kelly kramer put it on, there and also her birthday. happy birthday, kelly. >> there she is. >> and happy 19th birthday, kelly. >> we start them young here. >> and that is it for the show, and "bulls and bears u "coming up next. >> i believe that we will win. i believe that we will win. the minimum wage raging in more than 150 u.s. cities this week. and the one demand? double the pay. hundreds off landing in cuffs to make the point, but what about this point -- the job market is slowing. millions of americans are still looking for work, and now some here are warning that if these guys get their way, more workers will be out of work. who is right? hi, everyone. i'm brenda buttner, and this is "bulls and bears." gary b. smith, tracy byrnes,

jonas max ferris, and ojohn layfield, and welcome, everyone. will supervising the rates help the unemployment rate? >> it almost has to, brenda. there is always the underlying assumption to raise the minimum wage to the level, we can stick it to the man, the evil corporations, so stipulate that the corporations are evil. businesses are only greedy and after a profit. in that case, what are the companies going to do? one of two things. they are going to look to achieve the lower costs by replacing the workers with technology and/or raise prices. in fact, we have evidence of both. look, applebees is experimenting with more than 100,000 tablets that sit right on the table which replaces servers, and mcdonald's is experimenting with the iphones to replace the cashiers to go up to order and then pay on the iphone, and on the pricing, heritage foundation

estimates that with these kinds of increases, fast food prices are going to go up 38%. and by the way, profits for these businesses were already razor thin are going to drop 77%. this kind of wage increase goes through, brenda, watch out, and you will see a lot more people on the unemployment line. >> and jonas, a lot of e people think it is a mega corporation they are hitting, but in fact, it is all franchises and owned by small business owners who can't really afford such an increase in the pay. >> yeah, we well, even in the case where it is a giant evil corporation, soaking up all of the profits, there is a myth that they can somehow shift the profits to the working people with the higher minimum wage, and there is some of that, but it is also going to shift profits from other workers who will see the pay cuts or get fired, but most importantly, shift the cost to the consumer.r and mcdonald's is still going to be making money through the

automation or the smaller dollar menu, and it is not going to cut into the profits and shift it to the workers. so people have to be aware and i'm not against some of the index pricing, but i will say why is the server the one who deserve deserves the living wage when the productb that they are selling is pretty good wage than in bangladesh where they don't get a safer place to works and why is the person in the america get a higher wage than the market rate would be? >> well, jessica can, a -- jess, are you worried that if the minimum wage is double what it is currently, doesn't that hurt for the very workers who are asking for it? >> contrary here. everyone is talking a lot about the people working to get themselves out of poverty, and

to make sure that they are no longer on the government hand oufts and subsidies, but experts say it is $11 an hour to make sure that the family of four is just at the poverty line. so these folks are working 40 hours a week, and adults making $7 or $8 an hour, and there is no way for them to get out of poverty. so if you increase it to the level where people can buy their own groceries and pay rent and get out of poverty, they can spend more themselves at mcdonald's, and other businesses and the economy is going to continue to grow, and that is the whole point. >> okay. tr tracy, what do you think of that? >> well, okay, but isn't that back to the whole give a man a fish and teach him to fish thing, and if you keep handing it to them, they are not going to get out of poverty. >> they are already working. >> giving them minimum wage is not going to increase the socioeconomic status, and that should not be the goal here.

you raise the rates at mcdonald's, and sure that worker may make more if the minimum wage goes up, but when he goes the buy a slice of pizza at the street, and when that minimum wage is higher too, that slice of pizza is higher, too, and so any raise that the minimum wage worker got, he is giving it back, because the products are going to go back, and so it is cyclical and stupid to ask for, that and they should want for more and not just continued handouts. >> john, what do you say? >> i think that average person who makes minimum wage their family brings in $53,000 a year, and you are not fighting poverty with the inmum wage increase anymore so than any other economic strata of wages, because most of the time, you will have a spouse working, and young person working that is also stay ing ing in the househ. look, this is a shortcut for the politicians. why $15? why not $25? they chose this number, because they are saying, we don't have any policies and krcreate jobs d so we will go after the man like gary b. says and force them to

pay more, and it all about politics. if you have jobs that are plentiful, you don't have to worry about the minimum wage. >> jessica? >> well, i mean, it is absurd to say that you have got people, and i just said that it is $11/hour for a family of four for those people to be working to break out of poverty -- >> but that is not the average worker at these places, jessica. >> the average worker makes $7 an hour at these places so no way for them, and there are not enough hours in a week for people to work and get out of poverty, and if this is what they are making. and the republicans need to get on board with this, because they did a poll in the state of florida where 57% of people here, and this is republicans and democrats and independents are for raising the minimum wage, and so if everyone does not come together and say that by people making more and getting out of poverty through work -- >> jessica, be clear the head of the household is -- >> this is the polled of votes.s >> hold on, jessica. >> you are head of the

households and to john's point, the families of four are not all making minimum wage. you have one or two members of the family maybe, but you don't have everyone, and that is what brenda is trying to say to you, that it is not everyone across t the board. many of the employees are kid cans quite frankly and all fighting for more handouts, because that seems to be what this generation, and most people on welfare want is more handouts ark and we have gone in the wrong direction. >> so if you are working and not working it is a handout. >> if you are asking for more money without earning it, it is a handout. >> and so, gary b, this is a national minimum wage and a lot of the franchises set the wages according to the local job market competition and all the rest, and why should somebody who lives in new york make the same as somebody who lives in south dakota. >> exactly, brenda. a lot of it is based on the cost of living. minimum wage of $15 in new york city is not going to go nearly as far as it is in akins, south carolina, for example. the other point that i want to

make is that jessica raises some great points, and there are, look, everyone deserves a better life and especially those below the poverty level, but wanting that and economic reality are two different things. it is great to say that we should all rise up and be better off and let's give the people more money who are out there, but it always boils down to how it is going to be done. as we have pointed out everyone else on the panel has pointed out the economic reality of doing that. you can't just force the free market and the left has been trying to do this, my gosh, since fdr, to act as they wanted to act. because as tracy pointed out, i think, that mcdonald's or maybe it was jonas, that mcdonald's will find a way to make that profit and if they have to increase the quarter pounder to $10/quarter pounder, they will do it, and the people will pay or not pay, and then as tracy points out, when they go down

the street to get the slice of pizza, they can't afford it a and that pizza owner is going to go under, and more people will be unemployed. okay. that has to be the last word. thank you, guys, great debate. >> the isis debate is escalating as this number is accelerating and some are warning that scary number could harm our efforts to fight the terrorists. at od, whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in with premium service like one of the best on-time delivery records and a low claims ratio,

we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helping the world keep promises.

dad,thank you mom for said this oftprotecting my future.you. thank you for being my hero and my dad. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them.

if you're a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. live from america's news headquarters, good morning. i'm kelly wright. a news team has found a oil slick in an ocean where two people crashed. larry glaze r and his wife jane were in the plain. larry is believed to be the pilot. i was headed from rochester, new york, to north carolina, when it veered off of coast. and the jamaican coast guard are search ing f searching for the wreckage. and 11 people are injured after a commuter bus crashed

into a home near san francisco. police in richmond say that a stolen car hit the bus causing it to go off of the road and slam into the house. three people in the house sustained minor injuries and a passenger from the car is arrested, but the police are r searching for the driver who fled on foot. that is a look at news at this hour. i'm kelly wright. now back to "bulls & bears." isis terror spreading, and fears it may reach our soil g w growing. now, worries that this number may be a factor in fighting them, because a newly released report shows that foreign countries now own $6 trillion of our debt, and john, that is over one-third of the entire debt and you say it is a threat. >> yes, it is, because if the interest rates ever go up, as we have been warning for two to three years, with we are in trouble, because they would double from here, and just to go back to the historic average and we don't have that point to fund a lot of the military, and that is a problem.

you look at what is going on in the eu, and sweden and ukraine and of germany, and all of the countries, and actually, almost all of them are increasingly the military funding, because they understand the threat of terror and extremists, and with we don't have that ability. the first thing that we cut is military, and this is hurting our national interests, because our politicians can't reign in the national debt. >> that is right. jonas, because a lot of it is entitlements and they don't have the political courage to cut it, so they cut the military. >> when there is not a very obvious reason not to, so what i mean is that ultimately since, this is a really long-term problem and driven by the social security, and medicare and medicaid and these are ultimately the programs to take the hit when some day the interest rates spiral out of control or we can't raise taxes anymore or whatever, and when the defense budget, and it come s down to, and we raise the money, and don't have them talk to come from and look at what happened with the iraq war, so it is not a problem, but ultimately 20 or

30 years down the road, there are cut s s in the benefits and assume that they won't ever get cut. >> and fray si, the i-- and tracy, talk about the issue of foreign control of our debt, and is that going to control our ability to defend our national interests. >> and to john's point, we can't defend our national interests, because just to service the debt, it is almost half of the current defense budget, and if the interest rates go up, as john said, we pay $230 billion a year just on interest in this debt, and that starts to go up, and watch how it eats into defense budget, and that is unfortunately the first thing to go in washington which should scare a lot of americans. >> jessica, does it scare you? >> absolutely. i think that it should scare everyone. i mean, i think that we all agree that there is a huge issue that needs to be handled with the debt and the deficit and unfortunately, we have midterm e elections in 60 days, and nobody has been talking about this at all, because they are doing the typical politician move they do in washington, kicking the can

down the road, because as jonah said it is a long-term problem and we can eek by until 2018, but until 2024 we will see it with the military and the health care and like we did with the ebola virus as well with education. so we need people who with we are electing in washington going hopefully this election and hopefully by 2016 who are going to show the real leadership and come together to make the changes that we need to deal with the tax reform. >> we can hope, but we haven't seen much of that. and gary b, china is the number one country that holds the foreign debt. does that concern you? >> well, brenda, two issues here. it is what countries own the debt. and you certainly don't want to see any enemies or the potential enemies holding it. there, china, and i would not say they are our closest ally, and you are right, they hold the biggest portion. now, that is a concern if we ever have a problem with china, i agree, but the restf of the foreign debt though is held by

countries like the united kingdom, belgium, france, canada. i don't't think it is go ing to a problem, but the other side of the issue, that we have been talking about is will we be able to pay for the defense budget? i'd be honest with you, i'm on the other side of this. i went through the defense budget compared to other countries and the top other countries, china, russia, saudi, america, france, uk, germany, japan and india, and our budget exceeds every one of those combined, brenda. so i'm not certain that we could make some cuts and not be that bad off. i believe in a strong national defense, but we have a lot of slack there. >> john, i don't think that gary b. is going to be the vice presidential candidate anymore, because you are disagreeing. >> certainly not the secretary of defense i will tell you that. i don't trust gary b. to do anything actually. and you talk about this, and all of the money that we owe china, but if something happens in

taiwan and south of taiwan, we will be borrowing money from china to defend china from taiwan, and this is a crazy world we have gotten into. >> and isn't there a positive like if we owed russia $1 trillion, then wouldn't we have leverage to say, you have to get out of the ukraine or we will double the interest. and we won't get into trouble with them, because we owe them so much money, that we have to make the payments. so it would be okay if more countries lent us more money. >> and you won't be the secretary of treasury ooeither john's administration. and now, the crisis with isis and the ukrainian and the russians. and now, here is something, that one is the niece of mlk and one could be the prime minister of the uk. and now, you will hear them here. and with congress back in session monday, what is the first order of business?

well, here is a hint. it is not about this or this, but try this. man: i know the name of eight princesses. i'm on expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for, because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your future? we'll help you get there.

coming up, america is facing a border threat and

congress returning monday, but nothing is scheduled on day one. dealing with america e's two biggest issues right now. the border crisis and the isis terror threat. think that's bat ti. one of the things that is scheduled a field hearing on the north earn long eared bat. tracy, what if a company were

run like this? >> well, imagine the market is falling apart, but we have to talk about, you know, some bat and its long ears. we would all be fired. it is so stupid. congress is ridiculous, and the truth is that they should not be coming back from vacation, but they should be working. and they should have six working days between now and the election, and somebody would say, guys, we should buckle down and tackle one or two of the major issues other than the long-a eared bat. >> john, i know that you have something to say about this. >> good lord, yes. why isn't some junior senator trying to make a name for themselves, and put a tax bill or the bill for foreign security look at it, and vote it up or down, and we have the most anemic year of congress in history, and nothing is getting done, and if the republicans take over, so what! they don't have a plan ooeither.

nobody is putting anything forward except getting re-elected. >> and jessica, should congress be run like some big evil corporation? >> well sh, i think that the nae of congress that is created by the founding fathers which is the best form of government that has ever been e created only runs as well as the people that we elect to represent us in it. and there needs to be leadership and caucusing, and majority, and we need to have folks, you know, as said, to go in and actually work, and hey, they can be fired. and guess what, we have the midterm elections coming up in 60 days, and people not to be disgusted and stay a wai way fre polls b gou to the polls and elect people who are going to work, and not just obstruct or argue, and go on the sunday shows. >> and we do deserve some of the blame. gary b., what do you say? >> well, brenda, some companies do focus on the bats, and real things, and guess what in those companies, they go out of business and the people are fired. you know, jessica brings up the

point, well, we have the midterm elections elections, and the politicians know how to game this, and what, 90% of the incumbents get re-elected, why? because they know to get re-elected they have to do one thing, bring home the pork. people don't care about anything. the people in allentown, pennsylvania, they don't care about isis that much. yeah, they care about reading the headline and care about getting the bridge and the roads built and stuff like that. >> and gary, b, b, i have to g ten seconds to jonas. >> look, i like the bats, and they have a terrible problem. and they are in the vote b business, and there is -- look! there is a reason they do it, and you act like we can fire the bums, and when they paz something, everybody hates it, and you have to go back to medicare part d and even then we complained about the doughnut hole, and it was free. >> and thank you, guys and tracy and jessica for joining us. cashing in is just over an hour from now, and eric, what do

you have coming up? >> fears that america is going to suffer another dead ly attac. and the d&c chairman is accusing some republicans of abusing the women, and how it could cost the democrats some campaign cash. we are all over it. >> we will be watching, eric. and these crazy techies are lining up, and before they know what the gadget does, and how that could line your pockets with cash. with regional experts who work with portfolio management experts that's when expertise happens. mfs. because there is no expertise without collaboration.

predictions, gary, b, take t away. >> i heard rumors that apple is coming out with something. ostock is up 50% in two years. >> i love the company and not the stock. >> and jonas? >> stock up 60% in the next year. >> jonas? >> no canadian solar. >> and your prediction, jonas? >> i went into the cvs and i

noticed that the wall of tar is gone and the cigarettes are goep, people, but it is replaced by the smoking sensation ads and good for glaxosmithkline on nicorette gum. >> and gary? >> i am seeing the stock struggling. i'm a bear. >> okay. neil is next. one could be britain's next prime minister, and the other is a niece of a slain civil right's leader, and both very, very different people, but one common theme. i'm neil cavuto, and i want you to hear what nigel and lavita told me lies at the crisis. the reason that the terrorist group is so good at recruiting in britain and america and in places that you least expect, and it has nothing to do with all of i