yeah kebob, one serving. get off your gas and grill with kingsford charcoal. starts now. tonight on can be huckabee". >> this sing the program represents the biggest threat to consumer choice. the administration putting the squeeze on businesses in operation chokepoint. >> you've been in business for a while and all of a sudden the federal government says we don't like what you do. >> that's what happens. and the irs trying to intimidate pastors. church leaders are calling their bluff. >> i always call them back or right back and say thank you for encouraging me. i'm going to be more bold this year. >> plus that's not an answer. >> they face off on politics and american history. ♪

ladies and gentlemen, governor mike huckabee. >> thank you. and welcome to huckabee from the fox news studio in new york city, this is labor day weekend. labor day has a history that dates all the wail back to the 1800s that honor those who toil to build the country into the industrial power that we became. labor unions were formed in those days as an important tool in protecting workers from being exploited and endangered. it's easy to have contempt for modern unions for until reason demands or pay hikes that would make a company unprofitable, but -- workers safety, reasonable hours, decent pay. they were instrumental in establishing a labor force that

worked hard and mare their employers profitable. americans' prosperity and world leader status was the result of shared benefits from labor and management. a worker appreciated is a worker motivated, and those leaders who value their employees and see them as critical to the success of the company, those are wise people. good customer service is usually the reflection of good employees care. employees who enjoy their work are contagious and happy employees, taking care of happy customers. publix supermarkets are strong in the south and southeast, and i love shopping there. employees act like they're truly grateful for their customers. it's a customer-focused culture and stores are employee on the other hand, so the better the employees does, a few years ago delta air lines was in bankruptcy, struggling to be profitable. the passenger satisfaction level was abysmal. then new leadership came in with

a different attitude toward embroilees and a recent passenger survey rated delta number one. you see, management realized that having an adver saeshl relationship with the people who actually immediate the customer and the face of the airline was just not good business. stockholders do better, management does bers, the employees do better. most importantly the customer gets a better experience. recruiting good employees and then training them, treating them well, giving them a stake in the outcome is just good business, when labor and management are partners in the success of the outcome, everyone wins. instead of strikes and work slowdowns, alternatives like binding arbitration make more sense. i agree with fellow conservatives that we need to value the job creators, but we also need to value the job holders, people who create the work usually do take big risk and yes, they deserve big

rewards, but people who do their work, they deserve to be regarded as well. a guy by the name of strain strofak is a z mag in a international. he grew up poor, but he's now a billionaire. he built his company on the concept of fair market enterprise. it's free enter price, but with the added caveat of treating his employees fairly and returning 10% of the profits back to them. you see, having a job is a gift from a good economy, and from an entrepreneur. having a good job is a gift from god. if you are the owner or manager, treat your labor as a valued commodity. if you're a worker, treat management as your partner in prosperity. now, if you want to work but are unemployed, be patient, retrain and don't give up. if you're a slacker, then get a

job, but please don't go to work for a good company. go to one that's already declining, and then you can go down together. earlier this year, the justice department announced a program to crack down on the businesses that the obama administration just doesn't like. the mission is nicknamed operation choke point. the goal is to make it really difficult for businesses deemed high risk to have a bank account, such as pawn shops or lending stores, coin dealers, sellers of pharmaceutical drugs. brian brookman is the owner of a pawnshop in michigan. he bank closed his business account two weeks after it was opened. sandra perfectly own cash express. she is says she got turned down because her company was too high risk. i spoke to these two business owner and to brian wise of the u.s. consumer coalition earlier.

>> let me start with you, heather. you were told that your business was high risk. did they tell you what that meant? >> they rantly be able to explain what that mend, but i have talked to somebody who said they can't complete the compliance that is required to deal with a company such as my company in the money service business. >> so you're not a deadbeat, you haven't had a long history of failing to pay your bills. you doened have a lot of delinquent loans. >> we have an a-plus rating with the abouter business bureau. i've never had a complaint filed against the company since i opened in 1997. so you've been in business a while, now all of a sudden the federal government says we just don't like what you do. >> that's what happened. >> i don't think most of us even know it's possible for the federal government to decide it doesn't like a legal business. you're not running a drug ring, you're not doing anything illegal, you're not going out and busting people's heads with baseball bats, so i assume that

everything you do is on the up and up or you would be in jail. >> we're highly regulated, that -- just to make sure that we are doing everything legally, according to regulation. >> you have a pawnshop in michigan, my gosh, i've shopped at pawn shops for guitars and cameras for years and years. i didn't know it was a high risk business for the consumer. what did they tell you when they came after you? >> they didn't give me any explanation at all. i just got a her from chase, saying by the way, the account you opened two weeks ago, we're going to close that. no explanation. the bank manager had no idea why. she -- i took her the letter, and she came back to me a couple days later and said i can't find anything out, either. >> so even the bank was not aware of why you were being targeted. >> no, sir, no idea. >> this is a pawnshop in small upscale classy community, right

downtown in a business direct that attraction thousands of tourists every year. i mean, i'm just every bit the average guy, you know, trying to carve out my piece of the american pie and support my family. i don't break any laws, i haven't done anything to draw any attention. >> what does it do to your business if they say you can't have a bank account? >> no business can operate without a bank. i have to be able to pay bills and when people buy things from me. nobody really uses cashes these days. >> nobody has any cash, brian. that's why. that's why they're using the credit cards. sherry, same thing for you. what happens to your business if the bank says no can do? >> well, it would be very difficult to run our business without at bank. it would be near impossible. even our third-paper processors, they are having problems, too, because of their client they're

losing bank accounts, and it's a big snowball effect. it's just -- i see it big such a big snowball effect and i wish really. harry reid is our senator there. >> how lucky you must feel. possibly he's doing some good things. he has supported gun ownership. he has supported the pawn industry, and also the short-term lending, but where is he right now? we need him right now to stop this operation choke point. >> have you talked to his office? if you have, what kind of respond? >> after i was on the show, i thought i might have a little more clout. >> of course, after my catty remark, they'll say you defended them. >> brian, you're with the u.s. consumer counsel. i want to ask you about how this is affecting businesses, when we ask the federal government about this, they say, it's just a

misunderstanding. that's all it is. do you buy that? >> no, in fact, i think that was part of their plan all along. this single program represents the biggest threat to consumer choice and freedom this country has ever seen. the fact that the government can pick and choose winners and losers simply based on their political ideology is a threat to the american dream. i mean, these are small business owners that they have done everything right. they've followed all of the rules, and yet because the administration seems to not like their industry, and it's not just their industries, it's gun deale dealers, ammunition sales, it's multilevel marketing, so your amway and cutco knives and other things are being affected. this is a threat to the american dream. you know, we know of a little more that 100 byes right now that have been affected. we know there are probably thousands more that just don't realize because they lost their

baron account, it was due to operation checkpoint. >> i can see this federal government, anyway, this current administration doesn't care for firearms and wishes they could get rid of them. they'll never pass that in congress. if they can't get the injures department to say to a gun store this guy can't have a bank account, he is out of business. >> that's the genius of this program and what makes it so dangerous. the genius is they never went to congress. these are all businesses they have tried to legislate out of the existence for the past 10, 20 years, but because they couldn't do that, they decided they were going to end-run congress and use the president's year of action, as he's talked about to double down on this effort. what we see, you know, just last month, the fdic removed 'list of high-risk merchants. that list of merchants was about 24 different merchants that they had identified as being, you know, ripe for consumer fraud. well, what that was -- that was not a backing off of this

program. that was a doubling down the this program. that was them taking any kind of certainty that the banks had, taking that away, so that now the banks have to be the morality police. >> sandra, do you know of other businesses in your community that have been targeted like you have? >> i really don't know. i do know that a lot of businesses are not aware of what's going on, because i called some businesses, even some gun shop owners. i do know what brian was speaking of, basically what happened, i called the banks that turned me down after i learned that fdic had pulled the list. i still didn't have any love. it didn't make any difference to them. >> same thing? >> none that i'm aware of, sir, but it's important to remember my business pawn shops wasn't even on the list. the only thing i do on the is deal with antique currency, old vintage coins and things,

somehow that's considered high risk. i don't understand why, but -- i would just -- i would just like to see the attorney general come into my store and see why customers and my store and where it's at and what we do, and meet me, and then tell me to my face, well, you're high risk, i need to put you out of business. >> even if you're high risk, so what? that's american enter price. if you don't make it, sfa you don't make it. it's not the federal government's decision to say this guy will make it and this guy won't. my gosh, apple computers would never have existed if they looked at steve jobs in his garage and said -- i'm just outraged by this. i really appreciate you being here. here's what i want to ask. if you're a business owner that's been targeted by this law, or by this rule -- it's not even a law. if you've been targeted by operation choke point, contact us on our forible foible page, had you been abeak show.

we want to hear from you. we want to keep following the show. i've been honest, i've not heard anything about it, people node to know about it, and we're going to help make sure they do. the irs is trying to keep him and other pastors from discussion the pulpit, but he says his's going to keep doing it anyway. we'll have that story when we come back. we'll have that story when we come back. if you're suffering from constipation or irregularity, powders may take days to work. for gentle overnight relief, try dulcolax laxative tablets. ducolax provides gentle overnight relief, unlike miralax that can take up to 3 days. dulcolax, for relief you can count on.

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well, if you thought the irs only targeted the tea party, think again until the irs doesn't want church pastors talking about political matters during their sunday service. my next guest says you bet he's going to talk politics from his pulpit, and he dares the irs to stop him. jim, great having you here. >> good to be with us.

>> two years ago you launched with a number of other pastors pulpit freedom sunday, a sunday in october that you basically let everybody know you're going to stand up and say whatever you want, and pretty much dare the irs to tell you to stop. >> that's because up until 1954 pastors could say anything we wanted. we lost 160 years of pulpit freedom at that point because of the johnson amendment in 1954. the alliance defending freedom came together, and said this is a violation of the first amendment. so they began to gather pastors, who began to say we don't have -- we can say what we want, so pastors would say what they were on pulpit freedom sunday. many of them recorded sermons and mailed them to the irs. >> that's bold. >> i think about 2,000 have gone in, so somebody must be getting saved there. i credible. >> if there's any federal

agencies, they could use a little christian influence, would definitely be the irs. you know, i think one of the things that people don't understand is the pastors have been sort of threatened for many years, better be careful, don't say things that could be political, because the irs will come out to get you. people have just accepted that without thinks when is it the government's job to approve the content of a sermon. >> 50 years ago, i would have said tearing up a baby in the womb is the wrong them. people would say, of course. but now you're being too political. 30iers if i said the practice of homosexuality is -- if i had marriage is one man, one woman people would say of course. today, they would say pastor you're going too political. what we used to call biblical, now we cal political. and the entire goal of this law, what has unfolded over these

years, varsual groups -- don't you dare preach on anything, so it drives the gospel out of the political arena. >> has any church ever been actually shut down or any pastor ever been arrested. >> in 60 years of this law there's not one church that's ever lost its status. there is one church that lost the tax-exempt letter for a day and went right on after that, but there's no church that's been shut down the entire time. if the irs contacts a church, the church will obvious times we're sorry, we're sorry, and the pastor is all intimidated. if the church will lawyer up with people who know the law, the irs will back down after a couple years and say we'll close the case. it would run of some legal fees, but they'll back down. one very liberal church lawyered up, and the government backed down. >> how many pastors do you

expect will participate october 5th. >> i hope thousands. theorem still signing us. go to pulpitfreem done.org, and we encourage parisianers to ask them to be that bold. a pastor can endorse or oppose a candidate. we're not saying what they talk about, no governmental intrusion at all in the pulpit is the case we are making. >> when i think about the fact that the government might evaluate either your seruming or any other pastor, it is a shocking thing. alliance defending freedom, a great organization that's been at the forefront of a lot of liberty cases, i get the impression that you would -- to get this settled once and for.

>> there's a number of eighth yirs organizations involved in a lawsuit recently that use use it to bim a date i myself has received letters myself, don't you you dare, i always say thank you for encouraging me, i'm going to be more bold this year. but a lot of pastors don't necessarily do that. there's pastors who think they can't register people to vote, they can't speak on abortion, can't speak on marriage. a whole host of topics. they think they cannot, because these groups have been so good at intimidating, bullying pastors. the result is pastors back away from speaking with what the scripture says about national and community life. that's the tragedy. that's one of the reasons we're in the situation we are in. >> pulpitfreedom org, jim, thank

you for being here. up next, another example of the government interfering with a private business. a couple that owns a farm gets fined you thoughs for sticking to their deeply held principles of faith. that is, that marriage is between a man and a woman. you'll hear about them, next. twd a woman. you will hear about them next. you know.... there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious and an excellent source of fiber to help support regularity. mmmm. these are good! the tasty side of fiber. from phillips

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[ male announcer ] osteo bi-flex, that's why i always choose the fastest intern.r slow. the fastest printer. the fastest lunch. turkey club. the fastest pencil sharpener. the fastest elevator. the fastest speed dial. the fastest office plant. so why wouldn't i choose the fastest wifi? i would. switch to comcast business internet and get the fastest wifi included. comcast business. built for business. my next guest have owned and operated liberty ridge farms in upstate new york for over 25 years. besides growing blueberries and razz perrys, they also open their farm for berry picking and festivals. they also host weddings and receptions in their barn. they also believe the definition of marriage is the union between a man and a woman. so when a same-sex couple

contacted them, they respectfully decline. earlier the, they were fined $13,000 ruling their decision is a violation of the human rights law. robert and cynthia gifford join us this day, and also with us is their attorney james traynor. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having us. >> i was stunned when i heard this. you have a right, i thought, to say that you have specific convictions and beliefs, and somebody wanted you to host a same-sex wedding that goes against your own tick lay faith and belief. was there anything in particular that socked you about the action that was taken against you. >> yes, the biggest shock was that i thought we had freedom of religion in the country, and that the first amendment of the constitution states that, and from the decision that the hearings -- the division of

human rights made, they never took into account our constitutional right. >> you know, robert, i'm sure that the lesbian couple that wanted to get married told everybody, and it's gone out to the mass media, these giffords, they hate gay people. do you hate galer gay people? >> you treat everyone with respect. we don't hate anybody. >> you've had events at the place where you've had people who are gay. it's not that you have shut them out, but drew the line at the point of a wedding of a same-sex wedding. we asked the nyclu for a statement. they said all new yorkers are entitled to their own religious belief, but businesses cannot sdrim fashion on sexual orient station than they can based on race or national origin. >> you are the attorney for the giffords. is this discrimination? >> it's not. it's never been about

discrimination. it's been about the religious beliefs of the giffords and their right not to be compelled to host a ceremony that violates their religious beliefs in their own home and in in their backyard. it's much bigger than just this two to three-minute telephone conversation. unfortunately this is not an isolated incident, and it's happening all around the country. people are being forced to choose between their business and their faith. >> no one should have to go through that. >> robert and cynthia, did you have a lot of response from the xhurcht proor con? what did you hear from people when this became news that, you know you want we're not going to have a wedding of a same-sex couple. >> initially it was a lot of negative, but i think a lot of it is not about the marriage, it

really is about our constitutional freedoms. no business should be subjected to making a decision, or no american should be subjected to deciding whether they lived their life with their beliefs, or that they have to remove themselves from the business that they're in. >> a lot of people are wondering what happened to america while we were all sleeping and not looking? it yookd to be religious liberty was something we appreciated and protected. i hope people in this country will realize it is under assault. thank you for being here, it's a pleasure, and we'll by following your story. one is an oscar-winning actor focusing on making sure americans learn about civics. another a big critic of the administration. they both love america. they have different ideas on how to make it better. they will join us next. ove amer vo: this is the summer.

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live from america's news headquarters, iraqi troops, and kurdish forces break a six-week siege. the offensive beginning at dawn today, an iraqi army spokesman saying forces entered the town today, fighting continues in surrounding villages, about 15,000 shiite turkmen have been surrounded since july. meantime german,saying it would send arms and armament to kurdish forces. report of libya. militants now claim to control a residential compound at our embassy in tripoli. it was evacuated more than a month ago. libya is pleading for international help. now back to "huckabee."

an unresolved issue that's been front and center on the headlines is the immigration crisis in our southern border. i was recently joined by founder of the dreyfuss initiative rich article dreyfuss, and danesh desizo for an interesting discussion. >> i would like that we all believe that america should be a welcoming place, and thank god wily in a country that people are trying to break into, not break out of. but are our leaders sensitive enough to the issue of balancing the legal aspects and the humanitarian? >> i would say that we're not being told enough about either side of this issue for us to be informed enough to have a real opinion. i do think that there's a kind of ethic in the country, which

is on the side of compassion, and when you're talking about children, you have to be slightly more compassionate than normal, but our newspapers and our schools don't instruct us anymore in what the reasons are for these things to happen. so in fact, i have to say i have no opinion about a current event, because we're not taught how to study them. >> interesting perspective. danesh, you are yourself a immigrant, saw this from a different perspective, but you came legally. when you see the issues were seeing on the border, which basically i don't think we have much of a border these days, how do you react to it? >> well, i agree with richard dreyfuss, that the great puzzle here is, why now? tens of thousands are mysteriously showing up on the border. we call them refugees. they're not refugees, because

that's somebody who is caught up by a tyranny in a foreign country or some sort of revolution that's causen an exodus. none of that is happening in south america. it's the same as 10 or 20 years ago, in fact most of the governments are democratic. i think what can be explained is by looking over here. our political leadership has been signaling that it's not serious about locking the burdener. moreover it wants to give amnesty to law breaks, so pretty soon the word go ahead out if you show up with kids with outstretched arms, it has people who have compassion, it's going to be hard for them to say no. so i fear that the obama administration is exploiting the goodwill and decency of the american people to make a political point. i think it's different when we're talking about kids verse talking about people from the drug car tells, criminals, potential terrorists.

do you have any idea. i know you want you don't really have an opinion, but i can't imagine you don't have an opinion. how do we make the distinction between the good guys and the bad guys if we don't check them when they come to the door? if we don't even have a door? >> well, if we don't check them, that means we don't check the history of the region. to say that 20 years ago is the same as now, we had gangs killing families and people worked against those gangs through their fathers who were then killed, and it took 20 years for people to realize that these kids were on their own, and they had better get the hell out of there. but it's not that it's a different situation up here. it's the same situation that elf -- or they have learned how to deal with differently. and i admit, you know, we're not supposed to take care of all the problems of the world. we are not, but when children

show up at our borders and turn -- and we want to turn them back, to what? to the people who raped their sisters and kill their brothers? >> a lot of the crime that happened to these kids were when they made the journey. they were abused by the kyle joes who made a lot of money bringing them to the u.s., i think people are mad at their government, not the kids. i don't blame people for coming here. i blame the government -- >> i have nothing but compassion for the people who want to come off. if we lifted the curtain half the people would come over here. my point is, look, there's a process, we're a very generous company. we let in 800,000 to a million people legally. i understand your plight, there's a line and there's a process, follow the pros and you'll become a citizen.

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his book has sold 2 million editions. >> his history teacher, mr. curbman is teaching your son in columbus was alive today, he would go on trials for crimes against humanity like mill loss vich. >> it's not just my teacher. it's in my history book. we're back with richard dreyfuss and manesh. i don't know of anybody who's been more outspoken saying we don't know our history very well. you've seen the film. what is your reaction to danesh's film that tries to present a different side of america? >> well, actually, it has a title that says "america, what would the world be like without her?" and it never addresses that question. what it does is to do a very traditional overview of

america's past and say, well, other people had slavery, and other people had capitalism, and other people had thievery. it never addresses the issue of what did we do about these things? >> i think it did, though, richard. i think it did. one of the points that i complimented danesh on was that he said we were the only nation that addressed slavery from within. we didn't have a country come in and take us over. we addressed it, we fixed it. women's rights, we fixed it. >> excuse me one second. >> go ahead. >> excuse me. the problem nowadays in america is that we're actually expected to understand american history from sound bites and from chapter headings, without going into the chapter. the fact is the united states' civil war was fought for slav y

slavery, but it was begun for union. iffed asked the northerner to fight for slavery at the beginning of the war, they would have sat at home and said no. it took them three years to little to the point of the moral level of fighting for slavery. that's a complex difference between we fought for slavery. or again slavery. what danesh is doing is trying to defend against any mistakes. we didn't do any mistakes that other people didn't do. that's not an answer. an answer is -- >> do you think you avoided mistakes? >> i was trying it make two points. first, tally slavery was not ended first in america. the british ended slavery before we did, and the french as well, so there weren't 78 slavesly. the difficulty was slavery was critical to our economy, driving the industrial revolution. we were the only country to fight a great war, and emerson

this is not the rely lose of the oppress oppressed. he said the northern boys who died on the battlefield, died to secure for the slaves the freedom, but the slaves were not in a position to secure for themselves. that is to the moral credit of america. reform in america is always a going back to the principles of the american revolution. i'm not saying we didn't do wrong. segregation was specifically a an american wrong, but when martin luther king said here's my promissory note, who wrote it in thomas jefferson. so the civil rights movement would not had been possible had it not been for the principles of the american revolution itself. >> i don't want to be called into a partisan discussion, because i am not a partisan i'm neither a democrat or a republican, a liberate or a conservative. i look to the constitution of the united states. and i would say the most mysterious thing about me being

on this show is this book is called "america, what would the world be like without her?" and it never answers that question. it never pose illustrates -- >> i'll answer it right now. the world from the dawn of humanity was driven by what i would call the conquest ethic. people got land and wealth by taking it from somewhere else. america had the ethic of wealth creation. if the world didn't have america, the conquest ethic would return with a vengeance, the chinese, the russians, they are using wealth creation, but they believe in conquest. if it wasn't safe for the u.s. navy, countries would be unsafe. the world needs america now, as it has in the past. >> i wish we could continue the discussion. hopefully we can another time. i love both of you. you have great perspectives, and it's a delight to have you. thank you for joining us. the stars of the upcoming

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well, we have talked a lot on the show about the popularity and success of faith based films across america. we have talked about it for the last year or so. i hope the trend continues. we have a brand new movie coming out called "the song" it opens in theaters in september. >> you ever feel like you write your own songs? i will give it to you. >> what if he takes him away? >> why? because he doesn't like what you are doing? is look at the world, jed. you like what he is doing?

>> here to perform the title track of the film stars allen powell and katelyn nickel thomas. great to have you here. >> glad to be here. >> one of the things i hope the audience realizes is it is important for people to come out and see films like this especially on opening weekend. it is a great film, but secondly because the best way we ensure we have quality faith positive films is to make sure they are big hits at the box office. hollywood can't ignore that. they can't ignore you either. we are going to do the title track from the film. hope people will love it enough that they will go see t"the song."

♪ ♪ i've been waiting for you to come along ♪ ♪ seeing notes on the page provide the song ♪ ♪ had a whohole in my heart ♪ ♪ faith so strong ♪ i need a woman like you could take me on ♪ ♪ there's a time for us a handy vine ♪ ♪ the waiting was worth it now you're my wife ♪ ♪ we've been taking our time doing this right ♪ ♪ tonight i'm not gonna just kiss you good night ♪ ♪ you are the song my heart sings ♪ ♪ wait love i want you to know

we are making love deeper than our bodies ♪ ♪ you are listed on my soul ♪ your eye' like the sun ♪ the touch of your skin consumes me ♪ ♪ you shine like the sun forever ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ oh ♪ oh ♪ oh ♪ love is the power of you ♪ oh ♪ oh ♪ oh ♪ oh ♪ love is the power that heals (applause) >> thanks to hal len and katelyn. i hope you will catch the song when it is at a theater near you.

that's it for tonight. hope you have a great labor day weekend. from new york this is mike huckabee. good night and god bless. ♪ perfect timing. we're offering our best-ever pricing on mobile plans for business. run the numbers on that. well, unlimited talk and text, and ten gigs of data for the five of you would be... one-seventy-five a month. good calculating kyle. good job kyle. you just made partner. our best-ever pricing on mobile share value plans for business. now with a $100 bill credit for every business line you add.

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>> it is a reference to >> found dead of a prescription drug overdose in a florida hotel suite. february 8th, 20007. 30-year-old anna nicole smith had smashed through life like a human hurricane. >> if i ever record an album i want this guy to produce mine, make