the world is turning because of karma. it can be so awful that it comes back to bite you. sometimes it takes decades. in this case it could take days from now. hello, everyone, i'm dana, along with kimberly, bob, and greg. it's 5:00 in new york city and this is "the five." reaction to the senate intel committee's report on the cia's enhanced interrogation methods continued last night with fox news scoring two very big interviews, first, rob o'neil, the navy s.e.a.l. who killed osama bin laden, saying the information gathered from enhanced interrogation techniques directly led to the mission that took down the al qaeda leader. >> find them in a lie and then exploit them.

>> to khalid sheikh mohammed -- they were using techniques that weren't torture but they were definitely uncomfortable. like i said, they got him out of his comfort zone. >> lost last night, megyn kelley sat down with james mitchell who says waterboarding isn't what broke 9/11 mastermind khalid sheikh mohammed. >> what was it that finally broke khalid sheikh mohammed. >> we felt that waterboarding wasn't particularly effective on him. >> it was not? >> it was not. >> so how did you get him to the point where he wound up providing what we're told is very useful information? >> the other eit, i don't really want to say which ones they were. >> mitchell also described how the release of the report by the senate democrats has him fearing for his life. >> how many times in your life have you had a law enforcement official call you up in the middle of the day and say, leave your house immediately.

that happened to me a couple of days ago. >> do you feel your life is in danger? >> of course. you have to be cautious and you do feel your life is in danger? i don't mind, i do not mind giving my life for my country, but i do mind giving my life for a food fight between two people who should be able to work it out like adults. >> i want to play one more soundbite from james mitchell because he talked about that report and what it's done to his safety and others. >> it shows al qaeda and the al qaeda 2.0 forecalks that we're divided and that we're easy targets. that we don't have the will to defeat them. because that's what we know. al in fact khalid sheikh mohammed told me personally, your country will turn on you,

the liberal media will turn on your, the people will grow tired of this, they will turn on you, and when they do, you are going to be abandoned. >> the woman who got that interview, megyn kelly, the chot of the kelly file. what were your reactions after you sat with him. >> it was a stunning revelation to me, but he's in the middle of telling what it's like to water board khalid sheikh mohammed. we need to hear from the man directly who's been accused of senator feinstein and the others in the senate to be a torturer. and when you hear him explain it from start to finish, you have such a better feel for why he did it, how he did it, and what

was going through hiss mind and you can only wish that to the senate democrats had taken the time to speak with this man before they had issued this report and he wasn't -- he wasn't relegated to offering his first thoughts on it. >> we're going to get a chance, everybody's going to get a chance to ask the question, so i will hold my second one and let eric go next. >> when i heard you were going to have him on, it was must-see, awesome job booking that guy. here's the question, though, at one point -- i'm sorry, dr. mitchell, at one point he said he didn't want to be the guy who interrogated. he didn't want to be the water border. but then he changed his mind. >> he was a reluctant warrior and this is a psychologist who was advising the cia on counter terrorism techniques and what might overcome someone's resistance and then they came to him and said we need you to do it and he said i don't really want to. they said, if not you then who?

he says he had the image in his head of the people who were jumping off the world trade center faced with death by fire or jumping to their death. he thought of the passengers he said on united flight 93 who gave their lives to protect people in the u.s. capitol. and he said if they could risk their lives to safe other americans, i can do this to save other americans, he said it was hard, it was emotionally stressful on all of us who participated. it's nothing we enjoyed. we didn't want to do it. but he said i did it for my country, and i'm not shamed, i'm proud. he said the cia came to me afterwards and they said he saved lives. >> kimberly? you know what struck me is he said he feared for his life but he would do it again, essentially giver his life for his country, but he has an issue with this so-called political food fight, he said they did not

interview the actual interrogators in putting together this very one sided report. >> imagine being this guy james mitchell, he's working for his country, not making a lot of dough, he advised on counter terrorism techniques, but then they ask him to be a contractor for -- but he goes over there and he does it. and then, suddenly the senate democrats issued this report that he thinks basically told the world who he was. and before you know it, his anonymity is lost and now he's gets death threats, he said last week, the police called him and said get out of your house immediately. that's not something that's appealing. he knows that no one who was on that committee ever called him to just hear his side of the story. he said i know you think it's one sided, it was only democrats and no republicans. no republicans, no cia analysts,

no one who participated in the program got to have their say, got to offer any concepts, any perspective. he's pointed out that in this report issue bid the democrats, they talk about how there were abuses of the program, those analysts were over there and they went too far and others had to report these abuses. he says they make it sound like i was doing the abuses, actually i was the one reporting them. but they don't mention that in the report. >> greg? >> i guess i have a comment, maybe a question, it seems to me that this conversation, which everybody loves to use that word, about torture, it's really not a debate. i get the picture that everybody knows that torture is repulsive, but torture can be simultaneously wrong, but also necessary. we all know that cannibalism is against the law, it's awful, repulsive, unless you're the donner party, unless it's a last resort. and the fact is last resorts are called the last resort for that very reason and without a last resort. you do not have a first resort.

because it defines everything that you do. you have to have that final step to know where you can go, that you're exhausted everything else that's possible. i don't get the sense that any of these people were particularly happy with what they did. >> you see this man,man--he say there was a call of duty and he answered it. but he talks about the techniques and talks about how these detainees, they knew the techniques that khalid sheikh mohammed, he actually said last night that waterboarding is not what did it for khalid sheikh mohammed, he said that ksm would count down the waterboarding, because they had a number of seconds that they were allowed to pour the water on these plmes faces, he shortened the time frame and khalid sheikh mohammed

used to basically taunt them during the waterboarding, they knew they could only do 20 seconds. he knew it was time limited. i'm not saying it was a joy. but he offered a new perspective on how it actually went down. >> i was just reading an article, an interview with stanley mcchrystal, the general in both iraq and afghanistan who said that these enhanced interrogation techniques, he was allowed to use them, but he chose not to. were they convinced that this was the last resort? >> i think he said he believed given the times that they were. that's part of the problem with this report, is that it's so 20/20 hindsight. here we are now in 2014, and everybody's willing to pass judgment on these guys who were trying to keep us safe within days, weeks and months of the actual 9/11 terrorist attack. he said the reporting of the time that he was getting, this

is the cia analyst. it's not like he's just some guy reading it on the blog. the actual intelligence was we could be facing a nuclear attack, we believe the united states may be subjected to a dirty bomb and that you guys are the ones who have the extract the information about said attacks from these guys who have gone out and captured. i mean, under those circumstances, clearly what you would actually do. >> megyn, you have part two coming up tonight. and we have a little, just a tiny snippet of it. >> they tried to decapitate us the last time, they tried to destroy our civilization and people were clamoring to do everything p and anything they could that was legal and take it right up to the line and save american lives. because that's what our government is supposed to do. save american lives. >> what is part two like for people that want to tune in? >> i asked him about criticisms

of him in the senate report, because they go after him and undermine him so he gets to explain a lot of that. and i asked him whether it was torture, he answers and then i asked him, did it feel like torture when you were doing it? and if you watch for no other reason, watch to hear his answer to that question. >> i still have the gavel, i will continue. i was just curious if you had heard from any of the family members, or what sort of reaction you received and the sort of feedback you have from this interview. >> i have had a lot of overwhelming responses online from 9 from 9/11 family members and just our viewers in general, all of which were positive, i have not had any negative feed back against dr. mitchell. in fact people were so grateful to hear from one of the people that was actually involved as opposed to the armchair quarterbacks who we normally are

listening to. i mean this guy was there and is sitting down there in florida right now wonderering whooir nobody came to traumatic to him when they were trying to do a comprehensive report on the cia interrogation program, which he in large part designed and which he in large part designed and he has encylopedic knowledge. >> tune in tonight at 9:00 for meg megyn's interview. vo: the good more is capturing heey! the moment they open their gifts from verizon. awesome, woah! a bose bluetooth speaker! and...cut. the not-so-good-more alright honey, this time face towards the light. is take two. were you naughty? were you nice? that's the tension i need to see. alright, we're losing light, people.

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well some big news rocking the world of politics, this morning, florida governor jeb bush announced he's seriously considering a run for the republican presidential nomination in 2016 with this facebook post. i have decided to actively explore the possibility of running for president of the united states. in the coming months, i hope to visit with many of you and have a conversation about restoring the promise of america. but the spokesperson says he has not made a final decision on how

he will run, how will this affect the rest of the gop hopefuls, dana? >> what i like about this, if anybody has done this before, he really sees the first mover advantage. so the next few weeks, the critics of jeb bush, and they are loud and vocal and fierce. they will get that out of their system in the next few days. the hard work, i think is yesterday to come except for the infrastructure, it is a massive undertaking, i think the clintons kind of already have this in blais, and the republicans, whoever does emerge from the primary, that will be difficult for them. i don't think other republican governors expected jeb bush to move this quickly. and so that might be an advantage for him. it this point, as i said yesterday, i don't think any of the republicans are able to

narrow down their options, here we go, it's going to be a fun two years. >> do you wish him well? >> let me make something here, i knew him as a friend and colleague. not really as a colleague. i'm not endorsing him, i'm not a fan, i don't work for him, i'm not a pundit. >> for one, i agree with your earlier move and i think it's upset a lot of people that -- he thinks he can raise money around the country and campaign basically. exploratory money doesn't -- the only reason reason he would not

run, but this is the first candidate in the race for absolutely certain. >> from a strategy position, you like the fact that he got out front because this is oeshlly a -- he's like the first one out of the pac. >> he can take the hits now like jamey says, he will take it. but hits are only so good so many times. if you're going to take them, they take them back and back and back. this is going to force other people to get into the race. >> talking about the impacts on other gop hope 238s who you think might jump in and how this might impact their decision making. >> he hasn't necessarily decided yet, but it hasn't changed his plans whatever they were in any way, shape or form. a lot of people are saying if i'm not going to volt for jeb

bush, i would vote for chris christie. i'm naming the governors because those are the ones who say they would vote for a gop governor rather than a senator right now or others. chris christie, scott walker is probably not affected either. >> what about rick perry? >> i like rick perry personally, i just don't think he's a viable candidate. i will tell you, there are dates that are important. january 31st, april 15th, are the first two days that the sec requires you to state what you have raised and you need to have that on the books. so i think what jeb has done, is he's pushed it forward a little bit, so if people were going to wait to push it past that april 15th date, maybe whoever was going to jump in. rand paul, some o others. >> i think romney has said if

jeb bush doesn't want to run, he would run. but he'll support him. >> the rubio thing is what you would say, he's toast, the fact is the money in that state is going to go to bush, it's not going to go to rubio. and you've got to defend your own state. the earlier you're out, the earlier you get an infrastructure out there. i bet you bush has raised a lot of money. >> the word on the street is that he's got cash. >> greg, i'm going give you two full minutes to enjoy. >> this was tonight bush i wanted, i wanted billy. >> good choice. >> what's interesting and what's obvious is if he gets the nomination, hillary gets it, you got bush versus clinton which everybody talks about, but this could be the rebirth of 1992, talking about sinead o'connor, we could rerelease basic

instincts. woody allen could leave sun ye for another stepdaughter. maybe eddie fisher is going to shoot somebody. the royal couple could separate, 1992, and the best part about 1992, i think 1992 was a great year. >> the good old days. >> they were to the good old days. >> i keep talking about clinton and bush, the fact of the matter is these are the two former presidents, they have the name and these are the logical people you would look at for the potential-runnfront-runners. >> clinton again. >> i would choose bush over a clinton absolutely hands down no question. but there are those on the right, dana pointed out. the far right doesn't want to see another bush clinton. >> do they want to see another obama. >> because that's what i want to ask them. >> it wouldn't be such a bad thing to have another obama from the republican party side, a

real candidate is one that genuinely acts and sounds like a -- has the mannerisms and the humor and the charm of a democrat, because that's what's been missing from the republicans since reagan. >> and you've been praying to your unicorn every nights and one hasn't been conjured up yet. >> there you go. >> i think the other thing he has said about himself, that he said he would have a hard time in the primary. so he already has been disarming in that the critics are going to say, but he could have won the primary. so he's already said that he knows that he's going to have a hard time. i think it's pretty smart. >> another thing about not winning the primary. they can play that game all they want. bush could win iowa and win it handedly. the last two republican nominees were the moderates in the race, and the conservatives can't put together enough votes to win it. >> also check the box in florida and amazing love it, a latina

family as well. so i think's going to be good too. i think someone who's willing to look for reasons to -- some big-time celebrities like oprah and brad pitt are speak out about the sony hacking scandal. and the heart throb when we return. stay with us.

. some big hollywood stars are now pushing back hard against the media in the hacking scandal. angelina jolie is taking -- >> i think too much conversation whether on e-mail or in person should be private and we shouldn't be participating in these sites that are disseminating them should stop,

they won't. then we should stop reading them, we won't. it's more of an indictment on us, i think. >> even the newsroom creator whose name appeared in some of the e-mails called out news outlets from printing materials from the massive sony leak. >> is there anything in these e-mails at all that's in the public interest that points to wrong doing at the company? that helps anyone in any way? there isn't, there's just gossip there, how many different bed rom pieces of our decency do you have to obliterate before the press stops the anchor round of these relay tragedy. >> we have been saying here, don't publish this stuff. and thwart some of it. >> the thing is, though, when we say that we're taking the higher ground, i agree with sony, i agree with all of them. i hope they return the favor

that the next time someone like sarah palin is hacked in their e-mails, are crowd sourced by newspapers, they don't rub their hands with glee, they remember that people who don't necessarily agree with them now are backing them and they do agree that gossip and personal revelations are off. i don't know if brad pitt or oprah defended sarah palin when she got hacked. >> i thought it was interesting because brad pitt coming out in front of this topic, when in fact one of the lead females pertained to his wife saying that she was talented and was disparaging about angelina jolie, don't file bad for publishing this. >> it's ter rim. . >> like sony wrote about -- he's actually supporting sony who's publicing e-mails that say bad things about his wife.

>> do you think other media will say that it's conservative or it's not opposite of their ideology, will they hold back. >> i will definitely make that pact if i believed for one second that they do anything. remember when president bush's e-mails were hacked and some of his paintings were revealed and the media printed it with glee. i think what brad pitt was saying, the only way to stop it is everybody stop reading those publications or those publications stop printing it. neither of those things are going to happen. so then what is the next step? it does seem to me that whoever the hackers, plural or singular are, are having quite an impact on the internal workings of what they said about one another and their clients, also about the movie premier, for which this has been the subject and, you know, if it was somebody in north korea or china, we have got to realize that this could happen with all sorts of hostage

taking. >> jennifer an nis on tniston, stole brad pitt, it's all about -- >> this really doesn't have politics on it, because we're all in the same boat together, you can't build a fire wall strong enough to keep others out. it scares me to death. if it happened to me, i would be total post, i mean toast. >> i want to play a sound bite and i want bob to react to this, whether you believe the hacking details needed to be reported or not, oprah winfrey advised critics. >> i would hope that we would not stand in judgment in such harsh judgment of the moments in time where somebody was hacked in their private conversations were put before the world.

because if we were to look at your computer, and everybody else's commuter, i try to write everything as though it's going to show up in the "new york times." but there are things that you stay in your private conversations with your friends and your colleagues that you would not want be broadcast on cnn. >> it's fine to say that, but when you're talking about something that's racial like that, i'm not sure that she's being quite balanced on this. you're right, if fox news or somebody else did it, and said something that was racially sensitive, she would be the first one to jump in. >> asking the question what kind of black movies he would go see. that wasn't racist. what they were doing was a commentary on racism. they were joking as though they were racist. and this has become a huge problem for a lot of people who

do not get offended. >> the joke within the joke? >> they were pretending to actually be a bigot on their e-mail. they're asking, ask him offensive he saw the bullet. they were pretending they weren't racist. that happened to me with a joke got a month ago, everybody thought it was a sexist joke. i was actually mocking sexism. but nobody got it. >> the media excuses people if it's a comedian, if it's chris rock, or if it's louie c.k. if it's not a comedian, it's said in the same tone or the same purpose. >> there will always be a double standard with fox. we don't follow the same assumptions as hollywood. get used to it, it's never going to change. >> to the uva rape story wants a rewrite as witnesses are saying

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the hack behind the discredited rolling stone piece about a gang rape at the university of virginia is getting a do over. the ap reports that sab greena erdely was -- staying she is rereporting the whole thing. the friends say they were completely mismore trayed by erdely, betrayed them about the social -- in reality, they did tell her to go to the cops, but she refused. call me crazy, but i think it might be better having someone else do this story, this would be like giving a chef another

shot at dinner after giving the whole restaurant the runs. this is like giving al sharpton a tv show after tawan aerks brawly. no one deserved a cushy job, especially when they're so bad at it. sabrina came in with a bias and engi engineered this sfoir to get that bias. she wanted to smear an institution, but instead smeared everyone including herself. 6 fabrications only serve to create an environment of rage. >> i don't know if this second chance is affiliated with rolling stone, but can anyone fake her seriously as a journalist? >> no, no one can even read it, why does she get the chance to go back and do it? she has proof conclusively

beyond any reasonable doubt that she is unfit to be a journalist and put forward a story like this. under what concept is she allowed to do over? you're allowed a do over when you're in kindergarten or second grade. it's actually called a mulligan. >> but this is an active isz journalist, she's often talked about how she looks for victims in order to frame stories, can't can she ever really be taken seriously as a journalist. i suspect if she has any opening -- >> these active hiss focus on college females. it seems like females have a 20% lower chance of victimization than people who aren't in

college. here's what sabrina did, she started with her premise and she backed and filmed and never interviewed the people that were accused. senator feinstein started a premise that torture is bad. she backed and filled, she went and found some interrogation techniques they were using, never interviewed the people that were accused of doing it. why aren't we holding feinstein under the same rules? is there a redo on the senate interrogation report i'm all for that. rolling stone, you're right, should definitely not go back to the same reporter who literally screwed this up. >> you they not agree with the report that -- lisa came out with some facts. >> she spoke to megyn kelly who

spoke to the doctor who administered -- >> you wouldn't put up with it in a court of law, but it's okay to bring spirit ch people who were trying to keep us safe. you like the outcome, that's what you go on? do i like the outcome? do i agree with the premise? is it partisan enough? the answer is yes, so therefore it's good for you. >> the answer is yes, therefore it's going to go into torture. what about the future of rolling stone. how does this affect -- do they get a crisis manager? >> what about that are checking to see the articles before hand? >> i think that's what you call an editor. >> i don't know what will happen to them. i think most publications are struggling. long form journalism like that is an important contribution to the conversation. but it has to be accurate and -- from what i can tell, rolling stone is just basically batoning

down the hatches, weathering the storm, and coming out with a new issue in january. >> it's still probably not as bad as the tsarnaev cover. that might be worse this afterno afternoon -- >> there were a lot of people that were affected by that boston bombing. rolling stone sucks. up next, a college professor targets a christian tradition for millions of families, bob breaks down the elf on the shelf controversy when we return. dn't. quitting smoking this time was different because i got a prescription for chantix. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. the fact that it reduced the urge to smoke helped me get that confidence that i could do it. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood,

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watching your kids' every move, and reports back to santa if they're being naughty or nice. the elf on to the shelf is teaching children to think that spying is part of life. it's poisoning their kids' brains by making them think it's okay to invade their privacy. this thing is sits on the shelf

for a couple of months, kids are telling told that they're watching, they say it's helping kids to calm down. >> it's only been around for seven or eight years. that that elf could actually get in contact with santa claus that quickly. i don't get this whole phenomenon. >> i can don't get it either. >> afarnpparently they're not allowed to touch it. >> don't touch it. if you touch it, the elf looses it's magic power. >> i'm thinking about professors who think it's worth stirring up a controversy about this. they must have had a really bad childhood. >> i think it bears a striking resemblance to greg gutfeld.

commercial misappropriation, this is a big money maker. >> i was in ikea the other day and a shelf fell on me. >> this is meant to watch children so they don't do bad things, this is not new, this as a child what we called dead relative who is passed away. as a kid, you didn't do certain things because you thought granny was watching, so that kept you from certain types of behaviors that perhaps you shouldn't be doing. >> you remember when you had a relative that was put in thetheir living room for their wakes?

i had an uncle do that and i slept outside for days. >> you operate your lives on under the threat of surveillance. >> it's not a terrible thing for kids to think that their're being watched. >> they should react morally without being watched. >> they're afraid of santa claus being mad at them but not their parents. >> getti ting out of one of the worst blocks we have had on this show. introducing the new philips norelco shaver series 9000 with contour detect technology that flexes in 8 directions for the perfect shave at any angle. go to philips.com/new to save up to $40. innovation and you. philips norelco.

s . it's time now for one more thing, i will go first, one of my favorite people is steve skully, he is host of the washington journal on cspan. and he had a debate this morning between two brothers, they were debating the affordable care act. they took callers on that show, and they had a surprise one this morning. watch this. >> hey, somebody from down south. >> you're right, i'm from down south and i'm your mother and i disagree that all families are like ours.

i don't know many families that are fighting at thanksgiving. i was very glad that this thanksgiving was a year that you two were supposed to go to your in-laws and i'm hoping you'll have some of this out of your system when you come here for christmas. >> good for you, mom, bring us all together. a little reminder from mom is always good. >> i think that's cute. kimberly, you're next. >> i've got a funny one because you didn't have enough oprah in your face today. we have oprah and jimmy fallon who did a little skit together. >> you've been quite distachbnt lately, and i want you to answer this question and i want you to answer honestly. >> what about it, darling? >> i'm seeing another man. >> how dare you?

>> i like it. entertaining. >> you're easily entertained, though. >> that's for sure, wow. >> isn't that a nice thing? >> yes, i mean -- >> easy to feed and easy to entertain, what's wrong with that? >> greg, you get to go next. >> um, this. i hate these people. yeah, if you live on the coast, which god help you, there's new trend called artesinal ice, which is ice basically made to your -- this is a little notice that comes, our ice is produced at the bar with the crystal clear ice, we're the first bar that has an ice production program. god bless you and your block ice

production program. >> do you have to pay extra for that? >> the drinks were amazing. >> it's probably shaved, it's probably chipped with an ice chipper. it's probably fantastic. a cocktail with that? >> i'll tell you the name, i crossed it out because i didn't want them to hate me. >> do they carve it like with designs or something? >> it's just- >> it's not even that good, bob. >> this should become a whole block on the show. pun intended. >> this is a nice story for christmas. a cashier in rotterdam, new york, named jenny carter, he didn't have enough to pay for his grocery, he said is this enough and she said no, it's not, he was going to tooirk some of them back and she took out $40 so he could take all his

groceries home. i hope the gentleman you helped will always remember the good on your part. >> i actually loved this story. you hear what happened today? apparently new york magazine interviewed a high school kid who said he earned $70 million at his time at stiverson high school in new york. they went to print with the magazine. i believe it's on the newsstands, he was just a little bit shy of $72 million. you know how much he made? >> goose egg. >> nothing at all, another example of magazine editors not fact checking the whole story. >> reporters that don't know anything about stocks or economics because they would not have bought this. >> right. as soon as we heard it -- >> her name is jessica, i'm sorry we had to do that, just fact check the article. >> he's a kid. >> zero, nothing.

>> that kit's going to end up going far. before we go, tonight is the first night of hanukkah, we want to wish a very happy hanukkah to all who celebrate it. we're tracking two big stories at this hour, the tall ban taliban invaded a school and -- first, a federal court in pennsylvania has declared parts of president obama's executive action on immigration unconstitutional. let's go straight to correspondent shannon breen for what happened and what it means. shannon? >> in the first ruling of its kind, a federal judge in pennsylvania, said today, the president's executive actions regarding immigration exceeded his constitutional authority. and cited the president's own speeches and remarks on that issue.