[ crowd chanting ] >> this is a fox news alert. i'm geraldo rivera reporting that even as anti-israel protests block washington, israel continues to bomb gaza this saturday night with artillery strikes aimed at destroying the hamas network of tunnels. even as word comes from jerusalem that the israeli soldier thought captured is dead. tonight we are live in gaza. and as graphic images of more dead and injured palestinian women and children serve sometimes ugly,

anti-semitic reactions, the son of hamas leader says that reaction is exactly what the terror group wants. >> hamas does not care for the lives of palestinians. don't think for a second, please, that hamas cares for the children's blood. they want the children of gaza to die. >> tonight as israel announces plans to scale down military operations once the mission is accomplished, i'll ask my panel whether even once the tunnels are destroyed this is still mission impossible. >> we will continue acting according to the security need and only according to the security needs of israel until we have the target of bringing security back to our citizens of israel. up front tonight, prime minister benjamin netanyahu making that announcement that israel is close to its stated goal of destroying the tunnels hamas has used to attack israel. the chief spokesman for the

prime minister, mark regev, joins me right now from tel aviv. mark, good evening. thank you very much for coming on. you have heard the angry anti-semitic chants now coming from the streets of europe. demonstrations throughout much of that part of the world very anti-israeli, much of it anti-semitic. these civilian casualties in gaza giving fodder to the enemies of israel. mark, what do you do about it? >> first of all, there's that picture. and you're right. there is a lot of antisemitism there. you only have to read the charter of hamas to see good old-fashioned antisemitism. i mean, the conspiracy theories out there about ju jews that we thawed had vanished from this planet all there in black and white in hamas's official charter. a lot of hamas's friends across the planet share those sort of racist anti-semitic views.

i'd like to, though, point to the other side. we have seen hamas today condemned internationally, condemned for its rocketing of israeli cities, condemned for rejecting humanitarian cease-fires. that's not just in the west. even in the arab world, hamas is more isolated than ever before. you saw that piece, i'm sure, two or three days ago in the "new york times." even the arab world today looks at hamas and they blame hamas for the misfortune and tragedy going on in gaza today. the truth is it's right to blame hamas. this conflict was initiated by hamas. this conflict could have ended more than two weeks ago when my government accepted an egyptian-proposed cease-fire and hamas said no to that. this tragedy is solely the responsibility of hamas and people understand that. most of all i think the people in gaza are beginning to understand that, too. >> mark regev, i have to leave threat. good luck to you to israel. hopefully a cease-fire is over

the horizon sometime soon. thank you very much for being with us. joining me live right here in our new york studio, israel ambassador to the united states, haram prasser. we received news late this evening that lieutenant hadar golden is dead. how do you know he is dead? and what exactly do you know about it? >> first, this is tragic. secondly, you know that the in the jewish tradition if we decide to say something like this, we have evidence because of the sensitivity i don't want to go into it now. but i'm sure at a later stage all the details will be out on this. >> do you have his remains in israeli custody, mr. ambassador? >> that's why i said it's sensitive. but there's a clear statement on this. and believe me, as you know in the past, we are very very very careful to make a statement like

that. >> i totally respect that, mr. ambassador. may we now assume, now that that issue is resolved, this is the death, the ambush, the capture, the alleged capture of lieutenant golden that shattered the 72-hour cease-fire that secretary kerry and others had negotiated? so it's very critical to know, will israel now, as the prime minister alluded earlier this evening, begin winding down military operations in gaza? >> well, the prime minister was very clear. we are redeploying and making sure that we get the terrorist tunnels. and by the way, if i may say that, on the terror tunnels i have a feeling that some of the international community has a tunnel vision of the terror tunnels. tense, narrow, blaming israel for everything and not allowing

hamas to really -- ones that are using those terror tunnels against israeli communities. it would seem. so we are redeploying but we will keep on making sure that the tunnels are out, and continue against infrastructure, military infrastructure of hamas. >> but that's not the same thing. you say the terror tunnels are almost finished. but you're going to keep going against the hamas infrastructure. does that mean the violence in gaza continues? >> it's like you saw. from our point of view, we said yes to seven cease-fires. we want to end this. the equation is quite simple. if it's going to be quiet in israel it's going to be quiet in gaza. so we are redeploying and doing it unilaterally. >> i hate to be nitpicking. are you saying that if hamas stops firing rockets, israel will stop firing into gaza? >> absolutely. >> so there'll be a de facto cease-fire if hamas stops the

rocket firing? >> well, the answer is yes. 72 hours, all seven cease fires israel said yes to. hamas broke. they have this interesting notion of a cease-fire. we cease and they fire. so if they change -- >> you cease, they fire. that's true. do you worry about -- i mentioned with mark regev of this worldwide hatred directed to israel? >> of course. but in the sense you say to yourself, what can we do? we disengaged out of gaza. not head of israeli foreign service. we opened gaza. we left greenhouses that they burned to the ground. we wanted gaza to become singapore. we have nothing against the palestinian people. but we have a real problem with the terrorist organization which goes beyond just this. this is jihadist. you see that effect all over the arab world. you see it in syria, in iraq. those guys have a mission. and the mission goes to destroy not just israel but everything that they feel goes against

their ideology, which is destruction and death. >> mr. ambassador, i wish we could have a meeting one day where we'll say that all this is behind us. thank you for being with me today. >> thank you. coming up as the fighting in gaza continues, the disproportionate civilian casualties. over 1700 palestinian dead, many of them women and children, are leading toin tense pressure on both israel and its one and only true friend, the united states. how's that battle going for the hearts and mind? allegations of media bias. don't forget ukraine. the civil war raging in the heart of europe. we'll be back in a flash.

[ crowds chanting ]

hey hey ho ho the occupation's got to go. hey hey ho ho the occupation's got to go. >> is the coverage of the fighting in gaza biassed? and if it is slanted which way does it bend? our guest ward zuckerman a friend of mine, billionary businessman is in an ideal position to judge media coverage. not only the past chairman of the conference of major american jewish organizations, he also owns the terrific ""new york daily news"" here in the studio a prominent journalist born in israel believes the coverage of the middle east is biassed when it comes to israel, biassed in favor of israel. she had a real confrontation with a former bosses at msnbc. here is rula on msnbc. >> because in the media. we are ridiculous. we are disgustingly biassed when

it comes to the issue. look at how many time netanyahu have on the air on daily basis. i never see one palestinian being interviewed on this same issue. >> so before i go to rula, what do you think in terms of media bias, what you just heard? >> there are a lot of people who feel that a lot of the press is tilted against israel. a lot of the people who feel that it's tilted in favor of israel. but guess what? that's the way the media works. some come out on one side of the issue, others on the other side of the issue. i think it's a very tufl battle to figure out who's ahead and i think it varies from moment to moment. when you look at what happens when israel was heavily criticized for some of the last sad civilian casualties that came out of what they were doing, it was one thing. when the israelis were the recipients of 2900 missiles that were armed missiles, it went in the other direction. some people will call it bias,

some people will call it reasoned judgment. >> right. you know, rula, welcome live. my wife erica, like you i have a jewish spouse. wants to cancel to the description to the "new york times" because she thinks it's biassed against israel. you made a statement there, very bold and powerful statement on msnbc that the media was biassed against the palestinians in favor of israel. which is it? >> well, it's very simple. look at not only how much air time we give israeli officials versus palestinian officials. without challenging israeli position not on their narrative. without challenging them on the failing policies. two questions that have been asked. one is about what do you want to do with the palestinian majority that are living in west bank and gaza? how would you accept eventually to couple the demilitarization to occupation. the way to eliminate extremism is by giving aspiration of palestinians for a dignity and a better life and a sovereign state. this is the way to go.

what we are not being able to do as media is to be less emotional. and i understand your wife. >> there is a very strong views on all sides of the issue. i think we call it democracy. i don't know. it's just a strange word to use. it's called freedom of the press. but you have to trust that the american public or whoever is the public is going to make up their own minds on the basis of learning and reading and watching both sides of the issue. this is the way our system works. and i happen to like it. others may not like it. just seems to me this is something that those of us in the media have to do our best to be as fair-minded as possible. >> let's look about one thing. just how many people here on fox news do you have that are from arab descent? >> i don't know. >> i'll tell you. zero. and this is what we are lacking. this is the narrative that i think was never told, the story of people that live for 45 years under military occupation and have one dream, to have a

sovereign state or to live with dignity. without the soldiers telling them where to go and what to do. this is only one dream. and if we don't manage to solve that issue and their aspiration, we will give them and we'll leave them in the hand of extremists. this is my concern and my fear. if we don't question policies extremists win. >> i'm not in favor of having the extremists do policy on either side. but i have been involved in this whole negotiation for many, many years, okay? and i can say that there were constructive proposals put forth by a number of israeli leaders and by some of the palestinian leaders. they did make some progress on occasion. and i agree with you, there are extremists on all sides of these issues. but i think the bulk of people in israel, including the current administration in israel, are trying very hard to reach a compromise on these issues. but i hope there will be that moment when they can reach an agreement. i don't know that it will happen. i hope it does happen.

and you just have to wait until the conditions are right for it to happen. i don't agree with you that one side is so completely unbalanced and the other side is. i think both of them have members on either team who are shall we say extremists. but the people who are in power should have the ability and the willingness to take the chances that are necessary to bring about a resolution of this issue. >> i've got to leave it there. mort, thank you very much. and rula, a pleasure. don't be a stranger. >> never. we'll continue more on today's fighting in gaza. the great israeli-palestinian debate. and the other war ukraine and russia as investigators dodge bullets to retrieve the remains of 80 passengers from malaysian flight 17. but still not getting relief? try dulcolax laxative tablets. dulcolax is comfort-coated for gentle, over-night relief.

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this is a fox . this is a fox news alert. the israeli soldier feared captured by hamas in gaza, 23-year-old lieutenant hadar golden is dead as we have been reporting with details let's go thrive fox correspondent connor powell in gaza. what do we know, connor? how did the israelis discover the fate of this young man? we have a bit of a delay, but tell us what you know. >> reporter: right, geraldo. so for the past sort of 24 hours, the israeli government had said that this lieutenant, second lieutenant hadar golden had been captured by hamas while trying to destroy a tunnel, a cross-border tunnel that the israeli military had been focusing on in the rafa area in southern gaza. hamas had denied this. both their political wing and their military wing. the military wing didn't deny there was an attempt to capture this second lieutenant, but they said that they didn't have him, they had lost contact with their

militants that had been sent to capture and to fight the israelis. they said all along they did not have him. now, later tonight the israeli military said they had done a forensic investigation of the site and they concluded that the second lieutenant was in fact killed in action and not captured and not in possession or captured by the hamas militants in that area. of course, the israeli government and military had really opened fire on southern gaza in the last 24 hours just bombarding the area in an effort to sort of try to punish those who had captured him. now we know that in fact he was not captured. so really heavy fighting had shifted from gaza city to some other places here in the gaza strip to that southern part where the israeli military just unleashed shelling all over southern gaza. that seems to have died down as has fighting across all of gaza. the israeli military announcing tonight that they are beginning to redeploy many of their troops that have been in gaza for the

last few weeks to the israeli side of the border. they are saying that the mission, the task of destroying these cross-border tunnels about 32 identified, is basically coming to an end. they said they'll continue to hit hamas for firing rockets, but they're going to sort of pull out of gaza for the most part. the conflict here officially is continuing, but unofficially, realistically we are seeing a dramatic change on the ground from the fighting in the last few weeks. >> appreciate it very much, connor powell. this is another fox news alert. despite continued fighting raging around them, the team of 70 dutch and australian investigators using sniffer dogs recovered more human remains today from the site of the down malaysian airliner in the eastern ukraine. what do we do about those responsible for the 298 deaths? former army vyse chief of staff lieutenant general jack cane is live for us tonight in d.c. so general, welcome. the bad guys not making the retrieval of those remains any

easier. is that another reason to despise them and what they do? >> well, i mean, certainly. this whole effort is an unconventional war designed by putin and his thugs using his officers to lead it, directing it, controlling it, supplying it. and this has been going on for months now. and that set the conditions for this horrific and tragic act that took place in killing these innocent people. and he, putin, should be held accountable. and his leaders certainly. >> we are hoping for concessions and compromise in the middle east. do we want concessions and compromise in ukraine? or is this do you believe, general cane, the time to confront putin in russia? >> i think we should have confronted him unequivocally as a result of annexing crimea.

the fact we haven't done that is encouraging putin. he is after a new russian empire. people are talk about is this another cold war or not. i think putin has initiated this cold war, and i think he clearly intends to win it. having watched the debacle that he believes took place in 1991 when the soviet union collapsed. and he has taken a strategic view of this. and he's absolutely counting, hlz, on the passivity of europe and the united states leadership to be able to accomplish those goals. and to date, he appears to be well on his way. >> general cane, do you believe we should be taking a victory lap for the more severe sanctions that have been announced by europe and the united states on russia? >> no, absolutely not. because are they better than what we were doing? yes. but they're so selective, geraldo, that they're not going to have the kind of impact that we want. for example, u.s. sanctions on the banging system.

five out of the six banks to be sure. it only deals with credit and equity. all other transactions can take place. the french can still deliver the amphibious ship that the russians are buying from them. and that's an absolute absurdity. >> don't you think in that regard particularly that the french would be embarrassed? shouldn't we do our best to call them out and just say, what are you? are you caving again like you did in world war ii? >> yes. i totally agree with you. but it doesn't seem to help one bit, geraldo. and i don't believe we are doing what you're suggesting. even privately. so i think the french will be able to continue on. the germans have their little selective piece, as do the brits. so the comprehensive sectorial sanctions people are desierg are still far from being enacted. >> general jack cane, thank you very much. i appreciate it, sir. thank you very much. >> good talking to you, geraldo. is public opinion back to

the middle east swinging against israel as the bloodshed continues in gaza? craig's got the story of today's duelling demonstrations, including a big one in d.c. outside the white house. don't miss that after this. it's time to bring it out in the open. it's time to drop your pants for underwareness, a cause to support the over 65 million people who may need depend underwear. show them they're not alone and show off a pair of depend. because wearing a different kind of underwear, is no big deal. join us. support the cause and get a free sample of depend at underwareness.com ever since we launched snapshot, my life has been positively cray-cray. what's snapshot, you ask? only a revolutionary tool that can save you big-time. just plug it in, and the better you drive, the more cash you'll stash. switching to progressive can already save ye $500.

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live from america's news headquarters i'm marianne rafferty. the doctor who contracted ebola is in atlanta. he caught the deadly virus while working with patients in lie beer yeah. hospital workers are wearing special protective suits to treat them. a second american doctor infected with ebola will arrive soon. it spread by bodily fluids and is talt 60 to 80% of the time. in california dry lightning and severe drought causing dangerous wildfire conditions.

the largest fire burning nearly 20 square miles of land in northern california, forcing about 150 homes to evacuate. it's just 20% contained. meanwhile more fires could start as new storms threaten the state. i'm marianne rafferty. now back to "geraldo rivera reports." israel thinks it's terrible to have tunnels going under the land but it's okay to go over the land. and who is killing more innocent civilians? >> i'm jewish. i'm ashamed of what israel is doing. israel must stop this for its own good and for the good of palestine and for humanity. >> this is a fox news alert. american muslim groups and other critics of the ongoing violence gaza protest things outside the white house today. the turnout including as you heard some jewish groups. the president and first family were noted in the big house at the time. they're spending the president's birthday weekend at camp david.

he turns 53 on monday. and despite today's impressive turnout, most commentators still see america's interests and israel's interests as inextricably interwoven. but the awful images we've all seen of the civilian casualties in gaza are shaking some of those long-held beliefs as craig reports. >> 15 years old. northern gaza. >> reporter: as the offensive in gaza has continued with the death toll rising, a number of protests have popped up around the world and here in the united states. union square in new york city, a number of protesters have gathered to illustrate the number of those killed during this latest round of violence.

>> it's gone mad. i'm here because my heart is broken for america and for israel. >> we're nonexistent for the most part. they don't consider us people. >> this organizer is a palestinian american college student. she is a harsh reminder of life in gaza during a recent visit with family. >> they humiliated me at the border. they assaulted me at the border. >> assaulted you in what way? >> in grabbing my passport, hitting me, thinking i was a palestinian, calling me a dirty palestinian. >> how does that make you feel? >> it makes me feel like i live in a country that sends $3.1 billion a year to israel from my tax dollars. and i'm supporting them

oppressing my people. >> reporter: israel says it will strike as long as militants inside gaza continue to attack israel. before the current round of fighting i visited gaza. gaza city is separated from israel by a two-kilometer-long buffer zone where right now at the ezra crossing we just went through a major terminal. it's kind of like a customs where we had to exit israel to enter into the gaza strip. on the other side of the two-kilometer tunnel is the palestinian authority checkpoint where special interests, ngos, people who have medical issues and peal permission cross into israel. as you can see, this is the fence that separates israel from the 17-square-mile gaza trip. this is the village of be beit hanun. this settlement very close by the israeli border. this is an area where it's of great concern to israelis. it's where palestinian fighters actually launch rockets into

israel. these residential areas still showing scars of israeli tanks as they travel into gaza, shooting along the rooftops to make sure snipers aren't up there to attack the tanks. this is the beach refugee camp. about 100,000 palestinians living on the poverty level along the shoreline here in gaza. since 2006, a blockade has been enforced along the shoreline since the 2006 cross-border raid by hamas. is it frustrating to you when you see a rocket attack by palestinian fighters drawing in

a retaliatory attack? it seems like a vicious circle. >> you cannot expect that people living under this frustration. a lot of them might think of any act just because he's losing hope at everything in his life. do you understand me? >> reporter: until the bit will fighting blockade and border restrictions, this man is among a group of palestinian businessmen attempting to revitalize gaza. he runs a five-star hotel in gaza city. a far cry from refugee camps. rampant poverty and unemployment. while he disagrees with the violence that prompted the insurge ens, he blames the harsh conditions for the 1.7 million trapped in an area the side of detroit. >> we have a neighboring [ inaudible ]. in fact, they are very bad neighbors. there's no other choice. we are neighbors. no way.

so it's their choice to make a moderate neighbor [ inaudible ] or make a very frustrated neighbor, frustrated to make any acts. understand me? >> hamas is the one to blame. i believe that free gaza from hamas. hamas is the one putting all the kid inside. >> a full-bred scholar from israel attended the new york pro steft. >> using them as human shields. you know that already. at a few times during that war there was a cease-fire. hamas continued to fire and kill israeli citizens. so there's just no end. >> reporter: while the combination of killing of -- is secretary of state john kerry an asset or liability to barack obama.

put another way, are friends of israel right to criticize the secretary in charles kroutheimer responds after this.

let me take this opportunity by the way to give secretary john kerry credit. he has been persistent. he has worked very hard. he has endured on many occasions really unfair criticism. when i see john kerry going out there and trying to broker a cease-fire, we should all be supporting him. >> my next guest is a pulitzer

prize-winning columnist whose latest things" things that matter" has been a "new york times" best seller for the last nine months. we welcome the smartest man i know dr. charles krauthammer to the program. why are you so down on secretary john kerry? >> i'm not against he's trying to get a cease-fire in fact, i think he made a terrible mistake and that's what i wrote about today when the cease-fire was proposed two weeks ago by the egyptians that was before the israeli ground incursion. think of all the lives that would have been saved. now, that cease-fire was proposed not by -- only by egypt. it was supported by the entire arab league, including saudi arabia. all the moderate arabs. and what kerry did is instead of similar am i staying home and saying the u.s. supports that cease-fire, which is what the arabs, the moderate arabs, the arabs alyled with the u.s. wanted, he goes off to paris,

negotiates with qatar and turkey who are hamas's allies and lawyers, and then sends jerusalem a set of proposals, terms that would fulfill all of hamas's demands. now, i give kerry great credit for working out that deal finally two weeks later after a lot of people have died and trying today to be very stern in placing the blame today where it belongs on hamas for the breaking of the cease-fire and the killing of israelis. so i give him credit. i think he's walked it back. and i don't expect he'll be advocating the hamas position in the future. >> you talk about all of the people who have lost their lives. these images, particularly of the children who have been killed. i just saw a piece on television that named the children being supported by various agencies. now the child is dead by a rocket. dead by an artillery shell. dead by an f-16 bomb.

i mean, does it really matter who's responsible? >> how can you end up not understanding that the person responsible for the death of that child is the one who turns down all the cease-fires, and i will remind you, started this war in the first place. israel has zero interest in a war with hamas. it began with unremitting rocket fire aimed at israeli cities, which is in and of itself a war crime. so side a starts with a war crime, and then you place the blame on side b? i think it matters. >> does it matter really? look how israel is being further and further isolated from nations in europe, in asia, in africa. it risks, doesn't it, becoming a new kind of apartheid south africa in terms of the way it's treated by the rest of the world? >> geraldo, the jews have known isolation for a long time in the 30s and the 40s, the jews were completely isolated, and they were just about wiped out in

europe, 6 million were killed. the jews now have one thing different. they have the means of defending themselves. so they worry less about isolation, which is a fact of life for the jews for 2,000 years. isolation, hostility, antisemitism that you can see pouring out in the streets of europe, including in the streets of germany holding up signs that say "hitler was right." isolation is not the jewish problem, the israeli problem. it is can they defend themselves. the united states is the only country with the moral authority and the capacity of helping israel or styming israel. that's what matters opinion here. will israel be allowed to defend itself? not asking for american troops never in all the five wars never. it simply asks its american friends to understand that it is the subject of a war crime war and needs to defend itself. it's got no other option. geraldo, if we were getting

rockets to new york and washington, do you have any doubt that we would be counter attacking? and if the enemy had their rockets hidden in cities, would we not, tryings to to go after missile sites the answer is yes. >> charles, thank you very much. >> it's a pleasure. most americans are firm in their support of israel. there are some cracks within the jewish community itself. i'll talk about it with the one and only professor allen dershowitz after this. showitz a huh, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. everybody knows that. well, did you know words really can hurt you? what...? jesse don't go! jesse...no! i'm sorry daisy, but i'm a loner. and a loner gotta be alone. heee yawww!

geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. jesse?

now is not the time for the department of defense in the united states or the president and his administration to call

israel out on civilian casualties and u casualties urge them to do more. now is the time for our administration to speak with one voice alongside the congress and condemn hamas. >> senator lindsey graham. usually, folks, it's israeli public opinion that is divided and american jewish opinion united behind israel right or wrong. this time that phenomenon, i think, is reversed. israelis are strongly supporting benjamin netanyahu while american jews like my next guest, josh wubner, policy director for the u.s. campaign to end the israeli occupation, are opposed to the current operation in gaza and the occupation of the palestinian territories. so josh, do you feel disloyal in anyway? thanks for being here, by the way. >> thank you for having me. no, not at all. in fact, there were not hundreds of people today at the white house protesting israel's attack on gaza. i was there. there actually easily tens of thousands of people.

and there were people from all races, all religions, all ethnicities, opposing u.s. complicity in israeli war crimes against the palestinian people in gaza. >> now, when you say things like that, i know in my family when i mention something like that, i get a reaction that is intensely negative from my relatives who say i'm being disloyal, that i'm undermining the negotiating position of israel. how do you deal with it, josh, at that personal level? >> i mean, look, geraldo, israel has targeted more than 160 palestinian schools and hospitals in the gaza strip over the past three weeks. these are clear war crimes and potential crimes against humanity. and i don't think anyone should be loyal to the notion of defending war crimes. >> do you believe in a two-state solution, josh? >> well, it's not whether i believe in a two-state solution. let's look at the actions of

israel by its ongoing colonization of the west bank. israel, i think, is closing the door on there being a legitimate two-state resolution to this issue. >> so you think that israel policies now are making a compromise solution to the big picture impossible? >> well, absolutely. i mean, john kerry more than a year ago testified before the senate that there was 1.5 year to 2-year window of opportunity for there being a two-state resolution. even according to the secretary of state and his timeline, that window has now closed. so the only question is, how much longer is the international community going to tolerate continued israeli apartheid control over the palestinian people and these disgusting and revolting massacres that we're seeing of palestinian civilians right josh rubner, i appreciat. policy director for the u.s. campaign to end the israeli occupation. my next guest a brilliant best-selling author friend of

mine most recently author of the book "taking the stand". america's best-known attorney, probably, from his home on martha's vineyard professor allan dershowitz joins us. you heard josh rubner. welcome, professor dershowitz. how do you respond to his sincere rage at the terrible bloodshed and suffering, the targeting of schools, et cetera? >> one minute to put context. 2001 israel -- a state on 95% of the state in gaza and they turned it down. they responded with bombings, with suicide bombings in which more israeli civilians were killed than palestinian civilians at that period of time. then the 2000 israel totally ended its occupation of the gaza left behind all the houses and farm implements. and gaza was free. they could have had elections.

they did. they elected hamas. they could have had a peace. -- but the strategy is what i call the dead baby strategy. what they did is they decided essentially to fire rockets from behind children in order to induce israel to fire back and to kill as many civilians as possible. now, israel's goal is to minimize civilians on both side. hamas's goal is to maximize civilian casualties on both sides. the only way to stop this is to insist that what hamas is doing by hiding behind civilians, by digging tunnels from civilian areas, by firing rockets on civilians is a war crime, and a double war crime, and is the cause of this. you can't stop israel from fighting back. even amas oz the greatest peacenik in israel started an interview the other day by

asking the interviewer, what would you do if your neighbor put his baby on his lap and started firing machine guns into your nursery for your children? would you not shoot back at them? these are the hardest moral questions of all. to start focusing on the number of civilians killed without focusing on the cause, and the cause being hamas. [ overlapping speakers ] >> it is impossible, though -- hold it a second. i gave you the minute. wait. i gave you the minute. it is impossible to ignore 1700 dead on one side, most of them civilians, many of the civilians women and children, and 64 dead on the other side, all of them so ma soldiers with three exceptions. we're humanists also. >> that's the whole point. israel loses soldiers. it puts its soldiers in harm's way. whereas palestinians use civilians as human shields. hamas deliberately uses the

media to try to create an atmosphere against israel. geraldo, what would you do if you were being shot at from -- if your family, your wonderful child, were being shot at by somebody who was holding his child as a human shield? would you sacrifice your child? of course israelis haven't been killed because they've developed iron dome. they have made all kinds of shelters. hamas doesn't allow their civilians to go into shelters. they insist that they be stay above ground and stay in the homes. and they want civilian casualties. and you're playing into their hands by repeating these numbers without context. >> well, i've given it plenty of context tonight. i beg to differ, professor. and i think there are two sides to this story. i appreciate you and i appreciate you coming on. we're out of time. unfortunately, ladies and gentlemen, this is a discussion, a conversation, a debate that could take us all day. i've been covering the ebb and

flow of the violence in the middle east for 40 years. i know to an absolute certainty unless and until there's a permanent two-state solution these episodes of terrible violence will just keep repeating themselves. thanks for watching. good night. so, i'm working on a cistern intake valve, and the guy hands me a locknut wrench. no way! i'm like, what is this, a drainpipe slipknot? wherever your business takes you, you can se money with progressive commercial auto. [ sighs ] [ flo speaking japanese ] [ shouting in japanese ] we work wherever you work. now, that's progressive. call or click today.

tonight on "red eye." >> coming up on "red eye" a woman who can write with both hands and feet at the same time. is she a total freak or have the rest of us been under achieving for the last 5,000 years? plus, how many times sips they took office has president obama said to joe biden, great job today, joe. >> none, zero. i'm serious. it's true. and finally, are goldfish the world's sexiest underwater creature? the debate you won't see anywhere else. none of these stories on "red eye" tonight. >> and now let's welcome our guest. she puts the