we' . >> we're going into this tonight on fbn. this is "the five." here's both sides of the ferguson debate in 90 seconds. it's open opinion on black youths by cops. actually no it's open season on black youths by black youths, it's the cops trying to stop it. a black youth didn't shoot that teen, the cop did. while the cop felt threatened )zl. well, he was also violent and he attacked the cop.

you're just going to site with whitey because your justice system is rigged in this racist society. but you say that about everything, what if it were a black cop. whose fault is that? the police or a -- why not become a cop and change things? well, why would we want to be part of a corrupt system that's stacked against blacks. that's a circular argument, you don't want to change the system because the system is corrupt. not wait a minuting to be a cop is your cop out. anyway, can we agree on one thing? sure. that darlene is a big moron? in "time" magazine, she defends rio rioting. her office was never in danger of being torched by those she defends. you're right, she is a moromoro. at least we can agree on one

thing. thanks, darlena, year stupidity is so fast, it could unite all of america. what do you make of somebody -- i feel like, if she had owned, this woman had owned a beauty shop, she might have felt differently about the joyousness of rioting. >> and by the way, they got all the beauty shops, so in more weaves in ferguson. what you've got down there is businesses that are destroyed. unemployment in ferguson just went up, 5% in daughters, they

who's breaking into these stores. >> a lot of people from ferguson, don't want these riots, white, black,

african-americans, come up to us and say these are our businesses, we see them bussing in these professional protesters, the unions are bussing in people, they don't want any of it because they're too intimidated to stand up to the rioters because they're afraid. >> a 90-year-old black woman, she and her son were walking out to the car, she didn't want to talk and thin she looked and said you know what? you want to come bleak things in your neighborhood, i should be able to follow you home and break yours. the people in the neighborhood, they won't put up with this anymore. the businesses in the neighborhood, they want all the people gone, a lot of them. >> they complain about the community, they're unfairly treated, but they're the ones that are tearing up the community, one store at a time, ble breaking windows, terrorizing,

ferguson is going to be remembered this way by people who have no interest in being part of the solution. >> what strikes me, the argument at this time is oh, it's bourgeois to actually engage the political process. if you look back another the civil rights movement, when segregation was the law, and it was -- they're fighting much greater odds than in ferguson, and what did they do? they engaged the process, they appealed to people's humanity, to our common christianity, they appealed to the idea that we all are patriots and we believe in the founding fathers' creed in us all being equal. but these people don't want to engage the american process, which is being held together as the american people, but they want to destroy their own community.

>> they don't even understand some of the simple arguments here, the michael brown law that they started to float out there, cameras on all the police. i stood out there and heard dozens of people not wanting to be filmed by the place while they were protesting. >> i think it's -- i'm talking about citizens, we're going to come out here and protest, but don't film us. >> when i was watching this on youstream, they would be taunting the police, so they could film the police doing something. but they don't want to get filmed. >> juan hits the nail on the head, civil rights wasn't won because of protests, it was won because they engaged the system and they changed the laws. >> people who want to jump in front of a tv camera, these people are hustlers, they're in for the money. but if you want to change the system, it's a long-term issue.

>> why don't you ask al sharpton who comes out there at 11:00 a.m., and stands in front of the church. nobody says okay, al, what law are you going to come back here, when the riots, when the protests are over and what are you going to do find the solution? >> that's the problem with you people, you're too educated. but let me say, why can't you stay to that man, to sharpton, where are you to stop the riots from starting, if you're a great leader, why don't you do that. >> he's not interested in that. he goes down there and he gives the flowery speech, but he never talk about -- >> how much of the black community understands that? do they get that? that he's a race hus cltler and he's only --

>> they sacry al sharpton is a voice for the black community. al ran for president one time. how did he do. >> al ran for mayor here, how did that go? >> david, it's my turn. i want to talk about, whenever we get into these kinds of debates, a counter point is always black on black crime. it circulates as a rejoinder to when a police officer shoots a black individual, that somebody says, well what's worse is black on black crime. this police chief ed flynn went off after a commission meeting, they asked why he had checked his cell phone during a committee meeting. >> what is your response to some people that thought you were being disrespectful by being on your phone and not being attentive. >> well i was on my phone, yes that's true, i was following a

little girl who was shot in the head while sitting on her dad's lap why a drive by shooting. soft people -- the greatest racial dpis party of the city in milwaukee is getting shot and killed. hello, 80% of may homicide victims every year, are african-american, 80% of my assault victims are african-american. 80% of our shooting victims who survive their shooting are african-american. they know all about to the last three people who have been killed by the milwaukee police department over the course of the last several years. fr there's not one of them that can name is last three homicide skrikts we have had in this city. there's room for everybody in fixing this police department. and i'm not pretending we're without sin, but this community is at risks all right, it's not because men and women in blue risk their lives protecting it, it's that there are handguns in

the arms of remorseless criminals who don't care what they shoot. know i'm leaving here to go to that scene and i take it personally. we're going up there and there's a bunch of cops processing the scene of a dead kid, and the only ones that are going to be stopping that process, they're the ones that are going to be risking their lives frying to clean this up. we're the first to react when things happen, we have arrested cops, we have fired cops, but people out here, who have the most to say are actually mia when they face the true nets facing the community. when you're contribute sized for reading about a kid who got shot, yes, i'm a little defensive. >> that's what's going on. the reality, i live in a black neighborhood, that's the reality, that he's talking about. >> uh-huh. >> yeah. i don't think he minced words,

andrea. >> and rudy giuliani is taking a lot of heat for answering a question about cops go where there's high crime and if you start to impede cop from doing their jobs, biff eric holder came out and said on a federal level we're going to do something to try and restore faith in cops. if they start to do at the doj what i think they're going to do, nen u you're stopping cops from going into those high crime years and actually keeping kids safe. if you don't believe me, look at the "washington post," in victims and offers, blacks are disproportionately offended. when rudy was well on point, and hiss point was, look, michael brown was hurting the quality of life, because he was in the middle of the street, he was impeding the police from doing their jobs, he progressives do not want cops to be able to ask

people questions, they would rather have you if you see somebody doing something damps, just go away and keep cops from doing their jobs. >> i think police belong in the community, protecting people of any color that deserve p protection. the high percentage of violent crimes committed by blacks, are most often committed by black people. but if you look at cops, the whole argument about stop and risk, about driving while you're black, about racial profiling, there's a fear offense being stereotyped, that david and i would be walking down the street and saying, there ee's black gu they're not doing anything wrong, but we're going to stop them. >> crime is commune kl, and kimberly you know this as a

prosecutor, so in a majority wide area, whether it's a poor area or sub economic level, you're going to get crime white on white, black on black, it is communal. so if you don't deal with the issue from that point of view as a crime, you never get to the real issue of this argument. it's not one to one white on white versus black on black. >> but the thing is, skrg worked as a prosecute never los angeles and really impoverished neighborhoods and communities were struggling because of gang violence, i cannot tell you how appreciative that those people in the communities are that there's police there at night that keep the streets state of for their children to go to school in the morning. that's where you need to get the community policing, have people come together and invest in the community and work in a partnership with the police department. i have seen it done very well, throughout the state of california for sure, throughout new york. these are models that can be adopted. law abiding people, they don't mind if the police are there making sure that they're safe,

that businesses can open, that the economy can flourish in these neighborhoods, that there are jobs to be had. that is part of partnership of building here. and when you have people who are so fill with the rage and vitri vitriol, they don't want to hear anything about the solution and they'll use a situation like this and the death of a young man, regardless of the facts, they're deaf to it just because they want to push their cause or get money for their organization, like al sharpton, shame on him, because he shouldn't sleep at night for what he is responsible for in ferguson. >> but i just want to say, first of all, i thought what you said was just beautiful. i couldn't glee more. i will say i'm disappointed in the ferguson police, because they didn't build that trust relationship and after the shooting, they made things worse by leaving the body in the street, by not speaking to people about what happened, not making it clear as officer wilson has in his interview.

>> now we have learned from it. >> they shouldn't leave the body in the street. you're right on that one. >> they could have said something right at the top, but they didn't. >> they could have informed the people, but there was an investigation. >> they could have processed the scene, took the photographs so there would be no question. but until a team comes out to photograph the scene, you can't do that. >> coming up, darren wilson have any choice about hiss actions? >> he didn't do what he had to do, he did what he wanted to do. >> more reaction from brown's parents, the first tv interview of the man who killed their son next.

in his first tv interview on the death of michael brown, police officer darren wilson said he would have been killed on that day if he hadn't pulled the trigger. brown's parents wide receiv s w. >> he gets eight to ten feet, and he kind of leans forwardlike he's going to attack me. i fired my gun and he charged me and he said he was going to kill me. >> so you killed him first. >> i don't believe a worth of it. i know my son far too well, he would never do anything like

that, he would never provoke anyone to do anything to him. >> he didn't have to do what he had to do. >> he did what he wanted to do, he wanted to kill someone. >> the problem is, despite the exhaustive evidence that was presented that didn't need to be presented to gave essentially a full homicide trial, in front of this grand jury, he even testified and grand jury subjects never testify because it's crazy to do so because you can get handed serious charges, you want to have your right to go to trial et cetera, but he was there to tell the truth to try and be transparent and if you look at all the witnesses, it's not consistent to what the barnts are saying. they're just blind to the facts. >> i feel for the parents, i don't feel for michael brown, he was a thug who committed a

robbery and he is guilty of helping incite a lot of this. eight to ten feet at 6'3" is three steps. how fast when someone's rushing you are three steps when you're in that moment? think about it, anybody who ever played football or any sport. >> look at it for what it is. >> and the statements corroborated, steve, witness number ten said he couldn't believe how quickly michael brown was charging towards the officer. when you look at these trance kri79s and you see this inspection, it's not a racist grand jury, they did their job. >> can i just get rid of something here? when you get into a fight with a cop, physical confrontation, it doesn't matter if you're black, white, black-black, white-black.

asian-black. it doesn't matter what the respon response, no matter what the response is. >> none of this is going to convince anyone, this is a postscript of the actions of the weak. this story was about a conflict that we knew was going to happen, we noaa knew there was going to be an exploitation of explosivesness, a riotriot. if you believe wilson is innocent, that's not going to change your mind. if you believe he's guilty, that's not going to change your mind. >> i disagree with you because i think, one, i think an officer's responsibility is to diffuse the situation, he could have called for backup. he could have stayed in his car and driven away. there's conflicting testimony in the grand jury about this, this was an injured person, i don't know what they're going to do to

you at this point. th's six shots, and then the final point i would make to you, kimberly is this, i think there is a responsibility here in terms of giving the police leeway to do their job. i'm all for it. i think that's why, you know, the thin blue line concept exists, we all rely on the police to protect us. but at some point there has to be transparency in that grand jury process. there's the question of transparency, why is it, when as you say, most grand jurys indict anything including a ham sand witch, why in this case do we not have any opportunity to cross-examination the officer. >> that's not the way the grand jury works, but i tell you what, every single panel member of that grand jury is allowed to question and cross-examination the officer. not some fancy lawyer, but people in the community asking the questions and he had to answer them. you're allowed to submit those questions. >> but there's no attorney representing the victim.

and that's what happens in court. >> what do you think would happen at a trial? that is why is prosecutor handed it over to a grand jury. >> he handed it over to protect himself. so he was chn't responsible. >> michael brown's mother makes it sound like cops want to go out and shoot anyone. wilson's career is over, that's not something cops want to do, because they know their lives can be ruined over it. when it goes to the grand jury, they get all of the evidence. there are people who are saying, wait a minute, they put too much evidence out, it's so much harder to convict in a trial. what would have happened if they brought dorian johnson on the stand, and what if they didn't find him guilty until a few years later. is that just pushing off all these riots? >> it's a harder burden after the grand jury.

>> i somewhere to agree with juan on this, because, this wasn't supposed to be a mock trial. you have a very low bar to decide whether you're going to indict or not. you're not supposed to have a trial behind closed doors. >> why are you hiding the truth? people don't understand because they're not attorneys. if you put evidence before a grand jury, this is the best way to decide if there's any shred of evidence, put it forward and let them decide. they had five option, five charges, they heard from the state medical examiner, they heard everything. people have to correct the record, because people don't know about a grand jury. >> i was always under the impression that a grand jury has a low bar, you don't have to introduce all the information, you don't have the defendant show up. that is for a trial. and then the trial in a way is for the public to decide. and that's not going to happen. >> it's probable cause --

>> the grand jury will lay it out to the prosecutor. if this was fbt a legally justified shooting, this guy would have been indicted. they have five options, i promise you this. read the transcript. >> you act like you're a lawyer or something, kimberly. who got in front of the camera to fuel the fire? al sharpton. that's next. stay with us.

msnbc host al sharpton made his way back into the ferguson fray today. he held another press conference alongside the families this time of michael brown. and he had some words for st. louis county prosecutor bob mccullough. >> imagine watching a prosecutor come out, and not only announce

no indictment, but disparage the character of your son, call them a thief, call them everything he can and then call on the witness's life. this is a no bill, we have been through that, but to go through a whole sermon denouncing your son and you have to finding enough strength to say don't be violent while your child is being disparaged. how do we know what michael brown's side of the story is. but the prosecutor said it like it had been a trial rather than an inquiry. >> should sharpton be pushing himself to the frongtd of another catastrophe in one of his stifcivil rights activist ts that al should get out of the way. >> you don't need to be center stage, brother. get out of the way of the

camera, let the young folks speak, get out of the way of the camera, let them tell their truths. >> this to me is, i mean i first of all, when the trouble starts, where the al sharptop to say to people, rioting is not in the best interest of the black community, it's going to take away the discussion about the black community and all the rest. now he's there when the cameras are there, and what's he doing? disparaging to my mind bob mccullough. self-serving? i don't want to be -- >> it's more than self serving, let's put it in real terms for al sharpton. michael brown is his knew tuwanna brawly, he uses the sway, his relevance has been brought back. outside of the press conference,

where is he? is he going to be in ferguson in a week, in six months? no. >> yeah, he'll move on. but the secret is a moral investment in the community. but you can't win when the leader is a hindrance to the policing. a civil rights leader should want to at least communicate with law and order, but he prevents communities from saving themselves by creating a conflict between law and order. as if cracking down on rioters and looters somehow decides rights to ri rights to rioter. >> there's a right to protest, but there's no a right to destroy my home and my business. >> does sharpton think that officer wilson shouldn't have stopped michael brown? because officer wilson stopped him because he suspected he was the one that robbed the convenience store and it was a quality of life infraction, was

it not? he was preventing the traffic from going through, so that's why he was pulled over. people like al sharpton, don't believe that cops should do that. and if you're a cop, and you ski a suspect with a packet of cigarillos going forward, are you going to stop him going forward? no, because you're going to have the eyes of national television on you if you screw up or something happens. >> you need to do your job, because islt's affecting me. on the other hand i don't want them profiling. >> you sound very scared. >> i sound what? >> you want the buddy system? i want to take u you through the neighborhoods. >> i'm sure if you were in the car with me and a cop stopped many. i would belike, oh, kimberly, do you want to write that phone number down? cornel west is right, when you

say there's younger people who are engaged in the system, who aren't just out there for the cameras and al, get out of the way. >> i think he's part of the problem. i'm sorry, if i thought his heart was in the right place, i would say okay, but i think he's an opportunisopportunist. >> still to come, as the main stream press media beener

ferguson police officer dpar republican wilson has received death threats is since the michael brown shooting. so why would the newspaper -- mentioned the street and town where wilson and his wife lives. which begs the question, should journalists be more responsible in their reporting of the case. a lot of reporters have been twisting the facts of this

story. >> more than a few journalists, especially on television are trying to turn this into a civil rights story, but you know what? ferguson, missouri is not selma, alabama. 20141 not 1965 and michael brown is not till or edgars. it's a tragedy when any 18-year-old is killed, especially for the parents, we certainly sympathize with that, but michael brown was the bad guy in this case, and please, america, let's not turn this kid into some kind of civil rights martyr, because that is he is not. >> all right, well, greg, that's no the story line that a number of media outlets video told us from the get-go. >> media outlets like this story because they can dress them up later in that majestic memories. so that 30 years from now, they

can say, yeah, i was in ferguson, i got hit by a rubber bullet. you wouldn't understand. civil rights stories trump crime stories for storytelling capability. that's why everybody likes to say they were a part of it to say that they were there. >> that's why they call it riot porn. >> from the beginning, we sea saw networks like, i'm just going to call them out, running with the story line that michael brown was an unarmed man who was trying to surrender and this gentnegligengentle gingt and th the case. >> i feel sorry for the fact that michael brown somehow went into this life of crime and decided it was okay to beat up a store owner that's trying to make a living for his family and commit a forcible robbery, stealing property that wasn't

his, where did that child go wrong? do the parents want to answer that? as a parent, i would be devastated if my son because engaged in criminal activitilike that. that's an inconvenient truth, because they want to make a martyr out of him. it's terrible that he lost his life, but whabl officer wilson, was he supposed to give his instead? would that make them happy? >> also that character assassination charge was lobbed out there, when the convenience store video was released and it doesn't match up with the narrative that was manufactured. >> not many people watch cnn anymore because nobody wants them for news, they watch them for commentary, and what's really bad about it is that the people in ferguson are going to serve because of the lies by dorian johnson. people pay the price for media

irresponsibility. >> and how about -- >> i think that's totally irresponsible. and the fact is i think they were also showing a copy of their marriage license. i think that's unseemly and of course not in keeping with journalistic responsibility. no matter what you think about it, i will say i don't agree if the kid's going to be a felon. he certainly was guilty of whatever he was doing in that store. >> i'm not disparaging, i'm telling the truth, it's unfortunate. believe me, it's awful, because he was caught on tape. a robbery is a felony, juan. >> i don't think there's force used against the guard. >> use of force, jump into the final code. up next, did the white house collaborate with missouri's governor to keep the national guard off the streets of ferguson this week when the violence broke out? a stunning accusation, from the

state's lieutenant governor, up nex

black. when ferguson erupted into violence on monday night, a lot

of people wanted to know yes the national guard was, including the st. louis mayor. >> the national guard was not deployed in enough time to save all of our businesses. the decision to delay the deployment of the national guard is deeply concerning. >> many are asking if the obama administration pressured governor jay nixon to suppress the deployment of the national guard. >> governor nixon owes us all some answers. my question is, why was the national guard called out? was it because as i suspect may be the case, that officials in washington, d.c. and the baltimore administration and the holder justice department, perhaps eric holder himself or someone doing his bidding, leaned on someone very hard not to call in the national guard. >> nobody can prove or disprove that. in august when i was there, the

national guard were essential l policemen or traffic cops in the parking lot. that night as the rioters were running all around me, it took until 2:30 in the morning for them to actually show up. >> i think the bigger story is, it seems like they blinked before the standoff began, they were so -- they overreacted to is scrutiny and the criticism that they had acted too cop like before so they left back a little bit. >> did they not want to put out this image, like giuliani said, being tough. >> he did declare a state of emergency, which i know that the obama emergency urged him not to do, because it would ramp up the tension. as you say, bomb ticks is part

of it. >> you can't prove it. andre andrea, politics aside, the president didn't answer the 2:30 a.m. call. >> we don't know if he got a call before that telling him not to answer the call. we heard from the obama administration, and president obama a couple of months ago, the cops are being too heavy handed. now what happened after the first night of rioting, where are the national guard, where are the cops? you cannot have it both ways. >> if you're a conservative, are you going to say that mill tarization of the police -- >> they cared more about the optics and the way it looked and the visual the way it would be presented to the world, instead of the the community of ferguso >> all right, one more thing next.

one more thing, andrea? >> i know this friend of kimberly, and he's got spinal muscular atrophy. and he was invited to see a football game. many of you are familiar with als from the ice bucket challenge. he invited little miller on to the field with the saints on the field. look at miller, high-fiving him after the game. it's so precious. if you wanting to google this wonderful charity, go to the bottom of the screening for information. thanks to steve gleason for a wonderful inspiring story for all the people who have sms and

als. look at this. >> the wait is over. alphonso and libby! >> you know, ms. carlton from fresh prince of bel air, so knew who he could answer like that, he beat out one of the favorites. also you can catch me tonight, i'm doing a full hour on ferguson, on the record at 7:00 p.m. in for greta. >> i got warmed up. time for beg's sports. . >> my favorite time of the year, plps playoffs, round one, we got fluffy mcpuffin', doing their free style. watch this final move, it's about to happen, it's going to blow your mind, go for it. there you go. look at that, amazing.

her primary competitor is whiskers mcgee, who's known for the head trap right here. that's good, and then does an odd dance and then as able in a matter of seconds to get it out. if you want to know who won, just tweet me. >> whiskers mcgee. >> bob craft, the owner of the new england patriots sent me sneakers over the weekend. it's for the boston boys and girls club, nike has put out this shoe called the owner's line in honor of mr. craft and all the nfl owners, and they' l you mr. craft. >> what about the redskins. >> i don't say that.

>> this is a community business owner in ferguson, natalee, opened her bakery business, natalee's cakes and more. didn't have any business, she opened in june and august after the shooting. nobody showed up. as of 4:00 p.m. today, over 137,0$137,000 raised to help he rebuild. and a shoutout to brigadier general john michelle, air force general who commanded our air force in afghanistan. >> don't miss our thanksgiving special tomorrow night. it is amazing, it will blow your mind. anyway, "special report" is up next. thththththth happy thanksgiving. it's thursday, november 27th. america's most lovable characters coming to light today. balloons for the big's macy's parade. we're live along the parade

route. and shop or not to shop. the stores working with tradition so workers can be home for the holidays. and the new stuffer this year kouk obamacare? the big health care sales pitch cometing to a mall near you. fox and friends starts right now. ♪ >> and thank you and happy thanksgiving to you and good morning. i'm heather childers. >> we're thankful that you started your day with us. that we get to start our cay with you on fox and friends first. we're talking turkey this

morning from cooking to carving. we have you covered. a butter ball turkey talk line expert is here. there she is. she's answering all your questions this morning on facebook. log on to the fox and friends first facebook page and let her know how she can help you. we're cracking the carving code. we have an expert carver live in the studio to show all of us how it is done. no pressure. >> and we need to know. >> all right. and first we have to tell you the weather moving out thanksgiving flight now back on track. roads are clearing up. after a nasty nor'easter caused a travel nightmare. hundred of flights were cancelled and thousands delayed. snow, sleet, and rain causing hundreds of accidents. >> but today it is a different story. the winter weather moving out. just in time for an annual tradition. the macy's thanksgiving day