to help the driver in you... ...care for the passenger in them. the subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru. i'm megyn kelly. here's sean. this fox news alert, major developments today in the shooting death of michael brown in ferguson, missouri. an independent autopsy revealed the teen was shot six times, including twice in the head. forensic pathologist michael baden said it's too early to tell whether the fatal wound was indicative of brown surrendering to police before he was shot or not. we'll bring in experts to analyze the investigation thus far, but first after riots rocked the streets of ferguson over the weekend, governor jay nixon deployed the national gud to the st. louis suburb to help contain the violence. the city's curfew was lifted earlier today in the advance of their arrival. we turn to fox's own steve

harrigan in ferguson, missouri. >> reporter: sean, in this downtown area of ferg sop where many stores are boarded up, there's about 1,000 protesters marching. the tactics of the police are different tonight, one, they've not allowed any cars into this downtown area. and, two, they've really made sure everyone has to keep moving at all costs. people have to move and walk and march or else they do get arrested. that has thinned out the crowd somewhat. and perhaps an effort to tire people out as well. they're still moving along here for the last couple hours. the mood has changed as it's gotten a little bit darker. we're seeing helicopters fly overhead and the chanting has also changed. earlier it was, hands up don't shoot. and now we're hearing chants, hands up shoot back. a real sense of anger on the streets. and we've been talking to people who have said for a long time

since 1970s there's been a sense that ferguson is a very divided city. >> i went there in the sixth grade and had an incident. and since that time i've always seen the division. you go through that town and you're like, oh, god, i hope ferguson police don't stop me. or you say, people that have businesses in ferguson for a long time they didn't even want us to come in there. >> us? >> blacks. they didn't want us in there. >> reporter: right now we're seeing on the streets highway patrol armed with long wooden batons. the national guard has been deployed, but for the most part they are still around the command center. we have not seen their presence out on the streets here tonight. sean, back to you. >> steve, one question, we watched over the weekend once again molotov cocktails and rocks being hurled at the police officers. obviously no signs of that tonight. do we have any indication where these agitators are coming from, those that are creating the most problems not those that are

peacefully protesting? >> reporter: i think there's a real mix in the crowd here. we have seen a lot of people with their families, but overwhelmingly it's a young crowd with different motivations. we've talked to local people from ferguson who have come out to protest but who also say there is an element that they themselves are concerned about that is a tough group to reason with. and also some concerns too about the damage and violence done in their own neighborhoods. some questioning about how effective that is. sean. >> steve, thank you. in ferguson, missouri tonight. now, earlier today the president delivered yet another statement on the situation in ferguson. now, he told reporters that attorney general eric holder is going to travel to st. louis in the suburbs on wednesday. and he urged the ferguson community to seek understanding rather than violence. he also said there would be no excuse for excessive force by the police against peaceful protesters. here with the very latest details is fox ease own ed henry. he's in studio tonight.

thank you for being with us. there are three major high profile incidents, if there's more, correct me, that the president got involved that also involved race. trayvon martin, he could be like my son, the police acted stupidly in cambridge. and this case. >> interesting today the president said, look, when pressed on this case i'm not going to prejudge the facts. i think he clearly learned something from the first two mistakes. they were boneheaded to weigh-in on ongoing investigations. i think he realizes that. and that's why he was trying to set a different tone today. it was all about let's heal, let's come together. but you can see in the community over the last four or five days the president made a statement late last week along the same lines. people were not listening. i think sending eric holder to the ground that could inflame the situation. on the other hand from the white house perspective they're saying, look, this young man, michael brown, was killed more than a week ago. there's no sign of charges yet. they want to keep the heat on it and make sure there's a grand jury investigation. and they get the facts and get some justice. >> as normally happens whatever

the president will say at a press conference gets torn apart. he said words like i understand the passion and anger over the death of michael brown. he said, you know, that ferguson is rightly hurting, the community over the death of this young man and the potential of this young man and the anguish of the family, et cetera, et cetera. when he says i understand, does that mean he's kind of prejudged it in any way? >> well, you can read into that as you say. on the other hand i also heard the president say, look, you need to treat law enforcement right. they need to be able to keep the peace. and he also said that if you're angry about how african-american people have been treated over the years, you can't undermine the push for justice, he said, by letting your anger spill over into looting and whatnot. so clearly he gets that as well. here's the bottom line, i checked the number, this weekend 11 shootings here in new york city in 24 hours. two dead, 11 wounded. in chicago, president's home city, seven dead, 29 wounded just this past weekend. spade of shootings his home

city, is the president going to chicago or new york? is the attorney general going to chicago or new york? that's why they have a lot of pressure on them to prove that this is not just politics and this is really about getting the facts. >> is eric holder the right figure? i'm not asking for your opinion here, but he obviously -- >> he's the chief law enforcement -- yeah. >> the term cowardly -- that the country's cowardly on the race? >> he's the chief -- he serves at the pleasure of the president. the president has picked him and kept him on the job despite all the controversies, he's the one going. >> ed henry, appreciate it very much. also now as law enforcement attempts to quell the anger of protesters on the streets of ferguson, there are reports that most of the demonstrators are not ferguson residents and they're coming from other parts of the area. carrie picket is joining us. people are buying up gas masks and bullet proof vests to the point where they're sold out in the community. is it that bad?

>> yeah, absolutely, sean. i was talking to one of the store employees today and he said that yesterday morning they sold out about 50 gas masks in the first five minutes when they opened up the store. and at this point they're calling up all of their distributors to try to get more gas masks as we speak right now. at this point a lot of people i'm talking to on the ground are calling up amazon to try to get their gas mask as soon as possible. >> pretty scary. you were there last night. you saw a molotov cocktail being thrown. you saw rocks being thrown at police officers? >> i saw a number of projectiles being thrown from the crowd, one that appeared to be a molotov cocktail. i also saw a flash grenade or a stun grenade that ended up landing about five feet from me, a little bit disturbing. definitely got some tear gas get thrown toward my area. not exactly the funnest thing in the world, sean, but luckily i did have a gas mask that was

good and ready to go. so definitely a very tense night last night, sean. >> thank you so much for being with us. there's newly released video tonight of the new black panther party leading a march in ferguson over the weekend. they were heard yelling death chants at darren wilson, who is the officer involved in this shooting. here with reaction to the chaos is the author of the "new york times" best seller "one nation" dr. ben carson. what do we want? the name of the officer. what do we want? we want him dead. you've heard those chants. your reaction. >> well, you know, this is obviously inflaming the situation. and, you know, a lot of outside agitators seem to have descended on this situation. and i wish they would use that same energy to help us with what's going on in chicago and detroit and new orleans and washington, d.c., where just tons of shootings, murder, violence all the time.

where we have tons of teenage pregnancy. women giving birth, it ends their education. it sends their children into poverty. it continues to cycle of poverty and dependence. these are big problems for our country because we only have 320 or so million people, we're competing on a global stage against countries that have over a billion people. we need all of our resources to be developed and to be developed well. we can't afford this. >> let me ask you, dr. carson, we had seven dead in chicago -- and i'm only picking one city and ed henry brought this up earlier. 29 injured just over this past weekend. now, as i understand it, reverend jackson's from chicago, president's from chicago, why is a case like this garners national attention and ongoing violence in a number of cities, many of which you mention, don't get the same attention? >> because it's politically incorrect to blame the wrong

people. if you have somebody, you know, like a police officer, that's an easy one to blame. but it's very difficult to blame a city council or a mayor that you like -- you know, this is a problem. we have got to start being objective. we've got to stop picking and choosing who the villains are and who the good guys are. and we have to start looking at things objectively. that's the only way that we ever make progress. in particular in the black community i think we have to be honest with ourselves. and, you know, let's go back and think about a time, you know, before the early '60s, tremendous progress that was made by black people in this country when they relied on family and relied on each other and they had faith. then what happened when we started relying on other people to do things for us and to tell us what we're supposed -- how

we're supposed to think and who we're supposed to like and who we're supposed to follow? where has that led? not to a very good place. and we have to think what we're talking about. you say death to the police, try living for 24 hours with no police. i think you'll really find out what a difficult situation is. >> oh, i think that's the first duty of government. and that's to protect its citizenry. let me ask you, there was a lot of anger friday over the release of the video of michael brown involved in this robbery, intimidating this store clerk. you know, the words that i heard a lot of people say, commentators, well, first they assassinated him and now they're assassinating his character. wouldn't this be important in terms of the legal aspect of this? that that might give us some insight into his state of mind when confronting an officer right after a robbery that he was involved in? >> well certainly when it comes to the trial that would be obviously an important piece of

information. and i think it probably would be a very good thing for the authorities to try to expedite justice in this situation because the longer it takes, you know, the more deceives and the more suspicion that people have. so i think it would be possible to get a lot of information out very quickly with a concerted effort. i think that would have a very amill rating effect on the atmosphere. >> the president never called -- to hold back on the release of the tape. you heard the president today. what's your reaction to his handling of this in general? >> well, you know, i'm proud to see that he has learned not to go in and prejudge the situation as he has in other racially-charged situations. so that's progress. i just look at it that way. that's a good thing. >> why is there so much anger, you know? we had graffiti, the only good cop is a dead cop, kill the police, then you have the new

black panthers, what do we want? the name of the officer. what do we want? him dead. why is -- where is all this anger towards police coming from? now, i understand that this is a volatile situation. we don't have all the facts. i wasn't there. you weren't there. most people weren't there. >> sure. >> and i think it's an ongoing investigation. and i would urge people to withhold their judgment until the facts are in and come to an educated conclusion. but there seems to be fairly widespread contempt and anger towards police. why do you think that is? >> well, as far as i can tell there's not a long history of police shootings in that area that i know of. maybe someone can correct me on that. but therefore it seems to me like there's a lot of agitation going on. and, you know, part of the problem -- one of the things i wrote about, you know, in "one nation" is hypersensitivity.

false hypersensitivity, where people come in and they rev people up about all kinds of issues because, you know, someone said this word or somebody did this. and you get people into a frenzy. it's almost like when you were in the third grade and you had that kid who always ran around to someone saying did you hear what he said about your mama and goes to the other one. why do we allow ourselves to be manipulated like this? and i would be very much in favor of asking those people who are agitating what would you like to see happen? there's an investigation that's going on that the legal process has been put into motion. what do you want to have happen that's not happening now? and let's hear a logical cogent response to that. >> all right. i'd also think the issues of selective moral outrage, socioeconomic conditions, we'll talk about as the show goes on. dr. carson, good to see you.

thank you for being with us. >> you too. thank you, sean. coming up next, you'll hear from the eyewitness whose testimony of the brown shooting is being called a "game changer." and law enforcement experts here with the analysis. and later texas governor rick perry has been indicted on two felony charges. tonight he responds in an exclusive interview you'll only see right here on "hannity." that's straight ahead. if you suffer from constipation, you will likely also suffer from gas. introducing new dulcogas, which starts working to eliminate gas bubbles in minutes for effective relief. dulcogas, from the makers of dulcolax- nothing relieves gas faster.

this is a fox news alert. game changing eyewitness audio has been discovered from the background of a youtube video recorded at the scene of michael brown's shooting. and it appears to corroborate the officer's story. let's take a listen. >> how'd he get from there to there? >> because he ran. >> police still in the truck --

he's like, i don't know running. why his body come this way though? >> him and the police is in the truck. he's like over the truck right now. he ran. police got out and ran after him. he's coming back towards -- >> i'm thinking -- >> god rest his soul cause he gone. that's his momma right there. >> the police shot him. >> why isn't somebody helping him? >> bo will respond to that in a minute. as we await the st. louis medical examiner report dr. michael baden was asked to perform an independent autopsy and today he addressed reports about his findings.

let's take a listen. >> in this instance there's no gunshot residues on the skin surface. so that the muzzle of the gun was at least one or two feet away. six bullets struck. and two may have re-entered. there are abrasions around the right side of mr. brown's face, rubbing against the ground. which happens as best we can tell when after the gunshot wounds he fell flat down unprotected and got those abrasions. otherwise no evidence of a struggle. >> all right. joining me now with reaction former d.c. homicide detective rod wheeler and former nypd detective bo deedel. let's go to the conversation recorded and captured at the scene. he describes there's one moment he says but the police -- they were both in the truck. we know that the struggle took place in the police car, because that's where the first shot was fired. and the police story is that

michael brown was going for his gun. that's what they said originally. but he ran, meaning michael brown. the next thing i know he doubled back towards the police and the police had the gun drawn already on him. so doubled back, sounds like he turned around to go back at the officer. >> it seemed like from what you just heard there that he was running back towards the officer. i don't know what happened with the confrontation in the police car. but obviously there might be possibility of an assault on the officer there, maybe punched the officer. we don't know. obviously there was never ever a shooting in this town either. there's never been a shooting in this town with the police. this officer has a pretty clean record. now, as far as this -- >> 100% clean. >> coming back when you look at the autopsy, which i was going -- as a matter of fact i was going over with bernie this morning, if the hands would have been up, the rounds would have hit here. it wouldn't be going this way. so it's consistent with his hands down. so the whole thing about him with his hands up or running

away, i think -- >> so in other words you're going to the eyewitness testimony here. >> yeah. >> which we've heard a few people say, and when i first heard it i said that's pretty damning. >> you see people walking around with hands up, that's one thing. but you have eyewitnesses telling he shot him in the back. that's not consistent with the autopsy. three seconds. three seconds it took that officer to fire off those six shots. >> ron, it seems that everyone's trying to rush to judgment. we don't know the answer here. >> right. exactly. >> it seems this was an open and shut case when i first heard a couple of the witnesses. i'm not so sure based on what i'm hearing from other people and the forensics. what's your reaction? >> it's not an open and shut case, sean. i was in ferguson, missouri, all day friday, saturday and sunday. and i was actually on the street where the shooting took place. and i talked to a lot of people there. and the differences in stories that you hear from supposedly eyewitnesses is really, really startling. the thing i think is so important in this case, sean,

you know, there's so much information coming out from everybody that had nothing to do with what happened that day. and other people who are just, you know, like for example this autopsy report that was released today, and dr. baden is a good friend of mine, but i wouldn't have released that because what happens when you do that it fuels speculation. and you don't have all the information. and we need to wait and get all the facts before we start jumping out there saying what happened, what may have happened, what didn't happen. >> that's the point. don't rush to judgment. >> exactly. >> and let the process -- >> you know, and also i kind of figure it's kind of irresponsible to run that video that quick. if the police have it, you save it for the grand jury -- >> you mean the robbery? >> yeah. the robbery. i'm not interested, but in one respect, rod, when i saw you there friday night i saw thety mull yous going to start -- >> can i -- >> yeah. >> would it not be relevant in

this sense because people jump to conclusions pretty fast. the police are being criticized for not giving their side of the story. everyone's beating them up. does it not go to the relevancy of michael brown and his state of mind and the police officer considering he's just committed a robbery. >> now you have a police officer never shot before, shot six times. what was in his mind? was he fearing for his life? what happened before? what led up to -- my feelings are the cop stopped them in the middle of the street, he didn't know he was wanted for robbery and just possibly the radio run came off and a big guy with that description came up, he saw cigars. i don't know those facts. so it would be very irresponsible for me or rod or anybody professional to really comment until we get the facts. >> one thing to point to maybe the state of mind. again, forensics is going to play a big part in this case. eyewitnesses are play a part. >> ballistics. >> why is there all this anti-cop sentiment out there,

rod? you have the only good cop's a dead cop, the new black panther party chanting what do we want, darren wilson, what do we want, we want him dead. this isn't going on now for since day one really in this story. >> yeah. sean, this is a national crisis. and i've said it repeatedly on this network. this is a national crisis all across america. let me tell you those same people we're looking at right now out there chanting and rioting, i talked to all of those folks, the guys with the bandannas on their faces. i asked them what is it that you want. here's what they told me, sean. they said they want that police chief to go. they want this police officer charged with the murder, the cold-blooded murder of michael brown. and the third thing they want, they want the government to stop turning their backs on them. and i said well what would you say to president obama if he's watching this newscast right now? you know what they all did, they looked at me and said one word, sean. they said good-bye. >> let me ask this question, molotov cocktails are being

fired at the cops -- >> shots fired. >> shots have been fired at them. and a lot of people say they can't show the use of force or we're militarizing our police department. >> i remember the riots we had in 1977, the blackout riots here in new york, five were killed at that time. and they were rioting all over the place. and remember after rodney king 60 innocent people murdered there, you've got to quell this thing, man. you can't sit there and everybody says why do they have an armored truck like that. if you've got molotov cocktails and being shot at, you're going to have equipment to defend yourself. you send radio cars, what are they going to do? break the windows, set them on fire, turn them over. this is norm. my big anger here is why don't they take some of this energy, these leaders, go to chicago -- >> seven people killed, 29 peopleweekend. >> this weekend in new york we had 23 shot in new york. i mean it's horrible. >> it is horrible. and, bo, i would agree with you wholeheartedly. but i must say this, young

african-american males in this country feel like they are being treated like second class citizens. so there is a degree of truth. and there is an understanding as to why they are outrageous so to speak. because they are tired of it and they are saying to america enough is enough. >> you think when we look at the crime statistics, are they unfair? >> no. the statistics are what they are. but then again you have to look at the causes of those statistics, sean. >> i would argue socioeconomic and we've failed our kids in the educational system right off the bat. >> i agree. >> rod, one thing i have to say to you, rod. what's happening in chicago with those young kids that are being killed right and left, where's my jesse jackson, where's my al sharpton? >> they don't relate to them. >> every time i see these kids dead, man. >> yeah. they don't relate to jesse jackson. these young kids don't relate to jesse jackson or al sharpton. >> they said obama hasn't done anything for them. we got to roll. thank you. appreciate it.

still ahead tonight, the attorney for the family of michael brown will join me live to react to the results of the independent autopsy, plus we're going to go back live to ferguson as the protests continue at this very hour. and later a "hannity" exclusive, texas governor rick perry will be here to respond what he's calling a politically motivated indictment. that's straight ahead. you make. it's been that way sincthe day you met.

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this is a fox news alert. it has been only one week since ferguson, missouri, erupted into mass chaos following the death of michael brown. and not surprisingly several high profile individuals have already rushed to the scene. now, take a look at how they've been handling the situation over the past couple of days. take a look. >> i think the national guard is just antagonizing the situation. >> yes. >> yes. >> they're making it worse. i said it's going to make it worse.

>> and so we are going to ask that the national guard back off. >> how can the young folk of the city believe in a system that would try to spit on the name and tags of a young man who hasn't even been buried? i want you to know these parents are not going to cry alone. they're not going to stand alone. they're not going to fight alone. we have had enough. >> michael vick was put in jail for dogs fighting. michael brown was killed worse than a dog. it's just not right. it's not fair. >> so these civil rights figures helping to calm the situation in ferguson or stoking the flames of tension in an already restless community? joining me now niger ines, mike myers and kevin jackson. mike, you have not been a fan of sharpton, but you consider yourself a liberal. >> i am a liberal. and i can tell you this about

the situation in ferguson. this is a failure and crisis in leadership. it starts with the empty suit in chief, barack obama, who racializes every incident between a cop or wan-to-be cop and civilian. >> why don't they talk about chicago? new york? >> it starts with the attorney general who's also another empty suit. this is a guy who has transformed the justice department into a factory of pal ratives directed for just us. and he meaning the justice department, by the way they're still investigating civil rights charges over george zimmerman. these people are not leaders. you have a crisis in leadership. you have an empty suit of a governor who sends to ferguson a black captain of the state highway patrol who then preaches that he is embarrassed by his uniform. and he has to go home to his black son, another racialization. so you have clueless leadership including of the governor and local police authority who also

are clueless because, guess what they did? they did not control the police officers who taunted the protesters and said, bring it, you -- animals. >> kevin, for you what i think is the most incendiary, this is the new black panther party. >> what is his name? >> darren wilson. >> what's his name? >> darren wilson. >> who do we want? >> darren wilson. >> how do we want him? >> dead. >> who do we want? >> darren wilson. >> how do we want him? >> dead. >> it's unbelievable. i say it's unbelievable, it is believable. what's more unbelievable is my cohort here who said he's a liberal and he's actually saying everything that black conservatives and conservatives all over the country are saying. oh, my goodness. but with respect to this, i mean look, sean, if you were to

change the race -- racial element of this particular situation, make it a black cop who had shot a white kid in similar circumstances. you've got to ask yourself what would people be saying? what side of the law then would the black people be on? wouldn't the silence be deafening sort of like chicago and new york this weekend? >> i think one thing that would be happening is people would be saying let's give this cop a fair hearing, maybe there were extenuating circumstances. >> that's the thing, we don't know all the facts yet. niger, let me bring you in and your thoughts. >> i'm going to give your listeners, and always of course a pleasure to be on with my good friend michael and kevin. >> what am i, chop liver? >> and you too, hannity. >> thank you, i appreciate that. >> but i'm going to give your viewers a perspective. jeremiah wright, michelle barack obama, lewis far con, jesse jackson jr. former congressman, jesse jackson sr., what do all

these people have in common? >> chicago. >> they are part of the black elite and power elite of chicago, illinois. and chicago, illinois under their leadership since 2001 some 5,000 killings, murders, have occurred. that's more than double the amount of people killed in afghanistan since 2001. and i see no protest. i see no outrage. >> niger, you're changing the topic. >> barack obama has sent his attorney general, he sent some 50 fbi agents to ferguson. >> niger, you're changing the topic. the issue is not black-on-black crime or however you define it. it's not about garden variety crime. the issue here is whether or not -- >> i think he's saying selective moral outrage. >> of course there's selective moral outrage. there's no morality here.

that's the problem. and liberals and conservatives should be able to see these people are not real leaders. that's why i keep saying they're fake. they are for camera. they are like the reporters who become part of the story. >> michael, you have a president of the united states that was elected -- >> we got to run. >> -- he's been nothing more than al sharpton -- >> but it's actually down to the local level, sean. when you look at the way people representatives in people like this are handling the black community, that's what's appalling. you don't have to go up to barack obama -- >> independent of the local police. >> thank you, guys. tonight we'll go back live to ferguson, missouri, where protests continue to rage at this very hour. plus you'll hear from the attorney for michael brown's family. later, texas governor rick perry was indicted on two felony charges. tonight he responds in an exclusive hannity interview straight ahead.

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gets your filthy voice off her jake! this is a fox news alert. more and more details are emerging about the fatal shooting of michael brown by a police officer last saturday in ferguson, missouri. today, lawyers for the slain teen's family said that a private autopsy which was conducted confirms eyewitness accounts that the 18-year-old was trying to surrender when he was killed. joining me now is the attorney for the family of michael brown, that's darryl parks. darryl, i got to know you very well during the trayvon martin, george zimmerman case. it's great to have you back. i wish under better circumstances. my prayers go out to the family. they lost an 18-year-old kid that's horrible by any definition. you weren't there, i wasn't there, the forensics -- i interviewed michael baden today. what convinces you? because we just had bo on, what convinces you based on that autopsy picture that i'm showing

that in fact his hands were up when he was shot in areas where his head couldn't have been up? >> well, sean, what i believe is the most compelling evidence of the shot to the head that happened, one here at the apex of his head and one right by the hairline. both of those shots go in a back-to-front direction in this case. >> yeah. >> that is very compelling for a 6'4" gentleman to be shot at that part of his body. >> here's what we do know. we do know that michael brown was shot and he was killed. we do know he was unarmed. we do know that he was involved in a robbery. i'm just giving you the facts here, prior to the incident. i would argue that goes to the mindset he might have towards police. not compelling but part of the evidence. we know we have some eyewitnesses that say he had his hands up. we have the autopsy that doesn't show he has his hands up. and we have conflicting reports one guy saying he doubled back towards the cop, meaning that he was coming back towards him

after he had left the car. so we really don't know now, do we? you don't know what happened that night. i don't know what happened that night, is that fair? >> that's not fair. >> that's not fair? >> we have at least three witnesses -- that's not fair. we have three witnesses who say they saw him surrendering. you have three witnesses compared to one. that's pretty compelling. >> okay, well, actually the guy made -- again, the conversation captured at the scene he said the next thing i know he doubled back toward the officer and the officer had his gun drawn. the other thing i would say i'm used to being objective. i don't know what happened yet, if you put back up those autopsy photos. tell me how somebody could be shot the way this man was shot, michael brown was shot, if in fact he had his hands up? how could he be shot in those locations? >> well, first of all, if he had his hands up -- the location for example the one to his body, those shots came from the front. clearly on that diagram. let me also say something real

important, sean, about that diagram. diagram is what we asked dr. baden to show us the areas where the bullet interacted with michael's body. that's all. now, if you were -- once they finish the autopsy that same anatomical chart will have -- markage on it. i'll gi you an example. there's a cut on his arm. there's not identified as anatomical. we were focusing on bullet marks that interacted with his body. >> remember, michael baden said -- and he's one of the most renowned. i think you picked the best forensic pathologist in the country. and he said we don't know now whether his hands was up or not. that's what he said. we just don't know. those were his words. >> i agree with that because one thing he did say -- >> well, that's what i was saying. >> yes. but for example on the external part of his right arm. >> yeah. >> on the chart we used in the press conference, we showed another mark, right?

that's to show it could have came from the back or the front is what we were trying to relate. >> okay. over time we're going to hear from a lot of experts. and my argument is that we shouldn't rush to judgment. when i first heard the three witnesses you referred to, i said that's pretty compelling. i said that sounds pretty devastating towards the officer. then other pieces of evidence come in and i think it makes the case that we all have to wait and see what comes out of this case. does that sound like the right thing to do, wait until all the evidence is in? somebody's assumed innocent until proven guilty. >> that's not what we do in america, sean. we arrest the person with that much evidence. >> all right. we'll have to see -- why do you think it's irrelevant that the police should not have released that robbery video? wouldn't that go to the mindset of mr. brown? >> well, wait a minute. i think what happens here in america we have to keep things decent and in order. we've forgotten about that in america. this family is getting ready to bury a child --

>> you say that but wouldn't that go to the mindset he might have towards an officer. the police say there was a struggle for the gun in the car. >> but there's no reason to release it on the day he released it, sean. >> all right. thank you. coming up next, my exclusive interview with the governor of texas, rick perry, how will he fight this indictment? and are we in america criminalizing political differences? talk about his efforts to defend himself coming up next. wondering what that is?

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this is a fox news alert, late last week, texas governor rick perry was indicted on two felony charges of abuse of power. a texas county grand jury that perry improperly used his office for funding for the state integrity unit, asking rosemary lindberg to resign after being arrested for drunken driving. she refused to go so perry then vetoed millions of dollars for that unit's budget. he's here to explain. governor, let me roll video of miss lindberg. this is the -- >> first, we interrupt "hannity"

we've been watching the situation in ferguson throughout the evening. what happened here is that they've employed new tactics tonight, a new rule, have you to keep moving. there is no standing protests allowed. this worked you may remember an unarmed black man, an 18-year-old man was shot and killed by police more than a week ago. there has been ongoing violence, and demonstrations in ferguson, missouri. tonight there were no violence of any kind. people were obeying orders not is to stand. just minutes ago, the police began a little miniature news conference where the police chief was talking to a number of camera crews, the national news media, and people began to congregate and then, we had this

standoff, which is resulted in the scene you can see here. police on one side, demonstrators on another. now, also different today in ferguson, the governor called m the national guard initially, we're told the national guard would patrol the streets, then we're told the national gaurt was there to guard police head quarters and then, instead, regular police would be guarding. let's listen. they're making announcements. >> for your safety and safety of others clear the roadway now. >> let's get to mike tobin live on the scene. mike? >> you hear the loud sound in the background. a lot of people are leaving as a result. we had a crowd of people in the street. bottles coming over the crowd, mostly plastic, a couple glass bottles. there, you can see the show of

force with the police. riot shields and helmets. counting six of the tactical vehicles here lined up here. the big noise is the l-rad intended to clear streets. so far, people scattered fairly well. and now we're going to see what happens next. jeff? >> mike, it was interesting to watch in developments today. police have been trying to employ different tactics we learned of the tactic, you must keep moving about four hours ago. tonight there is a challenge from american civil liberties union. today, it was ruled police do have the right to keep people moving along. until this moment they appeared to be complying. correct?

>> yes. you didn't have people forming groups. it seems when you get a group piled up like now, and this looks like it's in response to guys they want to clear out of the road. when you get a group that forms up, trouble seems to form out of the group. order comes to get back, get back. and i can't get a look at what the issue is. now. you've got demonstrators trying to square off with police. i want to go into this direction. there is a lot of shoving further north from where the police are. some demonstrators were trying to make a human chain, trying to prevent aggressive demonstrators from creating a clash. so it doesn't have to be within

demonstrators. there, you can see people with the foods on and masks. then, you have one man there becoming so well known, trying to calm the crowd. you've got the ear-splitting noise of the l-rad. you've got people trying to back -- >> designed to clear people out. >> yes. it does have, it's loud and annoying let you know something big and official is coming. and that is what is going on now. one of the affects of the l-rad device, they can use it as a loud speaker to tell people to get out of the way. >> we're preparing for a live hour beginning in three and a half minutes mike just give us a sense. this looks and sounds big, but when you look closely, people seem to be fairly orderly. especially compared to last

night. and out in smaller numbers. >> they're out in smaller numbers earlier in the day. numbers did tend to pick up after night fall. then, after the sun was completely down, you saw the situation change. it gets more aggressive. language and chanting changes. to be a little more aggressive. sometimes, slips over to violence the chant they've done, hands up, don't shoot changes up to hands up, shoot back. you watch that. people do obscene gestures when cameras come around. it changes a bit after the sun goes down and becomes more aggressive. all but one night thus far you had a scene with police showing up here. >> mike, if you could, pan around for us just a bit. give us a scene as we can see

it. i'm watching from the one on the big wall here. and it appears there is large clouds. i don't see pushing and shoving and throwing. >> no and there is a big show of force for the police officers. you're close and you can see trucks in front of you. now, you get on to florssant avenue. you had a larnl concentration of people on the streets. a couple warnings from the loud speaker. people scattered all at once, particularly once that l-rad went off.

and we saw bottles come over the crowd, then police got more aggressive. the people out here on the streets largely scattered. some came back. the street looking empty right now. >> is your sense is that those that spoke from the president and community leaders today on keeping the violence down made a difference this afternoon? and now, into evening? >> you know, if they speak to the majority of the people, looks like we've got someone hurt there. when they're speaking to the majority of people, yeah. they're affected when talking to moderate, the moderates listen. people out here just looking to demonstrate and make sure voices are heard those are the people who will listen. they won't necessarily come out here when it looks like it's going to get ugly. when people show up in this area just to capitalize on an opportunity to capitalize on mob mentality, they show up here looking for trouble, they don't

listen to the leaders. >> understood. many people in ferguson have come out in efforts to cause trouble. >> it's 11:00 on the east coast, 10:00 p.m in ferguson, missouri. we continue coverage of breaking events in that town. there appears to be yet another stand off at this hour between police and the crowds. once again, protesting a shooting death of an unarmed black man. leaders are working to prevent the protest spiring into another night of violence a live look as darkness began falling on the city of 21,000 people. up until the last ten minutes demonstrators remained peaceful in contrast to recent nights. within the last few minutes, the crowd ran into a line of police officers and tensions instant