it seems like you would call for the same hearings. but we're not seeing that, the others aren't covering that double standard, are they? you don't get it, you're losing a bundle. . i'm kimberly, along with bob, greg, dana and it's 5:00 in new york city and this is "the five." it is 9:00 a.m. in sidney australia. a city on edge after a jihadist inspired by isis took a cafe under siege, holding more than a dozen people hostage for more than 16 hours. the standoff ended after the police stormed the cafe after the sound of gunshots.

the jihadist was well known to european authorities. he loudly objected to the u.s.'s true presence in afghanistan. he had just been in court on friday conspiring to kill his ex-wife. a counter terrorism source tells fox news the act -- mike morale raised his concerns got an attack similar to what we saw in sidney today happening here. >> what concerns me the most is that we're going to see this kind of terrorism around the world and we are going to see it here, nora, we are going to see this kind of attack here. and we need to be prepared for that. it shouldn't surprise people when this happens here sometime over the next year or so, guaranteed. >> those are strong words, guaranteed that we have to be prepared as a country for this type of islamic terrorism occurring on our streets here.

what do you think? are we ready? >> no. you can't be ready, and that's the nature of this. this is lone wolf, this is homegrown terror, if isis continues to tell everybody if you're sympathetic to their cause, you're going to continue to see it happening. some nut job walks into a candy store and says he's got a bomb here and everyone puts their hands up. everyone who is disgruntled in life now will have a cause. unfortunately that's what's going on. late last night this is what started, every news anchor, every news program on the planet not just australia or here, immediately put it on. once you tie it to terrorists, everybody wants to hear about it. do you know that six people died in pennsylvania today? one guy shot six different people in several locations in pennsylvania, but no one heard about that. we're hearing about this because

of the nature of terror and they're winning. they're winning. they're calling on terror and we need to be for rised. >> i want to correct you, you said three people died, there was two, right? you said two people plus the terrorist, a terrorist isn't a person, they should never be included in the victim count. i sense a train here, i love how the media, i always like to focus on the media here, they paint these people as isolated crack pots. they call themselves self styled clerics. but they never use this kind of logic with law enforcement or with fraternities. when there's an isolated incident, as with anything else, they use it to blanket an entire profession. but when it comes to islam, it's not a deep-rooted problem. for everybody else, whenever anybody does something, it's a

deep rooted problem. but when it comes to islam, it's an isolated, freaky thing. and please, please, please, let's not have a backlash, there was more stuff on twitter about this coming backlash than i have ever seen and they're more worried about an act that hasn't happened than an act that's already happened, which was this hostage taking. they were more consumed by this idea that a bunch of australia yac ians were going to go out and b beat up muslims. >> mike morale says he guarantees that there will be an attack like this within the next year. but maybe he knows something i don't know. the question taxpayers must ask is, what are you -- the government not mike morale. in the past two weeks, we have been fighting regarding

discussions in the past and fighting terrorism when we were first hit and in the aftermath of that, we spent two weeks hashing over those decisions that were made then. which is all fine and good, if at the same time we have the capacity to be able to think about and be creative, think about how do we need to protect ourselves in the future. those lone wolf attacks are what we have all worried about since right after 9/11, maybe even before that. all the cia directors, intel people, dod, fbi, this is their biggest concern. i just don't know that saying to the american people that they guarantee these types of things to happen is the right thing to do. people need to be informed and vigilant. maybe there needs to be better security. i don't think he knows, i think it was just being on tv and a limb hyperbole. >> and based on all the information that he has about, you know, active plots or --

>> in the capacity of isis, in order to inspire these lone wolves and that's why you have to go back to the question in august which is when president obama said his mission is to degrade and destroy isis. and we hardly ever hear what the update is on that, he gave a speech talking about the combat operations in afghanistan. so what are we doing to degrade and destroy on the immediate front and also you have the ideological war in the long run, which is a 50 to 70-year war. >> and the acts to degrade and destroy intelligence gathering, that americans and cia officers going to be tried as war criminals. how is that going to help us get information that's going to help us prevent these attacks. >> bob, he should have been in jail, this guy.

>> you're right, i agree with that. he was picked up for murder, conspiracy to murder. i don't know why he's on the streets, all the people we have seen here have been these lone wolves and people with problems and probably would be attracted to the isis movement. let me say one thing, i don't know of an intelligence person who won't say publicly or privately i guarantee an attack because they want to be sure they're covered in case there is an attack. >> i don't know anyone else who actually has said guarantee. i know they worry about it. >> they worry about it, but have you noticed how little isis has gotten in the news lately? do you notice how little land they have taken? because they have lost land. >> you mean like the news last week when they killed four children who refused to convert? beheaded children? >> they're taking more land in either sere ja or iraq. >> you don't think it's -- i

don't think you need any other's sis news headlines than that one to know exactly what we're up against. >> i would like the government to tell us where isis has expanded to, what land they have taken since they were supposed to have taken over in syria and iraq. go ahead. >> greg? >> i wanted to go back, people are wondering why is this guy on the streets? and it goes back to my point, fear of islamophobia. we are suffering from bad apple avoidance syndrome. in the old days, your community looked out for the bad apples, the muslim community has to look out for their bad apples, because we can't do it for you. this guy is a bad apple who's been out on the street because people were scared about

pointing out this individual. and it is going to happen, i believe it is. and the only way you can deal with that is make sure you don't live in a gun free zone. a terrorist looks for sitting ducks, not armed citizens. >> australia -- i doubt they let him go out because he was a muslim. the muslim community in australia denounced this man immediately. >> and the attack today was really just another reminder of the threat that the world faces from terrorists like we have been discussing. back at home, the debate continues on how to best get intelligence on jihadists captured overseas. and dick cheney weighed in on his definition of what torture really is. >> torture to me is an american citizen on his cell phone making the last call to his four young

daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper level of the trade center in new york city. torture was what al qaeda did to 3,000 americans on 9/11. >> supreme court justice scalia also has a strong opinion on torture and here's what he just told a swiss radio network. >> i think it is very facile for people to say, oh, torture is terrible. you posit the situation where a person that you know for sure knows the location of a nuclear bomb that has been placed in los angeles and will kill millions of people. you think it's an easy question? you think it's clear that you cannot use extreme measures to get that information out of that person? i don't think that's so clear at all. >> scalia also says torture is

not contrary to the constitution. he in fact points out where in constitution is in any way -- you know what, bob? are you with us? >> i'm with you, i'm just not with scalia. it's cruel and unusual punishment. >> it's not unusual punishment when it's done during the gatting of evidence. >> we never put anybody on here that disagrees with this current line of trying to cover your butt. >> you're on here. >> yeah, me, by myself, that's fine. but we don't put anything on any of our packages here. and the fact of the matter is, dick cheney, when he talks about this stuff, he was responsible for putting together a war that went into iraq, that was not prepared, that did away with the entire army over there and he somehow now is saying it's not his fault. and the other thing is, there's not definitive absolute proof that all of our intelligence

came from these people. >> i don't think anybody has ever said that all of the information came from enhanced interrogation. and it's like justice scalia said, these questions are not easy. these are not people make snap judgments about, these are life and death about protecting people and none of us have ever been in the position of being responsibility for protecti ini innocent life. when you're in that position, you err on the side of protecting people. everything that was done was safe, legal and rare and i'm not saying that all the intelligence came from it, but i think we are wasting too much time talking about those years. >> what about now? >> they have to carve out something that r yes they can. in the executive order that president obama signed. just in case there's ever a possibility that they need to put some pressure on somebody. >> they're not doing it.

>> because, bob, it depends on the circumstances, god forbid if there was another 9/11 or something where they had to go into this very quick real-time intelligence gathering, they have to do what it takes. and believe me, after 9/11, everybody was on board, even people who were on that committee and now after the fact, they're now questioning, and saying maybe you should not have done what we told you to do and told you it was legal at the time. >> there's no logic in having no last reskoort, because when all else fails, do you just go to lunch? we talked to this grooir, and he's not telling us anything, so i guess we're done. no, you go digital. you cross the fingers and toes. you're not doing your job if you don't have this one last thing -- >> what if you can get the

intelligence you need without using enhanced interrogation? >> that would be wonderful if you could talk somebody into it or give them drugs or bribe them. if you can't, you got to have that one little thing. >> and they also try other methods first, they don't just jump to it in one second. >> so torture, that dick cheney points out is also having to make the decision to jump to your deaths on the 80th floor and that you're never going to see your family again. that's the real definition of torture, not the enhanced interrogation techniques. >> allow me to finish this, bob, i haven't said a word. here's where we are right now, we're back to september 12th, 2001, where the day after the towers came down, everyone was on their toes, they were vigilant, they see something, say something, call a cop and the cops went after, they asked someone, taking a picture of a building, what are you doing? i'm going to confiscate that

camera, we're going to see what you're doing, we're back to that. because that's the only way we're going to get safe instead of the pc crap saying don't listen to our -- i think you have probable cause right now, especially with what's going on with every wannabe jihadist in america or around the world is getting in and killing somebody, kill somebody for the hell of it, you can do it alone, you can be a lone wolf, now we have to go back and embolden and enpower our intelligence community to do these things. don't offend muslims right now. >> don't offend iran or china either. >> i'm the last to be accused of that. number one, and number two, if we have isis prisoners, let's water board them. >> these decisions are not made that people don't think what kind of information might this person have. it's a much more thoughtful process. and deliberative. >> the last thing i would say is

that over the last four months, we have talked about several of these lone wolf attacks, eventually you have enough lone wolves to carry out an attack. this guy in australia, this terrorist, he was an extremist preacher at the mosque. remember when the nypd was trying to figure out if that was happening in the mosques here and the government took that power away from our police force? i think we have to rethink that. >> all right, well. >> and we hadn't gotten into iraq, this probably would not be happening at all. [ all talking at once ] >> 9/11 happened before that. >> it wasn't iraq that did it.

>> you're talking about terror. >> i'm blaming a breakdown in intelligence that could have afforded 9/11. three big cities have protested police, and they weren't all peaceful. we're going to tell you something shocking, caught on tape that happened right here on to the streets of new york city. next. [ female announcer ] hands were made for talking.

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. there was a small con zwrint of protesters chanting, what do we want? dead cops. when do we want them? now. dead cops. now. dead cops now. >> what a nice bunch. it didn't look too small to me, if they were pro-lifers, it would have been labeled large and unruly. and a professor attacked two cops around the brooklyn bridge around that time. this goon is grinning because he knows this just got him tenure, an msnbc gig or maybe a job with the mayor who described the

attack as a legend. just like your spine, mr. mayor. the cops were trying to stop the goon from -- one broke a nose, allegedly. the professor also had a backpack full of hammers, allegedly. i guess he's a rovering carpenter. funny how allegedly never comes up when describing accused actions of the police. this isn't about protest at all, but using someone's death to release their own violent theater. they are the biggest thing they have been looking for. maybe if the professor had guts, he would go herein stead. these are the widows and the police killed in the line of duty. they died so you can demonstrate, they died protecting and saving the lives of minorities, creating perhaps the safest city in the world. by comparison, you, mr. professor are pond scum.

we actually, unlike rolling stone our crack producers contacted the guy that filmed the chant to make sure it was legit, the recording, and it turns out it is, which is kind of scary, k.g., having a mob preaching death. does our mayor give a damn? >> i try to go out of my way every time i see a police officer on the streets of new york city, to look them in the eye and say hello. can you imagine what it's like for them to get up in the morning? the men and the women. >> thank you kimberly for helping ought of us. >> just to look at them and say thank you and acknowledge them, because when they get up in the morning and they put on their uniform and they get dressed, they have to go out there knowing they were are persona nongratia, doing a difficult job for not much way and people are yelling dead cops.

they're putting their lives on the lightning every day, they have families they want to go home to as well. fry and be part of the solution, not the problem. >> bob, i will say this, for the most part, the protest was peaceful, they were blocking traffic where i live. they were yelling and screaming at people. but out of 30,000 people, it could have been worse. but do you get the sense that the mayor is scared to support or defend the police too much because they might upset the hard left that got him elected? >> yes, i think it's part of that. but just keep in mind, the whole setup here was to indict the left as part of the people who don't like the police. the left do like the police, i like the police, the idea of an implication that a few guys on a bridge represents the entire electorate -- >> no one said that. >> the i said the implication was. and it's the imp imp indicatio

we do here. >> you don't think that for a second. >> they love bill ayers. >> they didn't love bill ayers a lot of them. the entire left is not endorsing this guy. the entire left, that was the support that was reached. and the fact is that you take these vinnetteslike this, and these horrible sounds they shouldn't have said and all of a sudden that represents the left. >> let me ask you, do you want the producers to make stuff up? because where are the professors who are denouncing this kind of behavior, we are reporting in fact what happened which was a crime committed by this professor, trying to be mr. pc popular. yes, will probably be celebrated in his classrooms and at the university. just like he said he wants the muslims to stand up and say something when they see something that's wrong. >> when a police officer does something wrong, it represents a deeply rooted problem in the police force, but when a guy --

>> who said that? >> no, you have said that, you have often talked about there's a problem with the police. >> u you talked about your past with the police. >> i know, my past, used to be in new york city there was corruption out the max. it is not there now. >> so you're saying these grand jury things are in no way representative of a problem in the police department? >> i think the grand jury in staten island was not a race issues, i think it was a bunch of uninformed yahoos. there were no blacks that voted for it. >> i thought there were blacks on the grand jury. >> that is a nonissue, but blacks did not vote for it. there were 23 -- you need 12 votes to get an indictment? >> that's just wrong. >> we have two other people here. eric, you know that this professor got like 9 grand, as a salary from the taxpayers?

>> you're right, the vast majority of the protests were peaceful protests. let's don't go crazy on me here. they're allowed to say what they want. if they want to say kill a cop, they can say it. a lot of hip-hop songs have an illusion of killing people, military people, good people. but when a professor brings -- he brought hammers, he was allegedly -- allegedly about to throw a garbage can from one level of the brooklyn bridge two to lower level on other cars. >> and there could have been kids in those cars. >> he's breaking the law, and he should be arrested. what's with the smug smile? here's to the best thing that happened to me the whole weekend. the nypd told de blasio to stay home. they said, you know what?

de blasio, we don't want you here. >> and there were liberal professors? >> because we're short on time, he was 29, as a professor. i mean, come on. what are you going to learn from that? >> yeah, he had his passport with him. >> i saw peaceful protests in charleston. >> really? >> i think the row protests are fine, but i hate it when they get really close to the cops' face. the cops just sit there and stare. next on the five, the top list of the whole year.

"the washington post" just released its annual roundup of biggest pinocchios of 2014, and

this year's were listed in no particular order. take a listen. >> long way from when you described them as a jv team. was it bad intelligence or your misjudgment? >> keep in mind, i wasn't specifically referring to isil. what i said was not every regional terrorist organization is automatically a threat to us that would call for a major offensive. >> that of course wasn't true and the post fact checker had an unreleased interview with the president that showed the new yorker reported followed up on obama's initial remarks saying the jv team he just referred to had just taken over syria. there's been lots of them on both sides of the aisle this year, we followed the news closely here. last year's biggest lie was if

you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. what is yours? >> i'm not sure if they fact chekted it or not. when hillary clinton say when i left the house, we were broke. >> dead break. >> whether or not they were positive or negative, within the first year they made $11 million. those speaking engagements were lined up. she knew they were going to be extremely wealthy the minute they walked out of the office. they were worth a few million dollars one year out of office. >> kimberly. >> i picked the agenda project action fund which is a progressive nonprofit gripe which masterfully, and you can see it on youtube. blamed the republicans for spending cuts, said they were costing ebola deaths directly related to the republicans because they refused to do funding, which was completely

false. there was no evidence whatsoever to support it. but it was part of this overall democratic -- >> it's a big pinocchio too. >> it wasn't just democrats that got targeted on this list, bob, what was your favorite of the year? >> my favorite was back during march when you all were breathless about obama care changing the world and changing everything about us. house speaker john boehner said there's been a net loss of people with health insurance, in fact there was a net gain in the millions. >> best lie of the year, i think everybody can agree, red crown, high test live, it's fantastic at making anything you need to disappear and trust me, i use it a lot. also that kale isn't made of people. it's made of people, kale. >> i knew i didn't like it.

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barbara walters returned from retirement to host her ten most fascinating people, taylor swift, oprah winfrey and david koch who we'll get to in just a minute, but the top spot went to -- >> our choice for the most fascinating person of the year, let's see, how do i introduce her? i guess the question is, what does it take to fascinate one of the most fascinating men in the world? she's known primarily through her spouse and while we know

little about her, we know a great deal about him and he has fascinated many women, especially me. >> this is george cloone's beautiful bride. let's put it into perspective, it was really one of the greatest achievements in human history. >> all i'm thinking after hearing that, did she just say that? what does it take to fascinate one of the most fascinating american in the world? >> i'm more interested in how she does this. >> try it again. >> i love that. by the way, last year, if you remember, i was not fascinated by people. i don't like the word fascinating, i'm fascinated by behavior. like why some men still wear saggie pants, i don't understand that. i still don't understand why people drink milk. it's a white fluid that comes

from a cow. it's perverse. i don't understand people who love shush she. why play the lottery? these fascinate me. >> let's all agree that drinking milk is weird. it comes from the bottom of a cow. >> i'll give you that. our makeup artest came in and said that's a great pick. >> she said it was one of the greatest achievements ever in the world. i guess i would have to differ there. >> i'm not -- i think this was a lot for ratings in society magazine. so maybe a lot of people are fascinated by her. i'm just not one of them. >> if this is the greatest achievement in the history of mankind, what was the second? >> penicillin? >> you have a problem? >> no. >> anyway. >> i would have preferred to

focus on her accomplishments in law and working in human rights. i think that would have been more apropos, the fact that she got the guy. >> but her getting married -- >> was very sexy. >> she's the one who got george clooney. also on the list was david koch who along with his brother have been vilified by donating money to the ---here's a sliver of the senate majority leader's opinion. >> a radical billionaire attempting to hijack our democracy. meanwhile families are expected to sit on the sidelines and watch as two brothers try and fix every election in america to their liking. the koch brothers are willing to do anything, even exploit americans suffering from cancer. it's time that the american

people spoke out against the terrible dishonesty of these two brothers who are about as un-american as anyone i can imagine. >> the brothers revealed he lies, david koch reveals where he lies on the political spectrum. >> you are not -- very conservative politics. describe your political point of view? >> i'm basically a libertarian, i'm a conservative on economic matters, and i'm a social liberal. >> you support gay rights, you support a woman's right to choose, a conservative candidate, you support, many of them do not have those views. >> well, that's their problem. i'm -- i do have those views. >> all right, bob, you can take this one first. >> well, i mean it's a fine thing to say that he has those views.

>> well, anyone who is surprised by politico political views actually haven't been paying attention. this is a secret that should be well known. and if you're going to go after it, it should be well known about them. >> i was pretty open about it. >> that was one hell of a stimulating interview. >> you know what it is? this is all about team sports. the right that takes george soros, the left takes the koch brothers. and it doesn't matter how much you know about either of them. you hate the quarterback of their team, you hate the quarterback of your team. >> all the wonderful things they do, contributing to children's hospitals, all the things they do for the arts. they are a philanthropic family. you have people say they're depriving women of the right to choose. i'm so sorry, have you not heard of roe v. wade? women have the right to choose in this country.

>> it's just hysterical behavior and rhetoric that's not backed up by any facts. i don't sit there and say things about him, make personal attacks. >> i'll listen if you have any. >> jercoming up a potential gop 2016 candidate who bob says scares him the most, made some moves this weekend, he'll tell you the news about jeb bush next.

christmas, a good gift for democrats would be news that jeb bush has decided against running for president. but it appears jeb is inching closer. he's about to release 250,000 e-mails from his days as a governor of florida as well as a new e-book. another hint? he's been thinking a whole lot about the last guy to win the gop nomination. >> i think he would have been a spectacular president in his time. he was proven right in a lot of his beliefs and ideas shortly after the election. so winning with purpose, winning with meaning, winning with your integrity is what i'm trying to talk about. >> i'll say, i'm a little

surprised that he was so supportive of romney since romney still hasn't decided not to get in. but there's so many candidates lined up on the right. the last three republican nominees have been relatively moderate. so what do you think? >> it's interesting to see how it's playing out. because if you pay attention to the media, romney is exploring, and you're not going to see a jeb bush and mitt romney running at the same time, so you may see a trial balloon to see how much interest there is. but it seems to me that jeb bush is all in and he wants to run at this time. >> he thinks he can overcome the competition or he wouldn't get in. >> i didn't think that marco rubio was actually going to put his hat in the ring. there are others, but i didn't think that marco rubio would do

that yet. i don't think that the gop is in a position right now to be narrowing any of its options. so let's hear them all out. and if jeb bush, i think is smart, i don't think he's smart, i know he's smart. but this timing is interesting because there's nobody else talking about it right now, so he can actually probably dominate the news for the next month and a half just by getting his decision out there. >> there's rick santorum, there's probably huckabee, there's likely to be rand paul, so that's a lot of people on the right. and bush sits sort of comfortably on the right of center. >> but do you know who's not going to be in the republican? >> me. >> sad thing. >> it is because -- >> you don't want to release your e-mails? >> the idea of releasing e-mails, i have lived my life assuming that i wouldn't be in politics so the things i have said in my e-mails are

disgusting. my comments about lou dobbs, if it ever got out, it would just crush me. >> all this time i thought you were going to run. i like jeb bush, i like the bush family, all of them. i like what they stand for. we have a couple of disagreements about common core, but other than that, i think he's a man that's willing to listen to reason, is highly capable and skilled, and i just want them to win, i want someone who's going to win and put this country back on the right direction. >> he insisted on an immigration finally gets pushed through and the other one is common core, but i don't think that's enough to beat him. one more thing is up next. issin. so my buddy here is going to help me find it. here we go. woo who, woah, woah, woah. it's out there somewhere spreading the word about america's favorite potatoes: heart healthy idaho potatoes

and the american heart association's go red for women campaign. if you see it i hope you'll let us know. always look for the grown in idaho seal.

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and that's a big reason why the u.s. is a world leader in reducing co2 emissions. take the energy quiz -- round 2. energy lives here. . one more thing. dana. >> i get to go first. yesterday i sold you csu, the colorado state university at pueblo, had their semifinal game of football, they played on saturday night, they beat west georgia, double trick play, then they make a touchdown and then there was like something or like an interception, the good news is that the thunder wolfes are going to the final game in

kansas city, and my good friends are going to be there at the game. so good luck to you, thunder wolves. next stop, espn. >> whoa. all right, eric. >> also some other good news in the sporting world. koufax ridgeview, they were playing for the illinois state championship. seventh grade girls, my niece is on that team. guess what? next picture, they won it. state champions, there they are. she told me not to put her picture up, i'm sorry, i am a proud uncle of the koufax ridgeview. i got my gut check on the sony fiasco and what it means for you. >> that picture is very devil's advocate. >> there you are looking back for many years, i tried to get a

little message out to folks, i am suffering from an unbelievably bad back which is why i'm not quite as animated as i usually am. but it is so bad some days i can't get out of bed. i would urge all of you, watch yourself, your back particularly, i let it go, i played football, i didn't do enough work on it. i didn't do this and didn't do that, i'm paying the price, i may have to have surgery. >> send your back medication to me and i'll get it to bob. >> and be careful who you go out on dates with. okay, my turn. and i have the most adorable pictures you have ever seen. yes, a sweet cutie patootie. it is prince george the royal baby. they released these pictures also as a favor to the media because they allowed the prince to live a rather unintrusive life. and they say he's energetic,

just like his father, tearing around kensington palace all the teem. >> that's it for us, special report is coming up next. a lone wolf terrorist homeland security hostages for most of a day in downtown sidney. this is special report. good evening, i'm doug mcelway in for bret baier who is on assignment. we begin tonight's coverage with an act of terror. three people including the gunman are dead after a 16-hour long hostage siege in sidney, australia. four others were injured. >> reporter: 16 hours into the hostage situation, and armed officers move in.