good evening everyone. i'm megyn good evening, everyone i'm megyn kelly. welcome to our "the kelly file" special on bill ayers, a man who admits to bombing this country repeatedly in the 1970s and he got away scot-free because this is america he was a college professor who helped a president launch his political career. over the years he managed to redefine himself not as domestic terrorist but as a revolutionary, a kid who merely vandalized not one who inspired murder. he is a man who took chances with other people's lives and took every chance to dodge the

tough questions until one day he agreed to come to fox news and sit down with yours truly. barack obama and domestic terrorist bill ayers, friends. they've worked together for years but obama tries to hide it. why? he was one of the most controversial figures of barack obama's 2008 presidential campaign. >> our opponent is someone who sees america as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who target their own country. >> the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago when i was eight years old reflects on my values doesn't make much sense. >> a man everyone who wanted to talk to but whose silence was

deafening. >> what is your relationship with barack obama? >> bill ayers, friend of the man who would be president and an unrepentant terrorist. >> what you call a violent past was at time when thousands of people were being murdered by our government eh month and those who fought to end the war were on the right side. >> the son of a prominent illinois businessman, ayers came of age in the 1960s drawn to the civil disobedience of the day and offended by the vietnam war. >> we were escalate our attacks until impeer lymph is defeated in vietnam. >> in 1965 at age 20 he joined students for a democratic society or sds. >> i guess there is. >> in late '69 they held protests in chicago full of rage

about the war, race relations and the wealthy. they ravaged the city's business district. six were shot and dozens arrested. later that year, black panther leader was shot and killed by chicago police out of that moment, the group, the weathermen was born. a radical spinoff from sds. the mission? the violent overthrow of the government. >> we will be on all the streets from now on. >> a san francisco police station is bombed and an officer killed. police say the werthmen did it. next the bombing of a new york judge's home and the group plans to bomb a military dance but the explosives go off too soon destroying a new york city townhouse. found in the rubble, 60 sticks of dynamite. had the explosives detonated

they would have destroyed everything on both sides of the street. three people were killed in the blast including ayers' girlfriend identified by a single finger. >> now we are everywhere and next week family and tribes will attack the enemy around the country. we're not just attacking targets we're bringing the pitiful, helpless giant to its knees. >> ayers believed to be personally involved in three bombings. new york city police headquarters in 1970, the bombing of the u.s. capitol in '71, the bombing of the pentagon in 1972. ayers falls in love with former leader -- by 1973 the u.s. involvement in vietnam is ending but they don't surrender in

1980. they learned the most serious charges had been dropped due to government misconduct in the investigation. an incredible stroke of luck for the pair. within a year their former weathermen comrades were at it again, robbing a brinks truck in a crime that left three people dead. they settle in chicago, enter academia and befriend barack obama hosting a fundraiser for the illinois senate candidate. when their friend becomes a presidential candidate, ayers stays mostly quiet but emerges after the election sounding far from remorseful. >> i have been quoted as saying i don't think we did enough and i don't. >> and now for the first time ever, bill ayers walks into the fox news headquarters to face tough questions about his past and his future. >> we have to talk about you and

your domestic terrorist past. how many bombings are you responsible for? >> weather underground took credit for 20 in a period when there were 20,000 bombings in the united states against the war. >> you personally? >> me, personally i never talked about it and never will. >> you could have hurt people. >> absolutely. >> you acknowledge that. >> you claim you never did but there were risks. >> a terrible risk and we hurt thee of our people they died in the new york townhouse in 1970. that was a devastating loss. but what they were apparently planning to do would have been more devastating. it's a tragedy personally to us and to me. >> we'll get to that in a minute. but the weather underground began protests -- >> 1970.

>> but it became more militant as the years past. in 1970 you declared a war against the u.s. government. >> there is no way to be committed to nonviolence in the middle of the most violent society that history has created. >> why was more violence the answer? >> i would not argue that more violence was the answer. >> those are your people. >> she said i'm not committed to nonviolence. >> our rhetoric outstripped a lot of what was going on. but here's the reality i was arrested for opposing the war in vietnam in 1965. in the last five years i was arrested in demonstrations, sitting in at draft boards all nonviolent in an attempt to bringing a screaming warning that we were killing 6,000 people a week. when the war dragged on after 1968 when a majority of people came to oppose the war largely

through efforts like martin luther king vets coming home and telling the truth and the anti-war movement those things came together and the majority opposed the war. then the question is how do we stop it if it won't stop. this was a crisis for democrat sick and the anti-war movement. one of my brothers went to canada and deserted the army. one went to the democratic party and i did what i did. >> you think bow bergdae bergda hero too. >> i think throughout history we should build monuments to the unknown deserters.

>> as you were calling for more violence what we saw in february of 1970 was san francisco police officer brian mcdonnell, a 44-year-old father of two and husband was killed when a bomb went off at his police station and eight other police officers were injured in that blast. now your wife has been accused of that crime. do you deny it? >> absolutely deny it. nothing to do with it. but if it were -- this is one -- >> let me tell them how it does. larry -- infiltrated the weather underground and he claims that she complained she had to do it herself because others weren't active enough to committing violence. and the san francisco police union accused the weather underground of this murder. >> larry was never in the weather underground. he was in the sds. >> the precursor.

>> he was lying and the police union doesn't know what they're talking about. >> bernadine was not a fan of the police and referred to them typically as pigs. >> that was the inflated rhetoric of the time. yes. >> that sort of rhetoric is what catches people's attention when she is calling them pigs and celebrating bad things happening to the police and one gets murdered and you told larry she did it. >> never happened. it's true that the rhetoric was inflated. but you take a situation like chicago today. the police are a violent and out of control enterprise. the endless arrests in the black community. >> do you refer to them as pigs today? >> no. we hang out at the coffee shop and talk to them. when you look at the chicago police department which has been

involved in torture and freed people off death row in the last five years because of a systematic practice of torture and forced confessions and so on and these police officers, every one of them isn't guilty but every one is part of the conspiracy of silence. >> five days after the san francisco bombing, the weather underground bombed john murtagh's home. he was a trial court judge in new york state hearing a case involving the panther 21. and your group objected to the way he was handling that case -- >> we were supporting the panther 21. >> and his home was fire bombed in the middle of the night. in your book with bernadine you quote the weather underground communique. i'm quoting. two weeks before the townhouse explosion four members of this

group fire bombed judge murtagh's home as a action to support the panther 21. within that group the feeling developed that because nothing was done to hurt the pigs materially -- >> which book is in that? >> it's from one of your communiques. >> it's not my communiques. >> it's your wife's. >> it was an -- >> kathy wilkinson claims that the weather underground perpetrated that crime. >> that's not true to my knowledge. >> she wasn't telling the truth either? >> john murtagh believes that the weather underground perpetrated that crime. he has been on fox news a few times. he said the following. i want to give you a chance to

respond. >> your nine-year-old little boy asleep in your bed and what happens? >> early in the morning on washington's birthday four bombs went off two in the front of the house. there were two in the front that went off, there were bombs placed under the gas tank of our car in the back of the house. the first two went off the notion that bill ayers and the weather underground were about property damage is absurd. they all have blood dripping from their hands. >> not true. it was always property damage in our activities, always. and so it's just not true. >> you deny terry robbins was part of that bombing. >> we were very close but i have no idea if he was. i don't think he was. but he's gone and we don't know. >> he blew himself up. >> that's right. >> but one of the things that is interesting of these activities of 40 years ago.

i don't think it's bad to stir through them. i've written about them myself. i don't think there's anything wrong with that. but it would be fair and balanced to look at the violence that was and in going on perpetrated by the government and the official agencies and organs of the government. >> i hear you saying you sound like, with respect, osama bin laden. >> what? >> in order to evaluate my actions which have hurt a lot of people. i know you deny it. >> i deny it. when john murtagh says there is blood on your hands which blood? >> the san francisco police officer. >> we had nothing to do with it. >> that's what you claim. >> that's exactly right. >> but there is evidence to the contrary. >> why isn't someone on trial. >> the armored car incident. >> we were already above ground. >> there is evidence of it.

and there was a former member of the weather underground who came out and said this is murder. what you guys got the point where you considered murder. and you acknowledged that yourself. it got to the point where this property damage wasn't good enough for you. still ahead, ayers reacts to evidence that the weather underground went beyond vandalism including evidence from members of his own group. next. ave something for pain? i have bayer aspirin. i'm not having a heart attack, it's my back. i mean bayer back & body. it works great for pain. bayer back & body provides effective relief for your tough pain. better? yeah...thanks for the tip! even 10 miles away. they can see the light of a single candle. look after them with centrum silver. multivitamins for your eyes, heart and brain.

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back now to my exclusive interview with bill ayers, the man behind one of the most violent radical groups of the 1970s. and his reaction to the evidence that despite his claims his group went way beyond vandalism. you guys got to the point where you considered murder. and you acknowledge that yourself. it got to the point where this property damage wasn't good enough for you. and you decided a mass murder planning to bomb a military dance. >> terry had decided it needed to go further. and thank goodness it didn't. which i also saided at -- said

at the same moment. >> but you understand, professor, that what began for your group as outrage over mass killings then turned into a plan to kill hundreds of americans. did you not see the moral high ground? >> oh, absolutely. that was true for a few people. and it's one of the things we split on. so i write about it extensively in "fugitive days." you should read it. it's an extensive explanation. and i don't defend it. >> as i hear you sitting you don't sound remorseful. >> you want me to be remorseful for something i didn't do rather than for the things i did do. >> this is your group, professor ayers. >> no, that's not true. >> yes, it is. this is the weather underground that was going to bomb military officers. >> and we criticized it then and now. and we said it's wrong. it was wrong. it is wrong. >> professor, the only reason it didn't happen -- >> it didn't happen, exactly. >> -- because a bomb blew up on those who were making it. and when it blew up your girlfriend, diana autoon was killed. and you later described her death as valiant. >> i later described imaginary -- nobody knows what happened, but what i imagined in

"fugitive days" is her trying to stop that horrendous event from taking place. so that's how i described it. i don't say that she was valiant. i don't say that. >> you describe her death as valiant. >> no, i talk about her trying to stop what would have been a horrendous thing. >> that's your imagination. how do you know she was against that bomb? >> i don't know. that's exactly right. no one knows. you don't know. john murtagh doesn't know. but the idea that somehow this is the moral equivalent of 6,000 people a week being killed strikes me as nuts. we were destroying property and in the course of discussion some people thought we should go much further. but we didn't. >> your critics say when you make that argument you sound like adolf hitler. >> you want to talk about who's in that grand tradition of destroying thousands, millions of people? it's the american war in vietnam where john mccain was in fact dropping bombs from the air on civilians. and he did it consistently -- >> and when the weather underground went into a townhouse and put together a bomb with nails in it -- >> terrible thing.

>> and allegedly -- i mean, allegedly killed a police officer -- >> terrible thing. >> -- and bombs the home of john murtagh, a federal judge with a 9-year-old boy in bed. >> didn't kill a police officer. >> you deny it but there's evidence to the contrary. >> if there's evidence to the contrary, why isn't somebody on trial? >> doesn't mean they can prove it without a reasonable dd. but the san francisco police captain says you did it. >> it's frankly not true. and john murtagh, that also is not true, he has his opinion, but nobody was hurt or killed. the townhouse as i said was a terrible, terrible deviation. >> a communique that was issued by the weather underground claims credit for the murtagh home bombing. >> meanwhile, 6,000 people a week are being murdered. >> you made that point. back to the ends justify the means. >> is that not the slippery slope towards hitler -- >> the end doesn't justify the means. >> it's absolutely not unless you say the united states is saying the ends justify the

means, which they often do say. >> you got to a point where the group had to go underground. >> we decided to go underground. we didn't have to. >> while underground you stole. you lied. you hid, right? >> we did, that's right. >> any disagreement? you stole? >> onwards, yes. >> you wrote about it in your book. >> we stole ids. >> purses, wallets, money. >> some. >> you ripped off dead babies identities. >> right. >> and yet the violence continued just because you went underground doesn't mean the violence stopped. >> what violence? >> june, 1970, you bomb the new york city police headquarters. >> so now again -- >> let me just list it. march 1st 1971 you bomb the u.s. capital. may 19, 1972 you bombed the pentagon. january 29, 1975 you bombed the state department. that's what i mean by violent. >> that's actually destruction of property. you can call it violence, but to equate it to the murder of human beings is nonsense. it doesn't equate. >> you realize people could have been hurt. >> i said people could have been hurt and thank god they ren't.

and we made every attempt not to. and they weren't. >> but do you appreciate the recklessness of that? >> i don't say it wasn't reckless. >> who are you to potentially endanger the lives of those individuals who may be in or around this building? >> i don't say it wasn't reckless or illegal. it was illegal. we talk lines of legality -- >> you could have murdered somebody with those bombs. >> and we didn't. but actually the people who were conducting the war in vietnam did actually murder people. >> so the answer is to then make yourself a murderer as well? >> wait. do the ends -- the fight against communism justify those means. >> you are answering a question with a question. >> you account for your own. >> i will and you account for your reporting. >> this is all from your book, sir. >> yeah, i know. but you talk about lies, nothing's more clear than the systematic lying of the american government to get us into war after war after war. >> you keep dodging. you keep pointing to the government and not taking accountability. >> i'm not dodging.

i've said it in print what i'm responsible for and not responsible for. but it's hard to get me to admit that i'm responsible for something i didn't do. you keep saying -- >> you did these bombings. you admitted the weather underground did 20 bombings. that's your group. >> and i would not apologize for destroying property in defense 6,000 people from -- >> and as soon as it crosses over to somebody being injured you deny it. >> no, i think that would have been a real problem. >> next, what happened when ayers and his wife, bernadine dohrn resurface and their plan to defeat the american empire. b resurfaced? plus, their plan to defeat the american empire. [ female announcer ] it's simple physics...

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welcome back to our "kelly file" special. bill ayers, the founder of the radical weather underground admits that his group bombed 20 targets including the pentagon, the u.s. capital and the state department. all he says to protest the vietnam war and other left wing causes of the '70s. afraid to face the consequences of their actions, ayers and dohrn went underground in 1970 and didn't resurface for ten years. in 1980 you and bernadine dohrn resurfaced. and when she turned herself in bernadine dohrn to defeat the american empire.

>> good for her. >> you say -- but your comrades did not get the let's be more peaceful memo. i say this because kathy wilkerson, a member of the weather underground, correct? >> she was with us understood ground but -- >> right. she wrote after the fact, and i quote, the process by which weather leaders change from the language of glorifying violence in january 1970 to moderation was invisible to almost all weather members. certainly the assumption of most was that a plan to build a clandestined fighting force was full steam ahead. if ayers says things were different in the west, most participants did not know this. what did you do to communicate to the people in your group no more violence? >> i don't agree with kathy. so i don't know what to say about it. we were a loose organization. we were not a disciplined organization. but we changed dramatically in 1970 there's no question. >> but you take responsibility -- i read the communique, which said you bombed the murtagh house.

>> well, there are many communiques. including after the townhouse, explaining the -- >> not the townhouse. it said you bombed the murtaghs. >> yeah. >> do you take responsibility for riling people up with your incendiary rhetoric and then setting them upon the american public with a commitment to violence? >> no, no, no. we did not set ourselves upon the american public. where did we set ourselves upon the american public? >> you were calling for more violence. you were riling your people up. kathy wilkerson talking about if there was a decision to get more peaceful, it was not communicated to the troops. you were the leadership. >> no, the people who riled up the response that they got over the five years in the early 1970s was the government itself riling us up to a genocidal murder. >> it wasn't bill ayers? >> no, i absolutely thought we should do more, we should be more effective. >> and that meant more violence. >> it didn't always mean more violence. >> but it did sometimes. >> no.

you're using violence in a conflated way. >> you want these 20-year-olds to understand your nuance principles of i meant militancy, i didn't mean -- and i want to bomb property, but i don't want to kill people. and i can trust all these people to follow my edicts. >> throughout the left at that time, the catholic left, the bareagains, people were destroying property. >> once again you go to somebody else. i'm talking to you about you. when other people do bad things, we hold them accountable. today i have you at the table. >> and i'm saying we should have done more to stop that genocidal war. and that included destroying more property. absolutely. >> so your argument in response to my question is about what you did to tamp down the violence was we should have done more to amp it up? >> we should have done more to just stop the war. and that means being more effective on every level including destroying more draft boards, destroying more draft files, hammering on nuclear warheads. we did all of that. >> i feel the audience now has a

feeling for where you are at this point in your mind. but this is when you resurfaced from being underground. and within a year of that, october 20th, 1981, was a triple homicide. david gilbert of the weather underground, kathy bodine and judy, partner with the black liberation army, they killed two cops, along with a security guard named peter page. you were very close with gilbert and bodine. >> still am. >> i know it. kathy bodine learned some of her very criminal tactics while she was with weather underground. she was in the townhouse that exploded when that bomb went off. >> that's true. >> wasn't she? you adopted her child because she and her husband were going to jail. he's still in jail for a life sentence. for murdering two cops and a security guard. >> biological father. >> there's no question she did it. she pled guilty. >> absolutely. and she paid the price for that. and it was a terrible, dreadful, miscalibrated horrible action. and they paid the price. >> so you don't see her as

valiant too? >> i don't think what they did was valiant. she's a wonderful person -- >> and you don't think what they did had anything to do with what they learned or heard while in the weather underground? >> absolutely not. it was a different time and different moment. >> another thing you had nothing to do with. >> absolutely not. but we did have to do with adopting their son and raising him to the wonderful person he is today. that was part of what we did, yeah. >> and your wife, bernadine dohrn was asked to cooperate in that investigation. >> that's right. >> she refused. >> absolutely. she spent seven months in jail because she refused to help the police. >> she refused to speak to a grand jury. that's quite different. >> why would she do that? >> because the grand jury is a star chamber that takes you behind closed doors without the benefit of a lawyer and asks you to speak to -- >> what does she have to hide? >> -- u.s. attorney. if they pulled you in and said, megyn, we're going to talk to you about a bunch of stuff, bill o'reilly mainly, if you don't have anything to hide, you'd say no way. >> i'd say two cops are dead and so is a security guard and i

will help the government put whoever did it behind bars. >> no. >> yes, i would, sir. >> that's not what they said. they said we're not going to show you the evidence or ask you if you're a target, we're going to ask you a bunch of questions. >> professor, nine children lost their father that day. >> i agree with you. >> why didn't your help? >> i agree with you. i think it was a terrible, terrible crime. so that's not what we're disagreeing about. grand juries are a terrible overreach of the u.s. government. terrible. and they should be resisted. and everybody who thinks about it has resisted them. they were used against monica lewinsky, you know, against many, many people. >> they're part of our government. >> and should be resisted. >> the question is your wife felt as she did in 1970 when she seemed perfectly fine with murder, she said about the charles manson murders of a pregnant woman and six others. >> this is not true. >> "offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives and eating a meal in the same room,

far out. the weather men dig charles manson." this is your sweetheart? this is your soulmate? >> this is nonsense. and this is something again that gets recirculated. >> you deny she said it? >> absolutely. what she said is american culture is so obsessed with the craziness, and it still goes on today. >> that's not how the "new york times" reported it. the "new york times" reported it exactly as i read it. do they lie too? >> they lie daily. seriously. >> a long list of people who have told terrible lies about the weather underground. >> i'm completely candid about the weather underground. you can read it in any of my books. it's not true -- you certainly don't believe that the "new york times" gets things right every time. >> even kathy admitted that bernadine dohrn made this speech about charles manson and how the much the weather underground dig him. >> that's just not true. what she said was here we are in a genocidal war, here we are murdering black panthers, and what is the news media focused on? this crazy guy who, you know, stuck a fork in somebody and she was mocking it.

and it was reported as if she were supporting it. she doesn't support it. it doesn't matter. it's an endless echo chamber that you help perpetuate. >> is it true that the weather underground had a serious discussion before it went underground about whether they should kill all white babies -- >> no. >> as a university of arizona professor claims. here he is. >> i remember going to the last aboveground weather -- it was the weathermen. there was a weather underground, the last aboveground convention. and sitting in a room and the question that was debated was was it -- was it or was it not duty of every good revolutionary to kill all newborn white babies? >> because they would ultimately join the revolution. >> it's absolutely nuts. there's no truth to it. and so it's hard to kind of have a conversation with you -- >> i'm just asking. i don't know whether that man's telling the truth or not. >> no truth to it.

>> okay. when you became a parent, did it soften you at all to the reality of what you had done, potentially endangering other people's parents and children? >> it was the best thing that ever happened to me becoming a parent. soften me, i don't know what that means. but, you know, it's the best thing i've ever done is to raise three remarkable young men. >> so the big question still, how close was ayers to barack obama? have they spoken since mr. obama became president and bill ayers was in the headlines? and would bill ayers bomb america today? that's next. america today? that's next. (vo) ours is a world of passengers. the red-eyes. (daughter) i'm really tired. (vo) the transfers. well, that's kid number three. (vo) the co-pilots. all sitting... ...trusting... ...waiting... ...for a safe arrival.

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you got a job teaching with the university of illinois. do you see any irony in accepting a government paycheck and winding up where you did? >> absolutely not. where's the irony? >> the life opposing the government regime, wanting to throw down the government as you put it. >> well, look, we all live in the actual world. even the things we're critical of, this is the world we live in. should i not make a living? i mean, i'm asking you, seriously? >> no, it's fine. >> thank you. >> but your wife miraculously got a job teaching at northwestern university law school. >> successfully. >> they must be offering classes in what you can learn from your future clients. but are you surprised that you got those job offers, you and she? >> not really. >> she was on the fbi's ten most wanted list. >> i know. so was angela davis. you know, a lot of great people have been on that list. but angela davis is also a professor. no, the thing is i got my doctorate when i was 43 years old. i interviewed at several universities. the best offer i got was the

university of illinois. i took it. we moved to chicago with our three kids. she started a center for children and families. and eventually northwestern law school wanted her to be a part of that. >> and kathy bodine wound up there as well. many members of the weather underground are now in academia. how much ideology did the two of you share? >> zero. >> good friends, not good friends? >> i knew him as well as he knew 10,000 other people. today i wish i knew him much better and i wish he'd listen to me. >> did he ever contact you once you became the story in his presidential race? >> absolutely not. and i didn't contact him. >> the entire time he's been president you haven't been in contact with him? >> no. although i wish i were because i have a lot of advice for him. >> you want him to go further to the left? >> oh, i want him to stop droning people. i want him to stop -- i want him to close guantanamo. you depot -- you know, universal health care. don't you think we deserve universal health care, seriously. medicare for all.

>> you say in your book you can't quite imagine putting a bomb in a building today but you can't imagine entirely dismissing that possibility either. what would it take to make you think of bombing this country again? >> well, you're taking that sentence in a funny way. but what i'm saying is it seems so long ago. what i'm saying in that passage is it seems so long ago and so far away. like another world. on the other hand as violent and nuts as we can be as a country, i can't completely say no, i would never, ever rise up in opposition in a very militant and serious way. i can't say i wouldn't. i doubt it. i'm 70 years old. so it's unlikely. but i think that i wanted to say there exactly what bernadine said on tape, no, i'm not committed to nonviolence as an ideology. and frankly neither are you. because we live in the most violent society around. and we commit war crimes day in and day out. and often as a matter of policy. and yet that seems perfectly fine with you. >> bill ayers, thank you for being here. >> thank you. up next, the final part of my exclusive sit-down with bill

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well, we met bill ayers when he agreed to join filmmaker right here on our set for a special about the new film "america." that may have been the most interesting part of our exchang "america." here is part of their debate on american exceptionalism. >> why do you think it is so few liberals say they are proud to be american? >> i have no idea. >> are you proud to be an american? >> i'm not proud to be an american. the reason is because of the damage that we do around the world is so serious and so ongoing. if you look anywhere in the world, look all through latin america. ordinary people on the street admire cuba for one reason. they stood up to america. >> we stood up to some people too. germany. >> i understand. that was us at our best. after 9/11. >> why don't you think about the

good when you think about what america is? >> i do often think about the good. i'm a human being. i believe we should be struggling with the question what does it mean to be human in the 21st century? what is it that is required of us? we are all human. america is 5% of the world's population. we should be -- we should think of ourselves of a people among people. not an exceptional people. as soon as you start saying american exceptionalism, actions done by us versus other people are different. >> that's an unusual attitude. >> exceptionalism doesn't mean a different foreign standard is applied. i have grown up in another culture. if you gave the power that

america as to russia or china, they would use it far more expansively and brutally. america is benign in the way it exercises its power. the american idea of wealth creation is being embraced in india and china. it's lifting hundreds of millions of people out poverty. >> we're benign in iraq. for example, you say we use our power benevolently. >> we went to afghanistan because the taliban supplied monkey bars to the guys from 9/11 who attacked us directly. >> why didn't we get the guys who attacked us directly? the entire history of the last 50 years of american foreign policy is we go in under the guise of being benign and we go

in under the lies of one president after another and then we get booted out. what do we do? we blame the brown guys. >> you think we're blaming a guy for a mess in iraq because he's brown? is that what you think? >> i think we always blame our clients. >> do you think we're blaming him for the mess in iraq because he's brown? >> i think we happen to blame our clients. he had failed in vietnam. we hadn't failed. we were perfect. >> america has made mistakes. it made mistakes in vietnam. the iraq war in retrospect was a mistake. there's a difference between making a mistake and doing something inherently wicked. anyone else who went into iraq would have reimbursed itself by

taking the iraqi oil. we spend all this money in iraq and we turn it over to the ir i iraq iraqis. it ends up costing us money. >> you're absolutely mistaken. you're saying the oil is just there and iraq is using it as it sees fit. you're dreaming. thank you. >> that's not responsive. >> america on balance lost. >> okay. let me ask you this. at the end of the cold war, all of eastern europe is free. a are all those countries worse off or better off because we won the cold war? >> i think you're dreaming about that. >> those are good things. >> i think the end of

aauthoritarian governments is always a good thing. >> for the rest of that debate, go to facebook.com/thekellyfile. and we will be right back. hoo, hoo, hoo oohh, you got it! i love the looks of it. (sound of garage closing) nobody touches my dodge dart, jake johnson not even your best friend slash neighbor? no one i can still get in craig i'd like to see you try all i'd have to do is roll in, dude. let's see it i choose not to right now come on indiana common, let me in. let me in! mmmm let me sit in the car mmmm ♪ don't touch my dart

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we'd love to know wh we'd love to know what you think of our exchange. was he just a 1970s radical trying to do good by drawing attention to a controversial war in vietnam? does this man belong in jail? what about his wife? does she have blood on her hands and what is she doing at northwestern law school? follow me on twitter. let me know what you think. thanks for watching everybody.

i'm megyn kelly, and this is a kelly file special. tonight on "red eye." coming up on "red eye" a giant evil turtle on the attack in sydney harbor. we have the hour -- the horrifying images before the beast snuck up on him and devoured him whole. do they want to deport all dudes named kyle? >> not only is it good for the economy, but it is the right thing to do. >> and finally, what do teens think of the new segment teen corner with greg gutfeld? we will show you what happened when gutfeld made on perns at a -- an appearance at a local mall. money of these stories on "red eye"