force. it gives strength to the president's words. this president has been hesitant to see that model as the one for him. the result is in part we have these sort of weak or gentle statements and doesn't have much influence over world leaders in which he should be expected to have influence. that is a problem he faces. >> thank you. we will see you tonight at 6:00. there in washington awaiting the president. he will not miss a moment as soon as he comes out we will bring him to you. >> the president speaking momentarily. >> "happening now" starting right now, we will see you at 3:00. >> this is unanticipated,

unplanned, unscheduled appearance by the president and a lot of anticipation of what he will say on the situation in ukraine and flight 17. tensions are heating up over access to flight 17s crash scene and what comes next specifically with russia. hope you are off a great start your week so far, i am general generally. jon: it will be interesting to see what the president has to say. the black boxes have been recovered. we have seen video to suggest that but rebels are said to be removing evidence as well as hundreds of bodies from the crash site, piling them up and holding them in railroad cars miles away preventing investigators from determining the exact circumstances that surrounded this disaster. steve harrigan is live from the desk. >> another factor slowing down impartial investigation in the

fighting, a major city of about a million people, about 45 miles away from the crash scene. you can see the smoke rising behind me, both sides as well as ukrainian forces have tanks in this battle. a number of rocket launchers with what sounds like the russian rocket launcher firing multiple salvos sometimes up to eight or nine at a time. civilians have a mixed attitude, some just going about their business, others really gathering up their belongings, taking what they have and going on the run. the quest to get them out in front of the crash site, that is the top priority right now and for the first time investigators have reached the train were up to 170 of those bodies are now being kept. the train itself not moving yet.

the situation where the fighting will only slow things down getting experts on and moving those bodies out. where about as far as we can get with both sides using armor and artillery against each other. jon: must be frustrations about the way this is all happening, the rebels preventing the world from getting in there to access the bodies to figuring out what exactly happened to bring down this plan. >> of course the viewpoint is very divergent depending on whether you are a russian watching russian news or a ukrainian. we hear some unusual theories around the crash site from many russians who will tell you this is an american conspiracy, so if you do watch russian state

controlled news you can have a very unusual viewpoint not far from that crash site. jon: do we know where the black boxes are going now? >> it looks like video that some of the people on the scene russian backed rebels had possession of one of those plate data recorders known as the box black box. they are heard in detail discussing their possessions of the flight data recorders and how important those are two hands.to keep them from getting all these bits of circumstantial evidence points to the growing sense there is an effort to delay things on the part of the

rebels and behind them on the part of russia to make sure they maintain control of the evidence and the facts on the ground before they allow any international investigators on the scene. jon: that is going to be appalling if a plane crash is not on russian soil if the black boxes go to russia, that is going to stir up international outrage. steve, thank you. jenna: in the meantime in washington we have heard in the 10:00 hour if we can a preside e president. we have been waiting for about 15 minutes. there's anticipation, what is the president going to say,

after some questions raised by secretary of state john kerry yesterday. we will keep our eyes on the south lawn of the white house where we expect the president to come walking up. in the meantime, brit hume and bret baier. with the news over the last 24 hours, what do you expect from the president today? >> i think a call for security having access to investigators and also retrieval of bodies from the mh 17 is going to fit in somewhere in this conversation. perhaps more pointed commentary or statements about russia's involvement, sensory of state john kerry connect the dots of more. and as we mentioned last week u.s. investor to the united nations made a compelling speech that connected the dots much more than the president did in his statement last week.

i think stepping up the pressure perhaps in a broad sense on european nations to step up sanctions were at least the possibility of those. >> bear this in mind, he has the need for russia and prudence pus cooperation. people do not want any more involvement in this ukraine situation than we had, some people want less. that is always one of the challenges in foreign policy any american president, the united states may be more weary, but that is when people are this

country. they do not appeal to people unless they are thought to be absolutely necessary. so a president in order to engage militarily or in some strongly with economic sanctions that would further and large our role in this conflict need to build support, and if the presidency, the speeches, policy and actions prior to the moment i'm not effectively done that, he is always confronted with the fact public opinion is against him and that can be hard to overcome. some overcome it by action, but you have to do it, to be interesting to see what the president says today. there seems to be a feeling in the world the shootdown of this airplane is a particularly terrible atrocity and the blood is on vladimir putin's hands and

the question is whether president obama will step up, seize the moment and use it as a way to bring more pressure to bear on him through sanctions or whether he will with the need for russian cooperation in other areas restrain. jon: we heard the kind of things brit just said, blood on putin's hands. we heard that from employees, they were both as you noted much stronger in their condemnation of what happened here then the president himself, is this an opportunity for him to ramp up the language a little bit, or is he going to continue to remain a little bit more circumspect, do you think? >> obviously smith power and john kerry, john kerry not as much as u.s. investor to the united nations linking it directly to russia and to putin,

brit's right about the use of power in the traditional sense of the u.s. and how they have used it in the past. president obama has tapped the use of the military by saying they will be no more u.s. much involvement above what we are already doing. we are providing the ukrainians meals ready eat as opposed to any kind of weapons, lethal weapons, and that as critics on capitol hill wish that had happened up until now. rightly so the polls show america's more weary and doesn't want to get involved. as far as backing up the strong language whether the words really carry weight around the world is a question. >> we enjoy hearing your analysis of the crisis from the

united states from the president's point of view, but try to get in the mind of vladimir putin for a minute, this is clearly something he does not welcome, didn't want, trying to fight this proxy war without a lot of attention coming down on him, now all we said in the world's attention is focused on russia and what it has been and is doing, what is he thinking? >> this a different matter than what his being called out on crimea. he had it figured out, he didn't want any off ramps and undeterred by the criticism and went ahead and did what he wanted to do, everybody has sort of forgot about it o wasn't talking about it. this is a little different in the sense he wanted to do this through his proxies, as you suggested, john. he has succeeded to some extent althougof the pushback has beeng lately. then this, and atrocity, and

this casts him and his efforts in a different light and so far if you're looking at him, his reaction has been to deny everything, to blame it on the ukrainians they did it or whatever. the problem is nobody seems to believe that, that isn't going to wash in the world, that is where we are. it is a tight spot for him. this isn't a particularly subtle maman, sent a man who specializs in making smoothing statements, this is a rather crude man, he tends to do things in a crude way, so we will see. jenna: interested talk about a bit about russia, the reports coming up friday and the day after, we're taking the news in from our point of view across

the united states. one of the television reports in russia suggested the plane was shot down by ukrainians because the ukrainians believed one to put in was on the plane, that is one of the propaganda spins inside russia. blame her putin has lot of support inside russia. interesting to hear the security of state john kerry yesterday, one of the things he said was we are not drawn bhushan, but there is need for them to be responsibl responsible. considering the situation in ukraine because of the energy source russia provides to that continent, but why the hesitancy to the arms side, what are we waiting for, what political dynamics are at play preventing a stronger statement, stronger condemnation on russia? >> the u.s. relies on russia and

number of diplomatic fronts including syria and iran currently negotiations over the iran nuclear program. jenna: have they been great partners? >> no, they'r they are horrible partners. there are a lot of critics on capitol hill who say what is the tangible benefits russia has provided in the syrian negotiations, what is happening with the iran negotiations extended without sanctions. where is the benefit. the administration will tell you they're still helping to move the ball on a number of fronts, but i think there is a skeptical sense on capitol hill about that, and now there is a field the president is after secretary john kerry and investor of united nations he would go further linking it to russia and

perhaps use this as a way to get some leverage on putin he may not have had before. a big question, let me also point out we were told 10:50, it is now almost 11:15. this has happened number of times in big statements from president obama obviously he has the prerogative and things may be happening but noting the time frames. >> he doesn't think much of cable news and he is trying to get us to blow through as many commercial breaks as possible and lose as much money as possible. you can understand it, it is frustrating, seeing us debating what he might say for 25 minut

minutes. jenna: i think you just jinx things because s&s he say that, the president appears, we have to get to this breaking news. here is the president of the united states. president obama: good morning, everybody be it i want to make a brief statement about the tragedy in ukraine, but first i want to note secretary kerry has departed from the middle east. israel has a right to defend itself against rockets and attacks from hamas, and as a result, israel has already done significant damage to terrorist infrastructure in gaza. i have also said, however, we have serious concerns about the rising number of palestinian civilian deaths and loss of is really likes. that is why it's now has to be our focus and the focus of the international community to bring about a cease-fire that ended as the fighting and that can stop

the deaths of innocent civilians both in gaza and israel. so secretary kerry will meet with allies and partners, i've instructed him to push for immediate sensation of facilities base and a return to the november 2012 cease-fire agreement between israel and hamas in gaza. the work will not be easy, obviously there are enormous sanctions involved in this and difficult strategic issues involved, nevertheless i have asked john to do everything he can to help facilitate, we don't want any more civilians getting killed. with respect to ukraine, to has now been four days since malaysian airlines flight 17 was shot down over territory controlled by russian backed separatists in ukraine.

over the last several days our hearts have been absolutely broken as we have learned more about the extraordinary and beautiful lights that were lost. men, women, children and infants who were killed so suddenly and so sadly. our thoughts and prayers continue to be with the families around world who are going through unimaginable grief. i've had a chance to speak to a number of leaders around the world and citizens lost on this flight and all of them remain in a state of shock but frankly also in a state of outrage. our immediate focus is on recovering those who were lost, investigating exactly what happened and putting forward the facts. we have to make sure that the truth is out, accountability

exists. international investigators are on the ground, they have been organized, i've since teams and other countries have sent teams, they are prepared, organized to conduct what should be the kinds of protocols and scouring and collecting of evidence that should follow any international incident like this, and what they need right now is immediate and full access to the crash site. we need to be able to conduct a prompt, full, unimpeded as well as transparent investigation. recovery personnel has to do with solomon sigrid work of recovering remains of those who were lost. ukrainian president has declared a demilitarized zone across the crash site. international teams already in place prepared to conduct the

investigation and recover the remains of those who have been lost, but unfortunately the russian backed separatists continue to block investigation. they have repeatedly prevented international investigators from gaining full access to the wreckage, investors approached, fire the weapons into the air, they are removing evidence from the crash site all of which begs the question what exactly are they trying to hide. moreover, these russian backed separatists are removing bodies from the crash site. oftentimes without the care that we would normally expect from a tragedy like this. this is an insult to those who lost loved ones. kind of behavior that has no place in the community of nations. now russia has extraordinary influence over them, nobody

denies that. russia has urged them on, russia has trained them, but no russia has armed them with military equipment and weapons including antiaircraft weapons, key leaders are russian citizens, sir given the direct influence, russia and president putin in particular has direct response abilities upon them to cooperate with the investigation, that is the least we can do. president putin says he supports a full and fair investigation not appreciate those words they have to be supported by actions. the burden now is on russia to insist they stop tampering with evidence, grand investigators already on the ground immediate, full and unimpeded access to the crash site. they are responsible for the

safety of the vesting it is doing their work along with allies and partners will work this issue a at united nations today. more broadly as i have said throughout this crisis and the crisis in ukraine, if that is directly to president putin as well as publicly, i want to find a diplomatic resolution within ukraine. i believe that can still happen, that is my preference today and will continue to be my preference but if russia continues to back these separatists and they become more and more dangerous and are now readily wrist ukraine for the broader in special community, russia fully further isolate itself from a special community in the cost for russia's behavior will only continue to increase. else time for presiden presidenn and russia to pivot away from

the strategy we been takingout o resolve hostilities within ukraine in a way that respects ukraine's sovereignty and the right of ukrainian people to make the own decisions about their own lives. time is of the essence. our friends and allies need to be able to recover those that were lost, that is a least we can do, the least that decency demands. families deserve to lay their families to rest with dignity, the world deserves to know exactly what happened. and the people of ukraine deserve to determine their own future. thanks. jon: no follow-up questions to be answered by the president, the statement fairly short, he promised it would be, there on the south lawn regarding the situation in ukraine and russian behavior accompanying that.

let's bring in great human in washington. brit, you heard the presidential outrage, what did you think of his tone? >> everything said about russia, role it plays, that was all true and fine, but always expect him saying if russia doesn't live up to these response abilities and do the right things, you think i will do x or our allies will do x. but they continue to isolate themselves, the cost will be high. you hear a president or other leaders talk about another country's obvious flagrant behavior further isolating it, that means that is a sign as far as i statement is concerned, no action will be announced. it is really an empty threat.

putin's interest says kai get away with this, lie about this and cover it up and get away with it. when there are no consequences enumerated by another leaders such as obama, what makes him think he can't? jon: i have noticed the level of anger seems to be scarce stepping upward each time he makes remarks but he mentioned in this speech he has been on the phone with other world leaders who expressed their shock and outrage, you have to wonder if some of their shock and outrage didn't rub off on him. >> may be. all he had to do was take samantha power. the u.s. ambassador. without say about that is it is all words.

i'm not saying what he is leading to do here is easy, it is not easy to get europe to act or bring the public behind you if you're trying to do something to strengthen things. now this is easy, but this is what the presidency is about, form policy and defense, national security, these are the providences of the government. the states have no foreign form policies, private sector have no policies, the private sector have no armies or navies or implements of military power. this is uniquely the executive branch of the government with funds provided by congress. you have members of congress think he is not being strong enough, so there he is, is this a sign of greater strength from him on this issue? decisiveness? good question. jon: i'm reminded of his first year presidency with so many

addresses and the criticism was he felt by talking through an issue he could effectively change, do you think that is a little bit of what is going on here? >> these are intellectual habits of an academic, you don't do anything if you try to win arguments, tried to persuade people or convince people your view is right. i don't think moral suasion will work with vladimir putin or that it will have an effect on him. putin is a rough hombre. and a liar, and a guy interested who is a root. my sense about it is you have to confront him with something that will burn him or worry him or he will give doing whatever he thinks is in his interest to do.

jon: it is good to have you on, thank you. the national security correspondent at "the washington post." you probably heard our conversations with brit. said there are some words here, but no consequences invoked by the president for russia's behavior be had are there things going on behind the scenes he didn't mention that we don't know about? >> what is going on behind the scenes is a parallel investigation going on. investigators on the scene in ukraine having a really difficult time getting access to the black boxes, united states government and intelligence agencies trying to build a case based on satellite imagery and other evidence, not just ukrainian separatists behind this shoot down, but what role

exactly did the russian government play? can make incontrovertible case the russians were behind this, that will be very difficult for moscow to ignore. jon: i have been surprised by the evidence that has been released by ukrainian government officials and some by the united states, but the report this missile launcher, this buk missile launcher came from rush into ukraine, fired missiles and spirited back across the border. are you confirming that as well? >> that's what the american government is saying. youtube videos, evidence released i the government, it is all circumstantial at this point, but if the united states government can solidify that evidence and make it public,

that will be difficult for moscow to ignore and difficult for european allies to ignore, if they can see a very hard case with tangible evidence that the russians and ukrainian separatists greatly responsible for this, that is going to change the equation here pretty quickly. jon: craig is a nationals get a correspondent at "the washington post." a very busy week for you. jenna: the president already under fire for his executive order, signing a new one today about an hour ago. that new one affects 30 million people be at what it is and what to expect coming up. israel destroyed two more tunnels leading to the gaza strip to its territory. john kerry heading to cairo seeking a cease-fire. why our next guest says hamas is not interested in any deal and why it centers on what is happening next door in egypt. we will explain coming up.

and has a white house been tough enough responding to the downing of a passenger plane in ukraine? let's go to foxnews.com/happening now. weigh-in on our chat. we will see you after this.

>> brand new video of the fighting raging in gaza as hamas rockets continue to hit israel. today's violence comes as secretary of state john kerry heads to the region in hopes of brokering a cease fire between israel and hamas. the terrorist group has said no to similar deals in the past week so what's next for this conflict? we'll see if it's a successful trip. this is one that we like to see resolved so what is the key to making that happen? how can john kerry play a role in that? >> israelis would like to see parts of gaza demilitarized.

that's their goal. hamas wants something much bigger, higher. they want israelis to stop, they want also to open a port, a seaport, an airport to have a complete sovereignty control, meaning to locate them. hamas, look. we can get you a cease fire and then negotiate. hamas saying, no. first we get everything we want. then we negotiate. >> what changes that? >> what changes that is basically additional pressure by the united states on the friends of hamas, those who are lobbying for hamas and that would be qatar and turkey. hamas is only friends now are helping them in diplomatic ways are turkey and qatar so administration needs to put more pressure to convince hamas to cease fire and then everybody goes to cairo and do the negotiations. >> what do you think it will take and why hasn't that been done thus far over the last two weeks where we really have seen the conflict ramp up?

>> well, the little secret here, which is well known in the middle east, is that hamas was then -- egypt, hamas was a brotherhood and they know that in my view one of the reasons why hamas began or at least triggered this conflict so that it could say, i want to be independent on my own. i don't need the egyptians. i want to have a little say here on the mediterranean but egypts are saying, no. we want to control those areas with you. >> do you actually see some of these countries that we have called allies, friends in the region like turkey, like qatar working with the united states? what would be in that -- in it for them? right now they like causing some drama, if you will, in this part of the world. they like that. that's part of their goal. you have the turkish prime minister come out and say the israelis don't want peace and

are responsible for genocide and he's running for office, too. what's in it for them? work with the united states and get a cease fire from gaza. >> now we have friends such as egypt and behind egypt you have saudi arabia, the u.a.e., jordan, kuwait. the moderates who either do not like hamas and then we have the other friends, qatar and turkey who like hamas. administration needs to make sure that turkey and qatar and everybody else understands first we need a cease fire. let hamas understand we need the cease fire. then we negotiate politics after we stop violence. >> you see the chances of that happening as high or not so high? >> look. as long as hamas has two things, number one, missiles and ammunition, number two, hope that turkey and qatar can convince washington to give them time. when that hope goes down -- eventually it's going to end up with a cease fire but the poor people of gaza and israel are paying the price.

>> innocent people on both side. we take a look at them as extremes on both side but there's innocent people, moderates just trying to live their life and are cut up in all of this as well. gret to see you as always. thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> more deadly fighting breaking out in ukraine between pro russian separatists and government forces. the clashes coming as bodies from the downed malaysian airliner sits rotting, apparently, in railway cars. what can the u.s. do to help the ukrainian snz what can we do about russia and its behavior? joining us is ambassador, former u.s. ambassador to the ukraine and director of the euroasia center. this has to be breaking your heart as it is for so many americans to think this crash last week has gone uninvestigated, that the bodies maybe have been collected but probably not entirely and not done so in an efficient manner. what would you say if you were

president obama wielding the levels of power in the oval office, what should be done first? >> ask the russians, mr. vladmir putin to per met a real investigation in a timely fashion and the quickest possible return of the bodies to their loved ones. mr. vladmir putin does not want this to happen. he's afraid that culpability will be firmly established. you need a clear demand for this, from not just president obama but also our european allies and if the russians don't allow this to happen, then there should be sanctions placed on -- further sanctions placed on rush ons. >> there are some norms to international behavior and one of them is that if an airliner crashes, you let investigators in there. now, the ukrainians apparently have their hands tied. they can't really provide full unfetterred access to this crash site because it's in territory

held by the pro russian rebels. is there going to be any price paid? i mean, if this investigation continues to be botched, will vladmir putin, will the rebels pay any kind of a price? that depends largely on europe and the united states. the united states last week put down some serious sanctions on the russian economy for their aggression in ukraine. europeans did not. europe is not getting angry at what's happened and maybe this will lead them to take the right course. in any case, the administration has the means, if it chooses on its own, to level even more severe sanctions against the russian economy. >> such as? >> we could forbid dollar transactions for russian financial institutions. this would make it impossible for financial institutions to conduct dollar transactions with russia. that would be crippling to the russian economy. if we even began to look at this possibility, the europeans would decide to do the right thing and issue their own sanction against

russia to do real damage. >> vladmir putin is telling his own people this is all the fault of the ukraine government. apparently the media war over there between backers of ukraine and backers of russia is severe. do you think he would ever back down having made the pronouncements that he's made so far, do you think he would back down, issue an apology and let the investigators and the world in? >> there is no question that mr. vladmir putin has the power to change his policy. yes, he has spun up the russian media to conduct an outrageous information war. as we all know, he played globals as a talented manipulator. but mr. vladmir putin has also set in motion certain things so he could retreat in ukraine and explain it to his people. it's all up to him. but we have to help encourage him to make the right decision by demonstrating the severe

penalties for his economy if he does not change course. >> and so you would -- go ahead. >> you should consider providing lethal military equipment to the ukrainians, anti-tank, anti-aircraft and air to ground missiles to the ukrainians so they could more quickly defeat these russian led, russian supplied rebels. >> ambassador herbs to the former ambassador to the ukraine, some very strong thoughts there, sir. thanks very much. >> you, too. >> sub prime loan market nearly collapsed the u.s. open. now word the loans are back again. where they are and how much damage they can cause to us overall and new technology that may revolutionize the auto industry and save you some time and money. we'll explain next.

>> story of the risky sub prime loan system that led to the u.s. housing collapse could be repeating itself in the used car market. that's according to "the new

york times." that's reporting predatory lending tactics are back again impacting americans, especially low income americans when they go to buy a car, pushing them into debt and even bankruptcy. mcdowell is here with more on this. we have an idea how this worked in the housing market. how is it working in the car market? >> from up far it does look similar, sub prime housing market to the sub prime auto market. sniemz sniemz pelled more than 3,000 words on the market. you have people with poor credit, poor credit documentation, getting auto loans to buy cars too expensive for their financial situations, very often with extremely high interest rates. at the same time, large banks and lenders are willingly making these loans because investors want to buy the loans, are hungry for income because interest rates are so rock bottom, so low. but bigger picture, when you say sub prime, we all have to be

really careful. we think financial collapse, the economic downturn, a bailout of the banking system and first and foremost, the dollar volume of car lending in a sub prime car lending isn't enough to wipe out the banks and require a bailout, number one. and unlike the housing boom, these lenders know that the car, the asset depreciates in value. one of the hallmarks of the housing boom and bust was that lend makers didn't think that housing markets would fall and didn't write the loans appropriately. "new york times" covers a lot of these loans that are made to people where it appears as if the car dealers are filling out paperwork and making up information about people's incomes, where they work, their job histories and getting them into loans that are way more than the value of the car which is illegal, frankly. >> and it's not covered by the banking industry because this is part of the car dealers, not

necessarily the lenders that are doing this. so as we're getting to the end of summer, you're going to start seeing labor day sales for cars out there. anything viewers should know if they're in the market for cars just to protect themselves snz >> there's so many places online that you can go and research this but you have to know what kind of interest rate is on the loan and what you'll be able to afford in a monthly payment. i think that a car payment, it's really obvious that whether you're going to be able to make that payment on a regular basis or not and if you're buying a used car, you have to buy the cheapest car absolutely possible. a lot of these loans, at leebt some anecdotes in the stories, the loans were worth way more than the cars were worth. >> good advice to put in the back of your head. speaking of cars, dagen, the world's first self cleaning car made an appearance this morning. this looked like a good deal. >> i was watching the video. there's a company based out of

florida called ultra tech international that has patented a water repellant -- not just water but kind of muck repellant finish for an automobile and at least nissan on its lease is testing this finish. so far it's a matte paint finish z. it only comes in white. >> you have to reapply it every year but i have the perfect solution for keeping your car clean all the time. >> what is that? >> make your husband do it. interior and the exterior. >> that could work. >> dudes love that stuff. >> i want to you tell your husband, the former navy seal, to go out and wash the car. >> he takes really good care of his truck. >> i guarantee you, you will never have to ask him to wash the car. he will do it on his own. >> that's right. interesting. i like the car, the idea that the muck comes off.

when it comes in other colors, it will be more options. >> i believe the dollars is two to three dollars per foot on the car that need to be applied by professionals. it would be great for the company if a car manufacturer jumps on it and makes it an option. >> looks good with the hershey's sauce all over it. dagen, thank you. good to see you as always. >> thanks. >> can i get that for my kitchen counters? >> maybe on more things in just the car. >> i'm all over that. the pressure seems to be mounting now on vladmir putin to get the investigation into the crash of flight 17 moving forward. will the russian president double down on his resistance? or will he actually allow it to happen? an analyst weighing in just ahead. so get out there, and get the best price guaranteed. find it for less and we'll match it and give you $50 toward your next trip. expedia. find yours.

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>> downing of the malaysia

airlines flight putting new strains on u.s. strains with russia. russia gave the rebels in eastern ukraine sophisticated anti-aircraft systems in recent weeks. all this as vladmir putin continues to blame ukraine as the outcry from world leaders who say he must cooperate in the investigation. peter brooks, senior fellow and former c.i.a. operative joins us now. when you were in the navy, you were flying reconnaissance missions over the soviet union and you turned your focus on that part of the world in the subsequent years. what did you learn then and what have you learned the last several years that you think needs to apply now in dealing with russia when it comes to this situation? >> i think that the russians don't respect weakness, i think if they find us ir resolute about this issue, they will take advantage of it and i think that will play a very important role here as to how these events and this investigation and the future unfolds in regards to relations with russia in that part of the world. >> what would accountability

look like? >> if russias would open up, it would allow us to do a full investigation but if they perceive there's not going to be a vigorous response to this, i think that they will try to opt any possibility of getting to the truth about this. we may be able to learn that in intelligence but through an open fashion and legal fashion so i think there's real problems and i think -- my view, jenna, is that the weakness on ukraine along with the europeans, probably led to this terrible tragedy because russia felt like -- and vladmir putin felt like he could do what he wanted to do in that part of the world that led to the insurgency. >> we want to gather all the facts in all of this but do you think our focus is too much on the investigative part of this and not enough on the policy part and engaging russia and the waiting for the facts, is that going to be detrimental to holding russia accountable if that indeed needs to happen? >> there's probably several investigations going on. we want to do openly in ukraine,

obviously intelligence communities looking at this, if they can find out complicity, russian complicity, who pulled the trigger on this situation. policy, i think that's what the white house is waiting before they make any policy decisions but at the same time, if it looks like they're just dragging their feet and not going to do anything about it, then that may embolden vladmir putin further. the possibility if there's a bigger response here is that vladmir putin may draw back and stop his support of this insurgency. >> and specifically, what would a vigorous response look like? >> well, if you knew enough -- now, i want to make sure we know enough. i'm outside the government and you're outside the government. we don't know everything. if we felt like this was something that led to moscow's or kremlin's doorsteps, i think sanctions, supporting ukrainians to a much bigger degree momentarily so they could deal with this insurgency. like i said, this weakness we showed in crimea, along with europeans led us to where we are today in terms of insurgency and

this terrible tragedy in the air over the ukraine. it's important that we respond vigorously and quickly. >> thank you very much. we appreciate it. we'll be right back with more "happening now."

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