malaysian airlines now is anyone's guess but they were in horrible financial trouble. now to find out who was on that plane, what happened to it, how it came from the sky and who is responsible. who is responsible. it is 1 o'clock and 10 o'clock a.m. on the west coast and in ukraine a malaysian airline from amsterdam to kuala lumpur was lost from radar and suddenly in a field in the east of ukraine not far from the russian border. those who support russia taking over. the rebel fighting many weeks and months, attempted to shoot down a ukranian jet. military jet as it had in recent days. today early reporting indicates

though we cannot confirm. early reporting indicates that it appears the separatist in the east of ukraine shot down a passenger jet with 295 people on board. 280 passengers and 15 crew members. these are the first pictures that came in through sky news and through russian state television we are getting the ground pictures. you need to know the pictures are very, very graphic. we have been led to believe by the reporters, there are bodies scattered for miles around the area and now the the victims are showing up on video and this is being broadcast around the world. the question now is, what happens next? we know that we have military assets in the region. we know that we have extremely intensive surveillance that has been happening in this region for weeks and months now.

we know that satellites are trained here and human intelligence on the ground. when i see we, i am speaking of the united states. there are people in place was importance right now who most likely know what happened and when and where it was shot down and where it landed and exactly whatever shot it down came from. so that information is known to those who monitor this region for so closely so long. the question is: when will we get the information. wendall live in the white house. do we expect to hear from the white house and what was said between vladimar putin and president obama and what happens next? >> reporter: i expect that will be cleared up in a state department briefing. the president is in delaware for a speech on infrastructure, and the magnitude of the tragedy will compel him probably to

comment on. it we know the president was briefed by the national security team and he informed them to keep him updated and stay in contact with ukranian officials about. this the president did speak to vladimar putin about the time the plane was going down. we are not sure, russian news agencies say that putin himself informed the president that the plane was down in ukranian territory. this comes a day after the u.s. intensified sanctions and targeting the russian energy and defense sectors and weapon's manufacturers saying that they had, the russian escalated the support for prerussian separatist instead of ramping it down as the president and western nations had demanded. once again, the president spoke

to putin today, but we are not sure whether putin claimed that he informed the president that the plane was down is correct. shepherd. >> thank you, wendall. a spokesman from the prorussian separatist in donetsk said they are not capable of bringing down a plane in cruising altitudes and can only hit planes at 13,000 feet. and anal sift said the defense expert told the bbc that shooting down a plane at 10,000 meters or 33,000 would require a long range missile guided by radar and unlikely downed by a portable missile that has a shorter range. the only possibility is a aircraft taken down by

a fighter air-to-air missile. the united states has satellite imagery to identify the long range plumes. in short we have discrepancies of what may have been possible here. i can tell you what we know. malaysian flight en route from amsterdam to kuala lumpur has crashed in the region where the separatist are battling to take over in the ukraine country. who do we have now. jennifer griffin in the pent govenlt a lot of conflicting stuff out there now. >> reporter: that's right. sheppa sheppard. the house intel committee doesn't believe that the ukranian government has the medium range buk missile even though there are images taken by the associated press showing the

types of medium range missiles in the hands of the ukranian military. how intel- members speaking on capitol hill don't believe that the ukranian government has that kind of missile. what we do know, the russian separatist in ukraine had been bragging to reporters on the ground in recent days and showing them this buk missile system and known by nato as a fa 17 or 11 system and capable of flying up to 72,000 feet. it is known as a medium range miss and i will designed to intercept cruise missiles and designed to intercept planes. it is a sophisticated piece of weaponry, the way it works it has a radar locking system and a homing system if not used properly can lock on to a bigger

target. if somebody is using the weapon system and not familiar with it, they may think they are targeting a military plane if you will, and it could if there is a larger are plane flying in the vicinity. it would switch over to the larger target. and that's what happens with the homing system. and we know that the fa a issued an alert that u.s. planes should avoid this region and barred them from flying over crimea and ukraine air space. the fa a barred u.s. planes from flying over the u.s. air space. it is not clear why the malaysian flight took this flight. perhaps they did not believe missiles could reach that hih. but we know from news reports and reports from ukranian officials on monday, a cargo jet was brought down by a missile

and it was plane it was a russian missile fired from inside russian that brought down the plane. and social media reports from the russian separatist claiming they were targeting a cargo jet today, just about the same time the mh17 malaysian flight went down. shepherd. >> jennifer thank you for all of. that i want you to be more specific about this. separatist in the east of ukraine said we can't bring it down because we don't have that equipment. we know that is not true. associated press had a reporter on the border and took a picture of one of these systems and confirmed as it is of two days ago in the hands of a group who claimed they can't do this. sa- 17 sa 11 anti- aircraft missile. it is, it has, it is a tracked

surface to air missile system. sams. they call it the buk one m. each launcher ares has four missiles and track and strike six targets, flying from different directions and different altitudes all at the same time. it has its own on board engagement radar and came in operation in 1983. they have this system in their possession and this system can takedown a jet. speaking hypothetically if they were aiming at a smaller jet at a lower altitude, a military jet, this missile when jennifer described when fired at that jet, if it noticed a larger jet it can reroute and track that one instead and bring it down. today something brought down a boeing triple seven in ukraine

eastern region and 295 people are dead. one more piece of information and we'll go to jon scott and jenna lee. we have new information from the white house. and we have confifrmation from the white house president putin told president obama about the shooting of the jet going down. and president and russian president was on the phone discussing new sanctions and the united states levied against the russians and in the end of the phone call quote the press secretary of the white house, in the end of the phone call, president putin said there is a jet down near the russian border are in ukraine. most likely it had just happen and there was not a lot of information known. guys good to see you. >> shepherd, what a story, we

still don't know what transpired and how it came to this point. we know that malaysian flight 17 traveling from netherlands to kuala lumpur is on the ground and on fire in the eastern ukraine. >> 295 people on board and a lot of questions remain. and a general analyst. general scales, what is reasonable for us at this point as far as what the u.s. government knows, based on our intelligence presence of that region of the world and what that confirms from us? we cannot confirm this plane was indeed shot down and we don't know who would be behind bringing the plane down. what is reasonable that we would know? >> let me give you insight, jenn a that said a shoulder fire

weapon's system can only go 5 or 6,000 feet. that is right. this was not a man paid or that type of missile. it was a sa 17 which is a product version of the sa six, that gave us so many scares in the gulf war and probably the most feared missile against the israeli air force in their wars in the '80s and '90s. this is a russian attempt to improve on their divisional rocket systems and it is mobile and makes it so difficult to find and kill. and it has a sophisticated dual radar. the radar on the face of the turn and has a semiautonom musradar are in the war heads. if anyone said they can't reach 33,000 feet ask the israeli air force. it is the most feared missile in the russian arsenal.

and a trained crew that saw the rocket going after an unintended target. they have a self destruct and they can push a button and kill the target. but these missiles are armed by armed thugs and russia giving sophisticated equipment to the separatist and they have little or no skill and it seems to me what happened, you have a pick- up crew trying to operate a sophisticated missile and shot down two ukranian aircraft and thought they were on a roll and spotted something on the radar and pushed the launch button and didn't know how to stop it once they realized it was wrong. all of this shoulder fire missile is wrong. >> we know that the president said yesterday when he addressed the briefing room that we have made clear that russia must halt the flow of fighters across the

border. he certainly recognized the missiles that we are talking about are flowing in the hands of people who didn't know how to use. it still, general scales, in the u.s. government, we haven't heard from the state department or official statement from the white house about this. is it accurate to think that our government knows who shot it and where it came from? >> they will eventually. they have the two black boxes from the aircraft and there will be plenty of data available from satellite images or ukranians themselves. the separatest will deny they did it. but who is at fault here? the guy at fault is vladimar putin. he's trying to fight a war in the shadows to do it on the cheap and i think many of us in the military analyst business knew eventually something like this would happen. you don't give sophisticated toys to thugs to turn out well.

and in the end of the day putin is the guy responsible for what happened. >> let's talk about the separatist. we throw the term around on the news. they are proxy warriors that vladimar putin is using to accomplish his aim. he wants the ukraine and the government weakened and he wants that country divided. and he would like to gobble up the whole thing if he could. >> it is an odd assortment of humanity. ukranian citizens who are sympathetic to the russian and russian special forces both act sxift inactive and consist of gru forces military intelligence forces and various russian advisors who walk around in civilian clotheses. it is a pick up team. and as long as they have rifles and artillery. but you put something

sophisticated in their hands like an sa 7 or 11 that pushes the limits and unbelievably irresponsible on the part of the russians. >> there are a number of shoot downs of aircrafts in the last couple of days. one report and to my knowledge not confirmed yet. one report is that a russian fighter aircraft shot down a ukranian fighter aircraft. both sides, the ukranian government has the buk missiles and the separatist have the buk missiles and how will we prove or how does the world know which side will know. >> it will be done by forensics. all of the missiles have serial numbers and the ukranians can account for their missiles and they will do that and there will be a missile missing and only place it will come from is the separatist. the russian tv will spin it and

it will be blamed on the ukranians and remember in 1993 with the russian downing of the korean air flight. it took them 14 years to admit they did. it the russians are not good at air defense but certainly good about lying about it. >> there seem to be plenty of lies in that world. on monday a cargo plane was shot down and wednesday a fighter jet crashed. and it was shot down by the russians and earlier today ukranian separatist bragged about shooting down a ukranian cargo aircraft and then you have malaysian flight on the ground and 295 people apparently dead. >> yes. >> major general bob scales, stay with us and we would like to rely on your expertise and we'll go back to shepherd smith. >> thanks, jon. we are monitoring what is

happening over the skies in ukraine. it is really unfathomable that the captain of the jet or malaysian airlines would be flying over the region. american airlines have been banned for weeks because they are trying to shoot the jets out of the sky there. american airlines said no, you can't do. that the thinking was how can malaysian airline, it is not alone. luft panza one of the largest air carriers in the world. and john buzzy from the wall street journal. as reliable as anything on the planet. and minutes ago, they made the directive, we will not fly over that region as did air france and it would appear that the rest of the world has done the same. i want to show you live air traffic all over the world. so this is ukraine, this is the

east of ukraine here, this is russian territory, and there is no traffic over this region anymore. all of the jets that are trying to take off in russia are on the ground and there is no more traffic there as there shouldn't have been obviously today at all or for weeks on end. when we were there covering this in crimea and all of this was beginning to heat up and the battles in the street and fires in kiev, the fear was that some accident would happen, that someone taking action against another would include, what if a school bus. what happened here is much bigger are. it hasn't drawn in other people from ukraine and russia, it just drew in the entire world. >> that's right. the news cycle will look at each of those passengers on the plane. amsterdam to kuala lumpur and flying over ukraine and not

involved with ukraine and filled with international passengers and business people and families, and it will draw the world in to this conflict in the way it was not drawn in before. more than just western europe. the rest of the world is saying what is happening here? mind you, they were not shooting and if they were waiting to find out whether it was a missile that took down the plane. they were not shooting at commercial jets. they were shooting at a ukranian cargo plane or something else. the ukranians told paul sun, they clearly thought it was a military transport plane they were shooting at. they were the ones that did this. he's referring to separatist operating in the ukranian territory, pro russian separatist. that is the official ukranian side of this. what you see is what you say,

the world focus is on this in the stand point of international innocent victims drawn in a crisis that now the world is putting more pressure on to resolve. >> i want to look at sky news in europe, these are new pictures from sky news that we are si multicasting on fox news channel. we are discussing and there is a lot of discussion and i heard general scales that the russians have a history of lying about the circumstances surrounding this. that is easy to do when no one is watching. in this case, the united states government and many governments of the world were watching. we have intelligence, intelligence capabilities that we would not normally have in this region. we have monitored the border and fighting for weeks and weeks, our satellites are trained on this area and we have human

intelligence on the ground. i don't have any way to confirm if people on the ground are monitoring it, but if we don't we are crazy. but i am confident we do. eyes and ears are on this thing. i say as a result of the intelligence, the united states is going to know if something down out of the air, they will know what it was and where it came from and where it was made and possession of. it this is not a plane that burned in the sky or plane that burned before it came to the ground. this is a plane that broke up in the air. there are large pieces of the plane that are broken apart and not burned. it was a burning hunk when it came to the ground and certainly fuel on board would have exploded, but a large piece with six windows on it are not burned

in any way. that suggest an inair impact and not a fire in the air. >> if it was a buk missile and produced by russia and given to separatist and shot the plane out of the sky, what does putin do now? will he pull back or do what the ukranians did, when their air force shot a commercial airline out during a military exercise, when the united states shot an iranian air bus 330 taking off from iran. they thought it was a fighter jet and thought it was attacking the missile cruiser and so what happen then, the u.s. apologized, it was a dicey area.

and maybe that the road that putin goes. same road when passengers on a commercial airliner and civilians get caught up in a war zone. >> we are expecting and waiting for a live news conference scheduled in the state department. that is a live look at the state department. 24 minutes past 1 o'clock in the afternoon. it would appear that the wait continues. history tells me, we can expect disinformation from one side or the another. whatever information has gone through the channels and will be made available to the public quickly. because very soon we'll get in the process where we find out who the victims are and the 295 people on board are and where they are from and those governments are going to demand

to know what happened and justice. and from that process, we'll get to who did whatever was done and a process of justice will begin. and john, we'll hear from the state department and carry that for you live, but that is going to be a messy and difficult process that could inflame things in ways we couldn't imagine. >> there could be a demand for information from amsterdam to kuala lumpur and a lot of asians on board. and the dutch colony of indonezia that are living in the netherland. and chinese on board and a lot of nations that are concerned about getting to the bottom of this. and what you said earlier is also correct, shep. unlike the malaysian flight 370 that disappeared in the indian ocean and we had errant pings to go by as our key data points,

you will have a wealth of information. and radar screenings and trajectory of the plane and something enter into the zone of the plane and that will be evident to the west military forces and governments. >> i venture to say it is. we have been given a warning of the state department briefing starting in two minutes and while we wait for that in the next 90 seconds. i will give you what we now. malaysian flight 17 twe parted 12:15 amsterp arester dam time. losing contact at four time time 17. five hours and 12 minutes in to what would have been a 11 hour flight. i give you this information. it had more than half of a full fuel tank still on board. it was scheduled to land in kuala lumpur at 6:ten local time

and flying at 33,000 feet when it lost contact 31 miles from the russian/ukraine border are near donetsk. that is where the separatist are battling for control for russia. they lost radar before it was due to leave ukranian air space. 295 people. and a debris field spans nine miles. large debris field tell us one thing something happen in the air. gen stocky live. >> you can see auditing ballots from the afghan presidential run off and the audit is conducted in kabul. >> this is just highly inappropriate i would say. they are going through day-to-day, each day the state department has a briefing and

each day there are state department reporters that are assigned to be there and you get a long list of things going on and then you get to ask questions. today a malaysian airline jet has fallen from the sky over the war zone and the state department is beginning with routine matters, you figure it out. i can't figure that out. whether they will get to this. jennifer griffin, i can't believe what just happen? >> reporter: that's the state department, shep. i am not surprised. but at this point in time, what we are hearing from pentagon and other u.s. official sources they are not confirming how the plane went down even though we know in the pentagon and elsewhere in the government there are satellites trained on this area and there are radar signatures to read quickly in terms of what might occurred there and no u.s. official is commenting on what

brought down the plane. it is important to point out the top ukranian separatist leader in donetsk, andre pergin was quoted saying his group did not bring down the plane, he said it was the ukranian government that did so and would not confirm his group had possession of the buk missiles capable of firing up to sfo thousand feet, and yet a p reporters had seen what they described as a buk missile system brought across the border from russia buttandre pergin said they would not know how to fire it. and as we discussed, it has a homing device and will home on to a larger target, even if

pointed in a less significant target. the rebels themselves have been bragging on social media sites that they targeted 225 ukranian fighter planes and one of those was shot out of the sky, the pilot was able to eject. >> jennifer. gen has gotten to the plane. >> families and loved ones and we are monitoring the situation. the secretary is aware of the reports and we are seeking additional information. our embassy in kiev is in close contact with the ukranian authorities and at this point this is all of the details we have. >> you have seen the reports, coming from the manifest that there were 23 u.s. citizens on board. even if you don't know if that is actually correct, can you say

whether you have that information from the manifest that apparently there were 23 u.s. passengers. >> we have seen the public report and i spoke to the team and we don't have additional details on american citizens. we are looking to obtain that and soon as we have it available we'll make it available to you. >> as the secretary, the president spoke to putin about not this but the plane came up. has the secretary made calls to anyone in russia or ukraine that you are aware of? >> not at this point, it just happen a couple of hours ago, and we can keep you updated. >> does he plan to? >> i don't have planned calls to predict for you. but if any calls happen, we'll make sure it is available to all of you. >> the foreign ministry said

they have reason to believe based on their assessment, that it was a russian- made buk missile that is in the hands of the russian separatist. and you have chatter on twitter, about some of the separatist saying they did shoot down has your team on the ground spoke to the ukranians? have they told you that this is their assessment and you just want to get your own confirmation? >> as we mentioned, we are in touch with the ukranian authorities. >> did they share that assessment for you? >> i don't have further readouts. we are discussing comments and reports that are out there. we don't have our own confirmation of details. events are fluid on the ground and we don't have anymore information to share. >> because given it is fluid and very early, i mean, there is already a kind of you know, some

common wisdom said that the separatist have done it. is this your belief? and you have confirmation of that and suspicions of that? >> i will not speculate for obvious reasons. we don't have additional information other than the reports of the plane crash. i have nothing here. >> the ukranian transport planes shot down in the last week and maybe in the same area, is that something that you are looking at in terms of a similar mistaken. >> i am not begin to speculate further for obvious reasons. >> what actually happen and whatever or who ever was responsible for it; is it correct that the missile that alyss mentioned was among the sorry. >> you are saying that the wrong way. >> this missile was among the

weaponry that you have said in the course of the past couple of months or so that had been transiting from russia and military sites in southeast, and in, in west russia, sorry, to the separatist in ukraine? >> i am happy to check that, matthew. we don't have confifrmation that that is the cause or the source of the plane being down. >> i understand that. but are these missiles that ukranians say, that are responsible and you were complaining that the russians had been sending in to ukraine? >> i am happy to check with your team separately from this particular incident. >> yesterday, when you imposed new sanctions on the russians, isn't it true that one of your concerns that the russians are doubling down on their increasing supply of weapon tots

spraftest. >> we have stated that publicly and still have a concern about. that i think there is a difference between making unconfirmed. >> i understand. but without talking about the specific buk missile. is it a concern that the russians are supplying with truck mounted and shoulder fire missiles. >> we have xresdz that concern and i would point you to past comments made about them. >> the administration made it clear, that the escalating the conflict and added to the tensions there. who ever is to blame for this downing of the airliner, is there some responsibility going to be made by moscow by this? >> i think broadly speaking, matt, we announced yesterday a new round of sanctions and several defense company and

energy companies speaks to our level of concern about the escaulatory actions from russia. however, we don't have enough information with the specific incident and that's why i will not be able to provide you confirmation of details and i don't want to speculate on who is to blame. >> but the conflict that escalated there and led to this tragedy. >> again, we don't know that at this point in time. we don't know the causes and who is responsible for the plane going down. >> what is any assistance would the administration provide for an investigation of this incident? >> it is too early to say. we have traditionally and historically provided a range of assistance. you are familiar with the assistance when the malaysian plane disappeared and we'll keep you up-to-date if there was a request made or granted from

our end. >> given the fact that the the plane fell down in separatist territory, clearly the separatist are not equipped and capable to launch. and i see they have said they will try to help in the investigation, but given the fact that they don't have capability to launch investigation, i think they might have control over the black boxes. i mean, how do you see the ukranians and how do you help navigate insuring that there is an investigation? >> we are in close touch with the ukranian authorities and if there are request made we'll keep you a breast if we are providing assistance. >> any americans on board? >> i can't at this point in time. again, this happen so recently, lucas. we'll be happy to give you that information if we have details.

obviously we are speaking that information as we speak. go ahead. do we have more. go ahead matt? >> apart from the incident. >> gen mentioning the americans on board. the manifest for the particular flight. malaysian flight 17, for those of you who joined us. what you are seeing is video of the jet that crashed in east of ukraine with 295 people on board, 280 passengers and 15 crew, and according to the flight manifest, the list of passengers believed to be on there, 23 of them list citizenship bypassport as the united states. history tells us that those manifest are almost calls exactly right. but they are not always right.

i will get to two new pieces much n. inform. the ukranian president spoke while jen was speaking in the state department. he called it a terrorist act. the ukranian government called the spraftist in the east ukraine a terrorist, and a word they used for these people since the beginning of the conflict. these are pictures sent to us from the crash scene. we are told the debris field is nine miles long and bodies are scattered for miles. they are still pictures and we have done what we can to not make it as graphic as maybe it could be. but there is a reality here and it is contained in these pictures and that reality is not pretty. and we believe in the early going of the state department that 23 of the people who lost their lives in the last three hours are american.

and separatist rebel from a nearby location told the rueteres. i saw a plane descend and heard two explosions. he denied the rebels shot it down and this could happen only if it was a surface to air missile that shot it down. and added that the rebels don't have weapons capable of shooting down the plane at that height. the question is, do they have the buk missile system. and the associated press have pictures. but there are conflicting reports. the wall street journal hear similar things. >> there is a lot of voices but not a lot of information and a lot of "ifs" as to whether it was a missile and julianne barnes, reported that a defense

department official they are not sure the separatist had the sophisticated weaponry buk missile system to shoot down a target that far away. and whether or not they do is not firmly determined yet. >> what was determined early from twitter that the rebels were bragging they shot down a plane. they said on twitter, they thought they shot down a ukranian military jet which is what they said they are trying to do and various reports of whether they are successful about that once today and in previous days. if they did not do it as they were trying to. you would have to believe that ukraine shot a passenger jet out of the sky to what end? or an air-to-air missile from a ukranian military jet had to shoot down a malaysian jet.

those are the other things you would to to believe. either of the russian separatist those in support of russia taking over the eastern part of uian or the military. we can tell you what is report. pj crowley is a former assistant secretary of state of media and now pressor. there is a lot on the plate around the world. what is your sense of where this takes the escalation in the east of ukraine and what you suspect might happen there next? >> shepherd, first, it is different than the malaysian, the missing malaysian aircraft that we experienced earlier in the year, obviously there is a crash scene, and so there will be flight data recorders that should be recovered and you are in one of the densist parts of

the world so you will have a lot of imagery and radar, so we should be able to answer many of the questions going forward, such as what kind of system, from what lined of location and obviously who was operating in that location, from ground to air or air-to-air. we should be able to answer the questions in a relatively short period of time. it will be critically important that all countries with weaponry radar cooperate and bring that material together. >> pj, we have a lot of assets for reasons that should be obvious to everyone. intelligence assets and tracking that border region especially in the wake of the recent shoot downs, we were suggesting that that most likely we know exactly what happened there, because we were tracking it in real- time,

does that make accepts? >> i think it will have a lot of information that will be available in a relatively short period of time. of course, what kind of system might have been involved here and whose finger on the trigger, those are the things that may take time to work through. you know, i am not surprised that there is claims and counter claims. in this particular case, we should be able to get prelimary information in hours and firm answers within days. russian president vladimar putin expressed his sympathy to the prime minister of malaysian according to a statement published by the kremlin. russian head of state conveyed sincere words of sympathy and support to the family and friends of the victims the kremlin said. >> pj, there is a lot of ifs

here. if the missile system was from russia and if the missile system was used by the separatist in ukraine, and mistakenly and otherwise shot down a commercial jet that had 23 americans if that is the correct number. lots of ifs there. if that is the way the story goes, doesn't the conversation dangerously turn into russians killing americans? and if that is what happens, what does that do to putin's position in ukraine and do to the u.s./russian relations? >> i would think that first of all, if you go back to last year, with the claims regarding chemical weapons used in syria. i mean, even to this day, russia may not agree that the syrian military was responsible for those in that particular

incident. what we will see first, perhaps a round of propganda and try to leave it murky as to precisely who was responsible. again, within a period of time, you will have some answers. obviously, you know, there will be the nationalities of many different countries on board this aircraft including the united states. if we can determine who did it, then it will put an enormous amount of pressure on russia whether it was something that you know, those sympathetic to russia were responsible for. and how did they get equipment and who gave it to them? and what kind of technical support did they have in terms of russia paramilitary that we know are present in eastern ukraine. it will put enormous amount of pressure on russia in terms of

how they respond if things point in their direction. >> pj crowley. thank you. we are getting new pictures from sky news showing extensive debris on the grounds. the areas of burning product and areas that are not singed at all. that suggest to us that there was a fire on the ground, but the plane broke up before which suggest that there was an event in the air and something like a missile strike. jon scott and jenna lee with an interview now. >> yeah, the wide field of debris tells you that the plane broke up in the air and a triple seven that's virtually impossible but for an explosion inside or outside of the plane. lieutenant cow an is a analyst.

we know that, that one of the pro russian leaders in ukraine bragged this morning about shooting down a ukranian government cargo plane and then withdrew that claim and then we get word that a malaysian plane was shot down. putting 2 and 2 together, it seems clear what happened. am i jumping to conclusions? >> not at all, jon, we'll go in to the finger pointing phase where the separatist and russians said it was the ukranian government. and the ukranian government is saying it was separatist. and it is putin's worst nightmare. he has worked a campaign and off of the radar screen and now we

are in to it. >> just yesterday our president announced sanctions against russia because of weapons and equipment flowing in to ukraine to the russian separatist that the russia is supporting. the president is scheduled to speak in 20 minutes from now in an event about infrastructure spend nothing delaware. he is appearing in more fundraisers in new york city. but the president is supposed to speak. how do you think the president should address this? should our president have going to say? i will be surprised if the word investigation is not what he will talk about. you suggested in the last hour, that our intelligence sources and we have all kinds of intelligence assets focused on that area probably have a good picture of what is going on. i don't think we will disclose that. and i think the president is

going to run for an international investigation before he states anything, even if he knows with certainty who is guilty. we'll not he is guilty. i think the president is hands off, stand back, let's let the investigation run its course and then we'll decide what we're going to do. no question u.s. intelligence watched the russians feed a steady stream of weaponry and some more s into the separatists and that will continue to be used. i would say right now every one of those sophisticated missile systems is shovelled off to a barn somewhere where it can't be found by international inspectors. >> without confirmation, we're all in the same boat if you will of trying to figure out exactly what happened and who did it and why they did it, was it a mistake or intentional? regardless of all that, how do you see it? is this a game changer in this region and for this conflict? >> i don't know.

you know, it's a game changer in the news follows it but the news moves around. there will be conspiracy theo theorists saying our white house did that to get the news off the situation at the border. it's hard to tell where it's going to go and whether it will be a game changer. i don't think anything at all will change putin's desire to get into ukraine as far as he can. this may slow him down just a little bit. as bob mentioned before, the russians have a lot of sophisticated forces inside ukraine working with the separatist. they're not going to pull them out. those guys will be there and lay low for a bit and then they'll ramp it up again. >> on monday ukrainian government cargo plane was shot down. on wednesday a ukrainian fighter jet was shot down. some reports indicate maybe by a russian fighter jet. is this more of the attacks you

get when you got sort of nonuniformed almost a mercenary force of separatists of rebels getting involved and getting their hands on sophisticated military weaponry. >> i think what they're going to do separatists will take advantage of any target they see that they think they can get to as long as they have weaponry that can do it. again, i don't think we'll see anymore of these kinds of missiles fired in the short-term we probably won't see ukrainian aircraft downed in the short-term. this will set separatists back a bit. those weapons will still be there. they'll come out when the guys feel like they need to use them and ukrainian government is going to play this to the degree it can looking for the west for more kinds of support for their own efforts there to keep ukraine together ch. i would say this story has a ways to go but it will be some time before an international investigating authority has come in there and decide who had that

missile and fired it and u.s. intelligence probably knows already but is not going to say anything. >> if it was the separatists and if vladimir putin gave them the keys to that thing, doesn't the world come down on vladimir putin in a serious way here? >> that's a great question. i think what are we going to do to him is going to be what we are going to ask. we have sanctions on him right now. a lot of the european allies aren't as deep into sanctions as we are because they have trade issues with russia and international issues with russia and they don't want to upset that. it remains to be seen where this is going to go with respect to how the world deals with russia. i don't think europe will jump to one side or the other. our president yesterday in speaking to putin about sanctions may indeed have known a lot more than he'll ever divulge to us about transfer of weapons from russia into the

separatist and that may be a basis for some of his discussions. he probably didn't divulge that to russians and putin probably knows that we know. >> regardless of the geopolitics, so much to realize and find out about what exactly happened here. regardless of that, you have 295 people who lost their lives today and a lot of families who are in a lot of pain and i wonder what sort of changes we might see more immediately as facts unveil themselves over the next several days just for the safety and security of individuals flying around the world. >> you know, it's amazing that those planes were allowed to fly over that area given the fact that there had been reports of those missiles there. ironically, i flew out of damascus a year and a half ago when the war in syria was waging and we flew right up over syria. i looked down at damascus and

the whole time i'm wondering, wow, isn't there a war going on down there and aren't we at risk flying on these airplanes? clearly the international community has to get together on some of these zones where planes are flying and lay down rules about why we do or don't fly over these areas. >> we've seen an adjustment with some airlines saying this isn't the flight path they'll take in this region. thank you very much. you're a pilot. you were taking a look at the flight paths over the last several days. this is the flight path that this airline has used consistently at least for the last several days, if not weeks or months. >> thankfully our federal aviation administration warned u.s. domestic airlines not to fly over ukraine because of the warfare going on there and to our knowledge, u.s. airlines have been avoiding that area since roughly april or so. for whatever reason, malaysia airlines decided it was a risk worth taking and today 295 souls

have paid the price. thanks for joining us for our coverage today. i'm john scott. >> i'm jenna lee. more coverage on fox news and back to shep at the news deck. >> you mentioned malaysia airlines was flying over that space but the united kingdom is calling it an area unsuitable for domestic aircraft. air france flew over that space and turkish airways and others. it's our understanding now from look at the live flight track that no one is flying over that area now. i would venture to guess no one would be shooting there as well. think of what we have coming together here. this is ramadan. there are no muslims on the plane most likely. who flies that route? oil people, wealthy businessmen fly that route. we're led to believe there may be as many as 23 americans who

were onboard that. and if you're one of these separatists and if you are responsible for this, you've created a situation for vladimir putin now, which is really untenable. if the early reporting is right and people in the east of ukraine shot this plane out of the sky by accident as it would appear in early going though we can't confirm that, if that's what happened, vladimir putin's equipment that he sent over to ukraine to be involved in this conflict, his missiles have shot, among others, americans out of the sky and they're dead. we now have a very serious set of circumstances that relates to that. i should tell you that the president of the united states is scheduled to speak in just a few minutes. it's a previously scheduled event at the port of wilmington in delaware in front of the i-495 bridge. on fox broadcast stations and on my network stations who are with us now along with fox news channel viewers, we'll be

hearing from the president and what he knows in just a matter of minutes. our leland vittert has been working in that region until recently and made contacts there and has a statement from the separatists themselves. >> reporter: exactly. remember the separatists originally put out that they believe they shot down a ukra e ukrainian cargo plane around the time the malaysian airliner fell from the sky. that was originally the separatists statement and then they put out another statement effectively on their twitter page, social media page associated with these separatists, denying it saying it was ukrainian government. they just issued a statement to one of our folks there still in ukraine. they are saying "ukrainian assault men shot down this plane. the prosecution office of the people's republic is investigating." they also say this. this is where it gets interesting. airspace above the republic, which is what they call themselves there in the eastern part of ukraine, is the territory over independent

states and by international law they reserve a right to respond if it is invaded. they go onto say separatists declare if they were to find anything, they would transfer the black boxes from that plane to moscow. moscow is their separatist supporter there in that part of the country. shep? >> leland vittert with us. thanks very much. so we've been getting updates throughout the day that the ukrainian president has now called this act an act of terror and saying that terrorists have brought this plane down. it is obviously the ukraine government's belief at this moment that separatists in the eastern part of ukraine fired a missile aimed most likely at something else which instead struck malaysia airlines flight 17 which was en route from a amsterd amsterdam. all 295 people onboard that plane did lose their lives. a debris field of nine miles now

stretches across the region. according to reporting on the ground there. the remains of the people who died in this tragic crash are spread for miles across the east of ukraine. it's 2:00 on the east coast. 11:00 a.m. on the west coast. at this hour, 9:00 p.m. in east of ukraine where the investigation is beginning and the talks have begun on what it was that caused malaysia airlines flight 17 to crash from the sky. we're expecting in just a matter of minutes the president of the united states to speak. as i mentioned, he had a previous scheduled engagement in delaware and he'll be speaking on other matters but we are led to believe and certainly it would make sense that he would speak to this matter first. we expect the president will speak on this matter. it's very