, but an ohio man is finally seeing his dream come true.

90-year-old walter bunk is now a freshly minted graduate of xavier university. he dropped out of college in 1941 to join the army, over the decades he has been taking various college classes, and last year he found out he was only two credits shy of a degree. after an independent study, he now holds a bachelor in liberal arts. wow. thank you for your service, sir, and congratulations. that's amazing. time for our twitter question. we've been asking you at home, should president obama get directly involved in the v.a. scandal? mary says obama should get involved in the v.a., but want if he can't find someone in his circle that really cares about a real solution. robert says, no, the last thing we need is the president to try to get involved with the v.a. we immediate true action and not just tack. douglas says he will not fwet involved. he doesn't want the blame. no leadership. gary says this. obama should not get involved because everything he touches, like benghazi, health care, and the irs is a failure. thank you for sharing your opinio opinions.

i'm chris wallace. s former vice president dick cheney and his wife, lynn, in their first joint interview since leaving the white house. >> there has developed over the years of the obama administration, i think, a sense on the part of others that we have a weak government. >> we discuss ukraine, ben fwauzy, and ask mrs. cheney why on earth they would want to see lewinsky back in the public eye. dick and lynne cheney only on fox news sunday. >> the controversy over hillary clinton. >> i think she had a traumatic brain episode. >> she is