i'll see you back here at 10:00 p.m. >> what? you're working again? >> and then she'll be on "fox & friends" tomorrow morning. [ laughter ] good evening everyone. i'm megyn kelly. welcome to our "kelly file" special on bill ayers. a man who admits to bombing this country repeatedly. and he got away scot free. because this is america, he wound up as a college professor who even helped a president launch his political career. over the years mr. ayers managed to redefine himself, not as a domestic terrorist but as a revolutionary, a kid who merely vandalized, not one who inspired murder. he is a man who took chances with other people's lives and took every chance to dodge the

tough questions until one day he agreed to come to fox news and sit down with yours truly. >> barack obama and domestic terrorist bill ayers, friends. they've worked together for years. but obama tries to hide it, why? >> he was one of the most controversial figures of barack obama's 2008 presidential campaign. >> our opponent is someone who sees america as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country. >> the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago when i was 8 years old somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense to me. >> a man everyone wanted to talk to but whose silence was deafening. what's your relationship with

barack obama? mr. ayers? bill ayers, friend of the man who would-be president a an unrepentant terrorist whose group bombed america over and over again. >> let's remember that what you call a violent past, that was at a time when thousands of people were being murdered by our government every month. and those of us who fought to end that war were actually on the right side. >> the son of a prominent illinois businessman, ayers came of age in the 1960s. drawn to the civil disobedience of the day and deeply offended by the vietnam war. >> we will build a revolutionary youth when we are capable of actively engaging in a war with the imperialist. >> reporter: in 1965 at age 20 he joined the left wing students for a democratic society, or sds. in late '69 they held protests in chicago. full of rage about the war, race

relations and the wealthy. they ravaged the city's business district, six people were shot and dozens more arrested. later that year a seminole moment, black panther leader fred hampton shot and killed by police. out of that the group the weathermen were born. a radical spin-off of sds. its mission, the violent overthrow of the u.s. government. shortly thereafter a san francisco police station is bombed and an officer killed. police later say the weathermen did it. next comes the bombing of a new york judge's home. the group then plots to bomb a military dance, but their explosives go off too soon destroying a new york city townhouse. found buried in the rubble 60 sticks of dynamite. the fbi concludes had the explosives detonated, they would have leveled everything on both sides of the street. three members of the weathermen

are killed in that blast including ayers' girlfriend, identified by a single remaining finger. the weathermen go into hiding and change their name to the weather underground. still, the attacks continue. >> now we're everywhere. and next week families and tribes will attack the enemy around the country. we are not just attacking targets. we are bringing a pitiful helpless giant to its knees. >> reporter: soon the group takes credit for more bombings. ayers believed to be personally involved in at least three of them. new york city police headquarters in 1970, the bombing of the u.s. capital in '71, the bombing of the pentagon in 1972. around this time ayers falls in love with fellow weatherman leader bernadine dohrn. in 1973 the u.s. involvement in vietnam is ending. but ayers and dohrn don't surrender until 1980.

they only resurfaced because they learned the most serious charges had been dropped due to government misconduct in the investigation. an incredible stroke of luck for the pair. within a year their former weathermen comrades were at it again. this time robbing a brinks truck in a crime that left three people dead. ayers and dohrn settle in chicago, enter academia and later go onto befriend barack obama, hosting a fundraiser for the then-illinois senate candidate. when their friend becomes a presidential candidate, ayers stays mostly quiet but emerges soon after the election sounding far from remorseful. >> i've been quoted again and again as saying i don't regret it, and frankly and saying i don't think we did enough, and i don't think we did enough. >> reporter: and now for the first time ever bill ayers walks into the fox news headquarters to face tough questions about his past and his future. >> so we have to talk about you

and your domestic terrorist past. let's start with this. how many bombings are you responsible for? >> weather underground i think took credit for just slightly over 20 in a period when there were 20,000 bombings in the united states against the war. >> and how about you personally? >> me personally i've never talked about it, never will. >> okay. you could have hurt some people. >> absolutely. >> you acknowledge that. >> absolutely. >> you claim you never did, but you acknowledge the risks. >> oh, there was a terrible risk. and we actually did hurt, three of our own people died in the townhouse in the city. that was an incalculable, horrible, devastating loss. it's a tragedy personally to us and to me, but, yeah. >> we'll get to that in a minute. that was a nail bomb they were putting together. the weather underground began in 1969 with protests. it was over the -- >> 1970. >> okay. over the vietnam war. but it became more and more militant as the years pass, the

early '70s. in 1970 you declare a state of war and urge your comrades as you call them to be more violent. >> there's no way to be committed to nonviolence in the middle of the most violent society the history's ever created. i'm not committed to nonviolence in any way. >> why was more violence the answer? >> i wouldn't argue that more violence was the answer, but i do think -- >> those are your people. >> what she said is i'm not committed to nonviolence. >> but you were upping the violent rhetoric as well. >> there's no question our rhetoric outstripped a lot of what was going on. there's no question. but here was the reality, i was arrested for opposing the vietnam war in 1965. over the next three years -- five years, i was arrested many times in demonstrations and notice of actions, sitting in draft boards, all of it nonviolent all in an attempt to bring a screaming warning that we were killing 6,000 people a week. and when the war dragged on after 1968 when a majority of people come to oppose the war,

largely through the efforts of people like martin luther king, the black freedom movement, vets coming home and telling the truth and the antiwar movement. those things came together and a majority opposed the war. then the question was how do we stop it if it won't stop? and this was a crisis for democracy and a crisis of the antiwar movement. in my own family one of my own brothers went to canada, deserted the army. and i think he's a war hero for doing that. one of my brother went to the communes. one joined the democratic party. and i did what i did. >> you think bowe bergdahl is a hero too? >> if he deserted, i think that was heroic. nobody knows if he did or didn't, but i did blog about that because i think throughout history we should build monuments to the unknown deserters, the people who look at the craziness that they're asked to participate in and say i'm not part of this. >> i hear you now explaining, those sound bites from bernadine

dohrn -- but to put it in context as they and your group are calling for more violence, what we saw in february of 1970, february 16th, was san francisco police officer bryan mcdonald, a 44-year-old father of two and husband was killed when a bomb went off in his police station and eight other police officers were injured in that blast. now your wife, bernadine dohrn deny being in that. do you deny it? >> absolutely. >> let me just tell them how it does and i'll give you the floor. larry grat walt claimed that you visited him in buffalo in 1970 and complained that bernadine dohrn had to do it herself because others "weren't active enough in committing violence." and the san francisco police union recently accused the weather underground of this murder. >> complete lies. larry was never in the weather underground. >> sds was the precursor. >> yes, a student movement.

no, larry was lying and the police union doesn't know what they're talking about. >> bernadine dohrn was not a fan of the police and referred to them typically as pigs. >> that was again inflated rhetoric at the time. yes, the black panthers did that, we did that, yes. >> i mean, that sort of rhetoric is sort of what catches people's attention when she's calling them pigs and celebrating bad things happening to the police at the same time one gets murdered and then you allegedly went and told larry she did it. >> never happened. but look, it's true that the rhetoric was inflated. it's also true -- you take a situation like chicago today, the police are a violent out of control enterprise in chicago today. the shooting of unarmed people. again and again. the stopping of people in the street. the endless arrests. >> do you refer to them as pigs today? >> no, i don't. >> does bernadine? >> no, not really. we hang out at the coffee shop and talk to them. but when you disagree, when you

look at the chicago police department and been involved in torture which has freed people off death row in the last five years because of a systematic, you know, practice of torture and forced confessions and so on. and these police officers are everyone one of them isn't guilty, but every one is part of the conspiracy of silence. absolutely. >> five days after that san francisco bombing that took the life of officer brian mcdonald, the weather underground bombed john murtagh's home. >> that's not true. >> it's not true? >> no. >> judge murtagh was a trial court judge in new york state hearing a case involving the panther 21. and your group objected to the way he was handling that case. and you came out -- >> we were supporting the panther 21. there's no question. >> that's right. and his home got fire bombed in the middle of the night. he had a 9-year-old little boy in there who's been public about talking. in your book you wrote, i say as follows, i'm quoting, two weeks before the townhouse explosion -- which is a

different bomb, four members of this group had fire bombed judge murtagh's house in new york as an action of support for panther 21. within that group the feeling developed because this action had not done anything to hurt the pigs materially it wasn't very important. >> i didn't write that. >> it's in your book. >> which book? >> it's your book with bernadine. >> what book? >> it's your communique. it's your wife. >> no, i'm quite sure. >> it's your wife. not only that a former weather underground member kathy wilkinson further offered her own rusation of what happened and she claimed the weather underground while in it perpetrated that crime. >> she wasn't telling the truth either? >> i don't think so. >> john murtagh also believes you, the weather underground, perpetrated that time. and he's been on fox news a few times. he said the following when i was

hosting. you were a 9-year-old little boy asleep in your bed and what happens? >> early in the morning on washington's birthday four bombs went off. two in the front of the house -- two in the front that went off. there were bombs placed under the gas tank of our car in the back of the house. the first two went off. the notion that bill ayers and the weather underground were about property damage, to make it sound like they were egging cars on saturday night is absurd. every one of them have blood dripping from their hands. >> not true. it was always property damage. in our activities. always. and so it's just not true. >> do you deny that terri robbins was responsible for that bombing? you two were very close? >> we were very close. he's gone, so we don't know. >> he's one of the guys who blew himself up. >> that's exactly right. but one of the things i think is interesting about these activities of 40 years ago, i don't think it's bad to kind of

stir through them and try to understand them. >> you've written about them extensively. >> i've written about them myself. i don't think there's anything wrong with that, but i think it would be fair and also look at the violence that was and is going on perpetrated by the government, by the official agencies and organs of the government. >> let me tell you what i hear when i hear that. i hear you saying you sound like, with respect, osama bin laden. >> what? >> in order to evaluate my actions which have hurt a lot of people -- i know you deny it, but there's evidence that the weather underground was involved -- >> but when john murtagh says there's blood on your hands, what blood is he talking about? is he talking about his father? >> he was talking about the police officer. >> we had nothing to do with the san francisco -- >> that's what you claim. but there of course is evidence to the contrary. >> if there's evidence to the contrary, why isn't somebody put on trial? >> he's talking about the armored car incident -- >> we were already aboveground. >> we'll get to that in a minute. but there is evidence of it.

and there was a former member of the weather underground who came out and said this is murder. what you guys got to the point where you considered murder. and you acknowledge that yourself. it got to the point where this property damage wasn't good enough for you. still ahead, ayers reacts to evidence that the weather underground went way beyond vandalism including accusations from former members of his own group. watch how that goes next. chico's leggings. every style's a showstopper! with fabrics that flatter and prints to go wild for. legs look longer, you look leaner. any way you wear them. chico's leggings. we're famous for our legs. at chico's and chicos.com. [music]♪ defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old.

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and there are no networks. you do your push-ups today? prepare to be amazed. [ male announcer ] don't wait. call today to request your free decision guide and find the aarp medicare supplement plan to go the distance with you. go long. back now to my exclusive interview with bill ayers, the man behind one of the most violent radical groups of the 1970s. and his reaction to the evidence that despite his claims his group went way beyond vandalism. you guys got to the point where you considered murder. and you acknowledge that yourself. it got to the point where this property damage wasn't good enough for you. and you decided a mass murder planning to bomb a military dance. >> terry had decided it needed to go further. and thank goodness it didn't. >> but you understand,

professor, that what began for your group as outrage over mass killings then turned into a plan to kill hundreds of americans. did you not see the moral high ground? >> oh, absolutely. that was true for a few people. and it's one of the things we split on. so i write about it extensively in "fugitive days." you should read it. it's an extensive explanation. and i don't defend it. >> as i hear you sitting you don't sound remorseful. >> you want me to be remorseful for something i didn't do rather than for the things i did do. >> this is your group, professor ayers. >> no, that's not true. >> yes, it is. this is the weather underground that was going to bomb military officers. >> and we criticized it then and now. and we said it's wrong. it was wrong. it is wrong. >> professor, the only reason it didn't happen -- >> it didn't happen, exactly. >> -- because a bomb blew up on those who were making it. and when it blew up your girlfriend, diana autoon was killed. and you later described her death as valiant. >> i later described imaginary -- nobody knows what

happened, but what i imagined in "fugitive days" is her trying to stop that horrendous event from taking place. so that's how i described it. i don't say that she was valiant. i don't say that. >> you describe her death as valiant. >> no, i talk about her trying to stop what would have been a horrendous thing. >> that's your imagination. how do you know she was against that bomb? >> i don't know. that's exactly right. no one knows. you don't know. john murtagh doesn't know. somehow this is the idea of moral equivalent of 6,000 people a week being killed strikes me as nuts. we were destroying property and in the course of discussion some people thought we should go much further. but we didn't. >> your critics say when you make that argument you sound like adolf hitler. >> you want to talk about who's in that grand tradition of destroying thousands, millions of people? it's the american war in vietnam where john mccain was in fact dropping bombs from the air on civilians. and he did it consistently -- >> and when the weather underground went into a

townhouse and put together a bomb with nails in it -- >> terrible thing. >> and allegedly -- i mean, allegedly killed a police officer -- >> terrible thing. >> -- and bombs the home of john murtagh, a federal judge with a 9-year-old boy in bed. >> didn't kill a police officer. >> you deny it but there's evidence to the contrary. >> if there's evidence to the contrary, why isn't somebody on trial? >> doesn't mean they can prove it without a reasonable dd. >> it's frankly not true. and john murtagh, that also is not true, he has his opinion, but nobody was hurt or killed. the townhouse as i said was a terrible, terrible deviation. >> a communique that was issued by the weather underground claims credit for the murtagh home bombing. >> meanwhile, 6,000 people a week are being murdered. >> you made that point. back to the ends justify the means. >> is that not the slippery slope towards hitler -- >> the end doesn't justify the means. >> no, unless you say the united states is saying the ends justify the means, which they

often do say. >> you got to a point where the group had to go underground. >> we decided to go underground. we didn't have to. >> while underground you stole. you lied. you hid, right? >> we did, that's right. >> any disagreement? you stole? >> onwards, yes. >> you wrote about it in your book. >> we stole ids. >> purses, wallets, money. >> some. >> you ripped off dead babies identities. >> right. >> and yet the violence continued just because you went underground doesn't mean the violence stopped. >> what violence? >> june, 1970, you bomb the new york city police headquarters. march 1st 1971 you bomb the u.s. capital. may 19, 1972 you bombed the pentagon. january 29, 1975 you bombed the state department. that's what i mean by violent. >> that's actually destruction of property. you can call it violence, but to equate it to the murder of human beings is nonsense. >> you realize people could have

been hurt. >> i said people could have been hurt and thank god they weren't. and we made every attempt not to. >> but do you appreciate the recklessness of that? who are you to potentially endanger the lives of those individuals who may be in or around this building? >> i don't say it wasn't reckless or illegal. it was illegal. we talk lines of legality -- >> you could have murdered somebody with those bombs. >> and we didn't. but actually the people who were conducting the war in vietnam did actually murder people. >> so the answer is to then make yourself a murderer as well? >> the ends communism, does the end justify those means? >> you account for your own. >> i will and you account for your reporting. >> this is all from your book, sir. >> yeah, i know. but you talk about lies, nothing's more clear than the systematic lying of the american government to get us into war after war after war. >> you keep dodging. >> i'm not dodging. i'm pointing to the real criminal.

>> not taking accountability. >> i've said it again and again, i've said it in print what i'm responsible for and not responsible for. but it's hard to get me to admit that i'm responsible for something i didn't do. you keep saying -- >> you did these bombings. you admitted the weather underground did 20 bombings. that's your group. >> and i would not apologize for destroying property in defense of stopping 6,000 people. >> and as soon as it crosses over to somebody being injured you deny it. >> no, i think that would have been a real problem. >> next, what happened when ayers and his wife, bernadine dohrn resurface and their plan to defeat the american empire. a. you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then... wham! a minivan t-bones you. guess what: your insurance company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it. "depreciation" they claim. "how can my car depreciate before it's first oil change?" you ask.

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other serious stomach conditions may exist. avoid if you take clopidogrel. nexium 40 mg is only available by prescription. talk to your doctor. for free home delivery, enroll in nexium direct today. welcome back to our "kelly file" special. bill ayers, the founder of the radical weather underground admits that his group bombed 20 targets including the pentagon, the u.s. capital and the state department. all he says to protest the vietnam war and other left wing causes of the '70s. afraid to face the consequences of their actions, ayers and dohrn went underground in 1970 and didn't resurface for ten years. in 1980 you and bernadine dohrn resurfaced. and when she turned herself in

bernadine dohrn to defeat the american empire. >> food for her. >> you say -- but your comrades did not get the let's be more peaceful. i say this because kathy will kerson, a member of the weather underground, correct? >> she was with us understood ground but -- >> right. she wrote after the fact, and i quote, the process by which weather leaders change from the language of glorifying violence in january 1970 to moderation was invisible to almost all weather members. certainly the assumption of most was to build a clandestine fighting force was full steam ahead. if ayers says things were different in the west, most participants did not know this. what did you do to communicate to the people in your group no more violence? >> i don't agree with kathy. so i don't know what to say about it. we were a loose organization. we were not a disciplined organization. but we changed dramatically in 1970 there's no question. >> but you take responsibility -- i read the

communique, which said you bombed the murtagh house. >> well, there are many communiques. including after the townhouse, explaining the -- >> not the townhouse. it said you bombed the murtaghs. >> yeah. >> do you take responsibility for riling people up with your incendiary rhetoric and then setting them upon the american public with a commitment to violence? >> no, no, no. we did not set ourselves upon the american public. where did we set ourselves upon the american public? >> you were calling for more violence. you were riling your people up. kathy will kerson's talking about if there was to get more peaceful, it was not communicated to the troops. you were the leadership. >> no, the people who riled up the response that they got over the five years in the early 1970s was the government itself riling us up to a genocidal murder. >> it wasn't bill ayers? >> no, i absolutely thought we should do more, we should be more effective. >> and that meant more violence. >> it didn't always mean more

violence. >> but it did sometimes. >> no. you're using violence in a conflated way. >> you want these 20-year-olds to understand your nuance principles of i meant militancy, i didn't mean -- and i want to bomb property, but i don't want to kill people. and i can trust all these people to follow my edicts. >> throughout the left at that time the catholic let, bareagains, people were destroying property. >> once again you go to somebody else. >> we should have destroyed more property. >> i'm talking to you about you. >> i know. >> when other people do bad things, we hold them accountable. today i have you at the table. >> and i'm saying we should have done more to stop that genocidal war. and that included destroying more property. absolutely. >> so your argument in response to my question is about what you did to tamp down the violence was we should have done more to amp it up? >> we should have done more to just stop the war. and that means being more effective on every level including destroying more draft boards, destroying more draft files, hammering on nuclear

warheads. we did all of that. >> i feel the audience now has a feeling for where you are at this point in your mind. but this is when you resurfaced from being underground. and within a year of that, october 20th, 1981, was a triple homicide. david gilbert of the weather underground, kathy bodine and judy, partner with the black liberation army, they killed two cops, along with a security guard named peter page. you were very close with gilbert and bodine. >> still am. >> i know it. kathy bodine learned some of her very criminal tactics while she was with weather underground. she was in the townhouse that exploded when that bomb went off. >> that's true. >> wasn't she? you adopted her child because she and her husband were going to jail. he's still in jail for a life sentence. >> biological father. >> there's no question she did it. she pled guilty. >> absolutely. and she paid the price for that. and it was a terrible, dreadful, miscalibrated horrible action.

and they paid the price. >> so you don't see her as valiant too? >> i don't think what they did is valiant. she's a wonderful person -- >> and you don't think what they did had anything to do with what they learned or heard while in the weather underground? >> absolutely not. it was a different time and different moment. >> another thing you had nothing to do with. >> absolutely not. but we did have to do with adopting their son and raising him to the wonderful person he is today. that was part of what we did, yeah. >> and your wife, bernadine dohrn was asked to cooperate in that investigation. >> that's right. >> she refused sfwl absolutely. she spent seven months in jail because she refused to help the police. >> she refused to speak to a grand jury. that's quite different. >> why would she do that? >> because the grand jury is a star chamber that takes you behind closed doors without the benefit of a lawyer and asks you to speak to -- >> what does she have to hide? >> -- u.s. attorney. if they pulled you in and said, megyn, we're going to talk to you about a bunch of stuff, bill o'reilly mainly, if you don't have anything to hide, you'd say

no way. >> i'd say two cops are dead and so is a security guard and i will help the government put whoever did it behind bars. >> no. >> yes, i would, sir. >> that's not what they said. they said we're not going to show you the evidence or ask you if you're a target, we're going to ask you a bunch of questions. >> professor, nine children lost their father that day. >> i agree with you. >> why didn't your help? >> i agree with you. i think it was a terrible, terrible crime. so that's not what we're disagreeing about. grand juries are a terrible overreach of the u.s. government. terrible. and they should be resisted. and everybody who thinks about it has resisted them. they were used against monica lewinsky, you know, against many, many people. >> they're part of our government. >> and should be resisted. >> the question is your wife seemed perfectly fine with murder she said about the charles manson murders of a pregnant woman and six others. >> this is not true. >> "offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives and eating a meal in the same room, far out. the weather men dig charles

manson." this is your sweetheart? this is your soulmate? >> this is nonsense. and this is something again that gets recirculated. >> you deny she said it? >> absolutely. what she said is american culture is so obsessed with the craziness, and it still goes on today. >> that's not how the "new york times" reported it. the "new york times" reported it exactly as i read it. do they lie too? >> don't they lie -- >> a long list of people who have told terrible lies about the weather underground. >> i'm completely candid about the weather understood ground. you can read it in any of my books. it's not true -- you certainly don't believe that the "new york times" gets things right every time. >> even kathy admitted that bernadine dohrn made this speech art charles manson and how much the weather underground dig him. >> that's just not true. what she said was here we are in a genocidal war, here we are murdering black panthers, and what is the news media focused on? this crazy guy who, you know,

stuck a fork in somebody and she was mocking it. and it was recorded as if she were supporting it. she doesn't support it. it doesn't matter. it's an endless echo chamber that you help perpetuate. >> is it true that the weather underground had a serious discussion before it went underground about whether they should kill all white babies -- >> no. >> as a university of arizona professor claims. here he is. >> i remember going to the last aboveground weather -- it was the weathermen. there was a weather underground, the last aboveground convention. and sitting in a room and the question that was debated was was it -- was it or was it not duty of every good revolutionary to kill all newborn white babies? >> because they would ultimately join the revolution. >> it's absolutely nuts. there's no truth to it. and so it's hard to kind of have a conversation with you -- >> i'm just asking.

i don't know whether that man's telling the truth or not. >> no truth to it. >> okay. when you became a parent, did it soften you at all to the reality of what you had done, potentially endangering other people's parents and children? >> it was the best thing that ever happened to me becoming a parent. soften me, i don't know what that means. but, you know, it's the best thing i've ever done is to raise three remarkable young men. >> so the big question still, how close was ayers to barack obama? have they spoken since mr. obama became president and bill ayers was in the headlines? and would bill ayers bomb america today? that's next. in the nation, it's not always pretty. add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance...

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ultimately help launch the career of our current president. ultimately you wound up in chicago. you got a job teaching with the university of illinois. do you see any irony in accepting a government paycheck and winding up where you did? >> absolutely not. where's the irony? >> the life opposing the government regime, wanting to throw down the government as you put it. >> well, look, we all live in the actual world. even the things we're critical of, this is the world we live in. should i not make a living? i mean, i'm asking you, seriously? >> no, it's fine. >> thank you. >> but your wife miraculously got a job teaching at northwestern university law school. >> successfully. >> they must be offering classes in what you can learn from your future clients. but are you surprised that you got those job offers, you and she? >> not really. >> she was on the fbi's ten most wanted list. >> i know. so was angela davis. you know, a lot of great people have been on that list. but angela davis is also a professor. no, the thing is i got my doctorate when i was 43 years

old. i interviewed at several universities. the best offer i got was the university of illinois. i took it. we moved to chicago with our three kids. she started a center for children and families. and eventually northwestern law school wanted her to be a part of that. >> and kathy bodine wound up there as well. many members of the weather underground are now in academia. how much ideology did the two of you share? >> zero. >> good friends, not good friends? >> i knew him as well as he knew 10,000 other people. today i wish i knew him much better and i wish he'd listen to me. >> did he ever contact you once you became the story in his presidential race? >> absolutely not. and i didn't contact him. >> the entire time he's been president you haven't been in contact with him? >> no. although i wish i were because i have a lot of advice for him. >> you want him to go further to the left? >> oh, i want him to stop droning people. i want him to stop -- i want him to close guantanamo. you know, universe al health care. don't you think we desesh universal health care? seriously. medicare for all. >> you say in your book you

can't quite imagine putting a bomb in a building today but you can't imagine entirely dismissing that possibility either. what would it take to make you think of bombing this country again? >> well, you're taking that sentence in a funny way. but what i'm saying is it seems so long ago. what i'm saying in that passage is it seems so long ago and so far away. like another world. on the other hand as violent and nuts as we can be as a country, i can't completely say no, i would never, ever rise up in opposition in a very militant and serious way. i can't say i wouldn't. i doubt it. i'm 70 years old. so it's unlikely. but i think that i wanted to say there exactly what bernadine said on tape, no, i'm not committed to nonviolence as an ideology. and frankly neither are you. because we live in the most violent society around. and we commit war crimes day in and day out. and often as a matter of policy. and yet that seems perfectly fine with you. >> bill ayers, thank you for being here. >> thank you.

up next, the final part of my exclusive sit-down with bill ayers as the professor and conservative filmmaker debate exceptionalism. american exceptionalism. when i had my first migraine, i was lucky. that sounds crazy, i know. but my mom got migraines, so she knew this would help. excedrin migraine starts to relieve my pain in 30 minutes. plus, sensitivity to light and sound, even nausea. excedrin migraine works.

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well, we met bill ayers when he agreed to join filmmaker right here on our set for a special about the new film "america." that may have been the most interesting part of our exchange as it turns out. here is part of their debate on american exceptionalism. why do you think it is so few liberals say they're proud to be american? >> i have no idea. >> are you? >> i'm not a liberal if that's what you mean. >> are you proud to be an american? >> i'm not proud to be an american. and i don't buy the american exceptionalism at all. the reason i'm not proud to be an american is because of the damage we do around the world is so serious and so ongoing. so if you look anywhere in the world, look all through latin america, ordinary people on the street admire cuba for one reason. they stood up to america. they stood up to kind of imperial advances. >> we stood up to some people too, germany. >> i understand. that was also at our best. >> so why do you go right to the

bad? why don't you think about the good when you think about what america is? >> i do often think about the good. but i wouldn't call myself an american exceptionist and i would challenge that in anybody because i'm a human being. i believe we should be struggling with the question what does it mean to be human in the 21st century? what is it that's required of us? we are all human. we're -- america's 5% of the world's population. we should be part -- we should think of ourselves as a people among people. not as an exceptional people, because as soon as you say american exceptionalism, then you say actions that are done by us versus other people are different depending -- >> okay. not an unusual attitude. >> exceptionalism doesn't mean a different moral standard applies. by and large foreigners who come to america going all the way back to tokeville, i've grown up in a different culture, i know america's exceptional because i've seen things in america that you wouldn't see anywhere else in the world. right now if you took the power

america has in the world, sole super power, and gaf it to russia or china, they would use it far more expansively, brutally and more to gain themselves. america is benign in the way it exercises its power. the american idea of wealth creation is being embraced in india, in china, all over the world. it's lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. so ironically this american formula that we are moving away from at home under obama is being enthusiastically embraced all around the world. >> we're benign in iraq, for example. you say we use our power b eer benevolently? >> okay. we went into afghanistan because the taliban supplied monkey bars to the guys from 9/11 who attacked us directly. >> why didn't we go get the guys who attacked us directly instead of overthrow -- >> because the moment -- >> which is incidentally the entire history of the last 50 years of american foreign policy is we go in under the guise of being beneficent and benign and

we go in under the lies of one president after another. and then we get booted out. and what do we do? we blame the brown guy. so it's al maliki -- and i hope al maliki's read history of vietnam and read what happens to -- >> do you think we're blaming al maliki for the mess in iraq because he's brown? >> i think we always blame our clients. that's what i'm saying. >> that's a generalization. do you think we're blaming al maliki for the mess in iraq because he's brown? i blame our clients and our clients happen to be brown. i hope al maliki's read about vietnam. diem got a bullet in the head from kennedy because he failed in vietnam. we didn't fail. we were perfect. and the same is true -- >> america has made mistakes. made mistakes in vietnam, the iraq war dr hold on a minute. in retrospect the iraq war was a mistake. there's a difference between making a mistake and doing something inherently wicked. anyone else who went into iraq and did this would have reimbursed itself by taking the

iraqi oil. instead we've spent this money in iraq and turn over the keys of the oil fields to the iraqis say use it, sell it, burn it, iraq costs us money. imperialists go across to take money. >> no, iraq is just using it the way it sees fit and shell has nothing to do with it and mobil has nothing to do with it. you're dreaming. >> on the balance made money or lost money in iraq? >> unbalanced. >> thank you. >> people like halliburton made gazillions of money. >> america unbalanced lost. >> okay. let me ask you this. at the end of the cold war all of eastern europe is free, russia now no longer has a communist government, are all those countries better off or worse off because we won the cold war? >> i don't think we won the cold war. i think you're dreaming about that. >> was it a good thing? >> well, i think the end of authoritarian government is always a good thing. but i also think that this

notion that somehow we go out in our beneficence, spend a trillion dollars a year on military budgets, have 150 military bases circling the globe, those are not for beneficent purposes. >> for the rest of that debate go to facebook.com/thekellyfile. like the page, leave a comment to tell us what you think. and we will be right back. [ female announcer ] we help make secure financial tomorrows a reality for over 19 million people. [ alex ] transamerica helped provide a lifetime of retirement income. so i can focus on what matters most. [ female announcer ] everyone has a moment when tomorrow becomes real. transamerica. every style's a showstopper! with fabrics that flatter and prints to go wild for.

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thanks for watching everybody. i'm megyn kelly and this is "the kelly file" special on weather und underground co-founder bill ayers. this is a fox news alert. major developments today in the shooting death of michael brown in ferguson, missouri. welcome to "hannity." i'm andrea tanteros in for sean tonight. earlier the ferguson police chief identified the officer involved. watch. >> the officer that was involved in the shooting of michael brown was darren wilson. he's been a police officer for six years, has had no disciplinary action taken against him. he was treated for injuries which occurred on saturday. >> but that's not all. the police department also released surveillance footage taken just minutes before michael brown was shot and killed showing the teen allegedly stealing cigars from