remember, mad as hell segment will resume next week. again, thanks for watching us tonight. ms. megyn is next. se remember, the spin stops here. we're looking out for you. breaking tonight, what could be a key development in the effort to track islamic state terrorists being recruited inside the united states. as we learn of a hunt for a mystery man who may have been spreading a dangerous message in once again a minnesota mosque. welcome to "the kelly file" everyone. i'm megyn kelly. the shocking report broke just hours ago. the youth and family center reportedly calling the police this summer asking them to remove this man here, a 31-year-old with a deeply troubling background who mosque leaders suspected of spreading radical islamic ideology. this is a community already on edge. we learned last month that two young minneapolis men died while

fighting for isis. and they're terrorists in iraq and syria. and they're not the only ones. now there's a missing 19-year-old minneapolis woman. she also reportedly attended that very same mosque. she too is believed to have joined the terrorists. tom lieden is in minneapolis where he broke this story. thank you for joining us tonight. what do we know about this man, emir -- >> megyn this may be the guy that can connect the dots for us here in minnesota. he was known to hang out at the family center, one of the largest mosques here in the twin cities. he had no job yet he always had money. but in june the mosque kicked him out. police report says the mosque was concerned about him interacting with tear youth. the director tells he was heard profetizing a radical ideology. so they blew the whistle on him. some of the 15 that traveled

from the u.s. to syria as you mentioned to fight for isis including a 19-year-old girl, some of them attended. and we learned a family member even identified him as a recruiter. here is the fascinating back story on him. in 2007 he was arrested in kenya after leaving a terror training camp in somalia. the fbi thought he was al qaeda. we were talking about al qaeda, not al shabaab. they interrogated him some 30 times. he was shuffled between jails in kenya, ethiopia, the so-called rendition. after three months they dropped him back into the u.s., native new jersey, without any criminal charges whatsoever. the aclu filed a lawsuit on his behalf which was dismissed a couple months ago. but in that lawsuit an interesting nugget. he claims the fbi even tried to turn him into a government informant by promising to take him off the no-fly list. which leaves a lot of people here wondering, megyn, if this is a recruiter for isis, is he an informant for the fbi, is he

both? no one seems to know. the fbi won't comment on our story. and we have no idea where this guy is tonight. >> has he been seen in any other mosques in the area do we know? >> that's a good question. in fact, with the director at alpha ruk told me is, no, we don't know if he has been found at any other mosques. but the director says they're puzzled. they don't know why this guy they've had problems with, they've called the police on him, they don't know why the fbi hasn't arrested him and don't know why other mosques aren't on the look out for him or filed a no trespass order. we do know the local police department, bloomington, a suburb here in the twin cities, they gave his name and all their information to the joint terrorism task force. we have no idea what happened after that. >> wow. great reporting, tom. thank you so much. tom lyden everybody. joining us buck sexton, former cia officer and former nypd intelligence specialist.

how does a guy interrogated more than 30 times by the fbi get brought back to the united states. who brings him back here? >> the truth is there might not have been a criminal case they could prove. that's why they had to release him back on to the streets. he's a u.s. citizen. if they had a case, one would assume they would have brought it. this is emblemmatic of the very case we have here. radical views direct support for jihad in rhetorical terms. that's not necessarily illegal and hard to prove when it goes beyond the bounds of what would be considered legal if you were going to give support to a terrorist group. not just here this month, this is happening around the country. what you're hearing in the news about recruitment for isis is the tip of the iceberg. it's a much broader problem than anybody realized. >> isn't this exactly what we asked mosque leaders to do after 9/11? pay attention, listen, alert the authorities if you hear someone getting radicalized? we talked about this after the boston marathon bombing as well.

so this mosque does it. they call the police. they say we're worried about this guy. he's talking about jihad and radical islamist ideology. they say we have no patience for this. he is trespassing. they want him arrested. it doesn't happen. and now we've lost him. i mean, buck, this is the kind of thing that outrages people. and if this guy does something really bad, people are going to wonder who missed it. >> at this point he may be exhibiting -- >> that's first amendment speech. >> that's not enough to hold him, to detain him. yeah, mosques sometimes do point out these individuals that are violent and extremist. but they can still use these individuals, spiritual sanctioners at the nypd intelligence division, they can still use the mosque as a recruit k ground. they find the disaffected people, somebody angry and speak about want to wage war against israel and the united states. you don't have to just talk

about this in rhetorical terms, i'll put you in touch -- >> they didn't want him exposed to their young people. >> exactly the kind of recruitment you'd want in that situation. minds easily molded toward jihadization, which is also a term we used to use. very difficult to catch people in the process frommin doctrine nation into a jihadization. into actually taking action. >> and the problem is we have free speech rights, freedom of exrights in this country, if he was just offering his views on it, that's probably why the aclu stepped in. looks like a lawsuit was filed on his behalf by the aclu and low and behold now we've lost track of him. we don't know where he is. >> the ones we're finding out about, megyn, are the ones that have bad operational security. they're blabbing about how they're going to fight with isis, they're doing something along the way many more aren't making mistakes. getting on a flight the u.s. doesn't know about and, bam, all

of a sudden they're jihadis. >> good to see you. we're going to talk about that monday night. a man from boston also suspected with ties to the terror group isis. possible links between this man and other americans believed to have joined the ranks of jihad. our chief intelligence correspondent has those new details. >> thank you, megyn. federal investigators with abousamra may be living in syria. based on new intelligence hfs added to the fbi's most wanted list. he has a college degree in computer studies and he once worked for a telecommunications firm. while we don't know he played a videos of these two journalists, he certainly had the skills. court documents show abousamra is linked in with a close circle of americans among the first to create the digital jihad and join the ranks of al qaeda.

daniel convicted on federal terrorism charges in 2007 and his close friend who also works with al qaeda in iraq, the forerunner of isis. and because more americans like abousamra may be getting involved, analysts say on this 9/11 the risk of a lone wolf attack is higher. >> i think that the jihadist right now have more angles, more ways of attacking us than they have at any time since 9/11. when you look at the geographic footprint, they're now fighting at least 11 insurgencies around the world. >> the president's decision to tackle isis with the same strategy used against the al qaeda affiliate in east africa means the u.s. government will heavily rely on drones and the targeting killing of its senior leaders, megyn. >> thank you. governor mike huckabee with me now. governor, this is a pattern we're seeing out of one city, several people being recruited to go over and join the jihad. what can be done to stop it or more importantly to top them

from coming back into the united states? because so far it sounds like those efforts are being resisted. our president hasn't pushed for them the way we saw david cameron do this week. >> that's the problem. they could come across the southern border where nobody's going to be there to stop them. when we really need to get frightened is some kid that grows up in a baptist church, goes to college in the bible belt and gets radicalized, but that's already happened. carlos bledsoe, recruited by the local mosque that everybody thought was moderate, sent him to yemen, he came back and on june 1st, 2009, he shot an army private in little rock, arkansas. terrorism is already alive. but you know what the fbi called that? they didn't say it was an act of terrorism. it was just a crime. so if we knew how many things going on in this country were terror, it'd scare the daylights out of us. >> is it because of a reluctance to call radical islamic jihad what it is? >> it's very much that. there's a political correctness

that pervades this administration. they don't want to say that it's actually radical islamic jihad. but that's what it is. and we have to be honest about it or we can't defeat an enemy that we won't even define and clearly identify. >> we've run into this before balancing our first amendment rights, our bill of rights, with desire to be secure. when you look at mosques, like this one mosque to its credit in minneapolis called attention to this man. for all we know the reporter pointed out maybe he's been recruited back by us and working as a double agent. let's hope. let's hope he's on our side. but the point is it all starts in these cities looks like in some of these more radical mosques or with these radical players. we have no rights to go in there and start snooping around. >> and we don't want to go snooping around. we don't want to lose the first amendment. but what we do want is a responsible government that seals our borders, understands who's being radicalized. they have to have some intelligence gathering. they're so busy worrying about

my phone calls and your phone calls and getting all of our e-mails, we've made the haystack so big it's hard to find the needle. >> when you look at our poorest border down south right now and calls for possible presidential action to allow this, you know, to be even more porous or grant citizenship for folks who have crossed over. american citizens already abroad trying to get back in with u.s. passports, does it change your view on what we should be doing? >> it is my view that we have to secure the borders. we need to know who's coming in, who's going out. and have they done something while they're there overseas that really should concern us, like learning how to shoot an rpg at maybe a passenger airplane coming off the runway. these are the kind of things that americans need to be fearful of 13 years after 9/11. it's as if we haven't learned a heck of a lot in 13 years. >> right now we literally have to worry about american passport

holders, never mind people who don't have passports who are coming in through the southern border, which is a fear that was specifically identified by the chairman of the joint chiefs. good to see you, governor. >> thanks, megyn. >> even with these growing reports of americans signing on for jihad, did you know that being a member of a terrorist group is not enough to get your passport revoked? did you know that? that investigation just ahead. and up next, remember the college professor who suggested that most of the victims on 9/11 here in the twin towers got what they deserved? ward churchill just sat down with yours truly to talk america, terror and what's going on overseas right now. we're going to air the full thing next week. but we'll give you a sample next. >> you yourself poured salt in the wounds of the victims of 9/11 and their families. so how can you claim the moral high ground when it ♪

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so how can you claim the moral high ground when it comes to causing pain, causing destruction, when you at the most vulnerable moment did the very same thing to them? >> which is exactly the point again. this is done day in, day out -- >> you're pointing to somebody else. i'm talking about you, professor. take responsibility for your own actions. >> my responsibility is to do exactly what i did, which is show you what it feels like. you're too dense to get it. okay. but i would assume that there are people out there who are not including some victims' family members i might add. >> what about them? >> i got communications from them, and i also have them on file saying, yeah, i get it now. >> i'm sure they think you're a peach. did you have to be so glib about it? did you have to be so callous? >> they don't think i'm a peach. maybe they do. i wouldn't know. what they did is understand the point. >> did you have to be so glib about it? >> joining me now the creator of

the documentary film "america" who has also interviewed ward churchill at length and joined me at the conclusion of that interview for a debate with the professor. thanks for being here. and so ward churchill came under fire in this country because on the day of 9/11 with the bodies still smoldering he called the victims in the twin towers little ikemans comparing them to a murderous nazi, remarks he continues to standby to this day. and ward churchill's thoughts about america and terror are relevant as we go into the 9/11 mark this year, 13 years later. why? >> because there are, megyn, people all around the world who wish ill on america. and some of those people, particularly some of them in the middle east, would like to blow us up. they'd like to destroy us. now, the question becomes are they to blame for that or are we to blame for somehow causing them to feel this way and causing them to behave this way?

and there's a whole school of thought in this country, very influential represented by ward churchill, he's kind of a dramatic example of it, who basically argue that ultimately it's our fault. it's our fault for what we do. and it's also our fault for what they do. we have to take the blame. and we have to in a sense contain ourselves, not block them. >> why is it relevant what this man thinks even when it comes to a subject like that? does he speak for a larger segment of the population in terms of his influence? >> yeah, you know, on the face of it. you've interviewed now bill ayers and now taking on ward churchill. on the face of it these guys are extremists. some people might say why are you featuring these extremists. the reason is that the extremists on the left do not occupy the same position as extremists on the right. on the right if you have some skinhead or some ku klux

klansman, that guy has zero influence on the republican party, zero influence on conservati conservatism. but on the left these who make claims like america is the evil, america is the force for genocide. they are in a sense a moral conscience of american progressivism. they won't say we deserve 9/11, but the idea that america's the bad guy, that's something they routinely teach in the schools. and that's why guys like bill ayers can teach in colleges and universities, they can write textbooks. they're completely respectable on the american left. and it's not until you put them under the gun and put them under scrutiny that they are for the first time often in decades held directly accountable for what they do and what they say. >> that's where it is. it's it. because they have power and did for years in the field of academia. and they influence the next generation coming up. and it becomes an echo chamber between the other professors and

themselves. i am very much looking forward to showing the viewers this shocking interview that i want to tell the viewers because at times it's hard to watch what he says. but we're going to air it in a couple parts. and then denesh will come on and this is the best part where the debate between you and ward about what america is and isn't. we'll have that for you next week. great to see you. >> pleasure. well, since professor churchill suggested that america somehow deserved the terror attack on 9/11, we wanted to know if he still thought we deserved to be attacked today. we asked. watch. do you believe the united states ought to be bombed? >> i think the united states by its own rules is subject to being bombed. >> you can't answer the question. >> yeah, i have answered the question. >> yes or no, do we deserve to be bombed? >> if it does not comply to law, it opens itself up to it, bombing that is. it opens itself up to having

done to it everything it does to anyone else. >> why can't you answer honestly yes or no? do we deserve to be bombed? just say it if you think it's true. >> his answer and much, much more monday night 9:00 p.m. eastern in a "the kelly file" exclusive. tune in, set your dvrs, join us. we've been telling you about the growing number of americans traveling to wage jihad overseas, but did you know being a member of a terrorist group is not enough to get your passport revoked? i mean, what? don't you feel like if you don't pay your parking tickets they can take away -- terrorist group? that's not enough? watch what we dug up on that next. plus, the state department versus bill o'reilly round two. >> when the anchor of a leading cable news show uses quite frankly sexist, personally offensive language, i have an obligation and i think it's important to step up and say

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being involved in terror groups. listen. >> but it is abhorrent that people who declare their allegiance elsewhere are able to return to the united kingdom and pose a threat to our national security. >> so the state department was then asked if the u.s. was also considering a measure to revoke the passports of americans who join terror groups. spokeswoman jen psaki said there was no new push underway because the u.s. has long had the capabilities to cancel passports of americans who plan to do the country harm. but in those cases the state department would have to consult with lawyers. when she was pressed specifically about americans who team up with terrorists, she said this. >> is joining or fighting for a designated terrorist organization a something for which you can automatically lose your passport -- your passport can be revoked? >> well, again, this is information that we would have to consult with -- >> i understand. >> -- legal authorities on it.

it's not as black and white as that. >> but apparently it is that black and white. because when the question was posed to marie harf, it went like this. listen. >> simply being a member of a designated foreign terrorist organization isn't grounds? >> it does not automatically mean your passport will be revoked. that is correct. >> so for now americans who have joined isis, and there are many, could easily be allowed to get on a plane or ship and come home. megyn. >> thank you, trace. joining me now with reaction, tom mcinerney retired lieutenant general in the air force and fox news contributor. i don't understand how you can come right back into the united states just because you have a passport if you're a member of isis, general. >> i am too, megyn. i cannot believe this if this is in fact true. and i understand that michele

bachmann is about to put in new legislation, a bill that would change this. but let's look at it this way. if you were a member of a terrorist group, you are aiding and abetting the enemy. aiding and abetting the enemy is treason against our constitution. so it would seem to me that automatically even without having a trial that your passport should be revoked. automatically. >> period. right. that's the key. automatically. because they talk about how the secretary of state he's got discretion, he's got the ability to revoke passports, you know, depending on the circumstances. why is it a discretionary thing? you're part of isis, it's done. >> megyn, that's been part of our problem. we don't know our enemy we're fighting. sun su said know thy enemy, we are fighting radical islam. an ideology i've said before in this program that is as evil as

naziism, fascism and communism. let's look at it that way. we wouldn't let nazis in world war ii come in, and we had americans with passports that were nazis. they were immediately arrested or tried or whatever. the fact is is that's the way it ought to be today. >> but the problem, general, is that if you were a member of the nazi party, that was identifiable. and if you are a radical jihadist, it's not necessarily identifiable. the members of isis don't run around with carrying cards and so we're going to get into a situation where we start saying you're out, you're out, you from minneapolis went over there to syria and now you've been in iraq, you're suspected so you're out. the guy's going to hire the aclu and file a lawsuit and say i had relatives in syria, i wanted to study the quran. >> well, that's our challenge. and that's why we need to have legislation that clearly delineates that, that you don't go to syria to study the quran and be a member of a terrorist group. and so there probably will be

more compelling evidence that will have to support that particular position. but we are in a very gray area. and i think that we've got to get it corrected quickly or we're going to have more cases like major nadal hasan who still charges against him were workpla workplace violence. and he's yelling out alleluia akbar. we have a problem and you're spot-onto highlight it so the american people can see howry dick louse this is. >> general, good to see you. >> thanks, megyn. after two failed attempts the president tried to define his strategy for fighting the islamic state terror army today. we'll show you the results of that upcoming. plus, see why the death of joan rivers has now spar

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well, after two failed attempts, the president again today tried to define his strategy for fighting the islamic state terror army, or isis. and this time he delivered a message that some said was clear, strong and decisive. but there were a couple of key things he did not say. chief white house correspondent ed henry just filed this report. >> good evening, megyn. it took the president three news conferences and eight days, but he finally got there in terms of putting together a coherent message about what he wants to do to battle isis, heeding the talking points at a news conference today here in wales again and again saying he wants to destroy and dismantle the militants. bottom line there was no mention about not having a strategy anymore. no mention at all about how he believes that he could make the terrorists a manageable problem, as he suggested a couple of days ago. now the big question after moving forward is does he have a strategy to achieve the goal of defeating and dismantling isis?

bottom line is republicans say he made a big mistake in recent months by not going beyond the border of iraq into syria to hit the terror training camps that isis has set up. listen. >> you can't contain an organization that is running rough shot through that much territory, causing that much havoc, displacing that many people, killing that many innocents, enslaving that many women. the goal has to be to dismantle them. >> and isis really has grown stronger because we helped to create a safe haven for them. or president obama did rather. >> a u.s. official tells us tonight that on the sidelines of this nato summit the president helped put together a coalition with nine other nations to provide humanitarian and security support to battle isis inside iraq. still no coalition yet though to battle those militants inside

syria, which is seen as being critical of course. to do that the president says he's now sending secretary of state john kerry to the mideast to try and rally arab nations to this coalition. bottom line is that's an effort by the president to show he's getting serious about battling these terrorists. but first before leaving wales the president decided to visit prehistoric stonehenge. the commander in chief saying he simply wanted to scratch it off his bucket list. megyn. >> ed, thank you. joining me now with more, tucker carlson, founder of the daily caller and columnist for usa today. kirs ten, let me start with you. he's been taking a beating all week for the way he's handled this and the mismanagement. do you think he can convince the skeptics today? >> well, i think it's hard when you watch this evolving narrative on it because a problem and frankly a crisis that's been going on for a while. it's a little concerning that he didn't come out as strongly as he did, you know, ultimately

come out saying he's going to dismantle them, degrade them, go after them in the way we've gone after al qaeda. and so i think that it's good that he's gotten to this point. but when you have him only a few days ago sort of talking about them in a complete lly differen way, i think it raises the question of where he really is and is he going to continue to evolve or devolve. >> tucker, we like to parse language and go through the words day by day and see how they've changed. but what truly over the past two weeks -- or let's say the past month as we've seen two americans beheaded by isis. what is the takeaway by the world and the american people about how he really feels about this group and what he's prepared to do? >> well, we know what he's prepared to do. he's prepared to use air power. we're not going to fight on the ground. who is going to fight? he said the peshmerga, the kurds and moderate syrian opposition. so think about that for a second. that's crazy. the only reason isis exists in the first place is because bashar assad is weak.

so when you depose dictators, terror groups tend to fill the vacuum. maybe there's a lesson here. so to weaken assad more, we've seen this for the last ten years, saddam, mumbarak, gadhafi. >> he's gotten his message straight but repeatedly said i was elected to end wars, not start them. the question is is his heart in it with the caveat that no one likes to launch wars. no one wants to cost american lives potentially. but his heart has to be behind the mission, does it not? >> well, he's been very slow to come around to it. so it would make it seem that his heart at least wasn't in it. and, look, i think the natural human reaction -- and i'm not saying this is what we should do. in fact, i don't think it's what we should do. but the natural human reaction when you watch an american journalist being beheaded and now two times is to want to wipe

them off the face of the earth. that's the natural human reaction. it's not what we should do. but you don't see any of that kind of passion coming from the president. any kind of acknowledgment of how serious this threat is of, you know -- and that they do really have designs on the united states and that he even is kind of backtracks a little bit when he talks about it and starts talking about the region instead of talking about specifically americans. >> tucker, how do the troops fight for him if they don't believe his heart is behind the mission? >> well, i don't think they do. and i don't think they're going to be asked to in this case. this threat is still academic to us. the threat it seems to me is economic. whether they get here or not. they stop in syria and iraq? no. saudi arabia's the goal. they get to saudi arabia, topple the royal family or cause some real internal strife there, you have $11 gallon gas. this could totally wreck the region. that's the threat in my view. >> guys, thank you. guys and gals. in moments we'll show you what happens when the state department calls bill o'reilly

sexist for comments like this one. >> with all due respect, you don't have to comment on this, that woman looks way out of her depth over there. just the way she delivers. it just doesn't look like she has the don't just dream of being the hero. make it happen.

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i think that when the anchor of a leading cable news show uses quite frankly sexist,

personally offensive language that i actually don't think they would ever use about a man against a person that shares this podium with me, i think i have an obligation and i think it's important to step up and that's not okay. >> that was state department deputy spokeswoman marie harf accusing bill o'reilly for sexism for suggesting one of her colleagues is out of depth. tonight, mr. bill had a new message. >> we asked them to come on "the factor" tonight, but they are afraid. i hope that's not a sexist comment because many men are afraid to come on this program. but the main point here is that smearing people is unacceptable especially by folks representing the u.s. government. i mean, miss harf didn't just go out there and say that off the top of her head. secretary of state kerry had to sign off on it. and it was a foolish thing to do. he should know better. but this is what we're seeing right now in america, cheap shot

alley coming from powerful politicians. >> joining me president of the media research center. this reminded me of when i practiced law and i had to yell at opposing council and his buddy started laughing because i was yelling at the wrong guy and i said be quiet or you'll get it too. he's like, marie, stay out of it. jen psaki wasn't complaining. >> you know, i'm watching this -- megyn, i'm watching this. let's be honest. being a press spokesman in a position like this is about the toughest job in washington, d.c. journalism is a way of life in this town. but that's why you choose the best talent you can find. jay carney was smooth, well-spoken, intelligent, also dupe listist. and then you see josh earnest come in. he's way out of his league. and so you turn over to the

state department with jen psaki. and every time i've watched her i shake my head in disbelief. i've watched that press conference. i watched -- he asked the most simple question in the world, are we at war? she couldn't give him an answer. you think that's bad, now you see marie harf, i'm sorry, i'm going to say this because it's true, she is a bubble head. i've watched in embarrassment -- this is the best they could come up with? she would flunk a freshman college debating contest. >> i don't think it's a bubble head thing. that implies that she's stupid. i don't think she's stupid. i've interviewed her. she's young. i think she's only 31 years old. her last job was spokesperson for cia. do you give a lot of statements on the record for the cia? no. now she's got a big job. but what she needs to remember in my view is you're not in the vorty trying to defend your sister. now you're at the state department. jen psaki took that criticism like a woman. she didn't come out and

complain. the underling did. >> that's the point, megyn. you're a spokesman. you're not a combatant. the rule number one is you don't get into a fistfight. i'm being nice about that. >> now she's got bill airing the segment over and over and over again psaki not being able to answer the question. don't to jen any favors. jen kept her mouth shut. she moved on. she's used to taking incoming. that's what happens. marie, zip it. >> at this point she's got to laugh at herself. at this point she's got to say i made a boo-boo and laugh at herself and rise above it. >> agreed. and that's part of what you do when you're young and coming up the ranks. good to see you. one of the top selling books on amazon right now offers a big argument against sending your kids to the ivy leagues. and wait until you hear this, this book is on fire. and i am really excited about the author being here live next. don't misthis. america's newest real estate brand is all ready the brand of the year.

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well, if you have kids in high school or kids at all, you've probably thought about how to get them into a great college. my next guest says don't drive yourself crazy because where they go is not important. in fact, it might even be bad for them to go to an elite college. author of "excellent cheap, the miseducation of the american elite and a way to american life" joining me now. i love the book. >> thank you. >> it's fascinating. this is my die nettics because i did not go to an elite university. going to syracuse and albany, which is the harvard of the state of new york, but i had been looking for somebody to tell me i made the right move and didn't need the harvard education and you came along and did it.

explain. >> well, i mean, look where you got, right? it didn't matter you went to that school and not the more name brand ones because ultimately what matters is who you are. are you smart, talented, creative, ambitious, hard working? the problem for me with elite education and elite colleges it has to do with what happens at the colleges, but the real problem is precisely who you have to become in order to be the kind of kid who can get into one of these schools. >> and people should know you know of what you speak. you have about 25 degrees from columbia university. and you're a professor at yale for many years. now you've left that and moved to oregon. but you know what you're talking about. you basically talk about how they beat the spirit out of these kids to get their resumes built so they can get into these colleges that turn out to be this bubble of elitism, wealth and protectivism so that the children can never be told that they're wrong or that they failed. >> right, right. that's true. they're sort of stuffed with praise and flattery.

but at the same time they themselves terrified of failure because, you know, you have to have perfect grades. you have to do everything perfectly to get into these schools. once you're in these schools, you feel like you have to do everything perfectly to get to law school or to get a job on wall street or whatever it is you want to do. so part of the problem is that these kids they are very smart and also very ambitious, but they tend to be really risk avert, kind of timid. >> depressed. >> yeah, there's this huge mental health crisis on campus. it's especially bad among affluent -- the people at the colleges know about it. the thing is the kids are very good at hiding it. and parents and other adults think as long as you're getting an a, everything is fine. but everything is not necessarily fine. >> what i realized on my own life because i went to -- you know, my schools were fine, but they were not ivy league institutions. so went onto practice law for ten years at the olympics of law, a great, great firm. i love the people.

but i finally realized that after ten years just because you're good at something doesn't mean it makes you happy. that's what your book gets to. just because you're getting an a and getting into yale, doesn't make you happy. the system and parents before that need to encourage their kids to focus on finding their passion and getting to know themselves, getting to develop themselves. >> that's right. i'm a little wary of the word passion because it tends to be overused. you can say passion, purpose, direction or meaning, whatever it is. it has to do with figuring out what you want and not what your parents want. so much of this is driven by, you know, face it, parents wanting to have the window sticker on the back of their car. or be table to brag about their kids at a cocktail party. >> uh-huh. >> and kids, you know, kids learn to do what the adults want them to do. and the thing for me among the students i've talked to since then is they often get to the end of college and they really

don't know what they want to do with their lives because there's no one holding up a hoop anymore. or they kind of look for a hoop to jump through. so these are kids that can do whatever they want. and yet a large majority end up doing one of like five or six different things. >> you talk about how basically a lot of money is able to buy good s.a.t. scores, which also made me feel so much better about what happened in that junior year. it was like i didn't know there was a prep class you can take until i was like 30. i'm like, oh, that explains everything. we have a limited time. i am going to tape an interview with him next as we go to commercial break. we're going to post it at facebook.com/thekellyfile. one of the things i want to ask you about is you feel about barack obama, you, an elitist yale person yourself, thinks barack obama is the poster child for the problems we're discussing. >> no, wait a second. >> we're going to continue it. but not live on the air.

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don't forget, monday night, tune in. set the dvr now for my exclusive and shocking interview with former university of colorado

boulder professor ward churchill. is he sorry about the offensive comments on the day of the 9/11 attack. we will ask him about that and so much more. thanks for watching. i'm megyn kelly. this is "the kelly file." you know, you hear over the radio we're taking fire, we're under fire. and you hear the pleading in their voices that they need help bad. i actually dropped to a knee and then i got up and like why the hell did i do that. and that's when the rocket hit. he had a machine gun and he started laying down hay. >> i rolled him over. there was no response. i ripped off his body armor, took a