>> we have too many laws. >> let's get rid of some. that's our show tonight.

>> don't you hate those lawyers who defend nasty criminals? i do. when i see them help murderers get away with it. at least i think they were murderers. casey anthony? o. j. simpson, didn't he stab his wife to death? but they were acquitted, thanks to a good lawyer. defense lawyers even say it's not my job to determine if the person is guilty or innocent. every american deserves a defense. so they fight hard for some horrible people. child molesters, muggers, rapists. how can they live with themselves? here is one of those despicable people, norman reamer. he's head of the association of criminal defense lawyers. how can you live with yourself? >> i've been a criminal defense lawyer my entire life. my entire career. and proud of it. the founders of this country had a brilliant idea, the idea that when somebody is accused of a crime, when the state marshals

the most awesome power they have short of warfare, the power to prosecute, condemn, imprison, kill and certainly to stigma advertise for life, that person should never stand alone. they should have a defense lawyer to stand with them. >> when you see the o. j. simpson verdict and the casey anthony verdict, you're comfortable with all that. >> i'm comfortable with the idea that everybody deserves somebody to put the government to the test of whether or not they can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. we have a much bigger problem in this country with wrongful conviction than wrongful acquittal. >> too many laws, too many people in jail. we'll get to that. but let me do one more example. early in her career, hillary clinton was a defense lawyer and the washington free beacon recently discovered a recording of her laughing, bragging that she got a reduced sentence for a man accused of raping a

12-year-old girl. >> got him off. >> yet she apparently thought the guy was guilty because she laughs about his passing a polygraph. so yuck, yuck, yuck. shouldn't she be ashamed of that? >> there is nothing to be ashamed of in representing someone. whether or not it's appropriate to be laughing -- and i don't know what the context of that was. i haven't seen the whole interview. i don't know whether that was a nervous laugh. i'm not here to defend hillary clinton. she was a defense lawyer, if she was for about five minutes. i've been a defense lawyer for 30 years. and i will proudly stand, frankly, with a person who is innocent or guilty because even the guilty deserve to have somebody advocate for them to prevent the lowest moment in their life from necessarily defining the rest of their lives. >> and to broaden it beyond criminal defense lawyers, all

lawyers, you notice in the surveys of which professions contribute to society's well-being, lawyers are at the bottom. >> i can tell you this, when somebody is in trouble and in this country, we are arresting 14 million people a year. they need to have somebody with them. >> and i should point out that journalists come quite close to the bottom of that list, too. >> we have to live with those caricatures. that's reality. >> despite our hostile beginning, i invited norman on this show because he makes good points. it's natural when something bad happens to want government to do something to stop it. and many people say the obvious thing to do is pass a law and politicians do it all the time. they pass more every year. and now america has so many criminal laws, government can't even count how many there are. we are buried in law. and that's one reason i wrote "no they can't." politicians say they can solve all our problems with laws, but

no. they can't. so norman, that's the criminal code. explain -- >> you make excellent points obviously. first of all -- >> obviously. >> just to give you -- put perspective on it, because numbers paint the picture. in 1900 we had about 100 federal criminal provisions. today we have almost 5,000. and if you count the criminal provisions that are buried in the regulations, it's more than 300,000 and as you say, they haven't even been able to count them. 2.1 million is the number of people who are imprisoned in this country as we sit here tonight. we are the number one incarcerator in the world in terms of per capita and actual numbers. and that is despicable. >> where is china? more than russia? >> more than any country we know of except for north korea because we don't know. it's shameful and it's costing us a fortune.

there are very few people left in this country that don't have a loved one, a neighbor, a co-worker, a friend who has had some brush with the criminal law. we now have between 65 and 70 million people in this country with criminal records. >> the biggest crime, driving without a license. >> absolutely. and most of those people are not being charged with driving without a license, for any other reason as a regulatory matter. they didn't pay child support. they didn't pay traffic fines. but those are criminal offenses -- >> they broke the law. >> sure. so because of that, we're going to impede their opportunity for the rest of their lives. the other thing we have to do is stop using the criminal law for every single thing. what we've done is we've used the -- >> i'm with you on that. the reason for the 2 million in jail is because people tried to alter their consciousness by using drugs. but people like bill o'reilly whose show is by far the most

popular, want tougher laws against people who buy and sell drugs. >> i don't care whether you're addicted or not and i don't care whether you have seven pills. these lead to death. all right? that's provable. and if you sell them, you are going to spend a lot of time in prison. if we have prison overcrowding issues all right. we'll build more prisons. >> what's wrong with that? >> it is a waste of human resources and it is an economic waste. >> maybe crime is down because we lock up so many people. >> there is no statistic that backs that up. in fact, in those states -- and texas, by the way, a red state, which has attacked its overincarceration problem, they reduced their prison population and at the same time, they reduced their crime. >> he's right about that. thank you, norman. it's a little depressing talking to him and thinking about people's lives being wrecked. let's lighten things up. let's talk about america's stupider laws like the emergency

susquatch ordinance. yes, it exists. after idiot politicians actually believed this video depicting a supposedly giant hairy ape, was real, they passed a law that makes it illegal for anyone to kill a susquatch. it's also the title of this man's book, he writes about that and other, useless laws that human beings have actually enacted. so how did we get the bigfoot law? >> well, there is two possible reasons. one is sasquatch protection and the other is -- the politicians aren't that dumb. >> well, in this case they may not have been. they may have been worried about people who are dumb because it was either or they want protection from people who did believe in sasquatch who might come up trying to hunt something

man shaped, which seems like a bad idea. >> you're right about the bird poop law. >> from 1856. still on the books. there was no artificial fertilizer at the time, so we needed more. turns out a great place to get fertilizeer is -- turns out bird poop makes a great fertilizer and the best place to get it is on island where is sea birds lived undisturbed for thousands of years. if you can imagine, some of those had deposits up to 50-meters deep. >> i'd rather not imagine it. okay. >> so they passed a law that said if you encounter one of these, you can claim it and it will effectively become part of the united states, at least temporarily, so that you can mind the dung. >> in connecticut. no person shall take any gray squirrel, rabbit or other fur bearing animal by the use of dynamite or other explosive compounds.

>> right. you thought caddy shack was fiction, but in fact it happens. you have a category, the government not minding its own business. >> yes. if you needed to get a ridiculous law and you need an example quickly, you should go to any state criminal code or the federal criminal code and look under the section on -- called offenses against decency and morals. you're guaranteed to find stuff in there that is completely ridiculous. >> in the criminal code, still on the books in georgia, idaho, lots of states, laws against fornication. >> right. >> so no one fornicates anymore. >> these laws are harmless, right, because they're not enforced. >> and are you confident that somebody is not going to use one of these laws just as harassment? >> no, i'm not confident. but there is one place where there is some hope that people are wising up. >> minnesota. >> what happened there? >> minnesota last year, the

governor had a program, he called it the unsession and they would go out and try to make lists of laws that were outdated or that they didn't need for some other reason like it was covered by federal law or something similar. and they managed to find over 1100 laws that they decided they really didn't need and they repealed all of them last time. >> 1100 laws gone? it's a start. thank you. >> minnesota's move was a good start. but i prefer the stossel rule, which is that for every law politicians passed, they have to repeal five old ones. thank you. unfortunately it hasn't happened yet, but we can dream. to keep that conversation going, use that hash tag buried in law. let us know what you think. coming up, the story of the rich guy living in this fancy apartment. this is his view.

he sued me and he just got put in jail. also not all lawyers are evil. there are the good guys who ride to the rescue. that's next write to the rest do and we have that coming on. ♪ ♪ just you...with the great facial hair. when gray creeps in do you lose it all? not you. new touch of gray mustache and beard reduces gray without getting rid of it all in just 5 minutes. for the perfect gray look you want. new touch of gray mustache and beard. when we're having this much fun, why quit?ughing} and bounty has no quit in it either. watch how one sheet of bounty keeps working. while their two sheets just quit.

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the government tried to take our home. >> the government wanted to bulldoze my home s could live on my land. >> what? i thought your home was your hom castle. but no, i'm wrong. in american today, government c just take your home and give it to somebody else. big government uses big law to do lots of things that seem to violate what's in the constitution.e w fortunately, a few lawyers will take your case for no fee if government steps on you and one is scott bullock of the institute for justice. i have to admit when i heardk o about your firm and seemed like a good libertarian getting together to fight bad laws with lawsuits, i said, areg you kidding me? the answer to anything can't be more lawsuits.

>> well, it can be because there is a vital need to have americans' rights protected, they're guaranteed in the constitution, and they have to be protected by an engaged court system, where judges actually police legislatures legislatured executive branch officials in order to reign them in, to make sure constitutional rights are protected ande limits oniona government power are respected. that's what the institute for justice is all about. >> it's relatively new group,tht but you've already had five cases before the supreme court? four victory. >> that's right. we've had a 70% track record ofh success in either striking down laws or shaming legislatures enough to try to repeal the laws after we've challenged them.pea >> the one you lost before the supreme court was the kila case about taking someone's home. >> eminent domain was for true

public use, like roads and bridges, not private development. >> they were going to take these people's home for a developer. the developer never showed up. they just took the homes down. >> now there is an empty fieldrt filled with feral cats and demolition debris. that was greatat example, thoug, of when you do public interest a law and you raise awareness of these issues, you not only are in the court of law, but the court of public opinion. as a result of that, the outrage that people felt about kilo, we've seen an enormous backlash against this decision.rmo over 40 state legislatures changed their laws. so a lot of good has come out of a very bad supreme court i decision. >> you have never eminent domait case in atlantic city, casino, ravel casino wants to tear down a home. >> you have to be vigilant in the fight for liberty becauseto governments are not going to try to stop violating liberty, soe you're starting to see eminent domain abuse come back like in atlantic city.ma but we're there to defend

mr. burnbalm and his effort to try to hold on to his home. >> the lawyers against you say we don't have to exact details of how we intend to use the land. it's redevelopment. the economican engine of the casinos is vital to the successf of the state.nos that's a public purpose. we have to expand it.t >> right. it's outrageous. all the casinos are goingf bankrupt. >> they'reti shrinking. >> they have no idea what they're going to do with the land. they just say, we want tohe take it now. we'll figure it out later on of the that's what they did in new london. they took sue kilo's home and now there is no new tax revenuen nothing to show for these takings of property. >> the lawsuits that his institute files that i think are most important are the suitss against laws that make it hard for the little guy to start a business. here are some of their clients. >> all i wanted was a chance to earn an honest living as a.

>> the government said i couldu not. >> the government calls us outlaws. >> what all these people have i common is they wantan to pursuen honest living, free ofan unreasonable government interference. but what you see too often are governments teaming up with large business interests in order to try to stop people fros starting a taxicab company or trying to pursue a lawful business occupation. the politicians often get contributions from the existing business. >> of course. it's a marriage of political power and private gain and pure economic protectionism which is not what the government should be doing. >> now there is a new one, animal massage? what's that about? >> typically equine massage. other animals can get it, but typically it's for horses. this is where athletes getses regular massages and horses also

benefit from having massages. >> arizona has a law saying you may not do this for money unless -- >> unless you become a licensedt vet, unless you spend hundreds of thousands of, go to years and years of school, simply for performing equine massage. guess what?o even if the people would gool to that school, they don't teach it in the vet schools themselves. all this is about is lining the pockets of the vets, keeping people out of doing a legitimate business that horse owners and apparently the horses like quitd a bit. >> and they do it with dogs and cats, too. scott, great that the institute makes these videos 'cause we like using them to explain what you do, but isn't this one a little too much? >> i thought to myself, how was i going to fight this? and then i got a call from ij. >> it was i.j. (they came riding in to save the day. ♪

♪ >> come on! >> our work that we do is very serious. but that doesn't mean we can't o have a little bit of fun and be happy lawyers doing it. >> thank you, scott bullock. coming up, an alternative to lawyers, a way to solve problems that's free. ♪ ♪ ♪ great rates for great rides. geico motorcycle,

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we bought stuff from you and had it checked out and it's counterfeit. >> nope. not from me. you wouldn't buy anything from me, never.ugh >> yeah. we bought it right here. >> you didn't buy anything from me. >> i was that young once. stossel the consumer reporter.. i spent years confronting liars and cheats and while it was goot to expose them, i was frustrated

because i couldn't punish the bad guys. so i was glad when lawyers got involved and sued the cheaters. that will make things better, i thought. but then i realized that often lawsuits do more harm than good. they take forever.h they cost a fortune and often the crook still got off. often the victim will tell me i just got ripped off by myat lawyer. the problem by solution byby lawsuit is not what it's cut out to be. so i'ml glad there is now a coos new alternative. it's a free t web site called change.org. its president isr jennifer dullsky. explain it.an >> so change.org, the world'ss, largest petition platform, we empower everyday people to create change on the causes they care about. we now have more than 70 millioh people using it and we winave victories an average of 20 a day. so almost one an hour now on every topic you can imagine. >> and yes, 70 million. how? how are you the biggest? all these other, angie's list,

yelp, what did you do that got 70 million? >> really the heart of what we do comes from people's personal stories. so people come on the site, the? talk about the things thats matter to them and what they're struggling with in their livesso and use our platform to mobilize people around them, share those petitions petitions and create dialogue with the people who have the power to change them and we see it working every day.o >> and on some of their victories. here are three.an >> our 18-year-old son, ryan,he was kicked out of boy scouts simply because he's gay. >> pennsylvania girl battling a deadly disease, she's in serious need of a lung transplant. >> boy scouts now admit openly gay scouts. >> her new lungs arrived. >> they kicked her off the team for being a girl. >> i just really wanted to playi and have other girls able to play. >> she was allowed to play. >> that's right.

so that's caroline, 11-year-old from pennsylvania. she was playing football her whole life and then when she was 11, they decided girls could no longer play. she started a petition on change.org and had hundreds of thousands of people sign it. she went on ellen's show and they decided, the archdiocese of philadelphia decided to let her play football and not just her, but every girl who wants to play from here on. >> it just caught on through change.org? >> that's right.l she shared it with her friends and family first and they share> it and from there, people arer mobilized. >> the girl needed a lung transplant and the law at the time said children cannot receive transplants from adults. >> that's right. 'cause children under 12 couldns only receive transplants from other children, even though their bodies are large enough ty take an adult lung. >> arbitrary cutoff. >> that's right. soso sarah's mom, she started a petition on change when sarahpei had only two weeks to live.e and she was able to mobilize people effectively and actuallyy

get a stay from a judge to agree to give sarah and one other boya lung transplants so they botho lived. now the law has actually been changed and children under 12 ad can be eligible for adult lungs. >> the boy scouts now will accept gays. but i don't think it was just because of you guys.v >> we saw 124 different 3 months signed1 by 1.8 million people. it wasn't just one petition ons our web site. it was many, many campaigns over time and millions of people fighting this battle. and us partnering with other organizations to make that happen. >> fox station in kansas city oh covered one of her successes. a boy built a little library and put it in his yard. >> get into reading and get to know your neighbors. >> the family came home from a trip to find this letter explaining the library violatesa an ordinance which doesn't allow structures in the front yard of

single family homes. >> which i think was put there to keep people from putting cara in their front yards. >> presumably. but another citizen who heard about this started ain petitionn his behalf and it took just 33 signatures for that petition tod convince the city to change the ordinance and let him keep thec lending library on his front lawn. >> you've gotten people out of jail. one, please grant ryan ferguson a new trial or freedom. 267,000 signatures. >> that's right. so ryan ferguson had been in prison for ten years for a crime he clearly didn't commit. both witnesses had said that 1 they recanted their testimony, that their testimony was not accurate and there was no other evidence against him. and so after over -- >> the lawyers were unmoved, they weren't going to touch it? >> the trial went through and so yeah, his father started a petition asking them to either grant him a new trial or to let him free and they decided first, yeah, that they would basically not -- they would not retry him

and they would let him free. then we had another one actually just yesterday, we helped a man mark a man from missouri who was in jail for 17 years for a crime he didn't commit. turns out the prosecutors had been falsifying the evidence against him and when that was -- >> lawyers do that. >> he was released.as yeah. >> thank you, jennifer. it's good to know we can doou, these things without lawyers. and coming up, our studio audience gets o award 1,000 bucks to the person who submits the stupidest lawyer-driven warning label. and here is one entry.d this decal meant to be stuck on a bicycle helmet says, warning, decal for decoration only.y will not prevent injuries. ur more coming up.

>> the annual whacky warning label contest, gives $1,000 to the person who submits thehe stupidest warning label.ts so who wins this year?e after reviewing lots of entries, bob has narrowed it down to five and he's agreed to let you, ouro studio audience, pick the worst. whoever submitted the label thaa you pick gets the 1,000 bucks. e bob, what are the finalists? >> all right. in a country where you can sue somebody if you catch your teety in a basketball net while dunk ago ball and walk away with

$50,000, anybody who makes a product is always looking forunk the next lawsuit.od here is why we see warning labels. football hell melt, orange, no helmet can protect you fromhe injuries. they're warning you not to use their product. >> number two. these decals, which, they're just decals and say on this thing, be careful. this decal will not prevent injuries. it's for bike helmets. who needst this? >> right. that's pretty obvious. >> and by thee way, we called te companies and the football>> b helmet, the company didn't respond on the bicycle helmet decals, they had no comment of the what's the third? >> this is on a little battery booster, cell phone battery? booster. this is a growing trend of mistranslated warnings. itit says, warning, get rid ofwe

children. >> that's a warrantyy[l manufacturer who struggles. >> number four here. on this printer toner, this is awful black stuff.th and it's deep inside thei printer. it says, do not drink. who would do that? >> one of my favorites, last here you have a little child's ride on toy, maybe for a two or three-year-old. it says do not push vehicle while child is sitting in it. well -- >> what do you do with the thing? >> right. >> this is disney, my old employer. they t didn't have any comment either. so which of these is the worst? in a moment we'll get to vote.wc which is the worst? the football helmet that says don't play football, the decal that says will not prevent injury, the battery charger that wants to get rid of children, the toner that says do not drink, or the push toy that saye

don't push the vehicle while a child is on it, when we return,s you vote and give out the prize money. these pajamas are really a hug.

this toy is a reminder that someone cares.

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now we're back with some of our guests to take your questions and comments about lawsuit abuse. first we'll pick the winner of the worst warning label. let's talk a little bit aboutwar why does this happen? this doesn't happen in otherlk countries. >> right. our intent is not to makees funf manufacturers who put these funny warning labels on their products. it's a realization that they feel a need to do that, otherwise they'll be sued overzi things that they should never be sued over. like we talk about the t basketball net lawsuit, or the guy who drilled his teeth with b wood router and sued the makerve of the wood router. >> why only init america? >> because we don't have a lose or pay system, that's a big part of it. so people feel like they can sua without any down side.em. >> that means if you lose, you have to pate other guy's legal bills. >> that's right. every other country that has a lose or pay system so that if you sue somebody in a frivolousy matter, you're going to pay

their legal bills, that's strong disincentive to sue.pa >> so we have all thesey labelsi and people don't read the ones you ought to read. >> right. for example, on a box of pms exa midolt says do not use if you have an enlarged prostate.yo >> seems silly. >> there might be a guy who has such a bad headache he might be willing to use his wife's midol. >> are you ready to vote on the worst here? you only get to pick one. raise your hand if the one you think is the stupidest. the football helmet that bob has that says no helmet can protects you from serious brain or neck injuries, including paralysis or death. to avoid these risks, do not engage in the sport of footballt who goes for that? bunch of you.that okay. number two, the decal that says this decal is for decoration only. will not i prevent injury.

fewer of you. number three, the battery charger, get rid of children. that's in first place so far. you're voting twice some of you. number four, i've got the ink toner that says do not drink. okay. nobody votes for that. and numbera five, the push toy, here it is. don't push the vehicle while a child is riding in it. who votes for that. t wow. i thought that was going to win. the winner is cell phone battery booster. he's going to give $1,000 -- >> we will send $1,000 to the f winner from california. >> second prize, football helmet, mark lendle of novi,

minnesota. >> that's 500 bucks. >> now your questions for some our other guests.s. who is first? yes, sir? >> my name is kenny. we know in this country there are lots of horrendous laws, but what can we as ordinary citizens do to try to fix it ourselves? >> we have become a society that looks to solve everything by passing a criminal law and at first blush, it's really themi politicians because any time something bad happens, it's easr to say, let's make another criminal law or let's make the penalties stiffer.ake but really it's us ast individuals. >> what can we do? >> we have to say to our do? politicians, don't give us more> criminal laws unless you can show what the impact is going to be. show us what benefit we're goine to get. i show us what the costs are going to be of w enforcing that. it's up to the people now to say enough. >> yes. >> i was wondering how many laws there are in america?

like overall. >> too many. >> nobody knows. they can't even counts the criminal law, right? >> that's right. >> yes, sir? >> hello. i'm nick richie fromm connecticut. my question is for scott in the middle. why are laws soo unclear? you have one lawyer tell you one thing and then another lawyer tell you something completely different. >> laws should try to be aser clear and simple as they som possibly can be. but -- if we stuck to simple rules and abided by the constitution as well, which is very long, even though it is such a great document, we would have a much freer society. >> yes, sir. >> this is for norman.: earlier we talked about hillaryd clinton getting a child rapist acquitted. couldn't she have or any defense lawyer, look at the evidence, say this guy is guilty. i'm not going to defend him, but instead, they choose to get this

person off on a technicality anh a rapist goes free? >> i don't know what the facts a of that case were. but what i know is this: every person, when they arekn confrond with a full force of the government, they are entitled to have somebody stand up for them and make sure that if the evidence is there and that it'se legal, thatre that's what is required in order to convict somebody. is there anybody here who hasn't done something wrong in theirth life? can anybody raise their handi ad say, i've never done -- of course not! no one can. so we have one saint and the rest of the others. look, this is about humanloo dignity. the idea of having representation for a person is about the dignity of the individual. >> thank coming up, my day in court. why it made me hate lawyers and their tricks. but it ends with good news. the bad guy is in jail.

i've sued and been sued. when people just cannot agree, sometimes there is no other option but going to court.imes that's why we have courts and. judges and lawyers and laws. but what the lawyers do with their power is often outrageous. they are so slow and expensive.

then they're mostly indifferent to the fact that they're slow and expensive. they say, that's just the way our system works. so i close tonight with one example from my life. >> john stossel, the fighting>> pain.or >> years ago i reported on a philadelphia dentist who i said was enriching himself atelph patients and insurance companies' expense by telling people you need treatment for an problem with your jaw. >> tell me about the clicking in your jaw. >> mainly when i eat. i hear click. >> my jaw clicks sometimes, but it wasn't a problem that needede treatment. however, the doctor said i had t tmj problem and he'd use fancybm machines to make certain. sure enough, his doppler hears noises in the joint. the sonogram draws a computeroie gram of my click. this test supposedly showed my muscles were sore. >> these machines confirm --

>> that i have tmj. >> three ten examined me and found no tmj. do you always find it? >> you obviously have a tmj problem. >> why don't three other dentists see it? why do you only see it? >> we use objective documentation. if they didn't identify it, well, that doesn't mean you don't have it. that just means they didn't don identify it. >> he recommended treatment take four to six months and cost around $3,000. i went on tv and basically said he ran a dental mill that ripped people off. so he sued me for libel. he claimed he didn't tell me to get treatment, therefore i damaged his reputation and a jury would punish me now. except now is not the right word. nothing ever happens now in our legal system. every day in the free market, in real life we invent ways to do things faster, better, cheaper. we have to 'cause there is competition.

but in the legal system, lawyers act like a monopoly.sys they almost never innovate. nothing goes quickly. it almost makes me feel sorry for people who sue me. before trial, my lawyers demanded that the doctor produce paperwork detailing all persons with whom you've had written or oral communication and each workshop or seminar which you participate, including but not h limited to your seminars for doctor, headache sufferers, the date, location and attendancehe and amount charged to each attendee and so on. the paperwork and delays were endless. he had to wait nearly four year just to get me into court. >> march 24, 1989 was a night of infamy when the doctor was attacked by 20/20 like no individual ever got attacked. >> his lawyer finally got to call me a liar, who sensationalized in pursuit of tv

ratings. he said that he never recommended that stossel get treatment. i had lied about that. fortunately my exam was on videotape of the the jury could just watch the tape and then decide. but that never happened. instead we had lawyer war. his lawyers played a few minutes that made it seem as if he hadn't recommended treatment. s my lawyers played parts that showed he did.l this happened again and again. three minute snippets back and forth, day after day for twoor weeks. it was ridiculous! why didn't the judge say, shut up, you lawyers. you're wasting the public's money. and the poor jurors' time.ubli just play the tape. j 'cause the judge is in on the lawyer's scam. judges are just lawyers inhe robes. they're comfortable with the system's slow pace. trials resemble religious rituals. we don't get speedy justice, bub we get lots of pomp ande b ceremony. >> all rise.a

>> you must stand when the judge appears. we call them honor annual whether the judge is or not. >> honorable. >> lawyers say this pomp is necessary to maintain respect for the law. but that's absurd. a court can take away all mybsur money and in a criminal case, al take away my freedom. that out to get them enoughim respect. the pompous ritual suggests there ise magic in law, work ony lawyers can do. since they're paid by the hour, the slow tradition let's them run up the bills. in my trial when the juryhe finally got to meet and decide my fate, they decided that i diy not libel the doctor by falsely portraying him as a carltaken. it showed he lied on the witness stand. so the court said he had to pay $250,000 to cover my side's sid legal bills. yippy, i won!

except i didn't win. in our system, you lose even when you win.lo 'cause these lawyers charge so much. the money abc got from the muc doctor hardly covered its legal cost. they were more than a million dollars. the doctor went on to get even richer. here is a story abouten his fany apartment. he got this rich with the help of more lawyers. here is his view.iden he charged insurance companiess big bucks to use dubious machines that he claimed would c relieve their pain. finally, 20 years after we revealed his insurance scam, philadelphia prosecutors nailed him and his daughter for a similar fraud. and he's now in jail. good. but it took much too long. everything lawyers do takes toot long. we need law and lawyers to keep the peace. but you should avoid using them. that's our show. see you next week.

fox news alert on this very busy saturday. missouri governor jay nixon declaring a state of emergency and now imposing a curfew after new clashes and looting in the city of ferguson. good afternoon. thank you for joining us on this very busy saturday afternoon. i'm lee land vittert. >> i'm molly line. it comes after tensions reignited following the police killing of michael brown. looters attacked a convenience store last night, the same one that appears to show brown stealing a box of cigars shortly before he was shot. the community showing frustration as the governor once again called for