vacuous when writing to the factor. ms. megan warming up in the bullpen. i'm bill o'reilly, please always remember the spin stops here, because we're definitely looking out for you. . breaking tonight, new developments on a major storm moving up the east coast and new political fallout from our exclusive interview from domestic terrorist bill ayers. good evening and welcome to the kelly file. the big news about this major storm threatening fourth of july plans for millions. first, though, the final part of our exclusive interview with the domestic terrorist turned college professor who helped launch the political career of our current president. in 2008, professor bill ayers was introduced to america as the founder of the violent radical group the weather underground, that introduction came when it

was discovered that ayers, a man who hid from the fbi for a decade helped launch the political career of a young chicago politician by the name of barack obama. a man who was seeking the oval office. so how exactly did that happen? and what are we to make of that? we'll get to that. but first, you need to know how ayers came to talk with us. that happened when he agreed to join a filmmaker right here on this set, for a special we will air in full this fourth of july at 9:00 p.m. eastern in a debate about america. watch. >> let's start with that, whether america is a force for good. he says in the movie, professor ayers that one side, his side believes it's exceptionally good and the other side believes it's exceptionally bad. >> what other side? >> is that your side? >> i don't believe there's two sides. i have a very different view, i

think that america plays a role that's body good and bad in the world that there's a tradition in america that i strongly support and it's the tradition of disdense, it's the tradition of radicals, it's the tradition of revolutionaries, so you can see from the givbeginning, the first bill of rights was the push from below, the al boll igsist move. these are things that are great in the american movement and it's important and that is that people can affect the outcome of national policy, they can become a force for good and that to me is one of the great things about america. >> no matter the means necessary? >> it depends, of course the means matter. >> where ever could i be going? >> where could you be going? of course the means matter, but the point is, if you look back in history, you say who are the people that we remember for all the great things they did?

even if you take, say, abraham lincoln, linden johnson, he was never part of the black freedom movement, he responded to a black freedom movement on the ground. same thing with abe lincoln, he never responded to a black freedom movement. did john brown do the right thing by hurling his entire life and his family against slavery? he did. >> you named two presidents to start off with, our commanders in chief, who signed bills into law and abide by, not in all circumstances, but are expected to abide by the rule of law, something that you have often flouted. >> both of these presidents were actually responding to movements that didn't always abide by the rule of law. the civil rights movement t black freedom movement, broke the law consistently and that was part of the strength and beauty of it. the black freedom movement grew and evolved every minute, every

day. the kind of story we tell about it today is mostly a myth and mostly not true, but the push for justice, the push for equality, the push for participati participation, is something that was magnificent. lincoln was responding -- we. >> we happen odd to be in the spirit of revolution. the american founders far from being status owe guys, broke the law themselves t law of the british crown and established a country based upon principles of christianity. if you look at -- john brown was powerfulfully motivated business christianity. martin luther king says i'm submitting a promissory note. who you a promissory note? not the southern segregationists, it was thomas

jefferson. so a virginia slave owner wrote the charter that martin luther king relied upon to have a civil rights movement in the first place. if you didn't have radicalism, the radicalism itself is parasittic upon the principles of 1776. >> you say the terrorists who bombed the pentagon in our past thought they were doing good because america was bad. and you turned out to be referring to not the 911 al qaeda terrorists but professor ayers group, the weather underground. this goes back to means, you get in your head that america is bad, it needs to be changed and you pursue any means necessary to evoke that change. that equates you to actual terrorists who bombed us on 9/11. >> the american revolution was violent and it was illegal. so you're not always against illegal violence, you're only against it when you think it's against the things you believe

in. but the reality is that we were never terrorists and he does call us terrorist s and that's not true. terrorism is force and coercion intended to spread terror and panic. we never killed anyone, we did noisy loud very open destruction of property at a time when 6,000 people a week were being murdered by our government. 6,000 a week. >> that's what you were objecting to? >> objecting? >> we're going to talk about that in second segment. but that's what professor ayers believes, like many other radicals in our country's history the ends does justify the means. what recourse do you have but to push the envelope and in some circumstances break the law. >> well, first of all there was a big difference between martin luther king breaking the law,

because he broke the law nonviolently. if i break the law, i should accept the penalties of breaking the law. i'm going to call the law into question more because i believe in the goodness of the american people. bill ayers represent what is i would call the spirit of 17 -- he saw vietnam as a met for and went right back into american history and reinterpreted american history. the african-americans, the mexicans, so this became a kind of anti-americanism that was fostered in america and it became pervasive in our schools, our colleges, so our culture has been shaped by this. >> both of you are acting like the ends justifying the means is absolutely from mars, but when

your ends are in question, you're all for it. and you act as if the reinterpretation of history was some kind of fiction. we did commit genocide against native americans and we did enslave people for 250 years. and the question, could you be a moral person and own slaves, i think is something that you dodge. and so what i would say, is look, what i would say is, you need to look at the thing honestly and don't be afraid that we did terrible, terrible things in history, and in order to get right with the world we have to repair that history. >> but we shouldn't go into debt for something we didn't do. the american indian populati populationationipopulatio populationatipopulation

ationing. it's because the whites man brought with him zzs to which the native americans did not have any immunities so they perished in large numbers. the europeans, one-third of the population in europe earlier had been wiped out by the black plague, where did that come from? asia. so with the migration of people, diseases go from civilization to civilization. >> do you think there's a reflexive instinct in many on the left, or to the left of the left as i guess you are, to blame america first? i thought it was interesting in one of your books, the question was, who do you think are great americans, what do you think is so great about america, and you named edward snowden and chelsey mad on. you think they're traitors. >> what amused me, jeremy hammond is a chicagoan, so is

daniel ellsberg. i wanted to scream at the television, yeah, and daniel ellsberg wasn't daniel ellsberg before he was daniel ellsberg, in other words he was also called treasonous, it's only later that we catch up with the reality. shouldn't we have a transparent government? should we allow them to close the door and allow them to act with impunity? >> only 40% of those who identify as solid wlliberals describe themselves as proud to be american, compared to the roughly 70% who describe themselves as conservatives. why do you think that so few liberals are not proud to be an american? >> i'm not proud to be an american and i don't buy the american exceptionalism at all. the reason i'm not proud to be

an american is because the damage that we do around the world is so serious and so ongoing so if you look anywhere in the world, look all through latin america, ordinary people on the street, they stood up to america. >> we stood up to some people too. germany. >> i understand and that was us at our best. >> why don't you think about the good when you think about what america is? >> i often think about the good, i wouldn't call myself an american exceptionalist. i'm a human being, i believe we should be struggling with the question what does it mean to be human in the 21st century. what is it that's required of us. we're 5% of the population, beshould think of ourselves as a people among people, not as an exceptional people. you say actions that are done by

us versus other people are different based on who does them. >> exceptionalism doesn't mean a different moral standard app applies, by and large foreigners who come to america, going all the ways way back to toekville, i see things in america that you wouldn't see anywhere else in the world. right now if you took the power that america has as the world's sole superpower and you gave it to russia, or you gave it to china, they would use it far more expansively, more brutally and more to gain themselves. america is benign in the way it exercises it's power. the american idea of wealth creation is being embraced in india, in china, all over the world. so ironically this american formula that we are moving away from at home under obama is being enthusiastically embraced all over the world. >> benign in iraq. you say we use our power

benevolently. >> we went into afghanistan because the taliban supplied monkey bars from the guys on 9/11 who attacked us directly. >> why don't we go and get those who attacked us directly. which incidentally, the sbrooir history of the last 50 years of american foreign policy is that we go in under the guise of being ben nef sent and benign and we get booted out we blame the brown guys. >> do you think we're blaming al maliki for the problem in iraq because he's brown? >> i think we always blame our clients, that's what i'm saying. >> do you think we're blaming al maliki for the mess in iraq because he's brown? >> our clients happen to be brown. i hope maliki has been read

about vietnam. we hadn't failed, we were perfect. >> america has made mistakes, in retrospect the iraq war was a mistake. there's a difference between making a mistake and doing something that is inhempbrently wicked. anybody else that went into iraq would have reimbursed themselves by taking all the oil. we have spent all this money, we have turned over the keys to the oil field and said it's yours. >> you're absolutely mistaken. you're saying the oil is just there and iraq is using it the way they see fit and shell has nothing to do with it, and mobile has nothing to do with it. >> on the balance america lost money on iraq. >> on balance, people like halliburton made gas sillons of

money. >> america on balance lost and that's -- >> let me ask you this, at the end of the cold war, all of eastern europe is free, russia no longer has a communist government. are all those countries better off or worse off because we won the scocold war? >> i don't think we won the cold war. i these you're dreaming about that. i think that this notion that somehow we go out and spend a trillion dollars a year on military budgets, have 150 military cases circling the globe, those are not for benevolent purposes. >> so bill ayers came to us to talk about america, but he knew -- his group's plan to protest the vietnam war, racism and what they called american imperi imperialism. if you missed that part of our interview which we aired earlier this week, here are the most

critical parts which we will debate in a minute. >> how many bombings are you responsibility for. personally? >> me personally, i have never talked about it and never will. >> you in your group were calling for more violence. what we saw in february of 1977, san francisco police officer brian mcdonald, a 44-year-old father of two and husband was killed when a bomb went off at his police station and eight other police officers were injured in that blast. your wife has been accused of that crime do you deny it? >> i absolutely deny it. >> bernardine dorin was not fond of the police and specifically referred to them as pigs. following the bombing that took the life of officer mick donald.

john murtaugh was killed too. you quote the weather underground communique, and you say as follows, two weeks before the townhouse explosion, which is a different bomb, four members of this group had fire bombed another house. >> i didn't write that. >> it's in your book. >> which book? >> it's your book with bernardine. it's from one of your communi e communiques. you guys go to the point where you considered murder and you acknowledged that yourself. it got to the point that property damage wasn't good enough for you and decided on has murder. what began for your group as outrage over mass killings then turned into a plan to kill hundreds of americans. did you not see the moral high ground? >> oh, absolutely. that was true for a few people and it's one of the things that we split on. >> the only reason it didn't

happen was the boom blew up on the people that were making it. do you understand the recklessness of that? >> i don't say it wasn't reckless and i don't say it wasn't illegal, it was illegal. we crossed lines of illegality. >> while under ground you stole, you lied, you hid, right? any disagreement? >> yes. >> you stole? >> onward, yes. >> this is when you resurfaced from being under ground. october 20, 1981 was a triple homicide, david gilbert, weather underground partnered with the black liberation army, they kill twod cops along with a security guard. you were very close with gilbert and bodine? >> still ham. >> and your wife was asked to cooperate in that investigation. >> absolutely. >> she spent seven months in

jail because she refused to help in the investigation. nine children lost their fathers that stay. >> i agree. >> why didn't you're wife help? >> i agree with you, i think it was a terrible, terrible crime. >> the question is when your wife seemed perfectly fine about murder. she said the charles manson murders, quote, offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room. the weather men dig charles manson. >> this is something that gets recirculated. >> are you denying it? >> absolutely. >> you say in your book, you can't imagine putting a bomb in a building today, but you can't imagine dismissing that possibility either. what would it take to make you bomb this country again. >> you're taking that sentence in a funny way. but what i'm saying s it seems so long ago, what i'm saying in that passage is that it seems so

longing a and so far away, like another world. on the other hand as violent and as nuts as he can get as a country, i would not say that i wouldn't rise up. >> given that the weather underground targeted the person, the capitol, the state department, the police and so on, how did its founder come to help launch the career of barack obama? and what exactly does that tell us? we will examine that next. and later, how did people accused of bombings, robbery and even murder come to hold prestigious jobs at some of america's top universities and for that matter, how did some of them get out of jail? ♪

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president obama, let me ask you this, how much ideology did the two of you share. friends? not good friends? >> i knew him like 10,000 other people and today i wish he would

listen to me. >> i didn't contact him. >> the entire time he's been president he hasn't contacted you? and you vmgtd contacted him? >> i wish he would because i have a lot of advice for him. it was ayers and his wife better thrnardine dorin who -- young barack obama was first introduced as a candidate for the illinois state senate. ayers said his relationship with the president was casual. what does it tell us that our new president was friendly with a man who bombed this country repeatedly? mark tayson is -- kirsten powers is a fox news analysts and served in the clinton administration. i say that not to be provocative, but to genuinely search for an answer for what it

does tell us. one thing that did come out of my interview with professor ayers was a full investigation of what he really did and it puts in perspective why people were raising questions about barack obama's relationship with him when he was running for president. mark? >> absolutely it does and look, your interviews have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that bill ayers is abobnoxious human being and so is his wife, she supported the manson killings. these are not nice people. it's not to infer that barack obama shares all of his views, but barack obama comes from the same far left community in chicago that celebrates and welcomes bill ayers rather thanations him as someone who is detestable. there is no evidence than in 2008 that barack obama had any trouble being associated with bill ayers.

hillary clinton pointed out they served on the same board of the same left wing charity. >> serving on a board is one thing, but socializing, and if you read ayers prior writings, they did socialize. a lot of people look at bill ayers and say i would not be caught dead in that man's living room. i would not associate with him, i would not want anything to do with him given what he has done. >> well, i guess unless you consider what he says. which is that he over and over deny what you were saying, right? >> but he admitted to bombing the capitol, bombing the pentagon, bombing police stations, calling for the overthrow of the u.s. government, calling policemen pigs, he married a woman who directly was accused of murder and repeatedly called for war against the united states. that's all admitted to. >> but the question is, does barack obama know all that? and i think that that's not clear to me.

you know, i think that he may have, first of all, let's just go back to the fact that he had a very vague relationship with this person. i really think it's overstated when it's said that he launched his career, holding a fund-raiser does not launch anybody's career, it's just a fund-raiser. >> just a friendship, or take that back, the friendliness, let's take it from there. if you're barack obama, if you're kirsten powers, do you want anything to do with bill ayers and bernardine dorin who was on the fbi's most wanted list? >> would i speak to them? yes, i would speak to them. >> would you hold an event in their living room? >> i'm not like mark where i feel i can sit around condemning people as detestable people. they did some bad things, but -- >> barack obama said that. >> obnoxious and detestable. >> that's barack obama's line.

>> i thought it was a very interesting interview that you had, megan and i these they're clearly views that are not the views that barack obama has. to compare him to barack obama and say this is the world of barack obama, came out of, some left winger, barack obama is assassinating people, he is not anything like bill ayers. >> barack obama is the one that said that bill ayers is detestable. the problem is he only said it when it became an issue in his campaign. people are not friendly with people they consider to be detestable. >> in the 1960s bill buckley excavated -- if you wanted to taken seriously as a conservative, you didn't associate with that.

bill ayers is considered not somebody to be shunned. >> you don't know anybody people on the left if you think that that that is true. >> our next seg mnlment is abouw the left went on to welcome bill ayers, bernardine dorin into the academic circles of this country. i'm talking bernardine dorin, who wanted to overthroe the government, and who was on the fbi's ten most wanted is now teaching at northwestern law school. she's still the one for you. and cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach,

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well the fbi file on the weather underground is deep and extensive. not only did ayers anm the feds, but she wound up on the ten most wanted list. so with bombings, armed robberies and even the murders of some underground members, how did these folks end up holdsing prestigious jobs at top universities? >> ultimately you got a job teaching with the university of illinois. do you see any irony in accepting a government paycheck? >> i don't see the irony? >> spend a life wanting to throw

down the government as you put it. your wife got a job teaching at northwestern university law. >> very successfully. >> are you surprised that you got those job offers, you and she? she was on the fbi's ten most wanted list. >> so was angela davis and a lot of great people have been on that list. >> sure they have. this is joe connor, who you're seeing here, we have to laugh. joe's father, seriously was murdered in a terrorist attack by the faln. that's a group that wanted to bring about puerto ricoian independence. andrew mccarthy, he's a former prosecutor that worked to keep one of the underground members behind bars. there's a lot of great people on the fbi's ten most wanted list. that's a fantastic list. >> it's people you want to hang

out with. >> rem stalet me start with you because bill ayers, you listen to him, he's intellectual, he's a compelling figure, he makes point, you may disagree with him, you may agree with him. then you saw the full interview that i did with him and then i think you saw a different man. >> the thing with ayers is he does what every other lying criminal does, he know what is can be proved in court and he knits his story around it. it turns out that ayers had smart bombs before the pentagon did, bombs that rattle the glass but don't hit any people, if you look at his own words, which you went through with him. >> i have never seen anybody do that, show the evidence in his face, and say you did do it, you admitted to it. but he's forgotten the stories. >> he's gotening away with it

for 40 years. >> not only has he gotten away with it and the others, but they have been embraced by the academic community. ayers university of chicago, bernardine dorin is at northwestern law school. my head is going to explode. this other one at new york city high schools. >> i have a son that's going to be graduating high school next year and we're looking at colleges. i would want to know as a parent who's teaching my children. if i'm going to pay $65,000, i want to know that there are terrorists teaching our kids. >> they had a community center -- they had a community center honoring them, a place where my father went to college.

this is what we're dealing with with the left in this country, when they realized they couldn't beat us by bombing, by attacking, they turned to academia, they turned to media, they turned to law. now we have seen the result of that, it's been generational, it's been slow growth. >> if you look at where they wound up at these press -- >> mississipon the campus, they iconic figures because the former experience of the people what know run the institutions of opinion very much included in the campus, are the vietnam war, the anti-war protests, the water gate scandal, the domestic spying scandals and the like,

they came to attach nobility to a war against the university. and if you go back and read their own words, it was very much a war against the united states in which they wanted to mass murder americans, not just rattle a bunch of glass. >> people used to talk about ayers and president obama, like you need to pay attention, and pay attention to this, why is it relevant if they were only friendly, if he did an event in the living room, why? >> would you associate as a person with a known terrorist? we're talking about our president. we're not talking about a local mayor, we're not talking about a friend, we're talking about the president of the united states associating him with a known terrorist. not only him, there's others in chicago, there's jose lopez, oscar lopez's brother. we see that our president has been dealing with terrorists. how can we have fallen so low? it just boggles the mind. >> he didn't just know them, he endorsed his book.

ayers wrote a book called "a kind and just parent" he said it was a searing and just account. >> talk about eric holder. he has an interesting role in this. tell us. >> holder was the attorney general during the clinton administration who engineered the pardonena we're talking about. >> pardoning a group that murdered your father. the clinton administration reached out to them through eric holder who was helping them. and said how would you like to get out of zwral? >> and oscar lopez denied it all together. you had an attorney general, a future attorney general and a president pushing to release a terrorist who didn't want it. >> what did they do respect to the weather underground. >> the last day of clinton's office, he walked into the offices of weather underground.

>> what happened to susan rosenberg? what's she doing now? >> teaching at john j. college, she then went to hamilton for a while. >> teaching another another college? my mind is going to explode. could you ask them what they have a criminal history, could you make sure that your professor didn't do that before you start listening to him? >> when you come out of prison after a terrorism conviction, you might as well have been getting an academic degree because that's the way you get treated. >> what did you think of the ayers exchange? what did you think of the whole thing? >> i thought he was a liar, a punk, he was just like every other terrorist, he blamed the vietnam war for things. justifying his own homicide, sociopathology, the vietnam war, there was an officer killed and

he was a member of that conspiracy that killed the officer. when you talk about being anti-war, he wasn't anti-war, he was anti-american winning the vietnam war. that's what he was about. >> not proud to be an american to this day. guys good to see you. when we talked to ayer this is week, we heard one thing over and over, blame it on vietnam. this is all about what was this is all about what was happening in vietnam he

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. the idea that somehow this is the moral equivalent of 6,000 people a week being killed strikes me as nuts. we were destroying property and in the course of discussion, some people thought we should go much further, but we didn't. >> critics say when you make that argument, you sound like adolf hitler. >> author of the novel "hell or richmond" which hi received the american library association's award for excellent. the weather underground members

did what they did because we were killing 6,000 people a week in the vietnam war, true? >> it simply wasn't true, that's a figure the hard left just pulled out of thin air. in fact, vietnam was a long and brutal war, and some americans, a small number were involved in atrocities. the north vietnamese and viet cong, our enemies committed vath amounts of atrocities. when they committed atrocities, they went to jail. the notion that we went in there and slaughters innocent citizens left and right, that's a bad version of history. conservatives made a huge mistake in the last 50 years by abandoning the educational system, k through 12 through university and graduate school took a hard left. the product is a generation of

young people who know the bill ayers side but not the facts. and by the way, it's about time people stopped insulting vietnam veterans, they were not monsters and butchers and baby killers, they were young men serving their country when the likes of bill ayers wouldn't. >> he has a very different view. he thinks john mccain was a war criminal. and he thinks bowe bergdahl is a hero because he had the courage to stand up for what they believed in. >> since 1775, lexington and congress cord, good men and brave men have given their lives so that bill ayer has right to be a horse's ass. but it's an undeniable interest in barack obama. not just his belief that america is the problem not the solution,

but specifically in the bergdahl case, where our president, treated bergdahl and his family better than he treated any american hero dead or alive and their families. so this idea that, yes, deserters are somehow heroes, that america ask really somehow at fault for islamist terrorists, palestinians are freedom fighters that the israelis are oppressors, this is all pure bill ayers, it's just like sitting in the reverend wright's church, you don't do it year after year after year without picking it up. bill ayers and bernadette were not holding fund-raisers four obama because they were great americans. >> i have read a lot of his discussions about barack obama, he wasn't prepared to discuss that and the full the record han set straight on who it was. in whose living room barack obama was back in those days. we have a better feeling for

that man. i have to go. thanks for being here, sir. >> thank you, megan. >> up next, a major storm threat for the fourth of july. don't go away. fighting constipation by eating healthier, drinking plenty of water, but still not getting relief? try dulcolax laxative tablets. dulcolax is comfort-coated for gentle, over-night relief. dulcolax. predictable over-night relief you can count on. . . .

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extreme weather alert. the first named storm of the year could become a hurricane. tropical storm arthur threatening the holiday weekend for millions of people in the storm's path. here's the latest live from the fox weather center tonight. janice? >> the concern is the path is shifting to the west. what does that mean? it means more people affected from south carolina all the way up to maine. so 70 miles per hour storm, 74 miles per hours makes it a hurricane. we anticipate a hurricane in the overnight hours. you can see that eye, well defined.

strengthening storm. here is the 5:00 p.m. advisory. we get a new one showing the storm making a direct hit on the outer banks. the computer models are now moving westward. concerning becauses it is going to cause a lot more problems for a lot more people. so this is the european model. this is friday, 6:00 a.m. again, over cape hats ras, the outer banks. watch it hug the coastline. yes. concerning. affecting millions of people here for friday into saturday. and then moving up towards eastern canada, but the rainfall amounts now with this computer model are impressive all across the coast, even up to new york, long island, boston, cape cod. this is something we need to monitor carefully, megan. it's going to affect more people if this track moves more to the west and perhaps even a stronger storm. category two.

data goir three. >> janice, keep us posted. >> i will. >> i will. >> you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then... wham! a minivan t-bones you. guess what: your insurance company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it. "depreciation" they claim. "how can my car depreciate before it's first oil change?" you ask. maybe the better question is, why do you have that insurance company? with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance.

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finally tonight, as we celebrate the fourth of july holiday take a moment to remember our men and women in uniform who protect our liberty. our most severely injured vets at they integrate at home are helped by the tunnel 2 towers organization. a man strapped 60 pounds of gear

on his back and rushed to downtown manhattan where he was killed. many others who fought the terrorists who did it need your help. consider going to tunnel2towers.org this holiday. thanks for watching. >> this is a fox news alert tonight. as scandal plagues the obama administration there are historically bad poll numbers hitting team obama. i'm in for sean tonight. the poll numbers are really bad. how bad? a new survey is revealing that americans believe barack obama is the worst president since world war ii. fox's ed henry is standing by for more. ed? >> good to see you, eric. what's devastating for the white house this is a nonpartisan highly respected poll. if you look at this in terms of voters' feelings about presidents dating back to world war