summoned to a greater good and the sum of our greater parts, the parts that bind us and not the parts that at any time, black or white, could undo us. we shall see. i'm hopeful. this is a knocks news alert. hello, everyone, i'm kimberly and a grand jury has reached a decision on whether to indict police officer darren wilson for the shooting of michael brown. >> reporter: kimberly, eagerly awaiting an announcement, this grand jury has been working behind closed doors ever since the august shooting of michael brown. now in the next kcouple of hour

we -- back in august, we did see some violent unrest and large scale protests. the real question is what's going to happen after that announcement. three months later, both sides have been meeting together, protests and law enforcement. the temp is several very different. down in the 30s today. will we see large scale protests? law enforcement has been bracing for that, we have seen barricades set up, a real tension in the air, businesses once again boarding up and when you talk to people on the street, a real fear of what could follow this announcement that we expect in the next two hours. and this weekend, former new york city mayor rudy giuliani got into a heating exchange over policing black communities. watch. >> i find it very disapoinling that you're not discussing the fact that 93% of blacks in america are killed by other blacks. we're talking about the exception here. >> first of all, no black people

who commit crimes against other black people go to jail, number two, they're not sworn by the police department as an agent of the state to uphold the law. so in both cases that's a false equivalence si. >> police officers wouldn't be there if you weren't killing each other. >> rudy appeared on fox and friends this morning to defend his stance. >> i probably saved more black lives as mayor of new york city than any mayor in the history of the city, i would like to see if dr. dyson has saved as many lives in his community as i have saved. the danger to a black child in america is not a white police officer. that's going to happen less than 1% of the time. the danger to a black child, if it was my child, the danger is another black. >> okay, so he's speaking from his perspective and considerable years of experience not only as

mayor of new york city, but as a former prosecutor and working very closely with law enforcement in the streets of new york. eric, what's your take? >> my take is, bob, you're huffing and puffing a little bit that mayor giuliani would say something like that, but the numbers bear him out, black men and women are dying a at the hands of other black men and women at a historically high rate. professor dyson did something unbelievable, i'm not sure if we caught that in the sound bite or not. but he actually said something about white supremacy to rudy giuliani. giuliani's point was, he put more cops on the street, he cleaned up times square, he took the crime off the street and when 90% of the crime plus is black on black, you're reducing the crime against black people. that's his point. >> he also closed my favorite

massage parlor in times square. >> what a tragedy. >> is that why you're so cranky. >> i'm not cranky at all. what are you talking about? you make me cranky, it won't take long, but the problem with what giuliani said, white people would not be there if they weren't killing each other. >> professor dyson says when the police are in a city, it's an occupying force, and when you remove that logic, what do you have? a community that is beseejsed by crime. the police are there to protect good from the bad, that is their role, they don't want to be there and cause problems, which is why when giuliani talked about a force that reflects the community, that helps, but the problem in ferguson is that they can't find enough applicants to be police officers in their own community, so you have a police department that doesn't look like ferguson and it happens in other cities as well.

in the 1990s, new york city averaged 40 homicide a week, many of those victims were minorities, in 2014, there were weeks when there wasn't a single murder in new york. so that means now in 2014, these not being killed were minorities, so when giuliani says that he's saved more lives than dyson, he's making a factual statement. he is right, the police force has done for more minorities than any liberal program on the planet by simply letting them live, so it's an actual fact what giuliani said, and what dyson said, an occupying force is a presence that needs to be removed. so what is dyson's solution? will dyson go on the street and protect their innocent families? >> i'm not particularly interested in what dyson had to say in, but most of these murders, black on black is heavily drug related. it's gang related.

the numbers are right, 97% of blacks kill blacks. but i'm not sure i understand yet what the connection here is with ferguson. >> here, bob, no, they were talking got ferguson, they were talking about black crime. so if you reduce crime and 90% of the victims are black, are you not reducing crime on black people? rudy said that's what he said. dyson said that it's some white supremacy mentality. blacks in new york should be thrilled that rudy giuliani did what he did. dyson was trying to turn it into an anger thing. >> one of the things we have been talking about over the past several years, that race is part of the news, but it's also a real issue we have to talk about. there's no question that safer communities are more successful communities, how do u you get to

a safe community? first of all is security, and you got to look at education, marriage rates, employment and public service. all of those things matter and in a place like forget song, tonight -- tonight i hope they can get to where -- people are going to be unhappy no matter what happens. i am surprised that they are making this announcement so late in the day, i mean it will be after dark. maybe there's a good reason for it. i don't understand why they wouldn't have made it very early in the morning and let people assemble then in the daylight, i think that probably would have been better. >> nearly awful of the rioting that took place, took place at night. i would be very curious a to steve how ma be hanging out there. >> there are four elements in this conflict, there are legitimate protesters, who sin sirly believe that there's an

injustice and they should be out there andary voices should be heard. and there's law enforcement that have to respond in case there's any trouble. there's business owners who are afraid that maybe they might lose something. and there are is the fourth group which is there specifically to get those other groups to destroy each other. these are radicals that know the path to anarchy is through racial conflict. they don't care, they're just there to infwlam so they can have their revolution. the sad part about it is that it does hurt letting malt protesters who really do care. >> can i add a fifth group? 90% of the people in the area are those who don't own a business who aren't law enforcement and they're not going to protest tonight, they're just sitting there waiting, waiting by the door, praying that evil doesn't knock on their door. >> and you have those who are taking advantage of the situation who are coming in from

the outside. >> can i ask kimberly something from a legal stand point? steve harris has been reporting on fox news, the grand jury has been meeting for about three months, in your experience as a prosecutor, is that an average amount of time to present evidence in a case like this? has it gone on longer than you expected? >> it has tak of time that i would expect given some of the complexities of this particular case, and the forensic reports and the reports from criminologists as well. tlooets see what happens, they don't just take one case at a time. there's multiple cases, so in addition you have this case and they take them all and give them appropriate time. >> i have a question for you counselor as well. i think that ferguson, the family's lawyer made a good point when he said, for 20 years, a prosecutor has not gone in in and like this guy said, i'm not going to take a position, in other words we're not going to take a position, here's the evidence.

usually always prosecutors go in and say we want an indictment, right? and he's not doing that. >> at the end you can make a summation and give your side of it, this is what we think the evidence we put up to the grand juy. i don't know if he knows exactly what went on in there, because it's a secret proceeding, so i'm not sure where he's coming from in that regard. but nevertheless, when they give their verdict, they render that, that's anonymous as well, so they may not know as the grand jury exactly how it's going to go down. and also the person who was the target of the grand jury will also be allowed to opportunity to present any evidence if they choose. >> but the prosecutors go in there and say, we think this is enough evidence -- >> the grand jury is there, you go for it. i don't tell them i think you should come back and give a second-degree applied malice. the last one that i did before i left the da's office, i didn't go in there and say i think you

should find for second-degree. this is the evidence that i offer to you. the grand jury came back and asked for the second-degree. >> i think you have to have sympathy for a jury when the spector of rioting depens on your decision. it's dishing in a country of 23 -- the media puts it's collective magnifying glass right here in this small town and you know when you put a magnifying glass on something, underneath things burn. because it's a self fulfilling prove city, the more people that go there, it's a snowball it builds velocity en masse, nobody wants to slow it down because they have too much invested in this event. >> people who are probably at the cross hairs -- bad term, i shouldn't have used that, at the middle of all this are the cops, when violence breaks out,

protest is right, peaceful protests. but with all the media attention that the cops are getting in ferguson. boy, are we tying one hand behind their back, if they let something go, they have the -- >> the rules of engagement, now that have been so hampering their ability and they're second guessing themselves. >> also keep in mind, from's a large percentage of the black community, no matter what the grand jury does, they thought it was murder. >> it's important that they understand the process, that it was put forward to a grand jury for them to decide based on all the facts and evidence. and none of us out here had all the evidence. let's hope that people respect the process. we are expecting an announcement very shortly. so please, stay with us. coming up next, an unexpected resignation from a

top member of the president's cabinet today. was defense secretary chuck hagel forced out? we're going to tell you what our sources are telling us, that's ahead. today after a surpris

announcement from the president's national security team. chuck hagel is resigning, behind the scenes the white house is making sure that everyone knows he was fired, but this is what president obama said today. >> chuck has been an exemplary defense secretary, providing a steady hand as we modernize our strategy and budget the meet long-term threats while still responding to immediate challenges like isil and ebola. last month chuck came to me to discuss the final quarter of my presidency and determined that having guided the -- this was the time to complete hiss service. >> it's been the greatest privilege of my life to lead and most important to serve, to serve with the men and women of the defense department and support their families.

i am immensely proud of what we have accomplished during this time. >> at the press briefing, josh ernest would not answer if he was forced out. but tension was brewing between hagel and white house staff and one senior official tells jennifer griffin, make no mistake, hagel was fired. and kimberly, that background quote making sure that all of us knew, that follow this kind of thing, that he was forced out, that this was not a decision he made himself. chuck hagel, about two hours before, he went to the white house to have the president say that to his face? >> who wants to sign up to work for someone like that, the mistreatment, the lack of respect and dignity, to me it's very appalling and the messaging all over the place. what i do think was nice that came out of today was the support that senator john mccain showed the secretary in his statement that he issued that i think gives really the back story. basically it comes down to the

fastba fact that even hagel needed a certain amount of truth and military strength, in a lot of the situations we face around the world, especially with isis, syria and iraq, across the board and th and he disagreed with the president on that and you listen to the military people that are on the ground and a you listen to that advice and you heed that advice. but the president doesn't want to hear it. >> he didn't go into the job with the strongest footing, he was confirmed by the senate only 58-41. he had a bad hearing going in. there had been sourcing out of the department of defense saying that the management wasn't quite up to speed and so now you have this today. the timing is interesting because the secretary of defense is one of the big cabinet posts and the president also has a hearing that he'll have to get through for loretta lynch, the

attorney again general. >> you've got -- what's the first thing that goes? the only republican cabinet secretary, there he goes out the door. gates kit, panetta quit, hagel quit, three secretaries of defense quitting, you have sebelius who may or may not have been forced out. lisa jackson got thrown out, maybe geithner got thrown out, we're not sure about him either, who's picking these cabinet secretaries? president obama is, a good leader picks good people to surround himself around and a good leader wouldn't lose this many high level cabinet members. >> do you think this comes at a bad time for the white house. >> i do. and i don't know why they're so proud of the fact that they're pushing him out. the last thing they need right

now is a new confirmation hearing for a new secretary of defense. let's face it, americans don't care who the secretary of defense is. this turnover is generally not unusual after the last midterm at six years, but i don't think a lot of these people are going to make it through. >> and those weren't six years, those were in the last three or four. >> back in august when the isis threat really became very obvious, in the same week, president obama had referred to isis as jv and secretary hagel was on the hill testifying that he thought it was the most serious threat around the world and i think that's probably where the tension boiled over. >> i get the impression that it's not hagel, but it's a white house that digit see foreign policy as a priority.

secretary of defense is no morpt than a greeter at walmart. he looked at america as the troubled adversary who needed to be contained. america was ussr in the cold war for him. that's his foreign policy and somebody like hagel is kind of like a nonentity, it's not a big deal to him, go away. >> do you remember the hearings that hagel gave just after president obama with the jv and then there was a beheading, i think it was right after a beheading. i just remembered it when you said that. hagel was very dismissive of what the president said, i remember -- >> i also heard that the charlie rose interview that secretary hagel reechbltly gave was the final straw. if you need a clue as to whether

somebody on background would get the phrase, make no mistake, the secretary was fires, who says make no mistake all the time? >> this is a reflection of the national security team in the white house. if you've got a good national security team, things work well. if you don't, the secretary of state and the secretary of defense is out there on their own. we're awaiting an announcement as well on the grmg decision on whether to indict darren wilson for the shooting of michael brown. and there's a report on the benghaz

committee -- on and an tie

muslim video. while the report claims there was no intel failure, it says there was an intel failure. my head hurts, why do rice and hillary blame that flick anyway. were they grubering thinking americans were dumb enough to believe anything, or did they believe that a video was at fault. to blame physical evil on words or art scares me. we arrested somebody for -- when people attack us, normally we blame the attackers. but here, we blamed art, maybe architecture was at fault for the world trade center attack, who knows? that's the crime, a moral failing of an administration upset with blaming the west. but the right got greedy with conspiracy. they put fritos on a pizza when they should have kept it simple. argue within your ability to explain and your listeners

ability to understand. all the president's men was once the name of a book, but now it describes the media. it's still incredible, dana that a guy was put in jail. he wasn't a great guy, he violated parole but he was put in jail and there was no outcry from the media except for here. this >> this is the thing that always bothered me. i remember it like it was yesterday, sending an aere-mail you. if his bank fraud violation was so egregious, why wasn't it done the day before? i can't believe that anybody

allowed that to happen a new report came out, i think the federalist does an amazing job, go to the federal ils.com and look at 20 points in this report. it actually makes this report look a little weak. >> you see a gleeful liberal media who used to salvate over corruption. >> lethal liberal media. >> you remember the six guys that megan kelley had on her show? who said they were unequivocally told to stand down. two people died after they were told to stand down. i believe those guys, i believe those guys more than i believe a report that some people who weren't there are putting together based on some second and third-hand information. four people, woods, smith and dougherty are dead and still to this day when you see hillary

clinton and president obama standing over those draped coffins at edwards air force base, blaming the video when they knew at the time it had nothing to do with the video. i don't care what comes out, that's absolutely atrocious. >> the question about the video is still very pertinent. but the fact of the matter is, a lot of these allegations were made about standing down, this is a republican intelligence committee, they're the ones who issued this report. they have taken all of your conspiracy theories and thrown them in the trash. >> i didn't make that comment, those six guys did. we were told stand down, who gave you the order? a guy named bob. >> that was directly tied into the cia. why would they, bob? you have to come u up with some kind of conspiracy theory on your own that these guys would all get together in the middle of a terror attack and all conspire and say that they were told to stand down. it doesn't make any sense. >> why would the intelligence

committee come one that finding? >> because this report is so thin and woefully inadequate. >> you can't blame obama about everything. >> it's not about obama, it's about the truth. you try to throw his name out as some kind of justification. >> it's just like you said, it had nothing to do with al qaeda. yeah, right. this was a concerted terror attack, people from different countries, al qaeda, al sharia together doing this and why did they push the video if they knew they weren't up to something. >> stand down. i have plenty of answers. >> you don't. >> dana, did you have something you wanted to say. >> all right, we're going to move on. ahead t grrmg's decision on the ferguson police officer who shot michael brown is in and we're awaiting that announce. next a tv host is professing his

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♪ ah, ♪ h it. ♪ push it. ♪ p...push it real good! ♪ ♪ ow! ♪ oooh baby baby...baby baby. if you're salt-n-pepa, you tell people to push it. ♪ push it real good.

it's what you do. ♪ ah. push it. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. ♪ ah. push it. i'm pushing. i'm pushing it real good! all right. welcome back. time for -- the fastest 6 1/2 minutes on television. three zesty stories, three zippy minutes. did you see the spoof of obama overriding the conversation. ♪ i wound up on the president's desk snepd ♪ >> president obama, what's the big idea? that bill's trying to come along. >> i know that, but you know what, son? there's actually an easier way

to get things done here. ♪ i'm an executive order and i pretty much just happened ♪ ♪ i'll create a national park or a new holiday ♪ ♪ or grant legal status to 5 million undocumented immigrants ♪ >> oh, my god, i didn't have time to read myself. >> that didn't sit well with main stream media, immediate lay "the washington post" actually fact checked the comedy skit. you got to ask united states, how far are these liberal media going to go to protect the white house. >> you know what? it's funny and everything, but he already won, it doesn't matter, it's like poking fun at trump for being rich, he's a billionaire, it's not like he's going to be poor because you made fun of him. if you had made the joke about the bill, it would have been fun to make that joke during the obama care debate. >> okay, so he won, we have the

comedy, we get that out of the way, but i'm shocked to see to the "washington post" do that. >> it just seems to me that somebody needs more to do on a saturday night than doing a fact check on a "saturday night live" skit. >> what a big weekend. >> the other thing is, i love schoolhouse rock, but that is a generation x video. i mean, if you don't -- millennials, if you don't know schoolhouse rock, you can entertain yourself for hours. >> i learned so much from that schoolhouse rock. i thought this was funny and it would have been nice if they had done it during obama care. >> it's a wonder that saturday night as much big ratings. >> bill maher took some grief for talking about radical islam, this week he's even further into the hole he's been digging.

>> i agree. i have heard nobody else in america say that. everybody on the left and the right, oh, how could he call america stupid? >> jonathan gruber, you have met your soul mate. >> how this is even controversial i have no idea. >> they're stupid. >> gruber was right. >> gruber was right, he just said what people don't want to hear. >> gruber's right, kg. >> i don't think americans are stupid, i think we get it and i think in 2016, perhaps some better choices are going to be made, and there should be choices that people make on decision making that is based on information. equip yourself with the fact so you choose correctly. because there's long lasting ramifications. >> democrats voted for it so therefore it must be stupid. >> when you have 60% of the eligible voters in america not

voting, let's not jump all over -- it was a bad choice of words, but the american people do not stay keyed into these debates for the most part. we do because it's part of our living, but out there, do you think they pay a lot of attention to it? no. >> i actually think people pay a lot of attention, i think it had a lot to do with the turnouts and the election decisions in 2012 and 2013. >> when maher said that gruber said what people didn't want to hear. we need to tell people there's no such thing as a free lunch, your deductibles are going to go up, your prescriptions might cost more, your taxes might go up. and let people decide that. >> the amazing thing is, these elitist creeps were insulting their studio audience. no one who was critical of obama care in the town hall was

tricked by this. it was only the fools who clapped at this elitist crap who were tricked by this. i actually find that kind of heart warming to insult this audience and they don't even know it. >> bob wanted to get to this. the new york giants are having terrible year, it got worse last night when they lost to the dallas cowboys. >> manning is going to heave one, oh, there's a flag. how in the world? >> oh, my goodness. >> and brand was back there. he is insane, how do you make that catch? >> lsu unanimouses say that's what's o'dell has been doing for years. >> i tell you, the thing that's amazing got that is you have to keep in mind, he touched the ball and flipped it backwards. it came off of his hands and

then he reached behind him and got it on the second try. i haven't seen anything like it. i think it's just remarkable. >> i don't know, though, were you there? no, you weren't, so how dow you know this really happened? how do you know this is not just a bunch of crisis actors hired by president obama to deflect his next executive order which is to make him get a third term. this never happens. >> it probably happened in the nasa parking lot. >> you're missing the whole point of this because wake across the country are going, my god, what hands. >> what hands. >> that is exactly what we're thinking. >> yeah. >> what hands. >> is that what i'm supposed to be thinking? >> next on the five, the grand jury in the ferguson case is reached and greta van sustren is joining us in just a minute. stay tuned.

a grand jury has reached a decision on whether to indict darren wilson in the shooting death of michael brown. let's bring in on the record host greta van sustren.

da dana raised an interesting point. this is the time to be announcing this. >> some people are saying the reason why they want to do it now is they want rush hour traffic to clear, they want kids home from school because they believe those who want to cause trouble will cause trouble any time so they at least want to make it safer for people in the 2345ibd. >> greta, i don't know if anyone's gotten your opinion, besides kimberly, one of the smartest people we know in law. what's your thing. do you think they're going to indict or not? >> you should listen to kimberly, she's been in the courtrooms as a prosecuting opportunity. but people like kimberly can indict a ham sandwich. but it didn't take a lot to indict. this is not a trial that is beyond a reasonable doubt and leads to a conviction.

i was always the defense attorney so i always thought my clients would get inindicted. the defense lawyer wasn't in there, someone like kimberly would have been in there listening but not the defense lawyer. kimberly can give you an idea of what kind of grilling he got, but you're always worried when your client goes into a grand jury room alone. >> his attorney isn't allowed to go in and make a case in front of the grand juryors. it is very easy to obtain an indictment if there is credible evidence to put forward. if the da elects to go forward on those charges to determine the strength of the evidence. but i don't know, greta, i'm just curious how you think this might come down, because with your sources, resources that you have, you have been able to get quite a bit of information including the autopsy report,

pathology, et cetera. >> you raise those, kimberly and i actually think that's what this case will turn on for the grand jury. eyewitness testimony is inhernltly unreliable. two people can witness the same accident and one person will say it's a blue car and one will say a it was white. whether or not the clothes had any soot on it or any begin powder residue to indicate a lower shot, obviously a closer range shot will have -- if there's no burns on the deseed department, there's reason to believe that it was excessive force and not a reasonable fear. and where the shots. it will depend on the physical evidence, what they saw, but i think the officer went in essentially to plead for his life on this to say, look, i didn't do that, or -- the decedent wasn't there to testify but the officer was.

>> dana. >> greta, for darren wilson, what associate of security measures are being taken to protect his safety going forward after this decision is announced? >> i hope he does have some. if there's a no bill. if there's no indictment, he should have some security. or if there is an dpiindictmentd he's on the street, if there's a bond issue, if he's released pending trial. you don't get the death penalty if you're accused of something. many people on the street think that a man shouldn't get the death penalty by a police officer for robbing a convenience store. people want to take sides, and taking sides is grossly unfair to the decedent and grossry

unfair to the officer. and grocely unfair to the community. >> i'm always interested in the media, when you talk about it is a team sport. there's a sense of future unrest overhype and therefore self-fulfilling? >> i think there's a risk of that, greg. but on the other hand, do you give them more information so they take precautions? look at ebola, i actually think that the media went pretty wild about that, but as a consequence, we got pressure on the government to try to do something. so i don't think there's a perfect answer to that. we all have to exercise our own judgment we have held back on it until now, for approximate fear of trying to call managsomethin. i can see how people would be anxious to hear it. >> one more thing sup next.

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all right, it's time for one more thing. when you talk about katie perry, she's the big show for the super bowl. they started promoting this, the nfl did for super bowl xxxix. >> welcome to my halftime show. what if we colored the stage in

glitter. and the glilter was edible. >> i have the dancers, five, six, seven, eight, and one, and two. oh, it was great. >> there's some little animals in there for you. anyway, let's see if she's got a lot of hype to live up to, i think she can deliver. bob, can you? >> just to get that stuff out of football, there's no place for it. i have been around a little bit, as you probably know, and once in a while i try to give you a little bit of advice from my experiences, some of which are terrible. i have one thing that i say on my answering machine, i know you don't use that term anymore. i said there's no such thing as a bad day. and i believe that. the kind of messages i get back. think about this, if you think about a day in the course of a day, some kids give you a good smile, somebody's letting giving you a line, don't ever get down on a day. >> do you not have a one more

thing? >> i don't, i had that, we talked about this before. i was going to give my sage advice. >> there's no such thing as a good day. >> that's for sure for you. time for greg's medical tips brought to you by greg gutfeld. thanksgiving's coming up so that means you're going to eat a lot. remember that for every m&m that you eat, you have to walk one block, it's true. every m&m you eat you have to walk one block. which is why munch kins on a treadmill, but if you want to exercise less, stay away from the candy and stick to meat and booze. >> i think that's like animal cruelty. >> munch kin is awesome.

>> this is a dog whose name is arthur. but he didn't have a name before these guys came along. they go through the amazon jungle. they found this stray dog, they gave their dog one meat ball, they couldn't shake him, he stayed with them for 20 miles, they went kayaking, he was full of mud and everything. they too long him to the vet. he got a clean bill of health and the department of agriculture allowed him do go and be adopted. >> this is the best story. >> eric, i don't know if you can beat one more thing. >> last night i watched the ama ass amazing, garth brooks was great. but imagine tthe amazing drag g

out. >> this has been fun. and don't forget to catch greta later tofblt on on ferguson. set your dvr so you don't misan episode of "the five." "special report" is next. >> this is a fox news alert. i'm bret baier in washington. we are awaiting a decision in the ferguson grand jury's decision on the police shooting. it could also spark protests in the st. louis suburb as well as in urban centers and other parts of the country, at issue, did white police officer darren wilson shoot justifiably when he shot michael brown on august 9. shep? >> reporter: a number of matters at hand tonight, we're expecting to hear 30 minutes or so