set your dvr, tell your friends to do the same. friend me on facebook follow me on twitter on "judge jeanine. >> government or charity? >> charity. >> charity gave these students hope. >> i have become a role model for young guys>> are some charities gimmicks? >> you know about the als ice bucket challenge? >> what does als stand for? >> so what if tomorrsome beam d know? it still creates happiness.

>> and now john spos el. >> there are three-ways to help people who need help. government can try to do it give people money, start programs. charities do that, too. they are better at teaching people how to sell teach a man to fish. there's a third way the best way i will get to that later in the show. first let's debate the first two. when i was in college johnson declared an all out war for human poverty. i believe in them and then i watch his poverty programs create pore poverty. they spent trillions of dollars and people are still pour. people on the left say it was worth it. look at this chart. the poverty rate fell sharply after the war on would have vert began. that's great. but wait. he extends the chart back a faw

years for when it was first kept the poverty rate you notice that it was already falling just as fast. but then it stopped falling about 7 years after the war on poverty began. the history professor said because government encouraged poor americans to be dependent on government and stay pour. named after the president who helped begin the welfare state said no we need more government aid. more. he always wants more you guys. >> let's talk about the balance between charity and government. there's never been a period against private charity. we are the background of the poor house or bankruptcy laws. there's never been a purely private.

>> it was 799 percent private. >> the government is tiny. >> it was from social insurance. we shouldn't row mant size the past. am they mostly provided funeral benefits maybe if you were in a big city. >> saaabsolutely. we grew the country became the most prosperous country in the world. what destroyed that system was the great depression. the great depression hidden in exactly the worst way. when people couldn't work or couldn't find jobs they needed more charity and charity couldn't raise money. so you saw a whole system of volunteer societies they tried to balance people for economic life they wiped it out. >> if that's true the government has to accept it. >> i don't think it proves it at all. it proves you don't want to have governmental policies where you have ten years unemployment with

the intervention policy. i disagree with the characterization of the mutual aid organization that i had written about. i had looked at 65 paternal societies mutual aids groups that provide welfare. >> you have written is book about this? >> only five cease operations are during the great depression, that and at the end of the great depression they were devoting more money to social welfare than they were before the great depression. what hurt him was he had 10 years double dig get unemployment so people couldn't take dues. >> explain the mutual aid society? >> these were mutual insurance organizations. you pay membership dues like you pay for the american automobiling club or professional organization. they would provide six benefits health insurance some of them have hospitals some have

orphanag orphanages. >> they could make judgment. he needs help. but this guy, no, he needs to work hard. >> governments can't do that. governments just give money to everybody who qualifies. and hence that chart that shows the poverty rate went down but then it has gone up and down ever since. we taught people to depend on government and we made some passing. >> what is really important is because the government takes over the really big risks, the risk of poverty in old age and the business cycle. the system in the late 19th century now we live in a system where i can say it has gone up. that is great. but it duds mean that you need a deeper set of pockets in order to sustain people in the ability to transition from jobs and life cycle retire with the basic

decency and amount of money to get by. >> this seems all wrong to me. one bad system before the rise of the welfare state. there were faw ternenfraternal societies and private old age insurance. the individual retirement accounts that would ban the insurance. 9 million people have this. >> it would create social securi security. >> given the circumstances they face during the great depression created government policies and prolonged by government policies the roosevelt administration and hoover administration i think these organizations did well. >> you love social security but it is bankrupt. >> there is a small spending gap. propose cutting it a bit wants the republicans to cut it in half. decent social insurance allows it to drive.

when you take these difficult problems how we solve insurance then we can focus on more nimble much more targeted human things. theologians would say it is not really about money it's about brotherhood love. it requires a lot of money. >> there's so much more money now than there was during the great depression. there were the billionaires who had millions. >> if there wasn't this loaded welfare bureaucracy he wouthey accept in for that, too. they are really worried about cuts but they don't think private money is going to automatically flush in. >> you have eliminated a lot of social capital which has stillover effects. you have these rich social networks in the neighborhoods.

many no longer exist. it is where you have debts troyed a lot of job opportunities. it is the private sector that just leaped in? >> i think it would. people are resourceful. an example is after the civil war. it is free from slavery recently but they created two parent family systems. very vibrant despite the fact this they are incredibly low incomes not ideal by any means. i think people are more resourceful than we give them credit for i think we find that they created mutu aid organizations. at election time almost every pol significance says something like this. >> we have got to keep creating jobs then we have to make sure wages and benefits are such that families can rebuild a little

bit of security. >> we have a plan to lift people out of poverty. >> that last guy was from australia. it is the politician to say this is government just people believe that. >> this is the way politicians win votes and win elections. >> these things, the government can work together. i think we do a disservice to put them in strong estates and charitable sectors and strong opposition. they are more robust. >> the state grows? >> charitable giving is doing well. charitable giving can make a huge difference in building up individuals and building up communities. it is not having to worry about things like how do you provide sick days for people. it is difficult for stromall individuals to do in small groups. >> the government would require that. >> you see that it largely works. >> it largely doesn't work. but thank you for joining this

debate. tweet me at sbn stossel or use the hash tag real charity. or like my facebook page. now as we said big government crowded out a lot of charities in societies like the red cross they are still around. >> the charity this woman is raising money for the salvation army. it is a great charity. this woman clearly happy in her work. the salvation army runs after school programs, daycare centers food kitchens rehab and much more. >> james, i think you are more effective than government because people come to you you could make a judgment this person really needs help.

this person may be trying to freeload. you don't have to treat everyone the same. >> we don't treat everybody the same we have an opportunity when we meet someone to try to figure out who they are. they have the time to talk with them and we can begin to help them become a part of community. a lot of them have the help for people that goes beyond even our resources whether the neighbors are able to help nem or family member or someone who cares about them it makes a big difference. >> you will go with them and try to introduce them to neighbors that might help? >> you can do that. sometimes that is the case. sometimes we are in the homes of the folks we are working with sometimes it is with the salvation army it may be through a soup kitchen where it is not just folks who are hungry sometimes it is people who are looking for fellowship and looking for community and frankly relationships. they may be sitting next to someone who has the ability to help them. >> a wealthy person can come in

and ask for free food you won't turn them away? >> a lot of times with older adults older populations eernlly you wouldn't turn them away. we need people with usable to help those that are in need as well as long as the programs who are on both sides of the fence a lot of the solutions will come out of those relationships. the family gets evicted you don't take them down to the whale fair office to try to get them government housing? >> there will be times we help them access the resources in existence. we don't have enough resources to provide for every person that comes through our door. we will help them access the resources. there are other times when we are able to help them hopefully before they get evicted to help them catch up on the rent and at the same time sit down and figure out what got us here. >> you may pay a month's rent and try to help them get a job? >> absolutely.

you may pay a month's rent we may talk with the landlord and figure out is there a pattern here? is there something going on in life that is causing difficulty that we might be able to address? >> you are a christian group do you have to pray to get services? >> absolutely not. we want to make sure all of the services are available to everybody regardless of what someone believers or regardless of whether they agree with me in everything that i believe. at the end of the day we are called to be our neighbor's keeper to watch out for those struggling to watch out for themselves. >> thank you james. next time someone -- pays me to give a speech i will give you the money. i know you use it well. if you look at the salvation army almost all of it goes not just for paperwork but the people who need it. >> next the only charity that works better than government

did. >> i promise to make it the best. >> coming up the thing that worked better than both government and charity. introducing the new philips norelco shaver series 9000 with contour detect technology that flexes in 8 directions for the perfect shave at any angle. go to philips.com/new to save up to $40. innovation and you. philips norelco.

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>> i came a long way from being

in the streets being a destructive young man and i am becoming a positive role model to a lot of young guys in the school building. >> the school building is in a prison. the government used to offer pell grants to prisoners but most stopped because 20-years ago president clinton decided taxpayers shouldn't be forced to fund college for prisoners. a schcharity called husband lin stepped in to offer courses in some places. here is one of the professors. >> if you are walking into the classroom they are in place they have done their reading they are prepared and excited and interested and they want to discuss what they have read. as a teacher it is great. >> english professor joanne scelzon. what i am hearing you are also a college professor and the prison students are more into it. >> they are. i think they are more interested because they know this is the

oasis in a long stretch of being in prison. it will be four yearses they have to study. they love it. they read everything two or three times. >> it wasn't always this way. when government granted money for schools in prisz sons what was different? >> they went to class because it was something to do. the it was an entitlement it wasn't costing them anything. they took classes they thought would be interesting. it was a time to get together with friends. they did well and maybe they didn't. >> they didn't try. >> it was something to do. >> the current head of the share rit that hired her to teach was there because he killed someone. he took all of the classes at the time when the government ran the classes but he didn't work hard. he did when the charity went through. >> it is not forced on you, you are not encouraged take it. you have to fight to get in the waiting list is three years

long. each man has to pay $10 per s m semester. that's about 75 percent of their regular income. >> they have to work harder but they compete to get into the program. >> they do. first of all they have to be two years ticket free. that means two years without any disciplinary infraction if an institution where -- >> maximum security prison. >> maximum security, yes. >> they have to be two years ticket free and they have to have a job they get 7-18 cents an hour but 24they have to be employed in the facility. they have a 3 year waiting period. they give up their yard time which i think is significant in addition to paying $10 from their own money to tuition. they are giving up fun time. our men become accountable for what they are doing: they recognize someone is donating for them to go to school they take it seriously and appreciate it very much.

they are respectful. it is wonderful for them to know that somebody believers in them. somebody believes they can succeed and they do everything we can to measure up. >> mercy college holds their graduation ceremony. >> the education revived me and gave me a second chance at life. >> but they had mercy on them. i am grateful. i promise to make the best of this new life. >> thhe graduated a few months o and was accepted into grad school. the people we saw in the audience warren buffet. >> his sister dora who is our biggest donor. she believes in these men. she p wanted to do it for a couple years who were already

going to school when the pell grants were taken away. am we told her about it and she agreed to help them finish up. then she continued to donate to the program and she is our biggest supporter. >> when i hear about these programs i am skeptical because the recidivism rate is so high. we are going to retrain. but again and again they end up back in prison. >> the national recidivism rate is 68 percent, 68 percent are back after three years 47 percent after five years. our program 1.4 percent. we have 272 graduates have been released and only three have gone back in 15 years. >> 96 percent are gainfully employed. >> yes. 96 percent gainfully employed. >> that is great. your charity is a good one. later in the show an even better

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. >> grow a mustache for movember this year. >> and be sure to tell your friends this mustache is a movember mustache. john: last month, celebrities told men to grow mustaches to raise awareness for men's health. idea started in australia and caught on globally, it's supposed to get people to talk about prostate cancer and men's mental health. the website asks people to donate to movember, mustache-november, and the video campaign reached lots of people, not me, i've had this

thing for years, but lots of men tried mustaches in november, but how many donated money? most didn't. and that's why the founder of this social media website sumpto calls charity contributions like that slacktivism. >> it's where people replace a monetary donation with social post. for example, if you post something on facebook, you may value that at $10, if i tweet about something, value that subconsciously at $20, and subtract that amount to the reasonable donation to the charity. john: really? >> for the first time in our lives, social media profiles, facebook, instagram are a direct reflection who we are off-line, when people post something about charity, they think they're donating when sometimes they are

participating. john: i like this ad from unicef. "like" us on facebook, that's what you do, "like" it. "like" us on facebook, we'll vaccinate zero children. >> definitely. it was a head-on marketing effort, smart, and it was saying if you want to help, donate money, don't "like" us on facebook, follow us on twitter. "likes" aren't going to save a children, monetary contributions will. john: still this stupid movember mustache campaign did raise 22 million dollars. >> definitely, celebrities have done amazing markets effort and people get behind it because it's fun, and guys can relate to it. use an excuse to grow a mustache. however, it has almost diluted the message, and the message is saturated that people forget what it's all about, and why they're doing it. john: but they get the money. the most famous slacktivism

campaign is the ice bucket challenge. >> nominated by zack and eric, here we go. ah! ah! ah! >> once you have been challenged you are supposed to pour ice water over your head within 24-hours. if you don't douse yourself with ice water you donate $100 to the als. lots of stars did this. some donated money. thousands of celebrities donated, too. if you ask people what does als stand for? you didn't know. >> i didn't know. >> you got me now. >> als. i know ice bucket challenge but als maybe not. >> a lot of people didn't know. they raised money. >> over 100 million. >> compared to 20 times what they raised the previous year without the campaign. >> exactly. it was an amazing campaign for a

variety of factors. >> how can you criticize that? >> i am not criticizing it but awareness to a certain extent doesn't do much. you fill the glass the water is the awareness. am once it is overflowing they don't have much impact. the reason is what is more money going to the check out screen cricking donate no one pats you on the back no one says great job. instead i go on facebook i can tag my friends and get the social encouragement. that is more money. take a picture it didn't happen. by combining the two it is great. a lot of people pore get to donate a monetary contribution. >> before als the biggest example is probably the coney 2012 video. it is said to be the most viral video in ghitsing more than 100

million views in just under a week. >> they had an army what he does is he takes children from their parents and gives them a gun to shoot and he shoots and kills other people. >> he has this army but 100 million views what does this accomplish? >> it was a couple years ago. it was right when social media was real licks employing. they were connected with their fans their celebrities. you saw them tweeting about the video and fans were sharing it and retweeting it because they thought they were a part of something. we yes or no to peel a part of something bigger than ourselves. the really didn't contribute that much a lot of people didn't

understand it. >> it shows when people come together we can make some really great things happen as we have seen. >> but nothing great happened here. >> in this case. a lot of people learned from it saying look maybe posting something on-line i should become informed about it and maybe on top of that i can also donate. >> they have several hundred soldiers searching for koenig unsuccessfully so far. coming up the best way to help people. better than government better than charity, too. going pro. [ male announcer ] new crest tartar protection rinse. the only rinse that helps prevent tartar build-up and cavities. a little swishing. less scraping. yes! [ male announcer ] new crest pro-health tartar protection rinse. it helps you escape the scrape.

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need to lower your blood sugar? ask your doctor about farxiga and visit our website to learn how you may be able to get every month free. hello... i'm an idaho potato farmer and our big idaho potato truck is still missing. so my buddy here is going to help me find it. here we go. woo who, woah, woah, woah. it's out there somewhere spreading the word about america's favorite potatoes: heart healthy idaho potatoes and the american heart association's go red for women campaign. if you see it i hope you'll let us know. always look for the grown in idaho seal. >> our home, planet earth and humanity face something more incredible than anything the ancient mayans predicted nothing

can turn back time. life as we know it is ended. >> we are doomed. if there are no more fish. actually,>> our world is. >> getting better. poverty rates are climbing. crime rates are falling. fewer people are dying of cancer. across the globe people are living longer making more money and working less. conditions have vastly improved and continue to do so. >> that video is p on the west side human progress.org. he returns the site. human progress? is we are making progress? >> we are making progress across the board. they try to bring it together as many statistics on human well-being as possible. some are known to most people. long investity are increasing higher rates of education including afghanistan.

>> because of free markets. >> because of free markets. the market allows us to communicate with one another to exchange ideas and learn from one another. it is true. this interaction that we are able to produce evermore good and evermore sophisticated good for more people at a cheaper price. >> americans free market is ruthless competition. you grew up in czechoslovakia which envisioned as we the people the communists we are all in this together. >> as a kid i remember athe misery every where. but now thanks to a free mark approach that has taken place not to mention ind you and china are doing much better than the past. we have all of these charts

documenting this. perhaps these are the most expected live expectancy. look for years people died at age 30 only recently when she got private property and economic freedom, does the line go up to 65. through out the history of our species life ex security see was somewhere around 25 years. once in the revolution took people off the land, we were able to generate much more energy and of course feed many more people. the population of the united states has increased by 21,000 percent. because from 1600 in 2010. 98 percent declined in the number of people who work in agriculture. >> their lives are better. yet few americans get the free market to make life better. he looked at me like i was nuts when i asked him this.

what helps more charity or capitalism. >> charity. >> charity helps poor people. >> it may be the problem. it creates so many poor people. >> capitalism is the problem, why don't they get it? >> there are a number of reasons for that. the most obvious reason is education. when children are being taught from early age that capitalism is not only destructive but also immoral. they are more likely to support it. capitalism is a process and outcome it is a little bit -- >> invisible hand. >> it is very difficult for a mind to process it a hunter gatherer. >> i gathered the fruit. >> our minds evolved tens of

thousands of years ago when twe live in small groups of 50 and 200 people. some of the impulse is really just going back to that hunt and gathering mentality and not really comprehending the complexity of the market economy today. in a sense the complexity of the economy has out paced our ability to understand it. >> we can't see how we benefit from the action of strength. we benefit from the benevolence of strangers who are driven by moses and driven by supply and demand and de men's neckism. >> when people really get involved in the aid world and bother to study they start to understand markets are superior. here is the singer bono. >> rock star preaches capitalism. >> wow. >> sometimes i hear myself and i just can't believe it.

the commerce is real. >> took a long time to get it but i am grateful that he did. i am sorry i give money to a charity in sen pral park where he had a nasty bike accident. most people don't get them. >> it is very difficult. >> people change our minds. they said when people have the courage to do that. the original justification for foreign aid was to increase economic growth in america. that didn't happen. >> it was a distant reform. if you had free money coming from the west there is no reason why the government, why did african government should take the hard decision to de regulate the economy and then in exchange for that become accountable to that middle class in the private

sector. the government conferred to rely to the foreign aid and keep dick date tore ship and planned economy which produced nothing but misery. >> it is something the american shoe store is making free shoes to everybody in that neighborhood. >> next. >> whianother way capitalism he peop government for charity. it's just ordinary fleece

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. john: what helps people >> what helps people more sar chair rit or capitalism? >> i think the two to be connected. >> no government privileges they give wonders to people more than charity, certainly more than big government. the premise of obamacare that government must guarantee health insurance. health insurance isn't great. it disportorts markets. it raises prices. some medical clinics don't take health insurance. check one out in oklahoma. >> doctor keith smith marruns t surgery center of oklahoma a private surgery clinic that

posts prices on-line. >> you look at the menu and go okay. >> we don't get healthcare menu in other places. >> to know going in that everything is covered and parenthetically i didn't have to pay for $100 aspirin. isn't that cool? >> it would have cost five times that in the hospital. office people can find out when t -- can't find out what the hospital would charge. we would call they looked at us with a blank stair. one diver the phone someone gave us a quote of around 15,000 and the price for this surgery was a third of that. >> he needed his eye accept reattached after a canoeing accident. he moved to have the surgery here. >> it is cheaper for us to pick up and move and pay rent in oklahoma city for two months and pay for cabs and buses than it would have been to stay in new

hampshire and get surgery here. >> after researching prices for 40-hours he found one hospital that wanted 26,000. >> there wasn't enough facilities in the city or state that would call me back and give me a price. >> dr. smith charged less than 8,000 dollars for both. the hospital told linda removing other gallbladder would cost 22,000 dollars. >> it was the 5th of the cost. >> the founder joins us now. you must cut corners to be so much cheaper. >> i always like to hear that. the prices on the web site or what it costs the patient. that's one of the big lies is that healthcare is very expensive when it really doesn't cost that much. >> how can you do knee replacements for two knees for 7,000 dollars when the hospital is charging 50,000 bucks.

>> they have to come up with the price for all of these extra curricular activities somewhere. >>ed paperwork and they pay their people more. do you have a higher infection rate? >> we have almost nonexistent infection rate we have on-line. it indicates of lack. it indicates the presence of healthy competition. >> when you first opened you were surprised many of the first patients were not from oklahoma they were from canada. the first patients that showed up we have it on-line. they had health coverage but they didn't have care. coverage doesn't mean care. they found that out the hard way. >> p on the phone you told us when government gets involved those charged with delivering ca caroline their own pockets. what do you mean? >> when government gets involved to help the poor the poor very

sell come are the beneficiary of that government program. it is a big hospital where the folks are lining their pockets they own their money. our prices are less than what they say. they take care of the pour aor their healthcare. >> pef prices 5 other places nearly began posting prices. >> they form the national association over 200 members on the free market medical association. these are popping up all over the country bracing the wisdom of the free market applying that business model. >> thank you dr. smith. coming up where i give my charity money.

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. john: not everyone can be >> not everyone, the sick, the mentally ill, the truly helpless need to be taken care of. why do most people think the government must do it. why not private charity? government doesn't do things very well. i once thought there was too

much charity to make a difference. private charity would do much more if government didn't discourage it. today they are fewer mutual aid societies because people say why do it myself? why try when we have the big welfare burr rock sees. taxes are already paid for food stamps housing vouchers va, long-term. college, remedial education and so on. also government's poverty programs have so many rules. i do it myself but the department of paperwork may say i did something wrong. i will let the professionals handle it. this is a bad idea. the professionals in government did such a lousy job. since charity does it better i try to find charities that will use my money well. i give to this charity that provide dvd's with video to my free markets with middle school

and high school teachers. teachers play in class and use the principles behind them. a teacher's guide have lesson plans and worksheets. you might argue stossel that is self serving you are promoting yourself. you have a p point. i also give to other charities. how do i know they will teach people to fish and spend my money well. there is charity navigator guide star better business bureau. the ratings aren't always accurate. some charities aren't rated at all. their scores usually rely on data they get from the charities themselves. so i try to give my charity money to groups that i can check out myself. charities i can watch. that is why i give to the dough fund the group that does rehab work, kids aging out of foster care instead of giving -- giving

them handouts they take responsibility for their own lives. >> they don't allow you to give food stamps they want you to be independent. i first decided they did a good job ready, willing and able. they do jobs like cleaning city streets. that struck me is they seem to do it without the usual reluctance. they had a spring in their step. they work pretty fast. i thought whoever works with knees guys does something right. they taught them to take pride in work. i give the doe fund money. this is the season of giving. people who give say they feel happier. so give. also let's not forget the people who do the most for the poor are capitals honest ones, the majority who create things rather than feeding off

government. they do more for the charity than the politicians that promise public service. that's our show. see you next week. sony pulls the plug on the interview and the president says we cannot let foreign dictators sensor us just because we're offended. he's right about that but what about trying to make nice with cuba's dictator plus johns ratsonberger on how you can put american-made presents under your christmas tree. all of that and more tonight on huckabee. [ applause ]