not? good night from washington, i'm greta. >> america in black and white and o'reilly factor special is on tonight. >> what are you going to do? >> protests are up around the country after two grant juries declined to indict white police officers who killed an armed black man. did the grievance industry exploit these tragedies? we'll debate it with russell simmons. >> did the mob violence of ferguson, missouri, set back race relations in america? we'll analyze that troubling question. >> a show of support for the hands up don't shoot movement. >> was that appropriate? using an nfl football game to weigh in on a very controversial

issue? we have some thoughts. >> caution. you are about to enter the no spin zone. america in black and white, a o'reilly, thank you right now. for watching "america in black and white." for the next hour, we'll examine race relations in the usa from many different angles. you may have noticed that i do more reporting and analysis on black/white relations than anyone else on television. i do so because i feel terrible about the issue being exploited by people who are not looking out for the folks. these people are race hustlers, exploiters. they have businesses built on people disliking each other. so i think that i with this mel

aphone, the factor, should counter that. and that's why we're doing this special this evening. we begin with my recent talking points about why grand juries give police the benefit of the doubt. back in 1993, jesse jackson was quoted by "the new york times" as saying this. "there is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, look around and see somebody white and feel relieved." reverend jackson was just being honest, putting forth that many americans feel uneasy in the presence of young black males, especially in the inner city. african-americans now make up 13% of the american population. but 36% of the prison population. whites, 63%st general, 33% prison inmates. hispanics, 17% of the general, 22% of prisoners. you can see the crimes committed by blacks dominate the

statistics. african-americans commit more murders than whites even though the population difference is huge. so that is the primary reason that grand juries give the police the benefit of the doubt when there is an incident in the black community. the high crime rate there permeates. also, most americans understand that police work is difficult. right now they're about 670,000 law enforcement agents in america. last stats available, almost 50,000 police officers were assaulted. 76 cops died on the job. so there's no question that police work is intense, especially in poor neighborhoods. we're all human beings. we all form general impressions about life. sad to say the overt impression formed about young black males who act and speak in a certain way is negative. may not be fair, but it's

reality. faced with that, some police officers unfairly target young black males and those officers must be stopped. most cops try to be fair, i really believe that. many politicians are too cow ardly to tell you talking points i just stated. they all know the truth, they all know the stats. but they refuse to discuss the core problems, poor education, poor family structure, and an attitude of defiance toward law enforcement. listen to new york city mayor. >> there is something fundamental we have to get at here. it's not going to be helped by accusing either the community or the police of having bad intention or not doing their job. in fact, i think everyone is trying to do their job. of course communities want to keep themselves safe. of course parents want to teach their children to be law abiding. >> most parents do try to teach their children to be law abiding. but as mr. deblazio, the

collapse of traditional family means that fathers are not around. mothers are overwhelmed and parental guidance is scant. so for the mayor to claim that the parental unit in general is unified in supporting law enforcement is absurd. rather than discuss the core problems that lead to police confrontations, politicians like d deblazio demonize the police. that liberal attitude empowers chaotic young people who are not held accountable from a very young age. and then when they finally go over the line, they wind up in prison or in the morgue. truth is the government cannot control personal behavior, only peer pressure k only united neighborhoods can. when the regular folks come together and say enough, then they support the police by turning in violent people, when they speak out against teenage girls becoming pregnant, and when they encourage solid family values, that's when the underclass crime problem will

begin to subside. one final thing. when you hear someone say they want to have a conversation about race, that often means they want to talk about theory, things that happened in america 150 years ago. don't really want to solve the problem that exists today. and that's it. the top story tonight, kevin powell, the founder of bk nation. and we have a fox news analyst. where am i going wrong? >> your entire premises false. the notion that this is funded by or fueled by weak families is totally inaccurate. racism is alive in america. and a lot of people don't want to talk about racism. you're making this a law enforcement problem. >> that's what it is. >> it's not a law enforcement problem. it's allocation of resources problem. it's a justice problem. >> okay. well law enforcement and justice i hate to inform you, reverend, are tied in together. now do you believe -- >> not an argument. >> do you believe --

>> that's the whole point. >> do you believe that most police officers in america don't like you because of the color of your skin? >> that's irrelevant. >>, no it's not. that's a key question. >> i'm concerned when i'm in the presence of most police officers in america. when a police officer walks up to me, i don't see a friend walking towards me. >> do you know that 99.9% of all police interactions with american citizens result in no violence. do you know that? >> of course i know that. >> then why would a rational person like you ab frayed of that? >> because if a policeman can shoot a 12-year-old because he couldn't distinguish between whether he was a 12-year-old or 20-year-old on two seconds notice -- mistakes, see, there are white people who live in public housing who never been shot accidentally by a policeman. >> so you do believe that police come in and target black people? >> i didn't say that. >> that's what you're saying to me. >> what i'm taking away from you. >> i believe and others in our community believe that we're at ris income a way that other

americans are not. >> because cops target blacks. >> no, because cops have a different value than the system has a different value toward black life. which is why black life matters. >> i couldn't disagree with you more. mr. powell, do you believe that most american police agents, 670,000 of them, don't like you because the of the color of injure skin? >> i believe that we live in a country that is so rooted in racism, it permeates every aspect of society. >> and how does that define itself? am i a racist? do i come across as someone that doesn't ask black people? >> even your opening memo, the way you presented all that stuff about black people, i'm sitting here thinking to myself, you know what? i can say the same thing about young white males who committed most of the majority of mass shootings in this country. i wouldn't say that. because i'm not going to say that all white men are racist. >> do you dispute the statistics? >> yeah. manufacture the crimes out there from wall street crimes to certain drug arrests, a lot of

the things are white people doing the things. >> so you believe the police don't arrest white people? >> i believe that sometimes people manipulate statistics to prove their agenda. >> these are fbi stats. >> well, sir, i know they're not accurate stats. >> did you know that black americans commit 1,000 more murders a year than white americans even though blacks are 13% of the population and whites are 63%? >> sir, what i also know is that -- >> am i racist for pointing that out? >> i also know that violent permeates every part of this society, black societies, bhit societies. >> 13 as opposed to 63 and 1,000 more murders a year? >> here's what i would say to you, sir, with all due respect. my thing is are we going to have a issue about racism not 150 years ago but in 2014? you ask the question, do people feel threatened if they encounter police officers? i'll be talking about 14, 15 years old, absolutely not. i saw police officers as my

friend. that's how i was raised. but when i got up by a police officer when i was 15 years old, a white police officer in jersey city and i weighed 90 pounds and i was perceived to be a threat at some sort of big man. i was 5'2" maybe, that sent a message that somehow or another as a young black male -- >> the atrocity of one police officer is the fault of all? >> is it this is happening to white males in this country. it is happening from michael brown to rice to others. it would be an epidemic. >> michael brown attacked that police officer. i'll give you 30 seconds to sum up. >> in my judgment and the judgment of many in our community this, they took john gotti alive. they took lee harvey oswald alive. so even our criminals are treated differently than white criminals. >> pretty far out there reverend. all right. last word. >> it's not far out there. the reality is we have a serious issue in racism. if you look at the froests, it's not just black people. there are white people out

there, asian people out there. >> you need to define who is leading the presence. >> they understand this affects everyone in society. the older generations are holding on to racism. young people of all different backgrounds. >> you generalizing a lot of good people. >> they're shutting down toys r you us and this conversation will change as you feel the economic and other effects political and economic. >> next on the rundown, tension here in new york city between the police and the mayor over how to deal with crime in the black community. former mayor rudy giuliani responds on our special american black and white continues.

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rudy giuliani has been vocal about the problems plaguing the black community. he says heavy police presence in urban areas is a way of stopping crime and has nothing to do with racism. not everyone agrees. >> how about 70% or 75% of the crime in my city is blacks. >> i think this is a debate -- >> how about you reduce crime. >> when i become mayor, i'll do that. >> the police officers won't there be if you weren't killing each other. >> wait. >> so mr. dyson teaches at georgetown. you saw his body language. he's dismissive. he thinks -- not that you're a white supremacist. >> i think he accused me of that. >> to be fair to him, i don't think he's calling you that. but he was clearly dismissive of you.

despite the fact you saved thousands of lives in the minority community. what is it in your opinion that drives people like dyson? >> the narrative that the police are the cause of everything is first of all gets great attention. it gets them great attention. if we're talking about the sharptons and these other people, this is the reason why people pay attention to them. these incidents make them very, very famous. the other problem for the 96% that are being killed is too difficult for them. most people don't assume responsibility, they point the finger somewhere else. you start talking about why is it that 75% of the murders in new york city involve blacks killing other blacks, 96% of blacks are killed by other blacks, white murder is 4%, 5%, 6%. you start asking those questions, those are very, very tough questions. stle to answer. it has to do with family. it has to do with culture, the way people are brought up. it has to do with education system. that is a disaster that the

mayor won't change. he's not in favor of vouchers. he tried to get rid of charter schools. >> there's a lot of controversy about how slavery and the depravation of blacks over the years affect what happens now. i don't want to get into that. what i want to get into is when you were mayor, you had a deal with al sharpton. you had to deal with him personally. he was around in new york city. how did you deal with him? deblazio, he is his best friend. >> i watched the crown heights riots happen. >> in brooklyn? >> in brooklyn. i think sharpton had a lot to do with insighting the riots. they made all the same mistakes they made in ferguson and st. louis. they had a venting period. like three or four hours where people could break windows, throw rocks. >> do whatever they wanted. >> yeah. i read the report which was done for governor cuomo that talked about the mistakes. one of the mistakes was he said a cooling off period becomes a heating up period.

you have to stop the first stone, first rock, the first window. i also realized that by dealing with sharpton, the mayor was elevating him at the same level of the mayor. and here was my rule. i'm not dealing with it. i will only deal with people who have a legitimate interest in really solving the problem and i never found in any of the problems i had that al sharp ton. >> so you had nothing to do with it? >> i froze all of them out who had no legitimate interest in solving the problem. >> therefore, they hated you. >> they hated me. >> demonized you as some racist guy. >> i turned from new york city from the crime capital of america to the safest large city in america in four years and the major beneficiary of that is the black community. and what they have done for the black community for 30 years except watch a lot of people get killed and blame it on the cops. >> up next, our factor special. america black & white continues.

critics say racism is to blame for the tension between african-americans and law enforcement. is that fair? ♪ abe! get in! punch it! let quicken loans help you save your money. with a mortgage that's engineered to amaze! if you're suffering from constipation or irregularity, powders may take days to work. for gentle overnight relief, try dulcolax laxative tablets. ducolax provides gentle overnight relief, unlike miralax that can take up to 3 days. dulcolax, for relief you can count on.

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can be a roller coaster white knuckle thrill ride. you're promised one speed. but do you consistently get it? you do with comcast business. and often even more. it's reliable. just like kung pao fish. thank you, ping. reliably fast internet starts at $89.95 a month. comcast business. built for business. in the impact segment, what is really causing so much of the tension between members of the african-american community and police? it's an interesting question. recently i debated the issue with russell simmons, co-founder of death jam records. >> i believe the strife between poor blacks and the police is driven by black crime. that's the nexus point. do you believe that? >> no. i believe that we can create a good relationship between police

and community with sensitivity training for the community and the police. i recommend it to the mayor today. a good person to help him with that. i think he's going to take that advice. i spoke to the attorney general, governor and mayor in the last 12 hours. all of them are in agreement and the governor i think is prepared to make an executive order to get special prosecutors in cases like these. >> i don't have a problem with that. >> right, of course. >> but let's start with the wider issue than the new york city issue. i said on the air i was disturbed by what happened in the staten island case. so did charles crowdhammer and judge napolitano. all americans should be disturbed. but the bigger issue that you're not acknowledging is that the astronomical crime rate among young black men drives suspicion and hostility on the part of the police who have to be con fronted with it. you won't acknowledge it, russell. you won't acknowledge it. >> let me say this to you. the broken glass laws and the

way that the police approach communities is a problem. the police are afraid of the community. if we want to start with the core or the crime that ensues in the black community or the fabric of the black community is in some ways disruptive, it has everything to do with your war on drugs. and 95% of the people who go to jail for nonviolent first time offenses are people of color. >> is selling heroin and crack on the street a violent crime? >> what i'm saying is -- >> that's an easy question. can you answer that question? >> 95% of the people who are incarcerated. >> am i invisible? are you not hearing me? are you not hearing me? >> i don't think selling drugs is a violent crime. >> no. so you and i have a final disagreement. i think selling hard drugs is

violent crime. >> i think oxy could theon is a hard drug. i think vicaden is a violent drug. >> in chicago, there is an epidemic of violence driven by drug gangs. i haven't seen through. >> i'm in chicago all the time. >> you weren't in the south side. >> i work with -- >> i work with the mayor and everyone. i'm in chicago. >> education? schools is a different thing. >> an anti-violence program in 30 cities including chicago that i fund. >> russell, you've not been there condemning the black drug gangs for gunning down 13 and 14-year-old kids. you haven't done it. >> you know what is interesting, bill? when you talk about the violence in the black community or 50 or 60, sometimes 70 kids who are shot in one week in chicago. >> by other blacks. >> it comes like this. talk about the missing white girl from brooklyn it goes on for months. every single weekend it is true, there is violence in the

communities. what we're doing about this is negligible. but what we can do and the reason for that violence in those communities comes from this whole jim crow system that is the prison industrial complex. we have not addressed the core, the root of the problem. >> if you don't think selling drugs -- you're never going to solve it. >> the root of the black crime problem -- >> drugs are not violent in and of themselves. >> i'll give you the last word. here's how -- where you're so desperately wrong. you're a good man. you are so desperately wrong it pains me to talk to you. >> i feel the same way you about, bill. i like you. >> the crime rate is driven by the disillusion of the family. no supervision. okay? kids with no fathers. the black neighborhoods are devastated by drug gangs who prey upon their own. that's the problem, not the industrial prison complex. last word. >> the violence in the black community is driven by those

innocent nonviolent drug offenders who are locked up, educated and criminal behavior and dumped back in the hood. >> you would let them walk down the street and sell heroin and i won't much that's the difference. russell simmons, stand up guy though. you are a stand up guy. i have to get a hat like. that i appreciate it. in a moment, our race relations in america worse than ever? a poll says yes. then we'll talk with pbs talk show taffe is smiley about the outrage after a grand jury chose not to indict a police officer whose take down led to the death of eric garner. right back with that. introducing the new philips norelco shaver series 9000 with contour detect technology that flexes in 8 directions for the perfect shave at any angle. go to philips.com/new to save up to $40. innovation and you. philips norelco.

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about linzess today. a new poll from cbs news says race relations between blacks and whites are at the lowest level since 1997. only 45% of folks say race relations are generally good. obviously the events in ferguson and new york city played a big part in the results. so we asked charles crowdhammer what he thinks about the situation. do you think this racial divide will ever be healed? >> probably not in our lifetime. but when you think about the span of, say, the last 50 years, the division between the races has been absolutely dramatically reduced to a point that would have been unimaginable 50 years ago. obama himself talked about this, how far we have come.

50 years ago there was legal segregation against black people. 50 years later we have a black president, a black attorney general, a black head of home land security, can you go through all of those. and just to talk about attitudes, forget about elected officials, you don't have to take a poll. look at advertising by celebrities. willie mays in his day was very rarely asked to do any promotion. because you couldn't do that with a black athlete. today, and this is not for reasons of ideology or racial sympathy but purely for the commercial reason that people want to make money by advertising. you see all kinds of african-american celebrities, sports figures. you've got actors who are promoted, who are actually being united statesed to promote products which tells you how much the attitude and the -- has changed in the country and half a century. this is unmatched. i would defy you to name one

country in the world where that attitude change has been so radical. i don't think will is one. >> now, the black underclass, the people who are poor and live in neighborhoods that are dangerous and people feel they don't have think chance, just the system is stacked against them, that is entrenched now. they feed them. it's not your fault. it's white privilege and all this is keeping you down. that's an industry in and of itself, is it not? >> no. there's no question that there's a class of racial agitators who live off this. and to some extent, we really have to krit sides people who know better who are their enablers, the ones who fund some

of the organizations like the, you know, like al sharpton, for example. the president of the united states should not be inviting into the white house, forget about all the other sin that's al sharpton committed and he's a tax cheat and all that, but you go back to the originals, the tijuana brouly case which was an out and out hoax of a black girl distressed black girl making a false deliberately false accusation of rape against a deputy i think it was a prosecutor in new york state. sharpton was behind that the whole way. in the end, he said sue me. and he was in fact sued by the guy, found to have defamed him and then never ended up actually paying the fine. so this was -- this was adjudicated in the court. and a man who does that, who stokes racial hatred deliberately should not be anywhere near the white house. >> why is he?

in your opinion? attorney general president obama knows the controversy surrounding mr. sharpton. and, yet, he doesn't seem to care. >> it doesn't start with president obama. go back to the election campaign of 2004 where al sharpton is one of the democratic candidates. do you remember the defrns with which all of the other democratic candidates treated him? this is a man who given his history and the brawly case and insightment riots in new york city never should have been given any of that deaf rens. >> plenty more ahead as "america black & white" continues. we'll hear from pbs talk show host tavis smiley following the outrage following the decision not to indict the officer accused in the death of a stat en, new york man. don't think the police officer ment to kill mr. garner. he meant to stop him from resisting arrest. >> there is no way, bill, can you look at that videotape and

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garner died after being put in a situation over the summer where a number of plifolice officers k him down. the decision set off a wave of protests around the country. we talk with radio talk show host tavis smiley on the day the grand jury decision was handed down. >> what we have here is, as you've already noted, an illegal choke hold caught on tape. the coroner says that this is a homicide. end of story. there is no way in my mind or anybody else's mind i believe that is looking at this for what it is. that we can justify a no indictment from this grand jury. it just doesn't add up. >> okay, let me play devil's advocate. the choke hold is not illegal. it's against department policy. it's not illegal. >> that is illegal. >> against the department policy is not a criminal offense. it's a disciplinary action. >> you're splitting hairs. >> no. let me explain. let me explain. the officer was docketed. he lost his shield.

he lost his gun. when you violate new york city department policy, that is what happens to you. you're not prosecuted. now, the prosecutor in staten island took it a step further because the medical examiner said it was a homicide. the man died in a violent confrontation. so the grand jury sits as many as 25, it's far more than ferguson. you got to get 12 grand jurors in new york state to say, yes, there should be an indictment. they said no. i'm with you that i saw what happened and it was very troubling. i don't think the police officer meant to kill mr. garner. i don't think he went in with that. he meant to stop him from resisting arrest. are you with me so far? do you agree so far? >> i disagree in the sense that the grand jury saw evidence. i don't know what they saw in addition to what we saw. but there is no way, bill, you

can look at that videotape and come back with a no indictment period. we can go all around the block here. it's caught on tape. the car once again says it's a homicide. how do you come back with no indictment? this grand jury system is becoming a fraud. they want to act like this is done under due process. they turn to the grand juries. they continue to turn back -- to send out the no indictments. and the value of black life in this country continues every day to have less and less respect. that's the bottom line. >> i want to hear from the grand jury. i want -- and the prosecutor over there at the da in staten island is trying to get the transcripts released. i think public has to see the rational behind it. the man resisted arrest and the police officer is trying to get

him under control and that the grand jury believes that they were not doing it if a malicious way. the intent wasn't the outcome. >> bill, does it really matter that he didn't intend to kill him? does it really matter -- >> it matters as far as charges are concerned. >> bill, what matters is that he violated the department policy. we saw it on tape. the coroner, i repeat for the third time said it's a homicide and nothing comes back. >> certain explanations have to be made. i think this would have happened to a white guy doing the same thing. i don't think it had to do with skin color. i think it had to do with poor judgements made by the group of police officers. >> but here's the problem. what you just offered now is speculation. >> it is. >> let me put on the table -- >> but the other way is speculation, too. >> no, it's not, bill. hold on. it's not. what you're offering is speculation. what i'm putting on the table for america to see, what america does see every day are the

facts. the facts are that trayvon martin was not speculation. michael brown was not speculation. mcbride is not speculation. shawn bail is not speculation. eric garner is not speculation. these are facts. black life is being -- there is no respect for humanity and dignity of black life in this country. >> let me ask you a couple questions, tavis. do you know how many blacks were killed by police by gunfire last year? in 2012? >> i do not know that number. >> the number is 100 and 123. do you know how many whites were killed? 326. there are 43 million plus black americans. 123 were killed by police gunfire. and the garner thing is most of those police deaths are gunfire not the other. so there is an epidemic of this. but when it happens it's extremely troubling. i could be wrong. >> bill, i think respectfully you are wrong. there is a pattern here.

>> the pattern is minuscule. >> bill. >> 123 as opposed to 143 million is minuscule. >> tell the parents of these precious young children. >> everyone values life. >> if it were your child, you would not call this minuscule, bill. that's disrespectful, my friend. >> it's not -- you're taking my remarks out of context. it's not minuscule that the man died. the amount of police shootings are minuscule and more whites three to one are killed than blacks. >> bill, do you not see in the era of the first black president, i might add, do you not, for those that thought we were going to live in a post racial america because he got elected which was nonsense then, do you not see a pattern here where black val life is devalued? >> i don't because the statististi statistics don't show there is a pattern. should americans approve of that

social commentary? america in black & white is back after this. will that be all, sir?

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you're promised one speed. but do you consistently get it? you do with comcast business. and often even more. it's reliable. just like kung pao fish. thank you, ping. reliably fast internet starts at $89.95 a month. comcast business. built for business. continuing now with our factor schedule. in the days following the ferguson grand jury's decision not to indict the police officer in the death of michael brown, five st. louis rams football players maid hid lines when they walked out on the field with their arms raised up, a nod to the hands up don't shoot movement. even though 15 out of the 20 eyewitnesses testifying before the missouri grand jury, apparently did not see michael brown with his hands up in the surrender position. some people still think it happened. while some said the players were within their right to make a social statement, others said it

didn't belong on the field. that's juan williams and ask what they thought. >> all right, juan, what about the nfl? it is appropriate? >> yeah, i think it was do you? appropriate? >> i think appropriate. only thing they didn't tell the coach and it's a team game. i think you should tell the coach. sports is such a large platform in american life. i think back to john carlos, tommy smith, some people wearing hoodies after trayvon martin. you know, the clippers coming out with their uniforms on backwards to protest donald sterling's racist comments. i think that's appropriate, nonviolent and certainly nonrioting. and i think pro-athletes should do more of it, i think. >> what do you think, mary kathrine. >> it didn't bother me the nfl has rules about political expression or free speech expression on the field they should punish fairly across the board and make that the rule. but in this case i thought it was nonviolent and fairly appropriate. and here's the thing, the folks who came to the nfl asking for

action was a police officer's group, which makes me a little squeamish when you're saying law enforcement can say i have an issue with this political speech so we can get rid of it. i think the answer is more speech not less. >> what if, juan, you're a police officer at the stadium and you're doing crowd control as they have in every stadium. and you go out and you see, you know, these guys come out of the tunnel with their arms raised, don't shoot. which conotes the fact that they believe, i guess, that white police officers shoot black youths all the time. we just debunked that with the statistics. we just showed more than 43 million african-americans are in the country and 123 were shot by police bullets in the latest statistics available. so that's not an epidemic. it's not crazy. it's not a hunting down of black youths. so you're a cop and you're doing your job and you see this. how would you feel? >> well, i think you went a bit too far in making the connection that they think that's all cops all the time.

clearly from your own statistics that's not true. and i'll tell you, i mean -- >> juan, you raise your hand in protest. >> yeah. >> with the don't shoot protest movement, the don't shoot protest movement says white cops are hunting down black youth to shoot them. >> can be a little less -- >> that's not what i say. i don't think that's what the protest is about. i think it's about the actions of officer wilson shooting an unarmed young man who was belij rant, possibly even criminal in terms of -- they took his life. so i think the protest is about that. not this thing about all cops all the time. i was going to say to you earlier that i'm a black man, and i got to tell you, police protect me. but i also know about stop and frisk, racial profiling, things that -- >> there's a cause and there's an effect. >> no. >> which again we pointed out. go ahead, mary kathrine. >> i have no doubt some police officers were offended which is why some spoke out as a group of

law enforcement association. but when you're offended, it doesn't necessarily mean that speech on the other side should be shut down. they're free to their feelings -- >> i asked -- >> if they're punished for it, that's the problem. >> paying customers coming to see a football game and you're raising your hand in sympathy with a group who believes that white police officers are hunting down black youths. that's what they believe. the stated belief, juan. it's a stated belief. >> those football players didn't state that. >> they're sympathizing with the group who has stated it. >> you think anybody who's upset over ferguson -- >> if they raised their hands in the don't shoot movement, yes, i do. >> directly ahead, did the mob violence following the ferguson's grand jury decision actually set back race relations in america? we'll talk with the attorney for michael brown's family about that. and, this special edition of "the factor" continues. save $45 on carhartt duck active jackets.

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black and white. the looters and arsonists who took to the streets of ferguson, missouri last month, destroyed any notion that the protests were peaceful. the protest tors who didn't loot, burn or assault the police, but remained in the fray, in my opinion, are guilty of aiding and abetting those who did loot and assault the police. because they provided them cover. we recently had a chance to talk with benjamin crump, the attorney for michael brown about the issue. if you are protesting, you, and you see somebody torch a store, set a store on fire, you don't stay there. you walk away from that protest. i know you'd walk away. >> and i'll say this, mr. o'reilly. i think everybody has a responsibility to try to uphold the law and tell the police to uphold the law as well as people who are protesting. you can't break the law and think that's right. just like in the bundy case in nevada.

a lot of people said him breaking the law, they called him a hero. >> and they were wrong. >> yeah. >> you yourself -- you yourself would not have stayed once the first match was tossed into the store or the first window broken. now, let me get onto -- >> i would not, mr. o'reilly. >> i know. that's the message i want to get out. >> okay. >> that's the way to stop this. the good protesters, they leave right away. >> the only thing i want to say, mr. o'reilly, is this here, the people are protesting peacefully when they see that stuff happening they see police around, we have a symbol of law enforcement in missouri, they expect police to handle that, but they still wanted to voice their concern -- >> they can voice it somewhere else at another time. but don't stay there enabling these people. now, i've gone out of my way to be fair and sympathetic to the brown family. i think you know that. i think you know i have.

i'm very disturbed by the stepfather, a man named louis who called for the burning of ferguson, missouri. i'm not going to play the sound bite again. everybody saw it. you said it was emotional. i think you're right. absolutely right. but that doesn't -- that's not an excuse. so now, now i'm looking at mr. head and maybe others around michael brown and saying what kind of an example is this teenager given? i don't know whether you know this, but louis head, his stepfather, is a convicted drug dealer twice. did you know that? >> i was not aware of that, no. >> yes. he's got two trafficking and narcotics convictions. and he served five years in the penitentiary in st. louis in missouri. i'm worried about this whole story that it's not getting out

what's happened here, counselor. >> okay. >> i don't think we know the family and the influences on mr. brown. and i'm worried about it. and i want to hear your side. >> well, mr. o'reilly, it's indefensible where mr. head said that night even though he was very emotional they just heard the decision that the killer of his unarmed stepson was not going to be face trial by jury. and he was emotional. but that's no excuse. they're asking people to do violent acts, irresponsible acts is indefensible. and i won't come and try to dignify that in any way. and that's a terrible message to send. but michael brown's mother and father have been very consistent, mr. o'reilly, in asking for peace and asking people to act responsibly in the face of overwhelming emotion. >> and that is it for this special edition of "the factor,"

america in black and white. thank you for watching us tonight. i'm bill o'reilly. as always please remember the spin stops right here cause we are looking out for you. breaking tonight, sony's ceo firing back after president obama criticized the company for their decision to pull the movie "the interview" after the company was hacked and threatened, apparently, by north korea. welcome to "the kelly file." i'm shannon breem in for megyn kelly. moments ago the ceo of sony entertainment weighing in after the president slams sony. he says the president got it wrong. >> in this incident the president, the press and the public are mistaken as to what actually happened. we do not own movie theaters. we cannot determine whether or not a movie will be played in movie theaters. so to sort o