kelly. i am megyn kelly this is a fox news special on weather underground bill ayers. >> let's make them pay. they are every where. >> some lawyers who claim they will solve our problems. may be entitled to a large cash award. >> bill o'reilly wants more law. >> if we have prison over crowding more. >> i want to put a sign up. >> we have too many laws. let's get rid of some. that is our show tonight. >> and now john stossel.

(applause) >> don't you hate the lawyers who defend nasty criminals? is i do when they help murder the get away with it. casey anthony p didn't she chloroform her kid and go out partying. o.j. simpson didn't she stab his wife to death? is they were acquitted because of good lawyers. it is not my job to determine if a person is guilty or innocent every american deserves a defense. they fight hard for herible people, child molesters rapists how can they live with themselves. morgan reamer is head of the association of criminal defense lawyers. how can you live with yourself? >> i have been a criminal defense lawyer my entire life and i am proud of it. the idea that when someone is

accused of a crime when the short marshals the most awesome power they have the power to prosecute, condemn, em prison, kill and certainly to stigma ties for life they should have a defense lawyer to stand against them. >> when you see the o.j. simpson and casey anthony verdict go down you are comfortable with that? >> i am okay with them putting the government to the test to see if they can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. >> we have a bigger problem with wrongful conviction than we have with wrongful acquittal. this country is over criminalized. >> meaning too many laws too many people in jail. we will get to that. let me do one more example. hillary clinton was a defense lawyer in the washington free beacon recorded her laughing bragging she got an accused sentence for a man accused of

raping a 12-year-old girl. >> she thought the guy was guilty because she laughed about him passing a polygraph. shouldn't she be ashamed of that? >> there is nothing to be ashamed of in representing someone. whether or not it is appropriate to be laughing i don't know the context of that was. i p haven't seen the whole interview. i don't know if it was a nervous laugh. i don't know what it was. the she was a defense lawyer for about five minutes. i have been a defense lawyer for 30 years. i will proudly stand with a person who issen innocent or guilty. even the guilty deserve to have somebody advocate with them to prevent the lowest moment in their life from necessarily defining the rest of their lives. >> to broad enthis on criminal

defense lawyers you notice on the surveys of which professions contribute to sewsite's well-being lawyers are at the bottom. >> i can tell you this when somebody is in trouble and in this country we are arresting 14 million poem a year. they need to have somebody with them. >> journalists come close to the bottom of that list, too. >> we have to live with the caricatures. >> i invited norman on this show because i think he makes very good points. it is natural when something bad happens to want government to do something to stop it. the hardest thing is to pass a law they pass more every year. now america has so many criminal laws government can't even count how many there are. politicians say they can solve all of our problems with laws

but no, they can't. you make good points. >> obviously. >> obviously. i will take that. >> just to give you -- put some perspective on it, numbers do paint the picture. in 1900 we had federal criminal provision. today we have it is more thoon 300,000 and as you say they haven't even been able to count them. people in this country as we sit here tonight we are the number one incarcerate tore in the world in terms of per capita and kul numbers. >> more than china, more than russia. >> more than every country we know of except north korea. we don't know about north korea.

it is costing us a foreign tune. there been few people left who don't have a neighbor, a co-worker a friend who has had some brush with criminal law. we have teen 65 and 70 million people in this country with criminal records. >> the biggest crime driving without a license. >> absolutely. most of those people are not being charged with driving without a license for any other reason as a regulatory matter. they didn't pay child support or traffic fines. >> they broke the law. >> sure. >> because of that we are going to impede their opportunity for the rest of their lyes. the other thing we have to stop suing the criminal law for everything done. >> i am with you on that. >> the reason for the 2 million in jail is mostly because people tried to alter their consciousness by using drugs. people like bill o'reilly whose

show is popular want tougher laws for people who buy and sell drugs. >> i don't care whether you have 7 pills or not, these lead to death. if you sell them you are going to spend a lot of time in prison. if bev prison over crowding we will build more prisons. >> what is wrong with that? >> it is a waste of human resources and economic race. >> maybe crime is down because we lock up so many people. >> there is no statistic to back that up. it is over incarceration problem they reduce the prison population and at the same time they reduce their crime. >> you are right about that. thank you, norman. it's a little depressing talking about people's lives being wrecked. let's lighten things up.

let's talk about emergency success kwauch ordinance. >> that's a law that really exists after idea yacht politicians believe this video depicting a harry april known as sasquatch or big foot. it makes it illegal for any one to kill a sasquatch. it is also the title of kevin under hill's book. the sub site teal has useless law that human beings actually enacted. how did we get the big foot law? >> two possible reasons one is sasquatch protection. >> politicians aren't that dumb. >> in this case they may have worried about people who are dumb. either sass wash fro teches ork they wanted protection from people who do believe in sasquatch that may have ran

around the forest with guns hunting for something that looks like a man. >> the poop law. >> it is still on the books. there was no artificial fertilizer at the time so we needed more. turns out a great place to get fertilizer -- turns out bird poop makes a good fertilizer the great place to live it is on islands where they lived undisturbed for many years. some of the islands had deposits up to 50 meters. >> i would rather not image it. >> they passed a law that said if you encounter one of these you can claim it and it will become part of the united states so you can mind the dumb du -- dung. >> you cannot take fur animal by the use of dynamite or other explosive compound.

>> right. you thought "caddyshack" was fiction but in fact it happens. >> you have a category the government not minding it's own business. >> if you needed a ridiculous law needed an example quickly go to any state's criminal code or federal criminal code and slook under the section defenses against decency and morals. you can find stuff in there that is completely ridiculous. >> in the criminal codes still in the books, laws against fornication. >> right. >> so no one fornicates any more. >> these laws are harmless because they are not enforced. >> are you confident somebody is not going to use one of these laws as harassment? >> no, i am not confident. there's one place there is some hope people are wising up? >> pminnesota. what happened there? >> inin minute la-- minnesota lt

year he called it the governor the unsession. they tried to make lists of laws that are out daded th outdated they didn't need it was covered by federal law or something similar. they signed 1100 laws they decided they didn't need. they repealed all of them. >> 1100 laws gone, that's a start. i prefer the stossel rule which is for every law politicians pass they have to repeal five old ones. (applause) >> we can dream, can't we? to keep the conversations going use the hash tag buried in law, let us know what you think. coming up the story of a rich guy living in this fancy apartment.

this is the view. he sued me and he just got put in jail. also not all lawyers are evil there are the good guys who ride to the rescue. ♪ ♪

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>> the government tried to take her home. iraqi government wanted aqi government wanted >> i thought your home was your castle? no i am wrong in america today government can just take your home and give it to somebody else. big government uses big law to do lots of things that seem to violate what is in here the constitution. the lawyers are take your fee if government steps on you. >> i have to admit when i heard about your firm and seemed like a good idea libertarians get together to fight bad laws with lawsuits. i said are you kidding me? the answer to anything can't be

more lawsuits. >> it can be because there's a vital need to have american as rights detected. they have to be protected by an edge gauged court system. police legislatures and executive officials reigning them in to limit government power is respected. in a is what it is all about. >> you already had five cases before the supreme court. four victories. >> we have a track record of striking down laws or shaming legislatures enough to repeal the law after we challenged them. >> that was a challenge to eminent domaidomain.

it was to be used for roads and bridges not for private development projects. >> we take these people homes for the developer. they took the homes down. >> tlz an empty seal there filled with sterile caps and demolition degree you are not only arguing in the court of law but of public opinion. the outrage people felt about kilo we have seen an enormous backlash against this decision over 40 state legislatures changed their laws so a lot of good came out of that bad decision. >> the casino wants to bull doedz charlie burn baum. >> you have to be vigilant in the fight for liberty. they are not going to stop violating liberty. you are seeing em p nant doe nan use come back.

we are there to defend this in their home. >> the lawyer ps against you say -- we don't have to provide the details of how we plan to use the land. they say it is redevelopment. the economic engine of the casinos in atlantic city is vital the success of the state. that's the public purpose we have to fan them. >> that is outrageous. all of the casinos are being bankrupt. they have no idea what they are going to do with the land. that's what they did in london took her home and the home of her neighbors now nine years after the supreme court decision now there is no tax revenue. >> the lawsuit his institutes filed that i think are most important are there suits against laws at that make it hard for the little guys to do

business. the government said i could not. >> the government am called us outlaws. >> a van driver a tour guide. >> what the in common is they want to pursue an honest living free from government interference. you see them teaming up in order to stop people from starting a taxi cab company. >> they get contributions. >> it is a marriage of political power and private gain. it is protectionism which is not what the government should be doing. >> now a new one animal massage. what's that about? >> it is typically equine massage. >> this is where athletes get regular massages and horses also

benefit from having massagemass. >> arizona has a law saying you cannot do this for money unless you become a license the vet spend hundreds of dollars go to years and years of school for performing equine massage. those that go to vet schools they don't teach it themselves. it keeps people out of doing a legitimate business and the horses like it quite a bit. >> they do it with dogs and cats, too. >> you use tv to explain what you do but this one is too much. >> i thought to myself how was i going to fight this, nen i got a call from ij. there was ij. >> they came riding in to save the day.

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symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol increase the risk of death from asthma problems. symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. ] now symbicort tell your doctor if significantly improvestion lung function, starng within 5 minutes. and that makes a differen in my breathing. tod, i'm hanging out withy best friend. talk to your ctor about symbicort. i got my first prescription free. call or gonline to learn more. [ male announcer ] if you can't afford your mication, astrazeneca may be able to help. >> question brought stuff from you. it turned out to be counterfeit. >> you never bought anything from me. >> you didn't buy anything from me. >> i was that young once. that was stossel the consumer reporter. i spent years confronting liars,

cheats. i was frustrated because i couldn't punish the bad guy. i was glad when lawyers got involved sued the cheaters. that will make things better i thought. then i realized lawsuits often do more thaharm than good. often the crook still got off. >> sometimes the victim would tell me i got ripped off by my lawyer. the promise of solution bylaws is not what it turned oh you tell to be. change.org the president is jennifer. explain it. >> so change.org is the world's largest spet tiggs platform. we create changes on the causes they care about. we have 70 million people using it. we win victories an average of 20 a day. almost one an hour in every topic you can image. >> how are you the biggest?

all of these others angie's list, yelp, what did you do that got 70 million? >> the heart of what we do comes from people's personal stories. they talk about things that matter to them and what they are struggling with in their life. they use the platform to mobilize things around them. they have the people who have the power to change them. we see it, woulding every day. >> on youtube she posts on this. she is battling a deadly disease. >> they will admit openly gay scouts. >> they kicked her off the team for being a girl. >> i wanted to play and have other girls be able to play. >> (applause)

>> she was allowed to play? >> 11-year-old girl from pennsylvania she was playing football her whole life and when she was 11 they decided girls could no longer play. she started a petition on change.org and had hundreds of thousands of people to sign it. she went on ellen show and little did you know they decided the archdiocese of philadelphia decided to let her play football and not just her but every girl that wants to play from now on. >> it caught on through change.org. >> she shares it with her friends and family first they s share it and were from they are mobilized. >> the girl needed a lung trance lant and the law said children can't receive transplants from adults. >> they could only get one from children even though they were large enough to have an adult lung. >> her mother started it when she had two weeks to live. she was able to mobilize people

effectively and get a stay from a judge to agree to give sara and one other boy lung transplants so they bette lived and now the law has been changed. children under 12 can be eligible for adult lungs. >> and the boy scouts now will accept gays. i don't think it was just because of you guys. >> we sought 124 different petitions over 13 months signed 1.8 million people. it wasn't just one petition on our web site it was many campaigns over time. millions of people and us partnering with other organizations. >> fhe built a little library ad put it in his yard. >> and the reading, get to know your neighbors. >> the family came home from a trip to find this letter explaining the library violates an ordinance which doesn't allow

structures in the front yard of single family homes. a oo which i think was put there to keep people from putting cars in their front yards. >> another citizen started a petition on his behalf and it took 33 signatures sta sconvinc the city to change it and keep the lending library. >> you have gotten people out of jail. ryan ferguson granted a new trial for freedom. >> the ryan ferguson had been in prison for 10 years for a crime he clearly didn't ommit. both witnesses said they recanted their testimony, their testimony was not accurate and there was no other evidence against him. >> but the lawyers just put him in jail they weren't going to touch it? >> the chitrial went through. his father asked them to either grant him a new trial or to let him free.

first they would not retry him and they would let him free. we had another one, just yesterday we help a man who had been in jail for 17 years for a crime he didn't commit. turns out the prosecutors had been falsifying the evidence against him. >> lawyers do that. a oo he was released. >> thank you jennifer. it is good to know we can do these things without lawyers. >> coming up the studio audience gets to award a thousand bucks to the person who submits the stupidest lawyer driven warning label. here's one entry. this deck cal meant to be stuck on a bicycle helmet, warning, decal for decoration only, will not prevent injury. more coming up. we are born makers.

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john: if you have the nerve to try to manufacture something in america, then probably will try to protect yourself from lawsuits by adding detailed warnings about what might >> how stupid do these labels get? pretty stupid. dr. jones runs the annual whacky warning label contest. he gives $1,000 to the person who submits the stupidest warning label. who wins this year? after reviewing lots of entries bob narrowed it down to five and he has agreed to let you our studio audience pick the worst. whoever submitted the label you picked gets the 1 thousand bucks. >> you can catch your teeth in a

basketball net walk away with 50,000 dollars anybody is looking over their shoulder. this is why we see warnings like this on a football helmet. warning no helmet can protect you from serious injuries don't engage in the sport of football. they warn you not to use their product. >> number two. these decals which they are just de tales and they say, one says be careful, this decal will not prevent injury. it is for a bike helmet. oo oh that is pretty obvious. >> finally we called the companies and the football helmet, the company didn't respond on the bicycle helmet decals they had no comment. what's the third? >> this is on a little battery booster cell phone battery booster. this is a growing trend of miss translated warnings. warning, get rid of children.

(applause) >> that is a poor manufacturer who struggles with english. >> number four here. the decal is stuck. on this printer toner. this is awful black stuff. it is deep inside the printer. it says do not drink. who would do that? >> one of my favorites last year you have a little child toy maybe for a two-or three-year-old. it says do not push vehicle while child is sitting in it. >> this is disney my old employer. they didn't have any comment either. which of these is the worst? in a moment we will get to vote which of these is the worst the football helmet that says don't play football. the decal won't prevent injury. the charger that says get rid of

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♪ [applause] john: now we are back with >> we are back with some of our guests to take your questions and comments about lawsuit abuse. first we will pick the winner of the worst warning labels. but let's talk about why has this happened? doesn't happen in other countries. >> our intent is not to come with other labelings products. they will be sued over things they will not be sued for. >> they drilled his chief with a wood router and sued the maker of the wood system. >> people feel they can sue without a down side. >> that's why every other country that is skrilized has a loser pay system. if you sue somebody in a frivolous manner you are going to pay their legal bills.

that's a strong disincentive to sue. >> we have all of these labels and people don't read the ones you are reading. >> on a box of pms my doll it says do not use if you have an enlarged prostate. >> might be a guy who has such a bad headache that he is willing to use his wife's my doll. >> you ready to vote on the worst? >> all right. only get to pick one. raise your hand if you think this is the stupidest. no helmet can protect you from brain to avoid these risks do not engage in the sport of football. >> number two. this deck cal is for decoration and will not prevent injury.

>> fewer of you. number three. you got it. the battery charger get rid of childre children. that is in first place. you are voting twice. the ink toner that says do not drink. okay. nobody votes for that. and number five, the bush toy here it is. don't push the vehicle while a child is riding in it. who votes for that? wow. i thought that was going to win. the winner is, get rid of children. >> cell phone battery booster. >> and he's going to give a thousand dollars to larry klein from costa mesa, california. >> second prize football helmet

mark leindel in novi, minnesota. >> that is 500 bucks. >> now your questions for some of our other guests. who is first? >> my name is kenny. we have known in this country there are horrendous laws but what can we as ordinary citizens do to try to fix it ourselves? >> we have become a society that boo looks to solve everything bypassing a criminal law. at first blush it's really the politician. any time something bad happens it is easy to say let's make another criminal law or make the stiffer. we have to say don't give us criminal laws unless you show what the impact is going to be. show us what benefit we are going to get. showest what the costs are going to be of enforcing it. it is up to the people now to say enough. >> yes? >> i was wondering how many laws

there are in america? oo overall. >> at that many. nobody knows. they can't even count the criminal law. >> that's right. >> hello. i am nick ritchie from connecticut my question is for scott in the middle. why are laws so unclear? you have one lawyer tell you another thing and another lawyer tell you something completely different? >> lawings should try to make it as simple as they can be. >> they try to make them clear. >> if you stuck to simple rules and abided by the constitution as well which isn't very long, even though it is such a great document, we would have a much freer society. >> this is for norman. earlier we talked about hillary clinton getting a child rapist acquitted. couldn't she have or any defense lawyer look at the evidence, say this guy is guilty, i am not going to defend him but instead

they choose to get this person off on a technicality and a rapist goes free. >> i don't know what the facts of that case were. a what i know is this, every person when they are confronted with a full force of the government they are entitled to have somebody stand up for them and make sure that if the evidence is there and if it is legal that that is what is required in order to convict somebody. >> is there anybody here who hasn't done something wrong in their life? can anybody raise their hand and say, i have never done anything -- >> can anybody raise their hand? >> no one can. >> so we have one saint. >> look, this is about human dignity. the idea of having representations for a person is about the dignity of the individual. >> thank you, norman. >> my day in court. it is good news.

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r favorite players come on, get open... yeah... with nfl mobile on verizon. yes! get in there! go, go, go, go, yes! let's go, drew. the "not-so-good more" would be them always watching you. go for it, paul! get open! come on, paul! let's go! hustle! what is that, chamomile tea?! uh, lattes. you wanna take a nap?! get the "good more" with nfl mobile, free with the more everything plan. exclusively from verizon. now get 50% off all new smartphones. ♪ john: i have sued and been sued. when people just cannot agree sometimes there is no other option but going to court. that is why we have courts and judges and lawyers and loss what the lawyers do with their power is often outrageous.

they are so slow and expensive. then they are mostly indifferent to the fact that they are slow and expensive. they say that's just the way our system works. >> john stossel the fighting. >> i told a dentist he was enriching himself that patients and insurance companies expense by telling people you need treatment for a problem with your jaw. >> tell me about the clicking in your jaw. >> mainly when i eat i hear click, click. >> my jaw clicked sometimes but it wasn't a problem that needed treatment. he said i had tmj problem and he would use fancy machines to make certain. his doppler draws a diagram of my click. this emg showed my muscles are sore. >> these confirmed which is it i

have? >> tmj. >> three dentists agree with me found no tmj but you find it. do you always find tmj? >> you obviously have a tmj problem. >> why don't three other dentists see it? >> we use objective documentation. if they didn't identify it that doesn't mean you don't have that that means they didn't identify it. >> it takes 4-6 months and costs around 3,000 dollars. >> i went on tv and said he ran a dental mill that ripped people off. he sued me for liable. >> he claimed he didn't at the time tell me to get treatment i damaged his reputation and a jury would punish me now. except now is not the right word. nothing ever happens now in our legal system. every day we invent ways to do

things faster, better, cheaper. lawyers almost never innovate. nothing goes quickly. it almost makes me feel sorry for people who sued me. before trial all those who had written communication and each workshop or seminar included but not limited to your seminars for dentists, lawyers, headache sufferers, attendants amount paid to each attendee the paperwork and delays were endless. he had to wait nearly four years just to get me into court. >> july 24th, 1989, was a night of infamy when he was attacked by 2020 like no individual never got attacked. >> his lawyer got to call me a

liar. he said he never recommended stossel get treatment. i lied about that. >> fortunately my exam was on videotape. the jury could watch it and decide. but that never happened. instead we had lawyer war. his lawyers played a few minutes and made it seem as if he hadn't recommended treatments. my lawyers played parts that showed he did. this happened again and again. three-minute you tell snippets back and forth day after day for two weeks. it was ridiculous. why didn't the lawyers say shut up you are wasting the money. the judge is in on the lawyer's scam. judges are lawyers in robes. they are comfortable with the s system's slow pace. it resembles residual rituals. we get lots of pomp and

ceremony. >> all rise. >> you must stand before the judge appears. we call them honorable whether they are or not. >> honorable. >> honorable judge presiding. >> it is to maintain respect for the law. a court can take away all of my money. in a criminal case take away my freedom. that ought to get them enough respect. it suggests there's magic in law only lawyers can do. in my trial the jury got to meet and decide my faith they decided i did not portre falsely portra him. it revealed he ripped off insurance companies and lied on the witness stand. the court said he had to pay 250,000 dollars to cover my side's legal bills.

yipee, i won. except i didn't win. in our system you lose even when you win because the lawyers charge so much. the money they got hardly covered his costs. they were more than a million dollars. he went on to get even richer. me here is his fancy department. he got this rich with the help of more lawyers. here's his view. accident lawyers paying patients and rogal's charged big bucks to use dubious machines he claims would relieve their pain. finally 20-years after we revealed the insurance scam philadelphia prosecutors nailed him and his daughter for a similar fraud. rogal is now in jail. good, but it took much too long. everything they do takes too long. we need lawyers to keep the peace but you should avoid

using. that's our show. see you next week. obey that ane protestors go home. we'll watch it, huckabee starts right now. >> tonight on huckabee, a week of chaos in ferguson, missouri as police clash with protestors and across the country cops are looking and acting more like soldiers. the militarization of police in america. tragedy on the race track. 20-year-old kevin ward junior struck and hit by stewart. >> it is the culture of car racing and that is a eye for eye culture. >> the governor responds tonight. >> and iraq's prim