police officer for killing a black man. i never heard from him again. set your dvr and your friends to do the same. follow me on twitter. see you next week. for watching night. john: what helps people more, government or charity? >> definitely charity. >> definitely. >> charity. >> charity. >> charity. >> charity gave these students hope. >> coming positive role models. john: are some charities gimmicks? >> grow a mustache for movember this year. [ screaming ] . john: you been the als ice bucket challenge? >> i do. john: what does als stand for? so what if some people don't know. charities still create happiness. ♪

. john: there are three ways to help people who need help, government can try to do it. give people money, start programs. charities do that too, and i'd say they're better at teaching people how to help themselves. there's the saying goes teach a man to fish. then there's a third way, i think it's the best way. i'll get to that later in the show. but first let's debate the first two. when i was in college, president lyndon johnson declared all-out war on human poverty. he said for the first time in our history, it's possible to conquer poverty. i believe him then but i watched his poverty programs create more poverty. governments spent trillions of dollars and people are still people are still poor. people on the left say money was still worth it. look at this chart. the poverty rate fell charply after the war began. that's great, but the extended

chart back two years when they were still kept at the poverty rate, they noticed it was already falling. just as fast. then it stopped falling about seven years after the war on poverty began. history professor said that's because government encouraged poor americans because they depended on government. the institute named after the president that helped begin the welfare state said they began more. trillions and that's the balance between charity. it has never been a situation where it's just private charity. the civil war pension and the background of a poor house and bankruptcy law. it never has been a private

space. it's 99% private. we had a voluntary tenthor that was able to provide insurance. you shouldn't ro mant size the path. maybe first aid and people were on it. we grew the country and became the most prosperous country in the world. the third world to first world. what destroyed that is the great depression. the great depression hits in the worst way. when people couldn't hurt or find jobs, they needed more charity and charity couldn't wave money at that time. they saw the system of volunteer societies that were trying to balance people against the risk of economic life. >> david, he said that. true, government had to step in. >> i don't think it proves it at all. in fact it so proves and you don't want governmental policies because ten years of double-digit unemployment,

hoover and roosevelt, they mentioned a cause. they disagree with the mutual aid organization. i looked at 65 and mutual aid with social welfare. only five peace operations during the great depression. at the end of the great depression, they had more money to social welfare than they were before the great depression. they had years of double-digit unemployment so people couldn't do it. you can't keep keeping them on mutual aid. >> they were mutual insurance organizations. you get the american automobile club or professional organizations. they would provide sick benefits and some of them have hospitals and some of them have orphanages and homes for the elderly.

>> they definitely thought they could make judgments. this guy, he needs to just work harder. governments can't do this. they get money to everybody who qualifies. and hence that chart that shows the poverty rate went down. we have people to depend on government and we made them. >> it's really important. because the government takes over and the poverty and old age. the new economics, the system in the late 19th century. industry can disappear. din michelle and growth, but you need a deeper set of pockets to sustain people's ability to transition through jobs and the life cycle. and the basic decency and amount

of money to get by. >> it seems all wrong to me. not one bad system. fraternal societies and other kinds of institutions of self-help. there was private old age insurance. into the early form of the individual retirement accounts that was banned during the progressive years. nine million people had it. >> it was competition. >> otherwise they wouldn't have created social security. given the circumstances they faced during the great depression created by government policies and prolonged by government policies and the roosevelt and hoover administration, these organizations did well. >> you loved social security, but it's bankrupt. >> the small gap pop proposed cutting it a bit when republicans cut it in half. the social insurance allows private charity to thrive. when you take it in real

difficult problems with how they solve poverty and insurance against the business cycle, charity can focus on much more nimble and targeted and hume knowistic things. >> as they would say, charity is not about money, it's about action and brotherhood and love. you can't substitute that. that requires a lot of money. it requires so much more money than during the great depression. there billionaires who have billions that they are looking to do something with. >> they want their name out. >> for there was not this bureaucracy, they step in and nax too. >> if you talk to food banks in new york, they are really worried about cuts to food stamps and private money and automatically flushes in. that's the capital that has spill over effects and rich social networks in the neighborhoods and many of the

networks no longer exist because of the rise of the welfare and regulatory state. you would survive if there was not all the government. they would leap in. i think it would. people are resourceful. examples after the civil war. free from slavery recently. they created the two-parent family systems and had a network of mutual aid organizations they created. very vibrant despite the fact that they are incredibly low incomes, not ideal by any means, but people are more resourceful than we give them credit for and we find that among the immigrant crews that created mutual aid organization. >> i certainly agree, but if you listen to the media, at election time, most any politician said something like this. >> you have to keep creating jobs and make sure that the wages and benefits are such that

23578lys can rebuild a little bit of security. >> we have claims. >> the last guy from was australia. the instinct of the politician that this is government steps and people believe that. this is the way politicians win votes and elections. >> these can exist and work together. we do a disservice to put them in the state and charitable factors and good opposition. building a more robust and economically secure place. >> charitable giving laz and it is targeted on giving and can make a huge difference in building up individuals and community. it's not having to worry about things like how you provide sick days for people which is a very difficult thing for small individuals to do and small governments to require that. >> i think you look around the world and government is providing it and it largely works. elderly poverty. >> thank you, mike who joins us

today. tweet me. or like my facebook page so you can post on my wall. we want to know what you think. as we said, big government crowded out a charities and mutual aid societies. many are still around. one of the biggest and most affected is -- the charity this woman is raising money for. the salvation army. it's a great charity. this woman clearly happy in her work. the salvation army runs after school programs and daycare programs and food kitchens, weekend programs and much more. the general secretary, i think you are more effective than government. you it make a judgment that this person needs help.

this person maybe is just trying to free load. you don't have to treat everyone the same. >> we don't. we are excited to have an opportunity to meet someone to try to figure out who they are. what their needs are. hopefully as a result of meeting them and having time to talk with them, they can begin to help them become part of the community. i lot of the help for people that goes beyond our resources is when their neighbor or family member is able to help them. it makes a big difference. >> you will go with them and introduce them to neighbors who might help. >> it can be that and sometimes that is the case. we are in the homes of the folks that we are looking with. it happens at the salvation army and not just folk who is are hungry, but it's people who are looking for fellowship and looking for communities. >> a wealthy person can come in

and ask. >> they come during the hot meals program and a lot of times it's the senior population and you live alone or looking for fellowship and we wouldn't turn them away. we need not only the people in need, but people to be with us that are able to help those that are in need. they involve both sides of the fence. we believe a lot of those come out of the relationships. if a family gets evicted, you don't take them to the welfare office and get them housing. >> there will be times that they are in existence. you don't have enough resources to provide for every person that comes to the door. we will help them to access the resources. other times when we are able to help them catch up on the rent or make a payment or sit down with them and figure out what got us here. you make them pay a month's rent and try to help them get a job. >> absolutely.

>> we may pay a month's rent and talk with the landlord and figure out is there a pattern here and is there something going on in that is causing difficulty that we might be able to address. >> you are a christian group to volunteer or get services. you have to pray. >> absolutely not. >> we want to make sure the services are available without tomorrow determination. regardless of whether they agree with me and everything i believe, at the end of the day, we are called to be the neighbor's keeper and watch out for those who are struggling to watch out for themselves. >> thank you, james. next time someone pays me to give a speech, i will give you guys the money. i know you use it well. i researched these charities and if you look at the salvation army, almost all the money goes on not for paperwork, but the people who need it. another charity that works better than government did. >> i'm grateful.

i promise to make the best of it. >> coming up, that thing that works better than both governments. ty. it's just ordinary fleece but the comfort it provides is immeasurable. the america red cross brings hope and help to people in need every 8 minutes, every day. so this season give something that means something.

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. >> i came a long way from >> from the streets, being a destructive young man and i become a positive role model for a lot of the school buildings. >> that is in a prison. the government used to offer coverage and prisoners, but most stopped because 20 years ago president clinton should be forced to find as college. so a charity called hudson lake offered them from someplace. here's one of the professors. >> what's great is you walk into the classroom and they are all in place. they are prepared and they are excited and they read as a teacher, it's great. >> that's english professor jolene who teaches and now i'm hearing that and also a college professor and they are more into it. >> they are. they are more interested because

they know that this is a long stretch of being in prison and they know there four or five years that they have to study. they love it. they get everything out of it that they can. they read everything two or three times. >> it wasn't always this way. when government granted money for schools in prison. what was different? they went to class because it was something to do. it wasn't costing them anything. they took classes they thought would be interesting and it was time to get with their friends and maybe they did well and maybe they didn't. >> they didn't try. >> it was something to do. >> the current charity that hired her to teach was a prisoner themselves. he killed someone. he took college classes in prison at a time when the government ran the classes. he didn't work hard. he did when the charity took over. >> you have to want to. you are not forced. you have to fight to get in with

a waiting list that is three years long. each man pays $10 per semester. that doesn't sound like much, but when it's 75 cents an hour, that's 75% of their income. >> they compete to get in the program. >> they do. they have to do two years ticket-free without any disciplinary infractions in an institution. >> the maximum security prisons. >> yeah. they have to be two-years ticket-free and have a job. they get 17 to 18 cents an hour and employed within the facility. we have a three-year waiting president and they give up yard time which i think is significant in addition paying $10 a semester per tuition. our men are accountable because of what they are doing. somebody is donating in order for them to go to school. they appreciate it very much.

they are respectful and it's wonderful for them to know that somebody believes in them. somebody believes they can succeed and they do everything they can to measure up. >> the same thing and mercy college pulled their graduation ceremony at the prison. a familiar case in the audience here. >> you would like to get a second chance at life. have mercy on them. i am forever grateful. i promise to make the best of this life. >> he graduated out of prison and was accepted into grad school. the people we saw in the audience, warren buffett and -- >> his sister is our biggest donor. she started out to do it to help those who were already going to school when the pell grants were

taken away and one of the professors was a friend and told her about it and she agreed to help them finish up and was going to the men that she continued to donate to the program and she is our biggest supporter. >> what i want to hear about these programs, i'm skeptical because the rate is so high. this is going to help. we are going to retrain them. but again and again they end up back in prison. not graduates. >> no. the national recidivism rate is 68% up to three years. they are back in prison after three years. 77% after five years. our program is 1.4%. we have 272 graduates who have been released and only three have gone back in 15 years. >> 96% are gainfully employed. >> yes, 96%. >> that is great. the chairit is a good one. later in the show, an even

better thing. next, what's the right way to raise money for charity? would do you this? if you did, my next guest said you probably didn't help anyone.

grow a mustache and your friend this is mustache is a november mustache. >> last month they called men to grow a mustache to raise awareness. it started in australia and caught on globally to get people to talk about prostate cancer and i asked people to donate to movember. the video campaign reached lots of people.

i had this thing for year, but lots of men tried mustaches in november, but how many donated money? most didn't. that's why the founder of this social media website calls charity kopt bugs like that slack-tivism. it's better that people give money. >> that's what people will replace a monetary donation with for example, if you post something on facebook, you value that at $10. if i tweet about something, it might be $20. we will subtract that from the potential donation from the charity. the reason for this is for the first time in our lives, our social media profiles is a direct reflection of who we are off line. if someone posts something, they think they are donating when they are usually participating. >> the charities are picking up

and from unicef, like us on face skbook you like us on facebook and we will vaccinate zero children. >> exactly. it's head on marketing and they say you want to help donate money. don't like us on facebook or follow us on twitter. likes are not going to save the children. your monetary contributions will. >> the stupid mustache campaign did raise $22 million. >> definitely. celebrities have done an amazing marketing effort and people get behind it because it's fun. however they have a diluted message that has become saturated. people tent to forget why they are actually doing it. >> robbery. >> but they get the money.

the ice bucket challenge. >> once you have been challenged po pore ice water over your head within 24 hours. if you don't, you donate $100 to the als. some did this and some did donate money. thousands of non-celebrities did this too and if you ask people -- >> what is als? >> i don't know for sure. >> als, i did the ice bucket challenge, but als, maybe not. >> a lot of people didn't know, but they raised money. >> over 100 million. >> 20 times what they raised without them. >> exactly. it was an amazing campaign for a

variety of factors. >> how can you get that? >> i'm not criticizing that. awareness to a certain extent doesn't do much. you fill the water and the water is awareness. it doesn't have that much impact. the reason is that what's more fun? going on a check out screen of a website and clicking donate, nobody pats you on the back and said great job. i can create a video and tag my friends and make it social and get the social encouragement. that's more fun. >> self promotion. instagram. take a picture, it didn't happen. that is where we are as a society. that was a lot of people that actually donate. >> before the als campaign, that was probably the 2o 12 video. it is said to be the most viral video in history. getting more than 100 million

views in just under a week. >> we had an army about what he does is he takes children from their parents and he gives them a gun to shoot and makes them shoot and kill other people. >> kony does this and 100 million views. what does this accomplish? >> it was difficult. it was a couple of years ago. it was right when social media was really exploding. it was a great way for people to be connected with their fans. they are celebrities. you saw these amazing celebrities and the fans were retweeting it because they felt like they were part of something. we yearn to feel part of something bigger than ourselves. really didn't contribute that much. it was difficult and a lot of people didn't fully understand

it. when found, unfortunately it does show when people come together, we can make great things happen. they have been seen in previous charitable actions. a lot of people have learned maybe instead of posting something, i should become inform and on top of that donate. >> several hundred soldiers searching central african republic unsuccessfully. thank you. coming up, the best way to help people. better than government, better than charity. ♪ ah, push it. ♪ ♪ push it. ♪ p...push it real good! ♪ ♪ ow! ♪ oooh baby baby...baby baby. if you're salt-n-pepa, you tell people to push it. ♪ push it real good.

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. >> our home, planet earth, and humanity, face something more incredible than anything the

ancient mayans predicted. nothing can turn back the time. life as we know will end. >> continuing with a fish, if there no more fish. >> getting better. poverty rates are down and fewer people are dying of cancer. across the globe, people are making more money and working less. continues have vastly improved. >> that are video is on the website's human progress. human progress? we are making progress? people don't think that. >> we are making progress across the board. they try to bring together as many statistics on human well being as possible. some of them are known to most people. in places like afghanistan.

>> because of the fre markets? >> the market allows us to communicate and to exchange inside and it's through this interaction that we're able to produce more goods and ever more sophisticated goods for more people at a cheaper price. >> and americans know that free market is ruthless competition. you grew up in czechoslovakia which was envisioned as we the people. the communists were in this together. >> it's like a different system. i remember the misery and a lack of political freedom. now thanks to the free market of homes that have taken place in central and eastern europe, it's much better than the past. >> you have progress and that

has charts documenting this. this is the most impressive life expectancy. >> it measures things better than that. look for years people died at age 30. only recently once you got private property and economic freedom does the line go up to 65. >> the private investors, throughout the system of our species, it's something about 25 years. once the revolution took people off the land, we were able to generate much more energy and of course feed many more people. the population of the united states increased by 21,000% between 1600 and 2010. yet 98% decline in the number of people who work in other cultures. >> their lives are better yet few americans get the free market to make life better. you looked at me like this.

help people who are charity? >> charity. >> it help it is rich people and charity helps poor people. >> they create poor people. >> i can't believe it's the problem. capitali capitalism? why don't they get it? >> education. when childrening being caught that capitalism is not only destructive, but immoral, they are less likely to support it. capitalism is a process and an out come of trillions of decisions made by billions of people that caming to in a spontaneous kind of way. it is a little. >> invisible hands. >> it's very difficult for a mind to process it. >> the hunter gatherer can see i shot this animal and i gathered this fruit. >>or minds evolved tens of

thousands of years ago. when we lived in small groups between 50 and 200 people. some of that is really just going back to that hunter gathering mentality. and not really comp henting the complexity of the market economy and the complexity had outcased our ability to understand it. >> you can't see how we benefit from the actions. >> it is a little abstract. we benefit from the benevolence of strangers. they are driven by supply ask demand and by the mechanisms. >> when people get involved in the world and bothered to study the data, some of them start to understand that markets are superior. the charity is the singer bono. >> wow. >> sometimes i hear myself and

can't believe it. the commerce is real. commerce, entrepreneurial capitalism takes more people out of poverty than anything. >> for took a long time to get it, but i'm grateful he did. i give money to a charity in central park. i hope he recovers. but most people don't get this. >> it's better to see people change their minds and people had the courage to do that. the original justification for foreign aid is they put the increase of growth in africa. that didn't happen. >> we spent trillions and it hurt economic growth. >> it was a disincentive and if you have free money coming from the west and why african government should make the decision to deregulate the economy and in exchange be accountable to the middle class.

many african governments preferred to rely on foreign aid and keep hypocrisy and dictatorship and centrally planned economies that presented nothing but misery. >> individuals are less likely to make shoes if a big american shoe store is giving free shoes to everyone in the neighborhood. >> another white capitalism helps people more than government or charity. an govern an govern char

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i was thinking about htaking this speed test from comcast business. oh yeah? if they can't give us faster internet or save us money, they'll give us 150 bucks. sounds like a win win. guys! faster internet? i have never been on the internet and i am doing pretty well. does he even work here? don't listen to the naysayer.

take the comcast business speed test. get faster speeds or more savings, or we'll give you $150. comcast business. built for business. . john: what helps >> what helps people more? charity or capitalism in. >> i think you can be connected. >> where there is a real free market and no privileges. often more than charity. certainly more than big government. government must guarantee health insurance, but health insurance is not great. it distorts markets and raises prices. fortunately some medical clinics don't take health insurance. i sent them to check out in oklahoma. >> dr. keith smith that posts

prices online. >> in the waiting room you say okay. >> wu don't get a health care menu in other places. >> to know going in that everything is covered. i didn't have to pay for a $100 aspirin. >> he had shoulder surgery that cost $6,000. it would have cost five times that at the hospital. they can't find out what the hospital would charge. >> we couldn't get a price quote. they looked at us with a blank stare and no one would give us a price. they gave us a quote and the price for this surgery was a third of that. >> they needed a tenld on attached after a canoeing accident. >> it was cheaper for us to pick up and move and pay rent here for two months and pay for cabs and bus than to stay in new hampshire and get surgery there.

>> he needed a knee replacement. he found one report that wanted a $26,000 deposit. >> there was not a facility that would get back to us. >> a hospital told linda combs removing her gall bladder cost $22,000. >> this was a fifth of the cost. >> the founder of that clinic joining us now. you must cut corners to be so much cheaper. >> now i like to hear that because the prices you see are what it costs to take care of patients. that's one of the big dies that we have been told and many believe. health care is expensive when it doesn't cost that much. >> how can you do knee replacements for two knees for $7,000 and the hospital charges

$50,000. >> they have to come up with money for extra curricular activities somewhere. >> and the paperwork and massaging the government. >> you have a higher infection rate? >> high prices indicate a lack of competition. low prices think they indicate the presence of healthy competition. >> when you first opened, you were surprised that many of the patients were not from oklahoma. they were from canada. >> the first people who showed up, the first patients online were canadian. it doesn't mean care. they found that out the hard way. when government gets involved, those charged with delivering caroline their own pockets. what do you mean? >> when government gets involved to help the poor, the poor very

seldom are beneficiaries of government programs. it's usually a big respect where the folks line their pockets. our prices that we list online are less than what medicaid pays the big hospitals. there is a lot of money to be made from the government programs that take care of the poor and their health care. >> five other places near you began posting prices. >> there so many now, we formed the national association. there is over 200 members called the free market medical association. these facilities are popping up all over the country and embracing the wisdom of the free market and applying that discipline to their own practice model. >> thank you, doctor smith. coming up, where i give my charity.

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. john: not everyone can be not everyone can be taught to fish. the sick, the mentally ill and truly helpless need to be taken care of. why do most people assume government must do that. why not private charities. government doesn't do things very well. i thought this was too much poverty to make a difference.

they realize there is plenty of money and they would do much more if government didn't discourage it. today there fewer mutual aid societies because people say why do it myself when we have these big welfare bureaucracies. my taxes pay for obamacare, food stamps and housing vouchers and mental hospitals and loans for college and education and so on. also government poverty programs have so many rules. if doi it myself, the department of paperwork may say i did something wrong. i will let the professionals handle it. this is a bad idea because the professionals in government do such a clouzy job. charity usually does it better. i will find charity if i use my money well and i will give to this charity that gives dvds

about markets to middle skoolt and high school. teachers play it in class and debate the economic principals. the teacher's guide who suggested lessons and worksheets. you might argue that that is self serving. you have a point. i also give to other charities. how do i know that they will teach people to fish and spend my money well? there charity rating services like navigator and guide star. but the ratings are not always accurate. some are not rated at all. the rating services can get coned like the west of us. their scores rely on data they get from the charities themselves. i try to give my charity money to groups that i can check out myself. charities i can watch. i give to the doe fund that does rehab groups with kids aging out of foster care instead of giving them handouts that. i retrain to

take responsibility for their own life. >> they're don't allow you to get food stamps. they want you to be independent. >> i could see these men. they call the men in blue. ready, willing and able. they did jobs like cleaning city streets. they seem to do it without the usual reluctance. that i had a spring in their step and they worked fast. whoever works with these guys did something right. they thought them to take pride in work. i give the dough fund money. a couple of other groups that i can watch. this is the season for giving. don't forget charity doesn't just help others, but people who give said they feel happier. so give. but also let's not forget the people who do the most for the poor are capitalists. honest ones. the majority who create things

rather than feeding off government. they do more good for the world and much more than the politicians who promise public service. that's our show. see you next week. news when mo news is always on the way. i'm chris wallace. a gunman kills two new york city policemen. he says to avenge the deaths of eric garner and michael brown. and u.s. officials are calling the cyber attack on hollywood one of the gravest national security dangers we face. >> we cannot have a society in which some dictator some place can start imposing censorship here in the united states. >> how will the u.s. respond to the hacking attack on sony pictures? and how vulnerable is the u.s. to cyber warfare from north korea and other countries? we'll ask the chair of the house intelligence committee mike rogers who