we don't want you to miss a minute of the show. good night and god bless and merry christmas and stay tuned for justice

>> when it comes to the long running debate over torture, it all depends on where you shine from the spotlight. the news on the cia interrogation was in the stark details. >> this is a despicable program that when you read about, you are sickened to hear about this, the sexual humiliation of these people. >> stripped naked and diapered,

one detainee chained to a wall for 17 straight days in a standing position. another threatened with a drill. one left to die in a cell from hypothermia. >> former cia director michael hayden made the television rounds and he got questioned like this. >> what if you, god forbid, members of your family, had to undergo some of the treatments we are reading about in this report? >> look, brian, we're people who, like you and all your viewers, we have a soul and a conscious, too. we knew as bad as these people were, we were doing this to fellow human beings. but others in the media shining a spotlight on the senate democrats and the risk of making these sensitive findings public. >> but if americans are killed as a result of this report and they tell you that, i assume you would feel guilty about that. >> i would feel very badly, of course. i mean, what do you think, wolf politicser?

>> even if it's going to endanger the lives of the intel community and the operatives who are still working on our behalf right now. >> the report is not going to endanger lives. >> yes, it is. >> joining us now to examine the coverage of this terror and torture debate, lauren ashburn, a conservative at the hill, steve hayes, and juan williams, fox news editor. lauren, nice to have you back. >> nice to be here. >> you just saw those interviews. what do you make of those confrontations with dick cheney, michael hayden and dianne feinstein? >> i thought they were very good. i thought the journalists held their feet to the fire. wolf said diane was a friend and yet he continued in that interview to push you. but what i think is missing here is the overall context. that's not easy to do on television. in 2002 and 2003, americans were petrified about what al qaeda would do, about the next strike, about whether or not they had a nuclear weapon. and that doesn't come through.

it doesn't come through that we were very upset. >> a country very on edge. steve, i know you think this senate report is inaccurate and partisan. my question is, have the media made it personal? >> no, i think they haven't. part of the reason is that the media buys the basic narrative that is put forth in this senate report. you didn't have the media do the kind of details tailed analysis of this report that you have had the media do on other things. so you have -- >> very few. you had some in the conservative media, i would say, do this breakdown. but you didn't have very much at all. in fact, you didn't have the media asking the most basic questions or making the most basic points. it was possible, for instance, to read a front page story in the "new york times" about the report that never once mentioned that it was produced only by senate democrats. can you imagine a scenario in which only republican staff was nor mentioned in the media.

>> they consult the power of what was presented. so, you know, when you say he it's a part january argument, i think it contradicts the idea that it was an 11-3 vote in the panel for the release of this report. most of the republicans on the committee said get it out and then they issued a minority report that says, in fact, that they think there are flaws, serious flaws within the report. to come to the media angle of this, howie, i think what strikes me is that the everybody continues to use the term enhanced interrogation techniques. >> no, i disagree with you. i've been struck by the fact that "new york times" are now using torture when in the bush administration they shied away from that under pressure of the administration. >> i think even now when i read

those stories, i see more eit, you know, than i see torture. >> whether or not these techniques were permissible, some of them were abdomen wore end. i'm having a sense of deja vu here. are we having this great media war? president obama banned six years ago. >> of course we are. torture goes to who we are as a people. of course we should be having this discussion. it's not something that is just six years old and is we're going to forget about it. president obama is going to leave in two years and a new president will come in who could change the position. it's something we need to discuss -- even the commentators

who say this is a one-sided report, lauren made the point about saying, did we get this information, that's a debate that can't fully be resolved. but are they side stepping the moral question here about the values of americans doing things that perhaps we think our enemies are doing? >> to a certain extent, i think they are side stepping the values debate because we're really not having it. the conclusion has been among most journalists this was immoral or amoral and shouldn't have ever been done. i think the important -- the relevant debate is to make the distinctions between what was done as part of the program and what was done outside of the program that was abusive, for instance, i would defend the limited use of these techniques that were authorized. having said that, the rec tall rehydration that was described, that's torture. and i haven't seen many reporters makes that

distinction. people of good will can have a serious debate about the moral character and about the morality of these techniques that are authorized. we haven't had that debate because everybody is rushed to condemn everything without making those important distinctions. >> let you knyou know what trie the media coverage is it's almost after the fact, all those at the table, in this audience, we knew what would happen. president obama, not only did he say no more torture, but there will be no more prosecutions, no truth commission on this issue. so in a sense, i think the democrats -- and to me, that's part of the story -- made the story that look, we were scared for the country and we made some decisions and this report has brought it back to light. that's why i think it's interesting that the media has played this as steve would have play it as it's a partisan -- i think this is a serious debate. >> where has the media been?

on one particular issue of this, the democrats were fully briefed about this. there are reports coming back. republican ves made this debate, other people have reported this. where is the scrutiny on democrats who were briefed about this who approved this who in some cases were enthusiastically supportive of this? >> you're right, but let's say i say you're right, does that mean that that was good to torture people? i don't think. this reminds me that we have to hold even -- even our champions, even the cia has to be held in some standard, you see? >> that's not the argument. the argument is should that be part of the broader story? if you had a public officials, elected officials enthusiastically endorsed some of these techniques, and now we want to have everybody believe -- >> i'm guessing we had nothing to do. >> jump in here and rule in favor of steve, that should be part of the journalistic techniques, was the white house fully briefed? some of which we learned some new information. but, you know, there's another part of this senate report, lauren, that dealt with the

cia's attempts to use the media. if we can put it up on the screen, there's a memo from the deputy director at the time of the cia's counter terrorism center who said we either get out and sell the program or we get hammered. cuts our authorities, messes up our budgets. we need to make sure the impression of what we do is positive. we must be more aggressive out there. we either put out our story or we get eaten. there is no middle ground. >> oh, my gosh, there's spin going on in washington? of course they're going to do this. why do you think bill o'reiley starts his show every day saying you're entering the no spin zone? -- oh, come on, you don't think they work the press? >> of course they do. >> i think those other images truck that. but i think isis is waging this

amazing social media and public messaging campaign that outshines anything that any other terrorism organization has ever done. they are recruiting kids from the midwest, from denver, from the west coast, girls, teenagers thp they have a campaign targeted against our teenagers. so if they have a propaganda, we should, too. >> the cia leaked information in the "new york times" and, of course, the cia does this as a matter of course. the cia spins stories not always in a honest way. but remember, dianne feinstein's report, at 11:05 shortly after this report was released, you had a few thundershowers stories in advance. so she's criticizing the cia for

doing exactly what she just did to advance her agenda. >> i'm just shocked that the cia is spinning. but the fact is, don't forget, they not only destroyed tapes because they didn't want them leaked and played here in the media, but tried to get inside the senate committees computers and block them access. >> i've got to get a break. let's go on to twitter. i want you to be part of the conversation, send me a message. we always read some of the best ones later on. ahead, we'll talk to the journalist who botched the badly written "rolling stones" report on rape.

the massive hacking at sony pictures is serious business with personal information revealed about 47,000 staffers and ex staffers. lots of information the computer attack is in retaliation for sony's new film "the interview." but the media now consumed. i am not destroying my career over a minimally talented spoiled brat. rudin, 12 years as a slave. did you think this kind of private joking around about the president's favorite flims was racist? >> i thought it had strong racial overtones. for me, having worked at a liberal radio show and being fired for comments, i thought it was hypocrisy when it comes to racism. in this instance, what you see

here is that these liberal hollywood elites who give money to democrats are condescending to the president of the united states, a harvard educated lawyer, and say oh, no, his interest in movies is going to be confined solely to him solely on the basis of race and he's going to have this interest in kind of working class slap stick comedy. >> one, that were joking around. that doesn't excuse it. amy and scott have apologized. let me bring in steve. it's a fair point, but we've all feasting on these gossiping e-mails. it's all stolen property and, i don't know, that makes me uneasy. >> let me say something i don't think i've ever said in my entire career. i agree entirely with everything juan just said and it was brilliant. start over, juan. >> that's my problem with this story is these are e-mails that we shouldn't be seeing. i think the content of them is indefensib

indefensible. it makes me uneasy to talk about it as a topic. i thought "morning joe" talked about it earlier this week well where they raised the issue and they went around the table and they said in effect, we shouldn't be talking about this. >> i agree. i kind of wanted to take a shower after reading some of this stuff, but this does confirm hollywood hot shots as being back stabbing and duplicitous. >> hollywood is not in barack obama's back pocket, as we thought they were. >> amy is a supporter of -- >> it doesn't matter. what president would get respect? his poll numbers are down, even his base is attacking him and being racist. >> there are some e-mails that spilled out involving "new york times" columnist new york dowd telling amy pascal, i would make sure you look great if pascal would give dowd an interview and showing the column to her husband. >> the first thing people learn

in journalism school is you don't show your product to your source or to whoever else is interested, has a vested interest in this until it's written. that said, she came out and said i did not do this. >> right. but then there was the exchange afterwards of she gets the interview and amy writes to mau even, you're my favorite person. and she writes you're my favorite person. >> her boss defends it by saying it was just an air kiss, you're great, i'm great. she's writing an article about this woman. you know, yes, there's a certain way to thank you for the interview, great talking to you, but it's not -- you don't do that. >> love and kisses all around. maybe not for you two. lauren ashburn, lon williams, steve hayes. thanks for stopping by. ahead, the growing list of women accusing bill cosby of sexual assault. but up next, "the washington post" reporter who found glaring

contra decision

i've lost track of how many women have accused bill cosby of sexual assault, but this week after another lawsuit filed against the comedian, a ground breaking super model named beverly johnson joined the course. first in "vanity fair" and then on television. >> what did you think he was trying to do? >> well, i -- i knew he was trying to take advantage of me. but i knew this goes above and beyond, you know, making a pass

at a woman. you don't make a pass at a woman by drugging her. beverly, what do you want to see happen to bill cosby? >> i -- i don't want to see anything happen to bill cosby. what i want to see happen is that women come out and speak their truths. >> beverly johnson, the first avenue can american woman on the cover of the u.s. edition of "vogue", the does her getting into this take it to another level? >> i don't know if it takes it to a different level. it was a pretty high level to begin with. i think what she does is -- i don't know, i assume you've actually read her piece in vandy fair. it was insightful. sometimes when people say, like, as survivor of sexual assault, what do you want to have happen to the person that did this to you, that's not the responsibility of the perpendicular who is the victim.

the responsibility of the victim is to come out and tell the truth. we have a justice system that is going to come out and determine what happens. to talk about it, to come out and speak her truth, that is a brave thing and very noble. i have a lot of admiration for her. >> right. and there's been chatter about some of the accusers, whether they're trying to get money out of cosby. but here is beverly johnson writing in that vanity fair piece, i thought it only happened to me that and i was somehow responsible. >> here is the most troubling thing about that. this is decades of incidents and it's trickled out in the press. >> in past years, there have been some motivations about a handful of women. now it just seems like lots and lots of women and you almost wonder, more than 25 accusers, are we reaching a tipping point in this story? >> only in the sense that the tipping point for bill cosby's career, for his life.

but i think when you look back on the media, i think it's opening up a new window and, really, do we ignore an important story? that's my question. it sounds like the media did for questionable reasons. >> i think that the media has kind of shielded bill cosby for a long time for most of this. but now you wonder whether the pendulum is going the over other way to putting five cosby accusers on. there have been no criminal charges against this guy had we not convicted him in the media. >> well, it's tough to cover a story like this without saying you've convicted someone in the media. i think it's probably a responsible thing to interview the survivors of these assaults of the people that say -- the women that say they've been assaulted. it's how you cover it. i mean, you know this very well, sort of how you frame it, how you cover it. i know that people have gone to bill cosby for his side of the story, definitely. just in the case like the uva one. we know what his side of the story is which is that he doesn't say very much. so i don't know if it's fair to

say that we're trying him in the media. i think we're going to have to see that special. i think there is a tendency for pendulum swings, for us to try and make up for things that we've done wrong in the past in the media, to try and overcover when we've undercovered. but i'm not sure, i think it's up to the individual news organization to try to retain some sense of ability and context for what they're doing. but i don't see anything wrong with now going after this story pretty hard. >> right. this special -- the women basically told their stories on cnn in a way that, you know, it's always more compelling on television. i've been really struck by cosby saying nothing, his lawyer putting out statements. but now we see a little squid in the new york post on page 6 in which bill cosby tells a reporter, i only expect the black media to uphold the standards of excellence in journalism. when you do that, you have to go in with a neutral mind. so he is saying something and it sounds like he maybe feels

betrayed by african-american news outlets? >> what's interesting to me is the way the story unfolded. and i wonder if the media would have come down so hard on him and if the black community would have come down so hard on him if he wasn't out on tour lecturing the black community. i think there's a connection there. >> and we have to remember this happened at a time when he was trying to restart his career, run runs airing on tv. all that has now gone away because of the mounting allegations here. sus susan, anna, thanks very much for joining us. straight ahead, jon stewart be rates himself for getting the facts wrong. and stephen colbert goes easy on president obama. what happened to the search for truth in our video individual comedy edition is up next.

test

time now for our video verdict. jon stewart made a serious mistake in a segment on police shootings yesterday referring to the case in san bernardino, california with the police shootings of unarmed black men. >> he was so wrong about those facts. they did not shoot him, they tasered him after he had committed a burglary and he was attempting to assault a deputy sheriff. >> district attorney ramos is right, we were wrong. so i'm sorry about that. we shouldn't have done that. dah! i [ bleep ] hate making unforced errors like this. i get so mad at myself. stupid, stupid, stupid. >> jon stewart uses his show to slam the cops. >> and i deserve that!

>> he did deserve that, and good for him for putting the apology front and center. yes, he turned it into comedy schtick, and he later lashed out at another fox commentator, but i know how he feels. i get really mad at myself when i make a mistake, and the important thing here is jon stewart owned up to it, but it's a comedy show so he did it in humorous fashion. in other comedy notices, president obama versus that bott bombastic colbert, but this time another colbert showed up. >> people are surprised you're doing anything at all. >> the election didn't go as i would have liked. >> do you like the job? >> i love the job. it's an incredible privilege, but when you're in it, you're not thinking about it in terms of titles. >> do you do normal things like

leave your socks on the floor and stuff like that? >> i do. >> the president leaves his socks on the floor. i found that a letdown, because colbert could have used his bombastic idiot character to have a funny interview with the president and press him on some of these issues. colbert is wrapping up this week. he's going to be david letterman's successor, so i think he went a little easy on the president. coming up,

first a sad note. the tally for media outlets as passed away, his death being reported a suicide. he was in pakistan after we killed osama bin laden, and most recently the unrest in ferguson. he could light up a room and light up a screen. di-natale was 43. here are a few of the top tweets how the media is covering the rape allegations. they sometimes presume guilt before following up with facts. where is the follow-up on accusers? john gaffy, to be clear, her publisher is expressing regret

for the way it was handled in her book. master chief po 117, why isn't anyone talking about how these bogus stories will make it difficult for real rape victims to report in the future? actually, there has been talk about this. > a controversial scene of a rape victim telling a reporter she was raped. >> do you believe me? >> of course, i do. >> seriously. sdp >> i'm not here on a fact-finding mission. >> be honest. >> i've heard two competing stories, one from a very credible woman who has no reason to lie, the other from a guy who i find to be a little sketchy and he has reason to lie, and i'm obligated to believe the sketchy guy. >> a writer for the show, alena smith, took to twitter saying she objected to the scene in the script. i ended up getting kicked out of the room and screamed at, alena complained, but an author of the

huffington post listened to her story and reposted it. we end with a bit of good news. eric holder decided james risen won't have to reveal his source. after a backlash of the justice department snooping on the ap, it seems the attorney general has belatedly learned his lesson. that's it for us. i'm howard kurtz. i hope you like our facebook page. go to our home page. we'll be talking about ann compton sd>> it is monday december 15th. terror down under, a hostage situation gistill on the way in australia as they are on high lart now. what we are learning about the

suspects terrorist behind it all. >> shocking revelation on what they knew about the cia tactics and when. >> i remember very clearly about briefing cans see pelosi in september of 2002. >> stew dints fighting back gengs their school. is this fair or foul? we report, you decide. "fox & friends first" starts right now. ♪ >> kie scrapekyscrapers to your town. welcome to "fox and friend first. i am heather childers.

>> and i am ainsley earhardt. we are going to start with a fox news alert. a terrorist armed with a gun holding more than a dozen hostage in sydney, australia. >> the gunman demands an isis flag. joining us live in london with breaking details is gregg palkot. >> good morning. we have been tracking the story all through the night. it is 9:00 monday night in sydney, australia right now. now it is approaching 12-hours of the hostage situation going on with a link to or better described as an association with the isis islamist group. it happened in a busy cafe monday morning australia time. in the center of sydney. sydney is the biggest city in australia. the equivalent of new york city for australia. a middle aged man wearing some