we've got a great show tomorrow. >> last year we were the wizard of oz characters. what will we be this year? our halloween parade. >> plus an eating contest. you don't want to miss it. >> this looks like a pumpkin massacre. ebola panic setting in, and isis fears becoming a reality. new york and new jersey now quarantining anyone who comes in contact with ebola victims in west africa after a doctor in new york tests positive. and then there's those acts of terror. a soldier is shot in canada, police officers targeted and attacked with a hatchet in new york. all of it calling to lift spending up to take these threats down. is that the answer? hi, everyone. i'm melissa francis, and this is "bulls and bears." the bulls and the bears this week, gary, jonas and john along

with gary and emily, welcome to all of you. gary, i'm going to start with you. is spending more the answer? >> most definitely. look, the number one function of government is to protect the folks, and we're getting illnesses and diseases like us coming to the shores and we have lone wolf terrorists starting to grow, we have to do something about it. there is it not enough money to even spend to get something like this done and watched over. i think spend all you can to make sure nothing happens. >> i don't know that you ever want to say to the government, spend all you can. right that is terrifying. make we just need to be get more focused and serious. emily? >> i think we need to be spending money smartly. you don't want to give a blank check, but particularly on the health care front, it's not like there's nothing we can do about this. we can be putting this into preparedness. preparedness particularly in a health context is something that

got decimated under the budget control act last year. there's a way you can be spending it in a serious way. that way we don't need to be sending emergency s.w.a.t. teams into cities. they're ready themselves. >> it seems like we just need to minimize stupidity. gary b., we finally have governors cuomo and christie saying if you are coming back from treating people with ebola, you need to be quarantined for 21 days. that doesn't cost money. it aefs just common sense. >> kind of like the guy who climbed the fence of the white house. why don't we just have a 20-foot fence and make it harder for him to climb? you're right, melissa. i think you hit the nail on the head when you said we should fear when the give the government a blank check because then they end up exceeding it. i think we do need to spend it smarter. you know, when you think of the budgets of the department of homeland security and the department of defense, between the two of them they should be fighting all this stuff. in fact, i know department of

homeland security has ebola fighting teams out there for just this case, in case somebody made a chemical attack on us. between those two, we have a bigger protection budget, if you will, then the next ten countries combined. the money is there. we don't need more money. we need to spend it better and be more focused on what is causing us harm right now. >> jonah? >> it could be too much money. they have $40 million a year homeland -- look, you give me $100 million i can't build a better search engine than google, i don't have the resources. the government has the money allocated for these things. the fact that home larnd security all these years is real no further along in this. what was their plan to track somebody with ebola? how did they know the guy that went to dallas wasn't a terrorist? they don't follow people, restrict them, put them in quarantine federally.

why is that a state problem? >> i can't believe i'm going to agree with jonas, that never happens. but john, the government is spending a lot of time telling us to relax and not panic. yet they don't seem panicked enough about any of this. what do you think? >> they're very reactive. when you talk about stopping the stupidity, you'd have to quarantine congress and most of washington, d.c. >> that's not a bad idea. >> you're right it's actually a very good idea. what gary k. is talking about, i don't think he's talking about a blank check, my friend. i think he's talking about the government needs to be proactive instead of reactive. we stop smallpox with about $300 million. it should have been a $2 billion a year disease. we can do so much more in getting ahead of this. instead, the government is simply being reactive to whatever happens. the government now saying everything is fine, i don't anybody really believes that. i'm not on the side that thinks this is a pandemic but i don't think the government is ahead of this. >> gary k., do you want to respond?

everybody fipiled on you. >> everybody knows me. i'm not a blank check writer. i want the government to do it reasonably and correctly. the good news is maybe they're starting to react the right way with a quarantine. everybody is yelling and screaming at them. to the main point, when it comes to terrorism and protecting the people and the country, spend the money and spend it correctly and wisely. that and government doesn't go hand in hand. >> to a certain extent, you wonder how much money will make a difference. we talk about the lone wolf converts, a lot of these people are perhaps mentally unstable just looking for a call for something to get behind, emily. now they're coming out and in this one case in new york wielding an ax at police themselves. how do you battle back against that type of insanity? >> that is really terrifying. we have discussed a couple of things i think we should clarify. the quarantine specifically actually is a state and local mandate.

that is not the federal government. it is on the state and local to do that. then if we start talking about tracking, that gets a little scary. i don't know that we want to go all the way into tracking citizens as they move around all the time. we did see that they were able to find three americans in the last week, three young women, that were going halfway around the world to defect to isis and they caught them. >> i think that case was their parents reported them missing and they had taken their passports. in all these cases you seem to read they've gone online to sites to be recruited and they aren't being tracked after that. that's the thing that sort of is scary. once you go on one of these sites and you're interested in the product they're pedaling and the government is not tracking you after that, that seems like it's a problem. gary b., what do you think? >> well, i definitely think it is. it gets to the bigger issue and i think you mentioned it earlier, which i fall under the tent of hubris. why are we not doing the obvious things here? i don't want to be a monday

morning quarterback and say, oh, yeah, i would have thought of all these things. i know there's smart people working in the government. but it seems like we have b-- like when obama said, don't worry about ebola. there's no way it's coming over here. we missed the guy that is now in dallas, getting on the plane because of the fever. we missed the doctor that's going bowling in new york city. we're missing the obvious thinks. that's what worries me. maybe we should start spending our money on just take a step back and say, maybe we don't know everything and we need to learn a little more. >> jonas? >> it's not monday morning. we were talking about this quarantine situation weeks ago. anybody could have thought of this and did think of it weeks ago. we're not talking about money, building nuclear submarines. lindsay lohan had a thing on an ankle we can track her.

how much does this cost? this isn't money. this is cheap technology we're not deploying and there's no ideas to put it into plans because people are concerned about the rights of the ebola victim to go bowling when he wants. it's ridiculous. >> but there's the slippery slope. where does it end? when we track some people, do we trust the government to stop tracking others? i think of the irs. i don't trust them to do anything. john, the last word. >> i think that's one of the problems. we're not letting police officers be police officers. we didn't have the tools to stop 9/11, but think about it if we had. it cost us $3.3 trillion to our economy and thousands and thousands of lives lost. police don't have the ability anymore to stop, question and frisk. a guy walks in, it's hard to stop a lone wolf. some have crazy. we need to let police officers be police officers and try to stop some of these things without worrying about so many people's rights, infringing on them. >> we had resources in place for

years. i took a plane yesterday and tsa gave me a piece of paper to prove i was on the approved list. they decided to go through my laptop, then they checked my -- >> you look very suspicious. >> there's no organized plane. >> i think they were right, jonas. i would frisk i as well. thanks, guys. with all these acts of terror, why are so many still reluctant to call it terror? neil's gang on how being too pc could be putting ow lives and livelihood in danger. first, as americans line up at the polls in ten days, one thing they'll be voting on could be making those unemployment lines longer. i'm not afraid.

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good morning, i'm leland vittert in washington. an end to a massive manhunt in california. they arrested 34-year-old gunman after a shooting spree that killed two police officers and

injured hundreds. hundreds of officers were searching to him and a woman who was taken into custody. no motive so far for the killing. a washington state community is in mourning today as police work to find a motive in a deadly high school shooting. hundreds of people crammed into a local church to grieve and pray last night in marysville just north of seattle. one student killed and several others injured before the teenage gunman turned the weapon on himself. in new jersey and new york, a mandatory quarantine is in effect for travelers who have had contact with ebola infected patients in africa. they are staging tougher guidelines than those set by the cdc. it's going to be really, really cool. >> really can't discuss the secrets. >> it's not for people who can't stand to be criticized. >> it appeals to all. >> there's no way to overhype it. >> of course. obviously. they were talking about neil

cavuto's upcoming special election coverage. neil will have the candidates in key races that could decide it all. in some of the biggest names in business and what it all means for your money and the economy. it all kicks off next saturday from 10:00 a.m. to noon eastern on the "dash to the clash." and neil's back at it again on election night on our sister network fox business from 8:00 p.m. until all the results are in. you don't want to miss a minute of it. and one issue everyone is watching come election day is the push to hike the minimum wage. there's a ballot initiative to raise it in four states. that is on top of the numerous states and cities that are already raising it in 2014. but gary b., you say a vote for hiking wages is the vote for hiking unemployment. >> exactly. i'm just looking at history. let's take the most current one. president obama himself voted to -- or authorized delay in

american samoa. why? because it was found to hurt the economy. it wasn't just the right saying it. it wasn't business. it was the government accountability office saying it hurt the economy. that's why it was delayed. they did a study in 2012 of the hike in the new york state minimum wage. they found they lost 500,000 part-time jobs. raising the minimum wage is bad for the economy. >> emily, what about that? the president's only cbo said it could cost as many as 1 million jobs to raise the minimum wage to 10 bucks an hour. >> look, people are ready for this. people are ready to raise the minimum wage. and this is something that we should be doing at a state and local level. if we're not doing it at a federal level. we've not seen a raise since 2006 at the federal level. let's -- >> so it doesn't bother you, however many people get laid off, that's fine. it's worth it. >> no. we really don't know that's going to happen. >> we don't? >> no. this puts money in the pocket of people that are going to spend it. it brings money to local economies. this is not money they're going to tuck away under the mattress.

these are people who will spend the money. the ballot initiatives going on right now are in deep red states. this is not so political that it's so divisive. >> john, i think we do know it's going to happen. i think the cbo takes that into account. they know where the money is going and they say more people are going to be unemployed. they're saying it's wor ae's wor the folks that get more money. >> how could you not know what's going to lap. this is economics 101. small businesses are not prepared. they don't know what they're going to have to pay. one day you're going to say, by the way, now what you pay your employee sz 20% to 30% higher. you don't know if that will hurt business? of course it will. what do you do five orr ten years from now when you say let's raise it to $12.50 or $15. let's fix this. no one is offering to fix this because they love it being a problem. >> jonas, in some states it seems like a political trick. illinois has a question on the ballot about minimum wage.

they're just looking for an opinion. it doesn't do anything. if you vote to raise the minimum wage, they're like, that's nice, that's your opinion. we're not doing anything about it. >> i'm a little more worried when they start doing something. i can hear the argument states shoulden in charge of this. what if a stud does p $20. there's a point the federal government has to do something. i think the federal government needs to have an inflation adjusted rate, maybe a little higher than now, maybe up and down around their cost of living but not just any level they want. >> gary k., you don't think states know better for themselves how tight their employment market is? it seems the sfurnlg further yo from the source the furthest you know where supply and demand cross. >> whether it's state or federal, when you dictate and mandate to the job creators the business owners that they have to spend more money, they are going to react. they're going to react two ways, either hiking prices to the consumer or, most likely, get

rid of a few people. when you times that by all the business owners around the country, that is going to affect employment in a big, big way. the other part of the equation is if you go too high, you crowd out people that would otherwise get a job at the lower level. i think it's bad all the way around. i think it's a state issue and i think it will be raised on a state by state basis. we'll see who wins. >> we've got to go. thanks. cashing in just over an hour from now. eric, what do you have coming up? >> hi, melissa. leaving the terror fight to twitter as isis breeds these jihadists online. politicians want social media companies to do more to stop them. should they? plus, why to keep your money? before you pull the lever ten days ago, find out what happened in these six states. cash in always looking out for you. see you 11:30 eastern. >> we'll definitely be watching. these stressful times have you feeling the need for a massage? what if i told you you are already paying for it. but not for you. for bunnies.

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here we go again, $25 billion in wasteful government spending on everything from watching grass grow, i'm not kidding, to monkeys playing gambling video games. all paid for by you and me, the taxpayer. john, we keep seeing this year in, year out. is it time to stop this? >> oh, my god, yes. this is pathetic. this is why people don't trust the government and they

shouldn't trust the government. you have an example in this book of $500 helicopter part, paying $8,000 for the part. it's a rounding error. no. it's incompetence or criminal. we need to throw every one of these guys out. >> jonas, training mountain lions to walk ond a treadmill, $800,000. >> this report does snow that the name of security and defenses are a lot of waste happening. it's not the pursuit of science, though these are common -- >> you're going to blame science now! >> let me tell you about these bunny rabbits. they have been treated wrong. they deserve a massage. >> don't forget elmer fudd.

>> i like research. i do say the government wastes a lot of money. >> a study inquiring whether moms love dogs more than their kids? do we want to know that one? >> we don't need the answer, in my family. moms do love the dogs the most. but did you see they're building an ironman costume? >> that one made sense to me. i love that. i would put all the money into the ironman thing. i think that's cool. melissa, this is what happens when you get any kind of agency government that is basically unchecked. they're whole point in washington is to build their power base. how do you build your power base? you grow your budget so you come and say, we need to study rabbit massages and this and that and they get more and more money. i think we need to eventually go the other way, cut out entire departments. department of education does not need to exist. department of agriculture does not need to exist. the 25 billion, tip of the iceberg.

>> emily, texting drunks to ask them not to drink. they're going to spend about $200,000 on that one. have you ever seen drunks text? it's not that pretty. i don't know if this is the way to go. >> i think they should do that all in -- i don't think anybody likes this kind of spending. the problem is when you cut across the board of discretionary spending, across the board, which is what they have done in the last year, then you end up getting rid of all these regulators that could actually be lorooting this out. we put out a study in the last month that showed there was $21 billion lost of increased budget deficit because we didn't have those regulators. >> i don't know. your downside to cutting the spending was we might get rid of regulators. that's a selling point in my book but that's okay. thanks guys. emily, thank you for joining us. why what's happening to your house could have you moving into your dream house.

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the best part, predictions, gary b.? >> melissa, housing is flat but housing fixing up is not flat. home depot up 30% in a year. >> i'm buying a hammer. john? >> skechers was up huge with their earnings, stock trading down. i think it trades up 10%. i do own it. >> i like lime green skechers. jonas? >> the flu shot is getting a lot of free publicity this flu season between the ub uberdeliveriuberdeliver ing chshgs is good for the needle makers. >> did you get your flu shot? >> i'm getting scared to do it by the media. >> you're saying everybody should. >> gary k., what do you have? >> in a tough news week, it's great to see the generosity of people in the free markets are still at hand. paul allen giving $100 million towards ebola. mark zuckerberg does the same. great to see. >> yes, we love the free markets doing what they do best.

thank you to all of you for joing us. and just remember you can catch me weekdays 2:00 p.m. "money with melissa francis" on the fox business network. the cost of freedom the number one business block continues with neil cavuto. a continuing crisis because we're godless? hi, everyone. i'm neil cavuto. we still don't know why they did it, but we know what happened because of it. terror. canada's capital city, the hatchet in new york city, so many are afraid to call these acts of terror. ben stein, what do you make of this battle back and forth,