mark on the debt, it's nothing new, it's still another thing to ignore these fiscal developments. we are in deep [ bleep ] my friends, and in just three hours, i'm going to spell it out, i'm going to pass along the ice issues. breaking news and more on that deadly school bus crash in knoxville, tennessee. local reports at least three people dead. we now have video of this and it is awful, the busses slammed into each other, one flipped over on the side as you can see this intersection here, it was chaotic, the one bus at the top of the screen looks like it pancaked, we know 20 students have been hurt, this was on east ashville road in knoxville. more as it comes in. "the five" starts now. it's 5:00 in new york city, and this is "the five".

you would have to be living under a rock to not be inundated with comment tear on ferguson. how did this become the biggest crime story in america or maybe in the world? maybe these guys had something to do with it. first the president in d.c. >> this is not a problem simply of ferguson, missouri, this is a problem that is national. what we need is a sustained conferring to hear young people feeling marginalized and distrustful even after they have is done everything right. that's not who we are. >> and just hours later, attorney general eric holder took the mike in atlanta. >> in the months since this incident occurred it has sparked a significant national

conversation to -- the rift that this tragedy exposed in ferguson and elsewhere must be addressed. >> so our president and our attorney general calling for ferguson to open a national conversation about race sure looks like a planned rollout from the base and the white house. bob, do you think this is a concerted effort by the white house to keep the race debate going. >> i think it's the right thing to do, the race debate has been going for a long time and it didn't begin with forget son and it will not end with ferguson. the few research stideddies on colle

college. >> you know what? and all you do is bad mouth and put down anybody who's white. they're making these huge -- >> i have tried to make some -- i said black men do not trust -- >> i'm a latina woman, you're a white man, i don't want to hear it. >> if you do surveys of black and college educated man. >> i don't understand, why do you mimic people by always labeling them by their skin color. be broader, be bigger than that. >> because black men have a distrust of the system. it's simple as that. >> it's a constant crucifixion from you. >> sis it smart for the white house and president obama almost a coordinated -- keeping the

debate up. while they do that? >> either you're part of the problem or you steer clear of it. because it seems to me whenever you try do get involved in the information, you're going to be wrong. you just saw that here. that if you have any kind of opinion that goes counter to i think the liberal conventional wisdom that blacks cannot trust cops, if you come at that from my other angle, even if you were black. >> i never said that, i did not say that. i said that black men have a distrust of the system. >> i think that's what i said, could this distrust be part of 40 years of pop culture instructing young black men not to trust the police, even though the police are there in their communities trying to prevent blacks from killing other blacks like giuliani said. you cannot have a national dialogue if the people you disagree with u you consider to be part of the problem. if a black person committing a crime on a white person, that is a crime.

if it is a white person committing a crime on a black person, it's race. because generally that might be a cop. so it's not a two-way street, and whenever there's a debate, it is the other side that is seen as racist and that kills the debate. >> can black people be considered racist? you will hear some of the most racist things, black men, al sharpton, you will hear it, but they're never considered or called racist. if you would take the exact opposite commentary from a white man or a white woman, they would clearly be called racist. >> it's part of the idea that the history that blacks have gone through, they're incapable of being accused of racism because of the injustice that they have experienced. that's what. >> dana, the white house, coordinat coordinated, not coordinated. they lost the midterms miserably.

is it smart to continue the race debate after the midterms. >> i thinkouse is just dealing with what the news cycle is. i think it makes sense for both of them to talk about it today because it's still on the front pages of the news, and sometimes it takes the white house a couple of days to think of the strategy. the president was talking about it yesterday, i don't think they're trying anything other than to deal with the news of the day. part of the problem is the big story of the day that deals for everybody of low income, white or black, is the front story of the "wall street journal" today which talks about the economic costs and the last six years, of how much prices have gone up across the board including on health care and electricity, how people aren't doing better. i think that the problem i have of talking about this is that the solidarity with michael brown would be more understandable if it was based on events that actually happened. the solidarity is currently being based on events that did not happen. so you cannot have a conversation on --- >> on a false truth.

>> this is an absolutely perfect transition to this hands up don't shoot has become the metaphor for the -- check out the prorace lobby is ratcheting up the rhetoric now. >> the ferguson grand jury's decision not to indict former officer darren wilson is yet another slap in our face. it was a painful reminder that just like with trayvon martin and tamir rice and others that law enforcement officers kill our black men and boys without repercussion. >> this was no jury of substance. >> let's stay with dana, a hang man's noose from the rev rengd. >> i think that's deeply

irresponsible and a disgrace. when you call someone a liar, there's really nowhere to go from there or when you say someone is a nazi, if you just look at the facts of the situation, i'm not saying there aren't grievances and i think the president, when he proposed to cameras for cops, that might be great, u but if that type of evidence is going to be important to a discussion like this, certainly the involve of what happened -- >> in the black community, young black men do not trust authority and they do not trust police. why that is, whether it's fair or not, whether it's accurate or not is not the issue. >> and all white people. >> that was all white people?

i said people in authority. i said people in authority. >> it was inartful what you said anyway. >> it was inartfully said, but it goes back to the point that they do not have a great deal of trust and i think there's a lot of reasons for it, period. >> i think they don't have a lot of trust, but why ask that? if you have half of the homicide are committed by blacks and they're 13% of the population, the police officers have to go to that community and they have to deal with it. so they're already in an interesting position, where they are the authority and they are trying to reduce crime and there are people that don't want them in, and there are people that want them there and they are so grateful that they are there. my theory is that they are holding politicians captive. if you don't kiss sharpton's ring, he will foment violence. right now we have a chokehold case in new york city, that's coming up.

it could get ugly, what are you going to do? eric holder says we are cow words when it comes to race-baiting, we won't talk to the race baiters and call them on their bluff. >> where were president obama and eric holder, remember the knockout game? it was predominantly black people walking up to white people punching them. my son knows better than to do this, however if he knocked off a convenience store and punched a cop in the face and he tried to take his gun and the cop happens to be black, i guarantee you i'm not out here saying he was shot because that cop was a racist? >> that durveoesn't make sense. this hands up don't shoot has been disproved because the individual that said it was retracted in the grand jury. that disproves it. they are repeating something that has been proved to be false. eric holder didn't do any favors

to ferguson because he helped foment this with his rhetoric. why are they not, president obama and eric holder respecting the rule of the law and the decision of the people that presided over this in the grand jury? >> among black young men in ferguson, you're right about obama and holder, i suppose, but they simply do not believe it. >> all right, bob, rather than hands up don't shoot -- >> the juries are stacked. i don't know what else to tell you, you're living in la la land if you don't believe it. at least accept the fact that they feel it. >> i believe that, i believe that, however you can't have a discussion with leaders if they're refusing to listen to solutions. >> that's correct. >> can i add one quick solution? dana, the highest dropout rate among any race, blacks, 32% across the board, almost double the white dropout rate, rather

than hands u up, two hands up, how about one hand up in a classroom, that metaphor that you just showed, those are three congressional black caucus leaders on the floor of the house today with their hands up. why? >> i think part of the reason is that national conversations tipptend to have a short shelf life. after sandy hook, we were going to have a sustained conversation about mental health in this country, it lasted for about three weeks, there's been some good legislation introduced by the lead congressman of pennsylvania, i don't think it's gone anywhere. and that conversation ebbs and flows. all these solutions that have been talked about so far, they need better training, there's been no national conversation about the root cause, which

would be a helpful one to have, but i think it's going to have to wait until the next presidential election to emerge because this situation is toxic. >> the situation is that there are entirely inferior schools for black people. >> they're public schools. >> but they're inferior. >> let's get in this here, we have been talking a lot about what in the aftermath of ferguson what's been good, what's been bad, what's causing the racial tension, let's go to bill o'reilly. >> the protesters who did not assault the police, are guilty of aiding and abetting those who did by providing them cover and support. the mob also did something else, it set back race relations in america years. >> bill o'reilly is saying the protests are really setting back race relations in america. >> it's based on a set of circumstances that actually didn't occur. it's upsetting to me that police

officers who go out there every night and put their life on the line, the only way this kind of mob mentality is going to be -- is if that the cop comes down in a pine box. you can bhai on drugs and you can go and beat up a cop and then go and take the cop's gun, u you're still the one that's okay, you're still the victim. >> i don't think mr. o'reilly was condemning protests, i think what he's talking about are the radicals who are piggy backing on severe distress. there are people who are agging this on. they're bloggers, they're activists, they don't own businesses. we know that blacks kill blacks and whites kill whites, but there are shopkeepers that are asian and serbians and indians and arabs. it's actually about proximity,

it's the people that are brave enough to stay in these communities as these communities fall apart. it's the immigrants who stay in these communities and start businesses. in fact this is why i keep thinking yes to amnesty, because it really is a homestead act. let these people come in and redid these cities and if they can do it, they get citizenship and we should expand this awareness of victim hood, there are all types of victims of violence, they are not just blacks, they are not just whites, rasheed kkabla was killd on christmas, we should be posting these stories of those people getting killed and sending them to your leaders and letting them know there are all kinds of victims of violence and they are american. >> can i just comment on o'reilly's comments? i actually thought when i saw it last night, i thought it was an overreaction. i think it's important that the people who are looking at the

facts, but not overreact. because it is a fairly small minority of people who are trying to foment the violence. the sharptops and the jesse jacksons of the world. most people actually have dea definitely have advanced and evolved and were taught by our parents, that's why one of the worst things you can be called is a racist, that's why it stings so much. i think that overreacting is something that we -- >> the people who showed up at those things were professional race rioters, 85% of the people in ferguson stayed home and did not go out and cause this problem. they do not use drug, but 90% of them do not trust to the police establishment. >> before you start that conversation again --- >> you're the one that started it. >> you know what? because he just made that number up.

how about that? >> mugged at gunpoint, he has no hard feelings for the criminals, in fact he understands why he was targeted. that's next. ♪

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georgetown student oliver fridfeld. who i am to stand from my perch of privilege surrounded by million dollar homes to condemn these men as thugs. as young people, we need to devote real energy to solving what is our collective challenges. we should get used to sporadic muggings and home break ins. so one wonders, what about murder or rape? seriously, would he excuse the rape of a loved one?

perhaps he should share his thoughts with the family of tamir begich, it would be harder to voice this to those poor people than in a college paper you little runt. lee's story. maybe he really is this wimpy, after all he is a product of the modern campus, the conveyor belt of intellectual disarmament, that makes mice not men. but to me is just a discredit to his race the human one. this guy really is dating material, huh? >> can you imagine being on a date with this guy, and you get mugged, and he defends the muggers, or what if he hits his girlfriend or boyfriend? what then? they're disadvantaged. >> we kind of deserved it.

>> his parents should be so ashamed of him. they paid 60 grand for that stuff. >> i literally thought about georgetown and how great it would be. he clearly just wrote this to be provocative and get to the media. maybe he's that big a narcissist, but i believe he actually did file a police report, so maybe he actually did get mugged, if that's the case, this guy is just a product of being overliberalized. everyone get ss a trophy, i can have more than him. what if he does have enough and he just wants more? >> what if he got his head smashed in or he got shot or he got stabbed, which happens most often. would he have deserved that too? it's just ridiculous. >> forget about this loser, i want to talk about this poor man, the serbian in st. louis, a

group of teens beat him to death with a hammer, his name's amir begich. this is the st. louis police chief sam dobson, explaining that it's not race. >> what i can also tell you is that there is no indication that the gentleman last night was targeted because he was bosnian, i take not only your safety, but everybody in the community very seriously. i heart your message loud and clear, i want to makes shi sure that you're safe. just like every nibd in our city. >> he said he wasn't targeted because he was bosnian, would it be that he was white? i'm not saying this, in fact i don't even want to inject race into this. but it seems interesting that everybody is bending over backwards not to inject race, not to do it. >> think the more important thing here is forget the race issue, that people are going to mug where the money is, and this guy is in georgetown or --

>> this guy is in st. louis. >> i assume that guy did something -- >> pulled him out of his car and killed him in front of his wife. >> they probably didn't trust him. >> they're wilders, these guys are out of control. >> i always try to make -- i said that people who go and commit crimes where there is money, that's all. and for this guy to suggest that somehow they committed it because he's privileged and therefore they should be released is ridiculous. >> back to this more rim crime, do you think the news channel also spend 24 hours a day covering this? >> i'm sure that for our viewers, it might be the first time that our viewers have heard about it. but he deserves some recognition, amazing story of an immigrant family who came here legally, and was successful in business and starting a family, and there's going to be a memorial service for him next week, or i think maybe on the etched of this week. he died at an area hospital and

there's a close knit boss knee yang community there, that was doing exactly what you were saying in the a-block, going into the community and working hard to create a better life for himself,nd his wife said that she never thought that the kinds of things that were happening in a war zone would actually happen in america. >> they caught u one so far. >> now there's three in custody, they're looking for at least one or two more, one turned, they're being charged with first-degree, hopefully they're being charged as adults. this is a horrific crime, the rest of the media won't cover it but this is the reality. >> why do they bend over backwards when they say this is not a hate crime. they bends over backwards when it's that way, but if it's a white cop that shoots some black teens that just roll the liquor store or a convenience store, if it brings out everybody. >> well, i'm sure they would know a bosnian from a bosnian.

>> there is one report that said ask the white people. >> why is the cop saying definitive that is not a hate crime or race related crime. >> they're scared. >> they're scared, obviously. >> all right, got to go. ahead, republicans want answers from the administration on the president's immigration action and they try to get them today on to the hill next. ♪ just look at those two. happy. in love. and saving so much money on their car insurance by switching to geico... well, just look at this setting. do you have the ring? oh, helzberg diamonds. another beautiful setting. i'm not crying. i've just got a bit of sand in my eyes, that's all. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. ♪

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on the hot seat to defend his boss was homeland security secretary jay johnson. >> the president said over 20 times, that he did not have the legal authority to do this, to take this executive action, and this is not how democracy works.

do you agree with that prior statement? >> i have looked at various exexcerpts of remarks of the president concerning his legal authority to act and i do not believe what he have done is inconsistent with that? >> is this amnesty? >> no, not in my judgment. >> all right, we got the cue cards out. >> the move would only be symbolic live the president would veto the measure. hoping to avoid a government shut down. >> i understand the pent up anger and the rage over the president's constitutional action, and the cure for that is to go to see a psychiatrist, not to vote in the congress and shut

down the congress. republicans shouldn't blow it. >> the people that like the shut down the most are liberal democrats, they can point to their fund raising spikes right after the shutdown of the last time, they thought it gave them real momentum, and they talk about the poll numbers. but that's one of the reasons that they like to talk about the shut youp. he would veto it, it's actually really hard to tell, i think charles krauthammer -- think about jay johnson, too, he's a very cool customer, it's not an envious position to there. he did a very good -- it was a wise thing to take executive actions, as hearings go, he was one of the best. >> it's such a charade, so they go and ask jay johnson questions, and he does well and

we go back, and there's nothing they can do about it. charles krauthammer and dana, they are 1,000% right. they got the ball, you're winning the game, you're going to get what you want. you can't roll this back, that's the consequences of electing a democrat. elections have consequences, there's one of them. if you're the president, repeal it or do something else. it's just . >> it feels like the next two years are going to be like a liberals black friday, they're going to try to get everything they can while it's on sale. they have to like mind the store. the new slogan for republicans should be if we don't do it, they will. and i mean go earn. as a conservative liblibertaria

they don't like big government. shutting down the government, if it makes msnbc happy, that's got to be the wrong thing. if msnbc likes it, it's bad for the country. >> before bob beckle brings up executive action, that was actually tried so take a listen. >> congressman, this type of action has existed in one form or another, going back decades, it was exercised in the reagan and bush administrations. >> no, mr. secretary, i will not allow you to go there, it was authorized after activity by the congress. >> the liberals want them to shut it down, of course and the reason for it is they were stupid enough to do it twice, they didn't learn it the first time, they didn't learn it the second time. and would we like to raise money? yes.

>> i'm so glad we agree. >> just to tell you, listen to charles. >> i actually think that the house vote on immigration is a smart one to have. i understand it's symbolic, but it's an important one to have. if i were a reporter, and i was on the hillary cam pain trail, i would be asking her every single time to clarify her position on it. >> i didn't say that they can overturn it. i said in 2016, you could. >> also eric had an excellent sports metaphor there. sitting on the ball, i didn't know exactly what that meant. >> making new sports fans every day. stay tuned, because dana's got some breaking news in the cooking world to tell you about, a major shake-up to the way girl scouts sell their sweets and,'re going to hear it next.

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you can buy just about anything onlineonline--one catc that you have to know a girl scout to become a virtual customer. for decades scouts have typically sold cookies door to door and some still will, but we're going to talk about how it's a good idea to take away the door to door rejections. >> i sold cookies. >> i sold girl scout cookies when i was a blue bird.

i remember being so scared to go up to the door and ring the doorbell and have to say, hello, i'm dana with the girl scouts. would you like to buy some co cook cookies? >> you have to have supervision. but really who ends up selling so many of your cookies are your parents, they go and they guilt the other co-workers at their job into buying the cookies. but it all goes into a very good cause. >> they raised $800 million a year for the girl souths. the biggest seller is the thin mint. what's not on here is greg's favorite, the short bread. >> that is so cute. thank you. >> girl scouts are sexist and ageist, if i can't be a girl scout, it's exclusionary, i'm 50, i can't be a brownie. and where does the money really

go? to big girl scout, the ones that control all the badges, the camping, the hiking. you have heard about soilent green. samoas are people, thin mints are people. >> you've given up sugar, but would you still buy girl scout cookies? >> i like to buy girl scout cookies all the time. i think they're great. >> i asked a lot of questions, they were very articulate? so while that's great, they'll probably sell more. >> i believe in that whole

competitive nature, understanding marketing, price, value, all that stuff. >> and also rejection. what rejection, who says no? who says no? come on. >> i mean, think about the ability to understand no, will you buy this, no? they don't two that anymore. now everyone gets the trophy. >> what if you get an e-mail response that says no on yo. that would be devastating. >> this tastes like people. this is the big scandal. >> we want to thank the girl scouts from sending over all these cookies. >> they told us to be nice. that's why i said it. they were really worried we were going to bad mouth the girl scouts, but we weren't. >> making cookies out of human beings is not bad. >> they demanded that we be nice. >> they didn't demand, they

asked. they wanted to protect the girl scouts and who wouldn't want to do that. >> the projected gop candidate that scares bob the most. see bob quake in his boots when he tells you about news from someone.

i have said one gop candidate that really scares me when it comes to winning the presidency in 2016, my personal choice is fed cruz. >> i'm thinking about running for president, and i'll make up my mind in short order, i don't know if i would be a good candidate or a bad one. i kind of know how a republican can win, what it's me or somebody else and it has to be much more uplifting, much more positive, much more willing to, you know, to be practical now in washington world, lose the primary to win the general without violating your principles. >> you know, jeb shouldn't have

trouble raising money. the one thing that worries me, one is a hispanic, he could cut his hispanic vote by a whole lot. one thing that was very important at the end. he said you have to be willing to lose the primary to the general. primaries take the candidates too far -- you got to be willing to forego that to win a general election. >> so we're talking about jeb running, we're talking about money, it's every indication that he's going to run and announce, how he gets -- he gets four republican governors, four of them who will likely run, jeb bush, scott walker, chris christie, and probably john casey. so you got to like the republicans' chances those are really solid governments. and i love the idea of a state

ceo running the country, because he's done it before. >> i haven't seen a congressional republican with some solid front runner ship here. >> some of the senators do. well, i think that there's a lot of them. i think ruby and rand paul have their names in the mix. i like jeb bush for a lot of things, but he has been saying that he will decide by the end of the year. i like his humility, i don't know whether i would be a good candidate or not. he's not afraid to lose, that's one thing, but he's also not afraid to lose. he has so many major problems, especially on fiscal health of the country, i think it will be a very interesting fight. >> the iowa caucuses are 13 months away. >> how do you like his chances there? >> it's nod bad, a lot of his

spachbic voteers there, i think this myth about the republican white wing dominating. it's true, he's right to life, is he not? that's where christie will run into trouble in iowa. >> you just said everything i have said for the last six months, that we need a positive, uplifting voice, my problem is, can you get a new car smell from a car that reminds you vaguely of two other cars you already owned? >> what about the clintons' car? if you choice is. >> i think the bush car smells better than a clinton car. >> that's a great way to vote. if you're going to make a decision, you can't make up your mind, which one smells better? >> how much of a problem is the bush legacy for him. >> why not turn it around to an advantage, someone who has experience, a family who has dedicated their lives to public

service, to serving the government, that cares deeply about america, that doesn't put their own agenda forward, that's refreshing to me. >> rubio is not running, but jeb bush is. >> i'll arm wrestle you over it. >> one more thing is up next. introducing the new philips norelco shaver series 9000 with contour detect technology that flexes in 8 directions for the perfect shave at any angle. go to philips.com/new for savings on shavers and trimmers. innovation and you. philips norelco.

one more thing. it's time for -- all right, a beganed phrase said no one ever, people say that to point out that the previous phrase is wrong, i think lou dobbs is sexy, said no one ever. it was cute a year ago, now it's stupid, said everyone, ever. just do what i did. girl scout cookies, they're made of human beings. >> they want me to rush along. oil prices have slid almost 50 -- actually more than 50% over the last year and a half, that last month down went from about $115 a barrel down to $65, $63 a barrel. next screen very quickly, that amounts to a dollar lower in gasoline prices over the course of a year, that translates to a $150 billion stimulus package to

every single american, whether you're rich like bob, or at the low end. >> right here in new york city, they kicked off world aids day and unfortunately a front rainer bono is recovering in dublin from a bike accident in central park. bruce springsteen and chris martin coming in to save the day for their friend. >> some people are saying springsteen should be the new -- >> springsteen stings the streets have no name and i still haven't found what i'm looking for. they totally should have -- >> okay, yesterday, i did something to drive bob crazy, today i want to do it to greg. you'll enjoy this, did you love

the muppets, i did. this is just for greg. ♪ i live in hip-hop ♪ hey ho hey ho hey ho >> all day long i couldn't wait to show you that to you. >> our culture is being can tom natured on all fronts, those were the muppets and you should have destroyed them. nwa. >> the list is out over the most popular names, according to baby center, jackson, aiden, liam, lucas and noah. but in the uk, in england, guess what? you saw it, can you believe it? it's mohammad and my guess is that most of the mohammads are in fact muslims.

>> noah is number four, you should be happy about that. >> did one more thing get approved? >> we got to go. the urgent issues of immigration over the budget. this is "special report." good evening, welcome to washington, i'm bret baier, we are nine days away from authorized funding for the federal government drying up, without that authorization, the federal government essentially runs out of muffin. the main goal for thiscongress, in its final session is to take care of that. but hard feelings over the president's executive action on immigration could greatly complicate matters. we have fox team coverage tonight, mike emanuel on capitol hill with what republicans can