>> this is a fox news alert on a hostage crisis now over after more than 16 hours sparking fears of terrorism in australia's largest city. this is "outnumbered." today's hashtag one lucky guy, pete and he's outnumbered. glad to have you here today. >> glad to be here. >> your military expertise will be great to have. it's early tuesday morning already in sydney. and that -- and that was the

scene just two hours ago. you could hear that gun fire there rapidly, heavily armed police storming a lindt chocolate cafe after a nice of negotiations with a gunman failed to end the or deal. earlier a number of hostages were seen running from the cafe. this actually happened more than once. they've been held since monday morning local time there. the gunman and at least one other person we know were reportedly killed in the siege. the suspect was an iranian refugee with a criminal past but they're not saying whether the incident is related to terrorism exactly. greg is in london with more now. bring us up to speed. >> harris, dramatic ending. police confirming to fox news the seen is over. australian police also confirming to fox news they're still sorting out all the numbers and all the happenings the last couple of hours. backtracking again, walking into a cafe in sydney downtown, a very busy time on monday morning with a 49-year-old iranian

refugee you mentioned. a man who had a shotgun, a pump action shotgun and it took around 20 hostages there at that scene. he made them stand in front of the windows, holding their hands up, made them hold up a flag with an islamic inscription on it and halfway through the 16-hour siege, five hostages made it free. they escaped. then the negotiation happened. big police presence, talking to the gunman, trying to make sure that this ended peacefully. well, it didn't. as you noted two hours ago, it got nasty. we believe from the reports that the gunman shot first. either at a hostage or police and that made the police move. they blew open the front door, five hostages got out. they moved in, started firing. more hostages got out but there was a heavy fuselage, a lot of fire going on inside that cafe and latest reports and again, we haven't confirmed this yet with

the police are that one hostage was killed and the gunman was killed. and we watched and counted as many as four or five hostages wheeled out on stretchers. again, the man was talking about isis, talking about his sympathies with them, asking for an isis flag, wanting prime minister abbott in australia to declare this an isis attack but it sounded like was a twisted individual as well. maybe one part isis, nine part mental derangment. he, in fact, last friday was in court trying to battle a charge and a conviction against him by australia for sending terrible letters to the families of australian service members killed in fighting in afghanistan. can you believe that? condolence letters that then said, by the way, your father or your husband was with a dirty rat. he was a pig and he deserved to die. the court knocked that down

friday. he waited saturday, sunday and then he marched right in and apparently met a very untimely end. back to you, harris. >> greg, i know you were giving some details about this man's past. he had been convicted of crimes and also looked at in the murder of his wife and they found him guilty of many counts much sexual assault and some charges involving six women. what are you learning about what they're saying about this man in terms of how they might have seen this coming? he has youtube videos. >> exactly. the police, harris, said we know him. before we knew the identity and we got that confirmed from the police, before that was revealed, he said we know this guy. he is on our radar. and in fact, yes, he was convicted of charged with being an accomplice in the death of his ex-wife, the murder of his ex-wife and also charged with sexual charges against women, other people coming forward.

so in fact, not quite the boy scout that the isis extremists might attach themselves to but maybe on the other hand, yes. one more note, harris. this is the first deadly -- if you want to call it a terror attack, in fact, it's not being labelled as such yet by the australian government but let's mute it this way. this is the first deadly terror related attack on australian soil. they've sent planes there, jet fighters, they've sent special forces and now it took special forces to end this. that's what we're also learning. in addition to the police, in addition to the swat team, they sent in the commandos at the very end to get their man. >> this is pete. three months ago, australia raised the terror alert from medium to high so they were seeing indications of this. at this point based on what they know, do they believe it's one man or do they worry about follow-on attacks because of

other individuals in the country with similar motivations? >> they're worried about the lone wolf attack which is what many analysts are saying this is but we don't have the final confirmation about that. a couple of weeks ago, isis declared that they want to see lone wolf attacks, killing people in australia so you can really make that connection quite clearly between isis and this attack. this fellow probably wasn't getting a message from syria or iraq but was certainly taking the cue and acting on that so yes, australia very concerned about lone wolf attacks. they're quite shaken. we've heard a man in the street interviews and they haven't seen anything like this on the soil of australia probably the nearest they've come to that was the terrible disco bombing in bali why -- where 88 australians

died. it's a rough neighborhood no matter what neighborhood you're in, pete. >> greg, harris again. thank you so very much. we'll come back to you if the news warrants on this. thank you. but let's go on and talk about this a little bit because a couple of things have certainly become clearer this morning. whether this man had direct contact or emphasis or support from isis really is almost as important as the fact that he thinks he did. and that isis again in propagandawise is winning a point with this one. andrea? >> they've been calling for -- isis has been calling for lone wolf attacks on countries like australia for awhile. you heard greg mention they're an ally of ours in the fight but we're seeing isis start to be successful in countries that haven't had attacks before on their soil. we've seen canada most recently. now australia and a lot of people wondering and i heard it earlier this morning, can this happen here? it has happened here. we have seen this in boston. we saw this in fort hood.

i don't know whether the australian leadership will not call this a terrorist attack. we saw the flag that this man was flying inside that chocolate store. it's pretty obvious to me it's terrorism. it's driven by radical islamic jihadism and it has come to our shores before and so even more proof that they're not going to stop, whether it's the united states or other countries that continue to fight against isis and radical islam. >> just a point about the flag, that is not of the islamic state, the isis grup but a flag that you see in many places. if you colored it green, you would see it in saudi arabia. >> to that point, even if australia, they've been incredibly aggressive at raising the terrorism alert level. dozens of raids and arrests, confiscating passports of those suspects and you still see this happen. and again, here terror, the face changes constantly. i know they're not calling it

that but you look at how like the mayor of new york city, for example, beginning to turn his back on the police department. how did that help anybody fight the looming threat militant islam? >> pete, i want to ask you, when the terror warning level is raised in a country, what exactly happens from a security perspecti perspective? what would happen in the united states? everyone worries about that and what happens when you see the levels raised? >> obviously he was on the radar screen with the activity that he takes. so you increase the amount of monitoring you're doing on targeted individuals. you might go in on raids that you would have otherwise held back on to continue to gather intelligence. that's what some counterterrorism forces in new york city, they try to get as many people as possible. you may move in because something is imminent but he mentioned nine parts psychopath, one part isis. that one part is so important,

though. the perception of momentum, the perception of a movement in iraq and syria motivates through great propaganda. >> i think it was andrea who mentioned hasan and what happened in fort hood, texas. i think a lot of people -- look how long it took us to get to the point where the government might even think terrorism. they still are calling it workplace violence. >> both were acts of someone that saw themselves as a muslim. whether or not the rest of the world wants to see it that way -- >> why is that critical? >> you can't defeat an enemy until you name it or understand what it is. when you call it workplace violence or when you're chairman of the joint chiefs said that we lose our diversity opposed to take on a threat, you're disarming yourself. to confront a threat that is growing, man festing whether we want it to or not. >> why is this guy roaming around? you look at the sexual assault

charges, accessory to murder, over 40 indecent charges. why is he walking around at all? whatever fears and concerns they had as to washing -- warnings, shouldn't this guy be on the list? >> we value free speech. even absurd free speech. what are you going to lock him up for? do we have the tools in the 21st century to confront these threats that exploit terrorists underground? >> this is not happening as a vacuum as we watch this, right? we just saw that senate intel report come out on interrogations. when you look at what is potentially out there, what are your thoughts? >> and the talk about our relationship with our allies and how this could be affected. releasing that report, that intelligence report, if i were one of our allies, i would say, well, the united states has no problem just airing out top secret memos. they're eating their own. but on the social media point, we see every single time lately

that they have been posting youtube videos. the brothers were on facebook. where is the monitoring by the private companies when someone posts a jihady video, why isn't that person automatically investigat investigated? i think there's more that can be done. the government loves to butt its nose into businesses. what about facebook and youtube and these companies? >> the government is using those as a hunting ground for certain, for potential terrorists. and i will say a lot of pressure has been put on, say, twitter. twitter was letting members of isis post anything and everything. photos of beheadings and there's been a lot of pressure coming out of this country from big and small to remove that kind of information. so you have to take the -- protect people. >> is it helping? you do want to be able to monitor this, right? if they don't post it, it makes it very difficult. >> you do want to be able to monitor it but you don't want to

just let it go on. >> you don't want them to recruit that. i understand that. >> you want them to adapt and overcome. i think what andrea is talking about the critical point we lose. where is the home team? you're going to preveent these things because you're lives and our freedoms are at stake here. we understand freedom of speech difficulties in the scenario but if they're related to isis and propagating that, they have declared warrous. >> i still ask for the moderate muslims, those who identify themselves as such where they are in this whole big conversation and we need to invite them to the table to see what their voices are. their flags are on display. we saw that today. we'll bring you updates. plus will lawmakers charge c.i.a. officials? the latest on that as former vice president dick cheney leaves no doubt he is standing by the c.i.a. with no regrets.

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>> reports indicating capitol hill likely won't be pushing for prosecutions over the report on c.i.a. interrogations, current and former agency officials are on the spotlight after it revealed controversial tactics used after 9/11. what lawmakers on both sides seem reluctant to press any charges. however, foreign officials have reportedly been more critical saying prosecution could be possible in other countries. meanwhile, former vice president dick cheney is fiercely defending the c.i.a.'s tactics. >> it worked. it worked now for 13 years. we've avoided another mass casualty against the united states. we did capture osama bin laden. we did capture an awful lot of senior guys of al qaeda who are responsible for the attack on 9/11. i would do it again in a minute. >> former v.p. yesterday on "meet the press" staying with what he said all week.

on these prosecutions, though, pete, i don't think any democrat really has the stomach to try to charge any of these c.i.a. officers because could you imagine the back and forth, the grilling they would get? okay. who did you water board? the mastermind of 9/11. they would look like heros. >> i'm sure they would and that's exactly the point dick cheney is making time and time again. these men did what they needed to do under the guidance of the justice department, parameters that were set to get results from imminent attacks. we had discussions in 2014 about horrible detention facilities when in reality, the ashes were still burning and we wanted to make sure another one didn't happen again and we empowered these men to make decisions in real time. if we ask them again, i'm not going to make a difficult decision.

might be politicalized 10 years from now. it handcuffs war fighters when we do things like that. >> you also bring up precedent and i was thinking about this. let's say elizabeth warren runs and becomes the next president of the united states. >> oh, gosh. >> could there be a warren administration looking into supposed crimes of the obama administration for drones or something like that, harris? >> i suppose if you move a data long and somebody deems that what you're doing is not the right thing to do, they can always investigate but i ask whomover it is to do the investigating, while you investigate, can you also keep us free and safe? somebody has to be tasked with the difficult part of doing that. the way that i understand what c.i.a. chief brennan said when he defended the c.i.a. and the tactics used post 9/11, he said there may be people who walked outside the bounds. i didn't hear him calling any of the actions illegal. what we know from the church report from the 1970's and

1980 1980's, western things were done to keep us protected if there were imminent danger and imminent danger is a moving thing t. really is. who is going to do that job? >> nobody in congress is going to push for prosecution because it would embarrass them because congress was briefed on these interrogation practices 30 times. the c.i.a. went to the justice department four separate occasions for legal guidance. justice department investigated this and decided not to prosecute. how much more damage are you going to do to this country? and where we stand with our allies and with other countries? >> and dagen brings up a great point. many members, including nancy pelosi, was up to date on the tactics. then all you members, right after 9/11, you said do whatever it takes and we did. >> my concern is who we're giving ammunition to in terms of

the world stage and how we're being viewed now and who we're enabling to say look what the united states does. this is obviously purely political. i think want justice department revealed that the democrats have been on a witch hunt and they've just announced to the world, there's nothing new. there was no reason to do this. >> it's amazing how obsessed they still are with the bush administration. >> you have to be when you're an enormous failure, you have to point to somebody else. >> they don't know who gruber was. can you imagine you put them on the hot seat about this? >> in the u.v. sex assault scandal, the friends of the alleged victim are claiming that rolling stone got their story long and say the magazine is taking another crack at its reporting. internal battle appears to be playing out among democrats but some party leaders deny a risk between the mainstream and progressives. we'll discuss. ♪

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>> some top democrats are downplaying talk of a split in their party. that began after senator warren gave an empassioned speech last week during a debate over the 'til vn dollar spending bill. they urged fellow democrats not to vote for the bill unless loosening bank regulations was moved. she lost that balt but inspired questions like this for the massachusetts. >> do you think the democratic party is more elizabeth warren or more moderate? >> i love senator warren but i have to say, i don't think in fairness that it's quite that simple. >> warren's move is being compared to the effort by senator ted cruz to kill obamacare but the third ranking democrat, chuck schumer of new

york, insists there's no internal friction. >> i think the soul of the democratic party is economic issues. i think on economic issues, we are united and elizabeth warren is even if people don't agree with it, she's constructive. she's not like ted cruz. >> no male -- family drama here. look. the progressives are ascending and they're split on more than just economic issues. they're split on national security, they're split on drones and all these other issues and that rift is getting bigger and bigger. >> wall street regulations is not an economic issue? since when? you have to try to present this, this picture of unity. wait until, and i hope it happens, you have hillary clinton and elizabeth warren on the same stage. you'll see an enormous divide. these two people do not like each other ideologically and it's not just economics. it's foreign policy and everything and i think you're getting ready to see a heavy

divide the media will not be able to ignore. finally they'll have to talk about the division on the left when they love talking about the division on the right. >> they'll have to talk about whether she's the yoyo ohno breaking up the band. >> we've seen a number of senators come out and poopoo obamacare. >> chuck shum -- schumer. he say they should have worked have works on infrastructure, spending. moveon.org, million dollar campaign behind elizabeth warren. run, warren, run. >> this is the beginning of the rumblings. there's going to be an elizabeth warren party, the democrat party. which camp seizes on it? how soon does that fissure start? nobody is satisfied with obama.

too many grass roots folks don't like hillary clinton. she's too moderate, too hawkish. elizabeth warren strikes all the right tones. left amazingly is frustrated with the policies of barack obama. >> i have a different theory. this could actually in the end help hillary clinton because all we've been talking about recently from the blogs and everything else has been how the inevitability is hurting her right now. every time she opens up her mouth, it's like the gap monster. what if you had a scenario, where chuck schumer are saying they're not that constructive. then would it be hillary is destructive? takes the focus off hillary clinton being the lightning rod. there is a flip side of this. >> i do think in some way, not just taking her out of the lime light to be the frontrunners. that always helps. but if elizabeth warren talks more and more about some wacky

things she believes, that's going to make hillary clinton seem more reasonable. if you want to druj you mean some of the far left theories and they will, that's exactly what hillary clinton wants. pete, i want to ask you, i think if bill clinton ran today, i'm not sure he could get nominated. he's more the moderate wing. i think hillary clinton is the mother goose of progressivism. is she going to go to that? >> i think she'll be forced to. she's been trying to move to the middle. she'll talk about how she governs, how she would be a governing candidate. what is the rationale? she's a woman. she's waiting her turn. she's a woman. now she's run against elizabeth warren. >> big bill is back in the white house. let's get bubba back in. >> if it's the same voters that got out for barack obama and were so passion jalt, those left wingers go and vote, that could

make the difference. >> new developments in the university of virginia sex assault scandal. three friends of the alleged victim of gang rape are speaking out again telling the associated press a rolling stone article was wrong on several key points now. particularly by portraying them as encouraging their friend not to report the attack. they say they did urge her to go to the police but she didn't want to. the reporter has finally reached out to them. she didn't at first as you well know, and now they say she's working to rereport the story. after all these years as a journalist, i haven't heard that from anyone. when the article first came out last month, it sparked protest and a lot of debate about sexual violence on college campuses. rolling stone since retracted the article and issues an apolo apology. we'll call it that for the sake of argument. first of all, how do you rereport a story? how does that happen?

because i'm reaching back on all my years in journalism. i'm not quite so sure that's the same as just getting the right the first time. >> you can't. there's no do-overs. i applaud rolling stone for, i guess, attempting to finally get it right. clearly the chain of command was so warped they lost their journalistic ethics, all common sense, especially in light of the duke rape case we saw so many outlets get wrong. but harris, to have the same reporter try and get a do-over and rewrite this, she can't. do you know why? because now she is the story. she is the story subject so she cannot rewrite the story. she should be fired. i've said that. her editor should be fired. if they want to do it wriright, they'll put another reporter on it. they'll go talk to other people. i still think it's too late but if they want to correct the record for the victims, let them have at it. >> the first time around when

she was asked about why she didn't reach out to all the people, she said the website was a bit outdated but we'll move on. >> come on. >> you can't make it up. with regard to this, though, if they put this in the magazine, is that an issue you're going to run out and buy? that's the bottom line here. you talk about how rolling stone has fallen. does this recoupe -- >> this is -- what about the runaway general? this is not rereporting because it was never reported in the first place. it was opinions packaged as reporting. it was agenda in search of facts. that's what happened. she didn't want to ask people that would tell a different story. she wants the perception that a rape culture is on campus. this is not reporting. this is editorializing. >> one of the students, really quickly in the a.p. article, made the point of saying i don't really care if that's presented in the article is true or not because i think it's far more important that people focus on the issue of sexual assault as a whole. you had damaged people who are victims of sexual assault by printing these falsehoods and i've heard this said time and

again. well, we were just focussing on the overarching issue. you did that by printing a story that wasn't true. >> you hit the nail on the head. where was the apology? >> it's character assassination against the friends, against the fraternity, against the university. where are the consequences? at rolling stone you can perform character assassination against people, get away with the job and rewrite the story. i hope not. >> rolling stone, if you go to the website, they've gone back to the music. we're going to go to a fox news alert, continuing to follow the latest out of the hostage situation in sydney, australia. at least two hostages were killed. and at least five were badly hurt. also reports the gunman is dead and we are now awaiting a news conference from the australian police. we'll keep you updated as the story unfolds. but thank you. thank you mom for protecting my future. thank you for being my hero and my dad.

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"outnumbered." obamacare facing its next big test today. it's the first deadline of the 2015 enrollment season. anyone who wants to get a health plan starting the first of the year needs to enroll by midnight specific time. meantime, house oversight committee chairman isa want more from obamacare architect jonathan gruber. he put him on the hot seat last week and isis issuing a subpoena for all the documents and communications with government employees related to his work on the affordable care act. andrea, do both of these things hurt, i guess, the -- hurt obamacare? they've been out in the malls trying to hump enrollments, right? >> what did you say? >> pushing it. >> the critical thing with what you've been talking about a lot is this supreme court that will

be heard next year and what gruber said examine how it plays into that. >> i think it's great that is ai is get morgue information. i would love to know if he knows nancy pelosi, has met with president obama. ask if he'll be giving money back, push him on that. there's only one question that matters and that is, is that you in that video, jonathan gruber? you're under oath. remind him of that. did you say, in fact, that you set up intentionally the law so that states would be forced into taking exchanges? you need to get him on video so that justice roberts and the others can see that and influence that supreme court decision. it's the only way to unravel obamacare. all the other stuff about him thinking we're stupid doesn't matter. >> i would piggy back that. remember the hhs representative from medicare, medicaid, rather, who sat next to jonathan gruber, although they didn't want her to, they wanted him to have a

separate table or separate hearing, was asked specifically if the supreme court finds positively based on what andrea just said, are you warning people who are signing up now so they can get ready that they might not be able to apply for the credits, the subsidies and the 37 states that the supreme court finds against the subsidies program? are you warning people their health care could be in jeopardy or it could cost a whole lot more than what it is? she didn't want to answer that question. they asked it several different ways. finally the record was, no. she's not. >> the democrats don't have a plan but do the republicans have a plan moving up to the supreme court hearing this and the decision coming down? >> i don't know if republicans have a plan as far as an alternative goes yet. they're not providing a solid alternative to obamacare. i think it's interesting what lengths the states had to go through to do this. enroll america made 75,000

calls, 600 events to try to push enrollment. if obamacare was so great, would the product have been selling itself? the true test of the legacy obamacare, is it going to be the cost? did it save people money? not about how many people enrollment it's how happy they are with the product. do they stay? do they hold the administration accountable for higher costs, lower quality of care? >> we used to say you can polish a turd all you want, it's still a turd. that's what this is. there are plans. they're there. >> but they don't articulate them. >> that goes back to harris' o popoo brownie story. we're waiting for an update on the sydney hostage siege that ended in a hail of gun fire after 16 hours. this as australia news is now reporting that the gunman and at least two hostages are dead. several others hurt. stay close. clear cloer

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6%. students who purchased lunch can win prizes like movie tickets, bikes and i pods. what do you think about this, bribing students? is the lunch so bad that you have to bribe kids? >> sure it is. here is your baked chicken, whole beat bread with skim milk. >> my kids would eat that. >> that's good. you're a good parent and parents should do that, not the government. i want my italian dunkers with dipping sauce and lots of cheese. that's what kids want. otherwise, you're going to have to raffle me a bike. >> that's healthy, too. the goal is to get them to eat to keep their brains working. >> healthy food is important but you see some pictures the kids are posting. they don't look appetizing. why not modify it and then you get kids eating healthy? >> if you're trying to bribe my child, i got this. i don't need that kind of help. mama says no. you're right. what i would have liked to have seen, they spend some money on retraining some people who were

in food prep to learn how to do sneaky sauce. i can get 18 vegetables in a lasagna, baby, and all you think there is, is ground beef and cheese. there's a little skill to doing this for kids that they're not used to that flavor. if you don't eat vegetables on a regular basis, they do have a little bit of a texture difference or whatever. i would like -- if they were going to spend my money, spend it on that so it has longevity so that you're teaching the children and the staff something, too. >> right. isn't that the issue? taxpayer money so we're sitting here and watching and saying we want our kids well fed. a lot of kids are going hungry at the end of the day so how do we make this program better? should michelle obama if she wants to be a leader in the area, and i respect her for that, do it right. modify the program. >> she should. these complaints have been happening for years so you would think they would just admit they got it wrong and make changes. i don't think the government knows how. they have no idea how to do this. when you think about school

lunches and think about obamacare, obamacare, they have to literally beat us into submission with penalties and fines and fees if we don't sign up. this is the a little more exciting. it's i pods and bikes and things that incentivize you. >> and the more money, taxpayer money, government money, dedicated to health care, you are going to get more regulations about what you eat and how you eat and calorie displays on food, right? because again, you have to control how fat america is getting. but they know this is failing. millions of kids dropped out of the school lunch program. more than 80% of school districts reported that food waste is up. i still think they're spoiled. they need an i pod. >> parents. why aren't parents being more proactive? you can make all the difference. you go to schools, challenge this. they should have had parents on the advisory board.

>> that's been the issue from the very beginning. engage parents is the answer. that tray with a shrivelled sandwich on it is a perfect picture of big government. you will get a little bit, it will be unsufficient but you'll like it because we'll give it to you. until parents take that control and educate and put that lunch together, that's what they're going to get. >> you've been in the military. it probably looks a little bit like an m.r.e. i grew up military, too, with my dad. >> m.r.e.'s look a little better than some of this. i'll tell you that. >> the big issue isn't just how involved they get. are they listening to us? you've seen how loud i can get. it's unbeliefable they wouldn't listen to the parents. >> because they think they know better. that's the whole bottom line, the baseline of progressivism. that village needs to be led by folks at the government. what i found to be really sad about this is i remember a lot of kids in school that didn't have a mom at home, stay-at-home mom like i was blessed with to pack my lunch and write notes to

me. >> i do that but i work. >> they had two parents that worked. maybe it was a single parent household. i feel these are the kids most affected because if the food -- if they're not fed and the food isn't good, they might not have a mother who has time to pack lunches at home. >> government, when it gets involved, whether it's in food or your health care, is a giant ship you can't turn around. once it starts moving, it's sailing and you can't do anything about it. >> you bring up a good point about the moms working in the home or outside the home. they are shaping appetites of our kids today. if they want the programs to work, why not only get input from moms but also have them be part of the process? i would gladly submit some recipes to get kids to eat. i have my 5-year-old who eats basically nothing to eat a lot of stuff now. >> they don't want that. it's government over parental rights. it's not about your input. it's about government knows best and this a huge tribute to

social media, too. these kids really started the story by posting photos on twitter. >> so true. on the free i pods they got. >> it's so true. hungry kids, i've taught for a lng time. go into the cafeteria. >> hungry kids, hungry wives, too. i love my wife. >> hungry me. >> hungry anyone. >> we are waiting an update from australian police on the sydney hostage siege that ended after 16 tense hours as local media is reporting the gunman and at least two hostages are dead. we'll have more up next.

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you see some of them running

free after 16 hours of being held captive by a man who is a self-proclaimed sheik. we're awaiting that news conference to tell us more about what's unfolded there. we weren't quite sure how many people at one point were being held hovenl inside that cafe. we were told by the ceo of that company that it could have been up to ten employees, 30 customers, but we're waiting to hear more. let's quickly talk about this if we can. representative michael mckaw out of texas has just released a statement on this. we don't know because they haven't called it terrorism. what he called jihadi cool because this man may have been inspired by isis as part of these statements. what is your thought? >> that's a great way of doing it. jihadi cool. we need to counterpropagandaize. the incredibly gruesome things

being done in the name of that religion, we need to be forcefully pushing back on what is an ideological war and a social media war. it does look cool. it's not so cool actually. you are cleaning bathrooms. you can get any job and they are wanting to get back home. >> great to have you here. and we'll, of course, be watching for that news conference as it comes up in the next little while. for now though we're going to stay here for out numbered overtime on the web. we're back on the tv version of us tomorrow at noon eastern but for now, we're going to leave you with what's happening now. and a fox news alert, gunshots and explosions have rocked sydney australia overnight as a terrifying hostage stand-off has come to a

violent end. >> s.w.a.t. teams storming a cafe in the middle of the night as hostages held by a gunman run for their lives. it's happening now. a terrifying end to an apparent terror seige in sydney, australia. the sound of gunfire and a possible explosion in the air. initial reports suggest there are casualties. live fox team coverage and in-depth analysis ahead. plus -- jeb bush makes some moves ahead of a potential 2016 run. but is hillary clinton and elizabeth warn going to battle it out ahead of the race. this point of order is targeted specifically to the dhs funding that the president has announced will be spent unconstitutionally, if you believe president