in prison for being a christian. go to facebook.com/thekellyfile. thanks for watching us, everybody. have a great weekend. this is "the kelly file". this is a fox news alert. departure day at the white house. president obama announced the resignation of veterans affairs secretary shin seccseki. jay carn-- hello, everyone. for the latest on the two resignations announced today, let's turn to fox's own ed

henry. ed? >> good to see you. what an intense day here. jay carney has been fielding tough questions about shinseki for weeks now. suddenly they're both gone. let's start with the less surprising departure, shinseki. the president decided not to fire him. he reluctantly accepted his resignation when they met in the oval office this morning. this morning here in washington, he gave a speech to a homeless veterans group and laid out a plan of action. democrats close to the white house tell me they think since administration officials had put out the word over the last 24 hours the president lost confidence in shinseki they were sending him a signal to resign. to spare the president the difficult task of firing a war

hero. questions lingering about the president's own leadership style. the president said that shinseki was shocked by the fact that all these problems were developing. republicans quickly noted the president's come out and said he didn't know very much about the va, the irs, or the health care botched roll out until after it happened. listen. >> and i think he's deeply disappointed in the fact that bad news did not get to him and that the structures weren't in place for him to identify this problem quickly and fix it. >> he's not decisive. he doesn't make decisions quickly. he doesn't seem to really surround himself with really good people. >> in the afternoon, the president made yet another rare appearance here in the briefing room interrupting jay carney's daily briefing saying he had a personnel announcement saying carney was leaving. there's no connection between

the departures of shinseki and carney. the president wanted to get both moves out of the way before he heads to europe on monday night. particularly in the case of shinseki. one of the stops will be at normandy for the 70th anniversary of d-day. the bottom line is the president wanted to get shinseki out before having to go there. >> at least he didn't say he read about the resignations in the newspaper. >> that's right. >> dana perino will be here later with reaction. sally barnes breen and deborah allen, thank you both for being here. >> thank you. >> sally, i have read your story. both of your stories have brought me to tears.

how do you feel about today's news? is it enough that he's stepping down? >> not at all. this is not intriguing me in the least, no. >> deborah, what do you think it's going to take? i know there is nothing they can do to make this up. the massive mismanagement and failure. what would you like to see co coming from the white house? >> that people would be held accountable, no matter how big the person is. this was a criminal thing that was done to our family. my husband, her pop. they need to spend some time in jail. they need to return their bonuses. they need to give it to struggling families now who don't have a husband or stepfather or father-in-law in their life anymore.

i'm destitute. my husband had the only income in the family. and they're just worried about their stupid little bonuses. >> sally, i think -- go ahead. >> you asked me first. it's okay. >> same question to you. what would you like to see this white house, this administration, do? >> for me, this is totally not enough. then to see the president like depressed that his shinseki was leaving really broke my heart because they all did injustice to my pop. what they really have to do first is get more doctors in there because as we speak, there's people suffering and dying now, right now. this should have been done decades ago. they have $5 billion to help the

va. where's it going? other than my pop, this kid davis vargas is my kid's uncle. he died too on january 7th 2012 of lack of care. they od'd him in medication. the president is responsible for this because he knew of this. he made speeches in 2000 or 2001 or 2002. i promise. he didn't deliver. to me, that's criminal regardless he's the president. now to see him defend shinseki and all the people that had done this to our families and more, i can't get pop or david back, could i? >> no. >> but they could give back to

the va by helping them now. yes, you fired them, but now you got to put criminal charges. and to personally obama, middle east -- he's in on this criminal activity because he's an accomplice. >> i think the way to fix this is to dismantle the system. for years, we have seen both republicans and democrats claim to care about veterans, but all they care about behind closed doors are getting reimbursements and money. the va is fully funded. the same problems with this va are the same issues you see with single payer in europe. you're going to see more of those unfortunate deaths. i'm so sorry for your loss. >> can i say something? >> very quickly.

>> no matter what they do, they have to get to the stem and root just like cancer that my dad, my pop, my husband's father died of. they have to get to the root. they have to fire everybody, hold them accountable, fix the va now right this minute. >> sally, deborah, thank you so much for being here. i'm very sorry for your loss. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. my next guest does not believe his resignation will solve the problems with the va. fixing this mess ultimately falls on obama. joining me now is utah senator mike lee. you did not call for shinseki to step down. do you agree that this whole system of the way the va is set up is a mess? it doesn't work. >> it's a mess that doesn't work.

the thing speaks for itself. their results speak for themselves here. for the fact that this system doesn't work. but yeah, i didn't call for shinseki's resignation because his resignation isn't going to solve this problem. what's going to solve this problem is aggressive digging. whether we do that under the leadership of shinseki or someone else isn't going to make a material difference. what is going to make a material difference is policies we adopt going forward. >> what would you propose? >> one measure is senate bill 2013. there's a house version of it sponsored by representative jeff miller which passed overwhelmly in the house just in the last few days. the secretary of the veterans administration needs to have the authority to fire or demote anyone for performance related

reasons, even senior executive service employees based on their performance, their nonperformance. that would make a huge difference. in this instances, the secretary lacks the authority. that's a big problem. >> senator, it is not even an hr issue of getting rid of bureaucrats. the way this system is set up there are no incentives for performance. you have a single payer system that has the same problems we see in europe. a doctor shortage, corruption. would you support any kind of vouchers? i've said on the "five" perhaps a charter hospital for our veterans. >> i tend to agree at a minimum they ought to have the option if they want to go into the private system. you're right to point out if this doesn't speak to the failures of a single payer

system, i don't know what does. if this is how we treat our nation's heros, the greatest americans who have sacrificed life and limb for us to protect our freedom, if this is how we treat them, how are we going to treat average, everyday, ordinary citizens? >> no offense to you, senator. but your colleagues up in the senate have spent some money on dumb stuff that could have been funded for these veterans at private hospitals. thank you so much. coming up, we'll have more reaction to shinseki's resignation from the va. plus, dana perino is here reacting to jay carney stepping down as white house press secretary.

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this is a fox news alert. mass exodus from the white house

today. eric shinseki stepped down over the growing misconduct at va hospitals nationwide. hours later president obama announced jay carney was also stepping down just one week after his office leaked the identity of the top covert cia agent in afghanistan. least be clear, they were not fired for their failures. they both willingly stepped down. joining a long list of cabinet members to have survived scandal. kathleen sebelius botched the roll out of obamacare, but she wasn't fired. hillary clinton wasn't fired either. eric holder, he was not fired. lastly, although lois lerner --

was not fired. what does it take to be fired by president obama? here with reaction is juan williams and colonel alan west. what does it take? does president obama not have the stomach to sign the pink slip? what is it? >> i'm amused by that litany you just read. i think it is extreme. i don't think it's accurate, but i think you're on to a point about accountability. i think everybody has to be held accountable, but loyalty is all a factor. i think president obama is shy about throwing people under the bus. in the case of eric shinseki, there's a large dose of regret all around. nobody thinks he was out to hurt veterans. they think he's a decorated military hero, a general, someone who cared deeply about

the veterans and today indicated he was lied to. i think you're going to see more heads roll down the line and possibly criminal investigations about people who were lying to get bonuses from the government. >> i do think general shinseki was committed. i think he wanted to finish the mission. colonel west, what do you think about this? if anyone should have been fired, it should have been holder, sebelius, lerner. what about being loyal to the veterans? >> i think it's a very tough decision up there because a lot of it has to do with the politics surrounding it. if you start to fire people, let's be honest, the media is going to look at that as blood in the water and sharks are going to come out. in the case of general shinseki,

he was the chief of staff in the united states army. a lot of the things that were happening under his watch in the va, if there were problems in a subordinate corps, he would have fired that commander. there's a little bit something different when it comes to the bureaucracy of washington, d.c. when it comes to the politics of people not wanting to sense a type of failure or weakness in your administration. i think that's why you saw this clearly come out on a friday. >> the infamous friday afternoon dump, juan williams. we're very familiar with that having worked in the media. you for many years. me for not as many as you. juan, why do you think that is? colonel west brings up a very good point. the president, he likes to keep people in place.

he doesn't want them to smell blood in the water. it's all about him. do you think that's it or do you think it's keep them in place so they can block and tackle for him and take the heat off him and he can just go about his business? then when he weants to replace them, they can die and go away. >> i think colonel west was on target when he said the american media today is so polarized. it's blood in the water. it takes on a whole different dimensi dimension. this is something that's been deeply embedded in terms of wait times for the va for a long time. it's been kpaexacerbated by theo wars. now you have congress giving benefits to people who are ageing and eligible for treatment and then they don't back it up with money.

i wonder if we're not being overly generous at some point because everybody loves veterans. >> colonel west, so what if there's blood in the water? who cares? a good manager says whether it is the irs, whether it's department of justice, the alphabet soup of mismanagement, a good manager, a good leader has the stomach to have heads roll. don't you think that more people should have been let go by now? >> well, you're right at the end. when you start to look at the bureaucracy that's there in washington d.c. is effective operations. what you see happening, especially in the veterans

administration, how could you say is the senior administration that you were not aware of something was going on. how could you say as the president in the white house, i just found out about it? what type of update reports, what type of statuses are being received or asked for by the obama administration by the people in charge up in washington, d.c. of these government agencies and bureaucracies? we need to make sure that we have good oversight in a lot of these committees. i'm very upset with the senate saying they needed to deliberate even more over a three-page report piece of legislation that just says we need to be able to hold va administrators responsible and be able to fire them. i think there's a lot5kç of p

cupability in washington, d.c. jay carney is stepping down as the white house secretary less than a week after his office leaked the identity of the top cia agent in afghanistan. as if he doesn't have enough on his plate, he's attacking the issue of violence in sports. i make a lot of purchases for my business.

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this is a fox news alert. just hours after accepting the resignation of va secretary eric shinseki, president obama made a surprise appearance in the briefing room and announced that jay carney is stepping down as white house press secretary. this comes just days after carney's office leaked a cia agent's identity in afghanistan. >> he's a great press secretary and a great adviser. he has good judgment and good temperament and he's got a good heart. and i'm going to miss him a lot. i will continue to rely on him

as a friend and ai adviser aftee leaves. >> joining me now with reaction is my cohost on "the five," dana perino. >> it's great to be here with you. >> dana, what are your thoughts on all of this? i get the sense that jay probably wanted to leave for a long time. >> the press secretary job is one that i think is extremely special. it changed my life. it's an honor to work for a president and have president obama express that kind of confidence in jay carney, i can't imagine how fulfilled and joyous jay carney felt at that. no matter how beleaguered he's been, they have a very special relationship. that's something nobody can takeawtak

take away from them. marlin fitswater who was press secretary under reagan and stayed for the first bush term for 41 stayed in that job for eight years. there was no internet then. fox news was not even a glimmer. we had nothing like that at the time. the job changes dramatically with how much preparing you have to do and how on call you are constantly. the job he did in the late 90s compared to the one i did in the latter part of 2007 and 2008 were completely different jobs. when i was there to when jay carney was there, the technology leaps were so dramatic that i don't think anybody could have done the job for much longer than jay carney did it. >> he looked exhausted yesterday

asking him about the president's confidence. he looked like he'd had enough. do you think he did a good job? i ask you this because you worked for a boss who had a very clear vision, who gave very specific goals. it was easier for you to do a job even though you had a tougher press corps than jay carney did. do you think it was tougher for jay carney to do his job? >> we probably won't hear about that for a while until jay carney decides what he's going to reveal about that. i worked for president bush who was guided by a very set principals. he didn't waiver from them. i could answer a question from the press by saying, he would do this or that. sometimes i would take a risk and not talk to him beforehand,

but i never screwed up. i think the press corps has changed a lot too. you think about that time during the reagan administration. all these great careers of amazing journalists there were born out of that administration -- now you're starting to see some. i think ed henry is in that category. chuck todd, some people who you would say he's there. jonathan carl of abc news. things have changed a lot. the other thing that's happened is president obama and the chief of staff have probably told all the staffers if you think you cannot go the distance until january 20th 2017, it's okay. we appreciate your service. we need you to head out now because we need people who are established. the guy who is taking over now is a safe and steady choice for

him now. i thought they would go with somebody from the outside to shake things up a little bit. president oba >> i thought he would go with a female. >> the war on women is raging. >> jay has to be the happiest guy right now in the whole country. what do you think he's going to do tomorrow morning? and i want to know what you did the morning after your last day of work at the white house? >> it's a little bit different. the happiest person in america is not jay carney. it's his wife. tomorrow morning he'll be able to say, i'm not going to read the paper right now. i'm going to read the paper at 10:00. he can rely on his deputies. he's going to stay for a while. they have serious problems at the va. in addition, they have something very interesting coming up. next week hillary clinton's book is going to be released.

this is kind of her review of her career so far and we think her foundation for her campaign to come. she's going to have to do some very interesting things to align herself with president obama and distance herself. my best advice for jay carney is to stay out of it. you're going to get a fight and it's going to be about hillary versus barack obama. it's going to be hard for them to swallow any sort of the distancing she's going to have to do. >> it's going to be a very careful dance. it's going to have to be a skilled person at that podium. all of the democrats are going to be trying to put distance between themselves and president obama. you didn't answer my question. what did you do the next day after? >> i woke up in scotland because my husband and i left after we said good-bye to the president.

we flew overseas and we saw my husband's children and my step grandchildren. i'm a grandmother. >> you are. grandmother america. >> i got as far away from there as i could. then i went to africa. >> you're the best looking grandma i know. >> not according to bob beckel who dissed me earlier. coming up next -- >> we have to have every parent, coach, and teacher recognize the signs of concussions and we need athletes to understand how important it is to do what we can to prevent injuries. >> with all the scandals plaguing the white house at the moment, why is president obama interfering in football? later, ever get into a confrontation with a liberal and

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i did not know what it was like to be a non-smoker. but i do now. ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. welcome back to "hannity." as the va scandal continued to unravel, president obama took time out of his busy schedule yesterday for a summit on concussions. tackling violence in football is at the top of his priority list. take a listen. >> we have to have every parent, coach, teacher recognize the signs of concussions and we need athletes to understand how important it is to do what we can to prevent injuries and to admit them when they do happen. we have to change a culture that says, you suck it up. identifying a concussion and being able to self-diagnose that

this is -- this is something that i need to take care of doesn't make you weak. it means you're strong. >> joining me now with reaction is lou holtz. thank you for being here. he's talking about it on a day when veterans are dying. do you think this is any of his business? >> let me get this straight. we have our economy contracted 1% less quarter. we have a marine in mexico because he made a wrong turn. he's in prison. we have the wife of a u.s. citizen who is been sentenced to die because she's a christian. then we have a va scandal. i asked an officer in the army and he said seven years ago, this is the problem. we have it to get it done.

he's had one meeting with the secretary of the veterans administration. one meeting. one cabinet meeting in six months. as a leader, you sit down with the secretary of the va and you said, i promised. what are you doing to solve it? how do we get it done? what can i do to help? i don't believe that's his obligation. no doubt concussions are a problem, but you can eliminate that by taking the face mask off the helmet. >> it seems to me, coach, he has a problem with football. you remember this quote earlier this year. i would not let my son play profootball. it's sort of the feeling i have about smokers, you know? why doesn't he like football? >> he has a right to say that, but the football has been my life. i've seen thousands of peoples

lives change because they've become good fathers and husbands and good workers. football is a great support. if you play football, you have to be held accountable and you have an obligation to other people. you have to work hard and sacrifice. doesn't matter about race or creed or financial status. it's all about productivity and what you do. let's look at a sport called rugby. it's tackle football but they don't wear a helmet. why aren't there all kinds of concussions there? because they don't use their head. everybody uses their head. you tackled. you wrapped your arms et cetera. i think football is a great sport. we have to do something about it. i don't think that's the president's obligation when he has so many other things he's responsible for. he's not making suggestions anymore. he's making decisions. when i was the head football coach, i would have to call in a

staff member for a problem. gee, i heard about it on the news. >> coach, you, i'm sure, learned a lot of lessons on the football field. i think there's a lot of valuable lessons for playing a team sport like football. concussions are an issue. you mentioned the way of tackling is a problem. who do you think should address this issue? is it the nfl, the players union? what else can we do to fix this aside from having the president hold summits? >> i think it's the obligation of everybody including the coaches and the nfl and the players as well. i told them, that's your obligation about your safety. don't use your head. you could get hurt. don't expect me to come to your aid. you're responsible for your health. don't use your helmet because if

you do, you aren't going to play for me. >> do you think the players want the president to get involved? how do you think the players feel about this? >> i think everybody likes to see the president. he's a great speaker, a father, a great man i'm sure. take care of the things that you were hired to do, what you were elected to do, and the things that you promised you would get done. you promised in '09 you would get it done. how do you get to the bottom of something? that's why harry truman says the buck stops here. you have people that answer to you and you're responsible for it. >> he could have cancelled the summit. he could have gone to a va hospital instead. there's no pressing reason why he should have sat down to talk about football. football could have waited in my opinion.

any final thoughts, coach? you hit the nail on the head. the veterans have to come first. there are so many other issues besides football. >> i agree with you completely. as i say, i'm a citizen. i'm proud of this country. i was born with a silver spoon in my mouth. i was born in this country. i was taught about responsibility and about your obligation to other people. life is a matter of making choices. when you have a staff, it's up to you to make sure they're being productive and get the problems solved. coming up, have you ever gone to a barbecue and have a liberal drive you crazy when they talk about politics? next we have the perfect answers for you. that and more as "hannity" continues. rm cq,

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you're going to be in the company of some liberal family and friends. what do you do when they want to talk politics? here to break down the scenario is an author of the book "the forgotten man." your book was given to me as a gift by bill smith, who i used to work for. it's fantastic. kudos to you for that. first question, barbecues. liberals. you're a conservative columnist in new york. what's some advice for dealing with them, especially when they start to talk about obamacare issues or defending this administration besides drink a lot of vodka? >> think about the past. that's what this book is. when you have these conversations, whichever side you're on, it always comes back

to the new deal and franklin roosevelt and how the government saved everybody in the 1930s. but what if the government didn't? that's what the forgotten man is about. it is a graphic novel. it's the cartoon version of forgotten man that shows unfortunately in the 1930s the government made it worse. >> wasn't it world war ii that got us out of the great depression? i know that's what liberals want to go to. you have to be armed with the facts. you have to be an avid reader. you have to know your stuff. >> both sides know this too. in the 1930s, unemployment stayed above 10%. we wouldn't accept that. what about the dow?

how is the market doing? it never came back in the 1930s. it came back in 1954. what was wrong with the economic policy of big government? it failed us in the 1930s. start with the facts. what this book does -- i want to mention the artist -- is to draw all that for the young eer generation. one-third of english as a second language teacher use illustrations to teach. i don't think they're stupid at all. they're not dumbing down. if conservatives or free marketers or fair minded people want to win the future, we have to teach the past and share the past in this new colorful medium. >> especially if liberals are calling for the same plans and

the same programs and the same ideas that i have been calling for since the 1940s and they failed. >> i would say progressives. minimum wage. in this book, what you see is that minimum wage moves in the 1940s made unemployment worse. it's pretty much common sense. an employer says i have to pay this higher wage, so maybe i'll be a little slower to rehire. maybe i'll lay off faster. that was the epic tragedy of the great depression, that so much unemployment persisted for so long. a lot of economists have come forward with new data to support the argument that the minimum wage data in the 30s made it worse. i'm from the calvin coolidge

foundation. he would veto va. he would veto extra support for veterans. he loved veterans, but he knew corruption would follow. >> it gives you a good history of the past so you can be armed for what the progressives are proposing in our future. pick up her new book "the forgotten man," the graphic edition. coming up, we have more "hannity" right after the break. stay with us. [ male announcer ] are your joints ready for action?

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welcome back to "hannity". that is all the time we have left this evening. welcome back to "hannity." that's all the time we have left

this evening. thank you for being with us. sean will be back on monday. have a great weekend, everybody.