companies survive and prosper. exxon, 58% in 2015. >> had a tough year. you think it's still going to do well? >> all need it to run our cars. and david asman on the place for business fox. a new year ringing in with new fine penalties and new mandates from the health care law, and the promise to lower insurance costs broken. the average family seeing their premiuming jump more than 25% the last five years. how about deductibles? they are up a whopping 53%. so with new health care laws, surprises kicking in will 2015 finally be the year americans rise up against it? hi, everybody. i'm david asman. happy new year. welcome to "forbes on fox." steve forbes and the others

with us. steve, is this going to be the year momentum to overturn this thing reached a crescendo? >> yes, it will david. the year where the proverbial stuff hits the fan. you mentioned employer mandate kicks in even though it's over 100 employees. 50 to 99. those companies have to do a lot of paperwork. owners find out even if two small businesses the internal revenue service will add up the employees and hit them as well. confusion about what you can and can't duct. the cadillac tax even though it doesn't kick in for another two years. >> penalties tripling. >> companies will be raising deductibles and co-pays on that. so you're paying more getting less and that 25% rise in insurance premiums the worst thing, though, is the co-pays and deductibles, where people are getting hit and they don't know what coverage they really have. >> rick i know you've seen these depressing -- from your point of view. look at the disapproval rate of obamacare. 59% disapprove. do you think that's going to change in the new year?

>> i don't know that will change in the new year, david, you told the story in the intro. you told it beautifully. 25% increase over five years. that averages out to 5 percent parse year. does anybody remember what the increases used to be before obamacare? >> one word for you, rick. >> wait, wait. >> one word for you. ductables. it's the whole cost deductibles up over 50%. >> i'll get to that next. let me finish this. it used to be you got an 8% to 10% rides you had a good year. you were thrilled. some people would see 20% a year. that is actually very good news. deductibles, yes. they, too, always went up. >> not at this rate. >> interesting about it the very people who say we want more control over our health dollars, they should be thrilled that they get a higher deductible and can decide where they -- >> should be thrilled but they're not thrilled. mike, the point is all of this has to be taken in context of what the president promised we would get. from obamacare. in 2010, he made a promise about

his proposal. let's listen. >> my proposal would bring down the cost of health care for millions. families, businesses and the federal government. >> but, mike what we found out was what they were really talking about behind the scenes thanks to jonathan gruber let's listen to what he said. >> even if we knew how to control health costs, we couldn't do it politically. you're president obama. do a spaghetti approach. throw a bunch of stuff against the wall and see what sticks. >> at least the guy was being honest about it, of course everybody disavowed it but, in fact, isn't that what obamacare turned out to be? >> yes. president obama proven to be a serial liar. that's what he is. keep your doctor and so forth? he was lying. the biggest problem i have with this besides what you correctly point out of the huge cost increases is my control of health care. health care is very personal. if i want to see the doctor, i want to see the doctor i want to see, get the type of coverage i want to get that i think it best

for me family. i don't want it being dictated by president obama and guys like gruber. i mean that i think is really going to cause the mood to eastern swing further against obamacare. >> that's why the polls are so much against it. john, another point. so much of obamacare is subsidies. pure subsidies. people are paying for it. 87% of the people who got the plans are getting financial achb surface. it's easy to get everybody enrolled in this thing if you're willing to pay a lot more. 87% of the people now getting obamacare are on subsidies. >> that's why health care costs are skyrocketing. what we're describing has nothing to do with insurance. insurance is what you purchase to protect yourself against the unfoe seeable. the rarest of the rare. when you buy that it's very inexpensive. what we're describing here is insurance against routine doctors visit or if you don't like what your eyelids look like, that's going to be very

expensive and why costs are skyrocketing. >> sabrina. republicans now have control of the senate and house and will be tried. obviously not get it overturned because the president wouldn't sign that, but they're going to try to tweak it and they're going to try to use this part-time rule. they're going to focus on making a workweek 40 hours which apparently would do a lot to kind of change some of the rules of obamacare. right? >> right. this is that effort by certain republicans to sort of repeal parts of the law. right? because they think it's easier than trying to turn over the whole thing. the problem is in the interim, until we try to get rid of this, it's going to have a damaging input on the economy. saying this will add over $6 trillion to our deficit. we know we have 20 new tax hikes poised to cost another trillion dollars. the subsidies are going to cost another, yet another trillion dollars over the next ten years. we know medicare is going to be cut by close to a trillion dollars, about $700 billion. so the impact on the economy

while our lawmakers try to sort this out is really going to be damping. >> well it is -- 1/6's our economy. we have to remind folks of that. can't do it without it affecting things dramatically. carrie, a personal experience you brought to us a couple weeks ago. what's happening with your personal experience with obamacare? changed, improved? >> horrible. i did not get to keep my doctor, period, when i shifted on to the plan. my doctor did not accept it. my premium hiked up bein 18.4%. rick is doing amazing gymnastics. see a chiropractor this year? >> what did i say that's not true? i used the figure -- >> talking double digits, not to mentio versus the future. future, a disaster. the natural progression of obamacare is single parent. what liberals want. what obama wants. a disaster for deficits's the new congress were hopefully shrink the deficit in the future. >> also constitutional questions

about it and the supreme court deal wig a big one coming up in 2015. could the supreme court pull the rug out from under it? >> certainly can do it will make a decision the slaw actually what is written in the law and congress, i mean, the internal revenue service cannot subsidize those ex-changes in 37 states. will obama renegotiate obamacare or say we'll bull our way forward? the congressional budget office points out in the years ahead the growth of our economy will be about two-thirds what it was historically courting us trillions of future wealth and job creation and the big et villain is obamacare. >> rick i want to ask you, play out the scenario. what happens as the supreme court goes against the president on this one? will he tough it out and try to do the executive order stuff? or will he try to negotiate in the some way in 2015 if he loses in the supreme?

>> if the supreme court -- one correction. i don't think it's a constitutional issue. it's an interpretation of the law. >> the supreme court deals with constitution. go ahead, i lap to think you're right -- not always. a lot of things the supreme court deals with. the federal question -- >> go ahead. answer the question. >> i agree. a good chance it may. not that there's negotiation. the law would simply go away. >> mike does all this mat whir it comes to people? you pointed out it's the individual that finds out -- the money plays a big part in the reason they don't like it, most of all, they're not able to control their own health care. >> absolutely. david, reforms put forward by many republicans, by the way, actually will move towards eliminating private practiceses. one of the things they're pooling doctors into huge hospital groups so you're ability to see an individual doctor at his or her practice that's going away very soon. >> it's going to be quite a year. no doubt. thank you, gang.

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live from america's news headquarters i'm kelly wright. new questions in the search for wreckage of flight 8501. sewna detected four large orbits from the bottom of the java sea. the head of indonesia's saerchd rescue agency says the largest piece is 59 feet long and 18 feet wide. it appears to be a part of the plane's fuselage. the airasia plain crashed last sunday with 162 people onboard. so far, only 30 bodies have been recovered. and the heartbreak continues in new york city. in a few hours mourners gather in brooklyn for the wake of police officer wingen liu.

killed execution-style two weeks ago sitting inside their patrol car. officer ramos laid to rest last sunday, officer lui's is headed by monks. and cut taxes on job creators to unleash a jobs boom. one of the gop's first act, should be when it takes control of congress next week. some here say forget lowering our high effort in the world rate. just abolish it altogether. john, abolish it? >> yeah of course you abolish the corporate tax. corporations are ultimately a fiction. they're individuals. we already tax individuals on their income and impose a corporate tax, we are double taxing the earnings of individuals. it's anti-growth, anti-corporate formation and with that anti-job creation. >> steve, sounds good to me.

doesn't it? >> oh it's great. then in a fantasy world but politically, a non-starter. the idea you'll have a business and not help individuals. john's right. it would ultimately help them rye right away. the way to the matter flat tax. you can't get expensing of capital xpentd cher, taxing of overseas profits slashes rate and slash the personal rate. to think you'll reform the corporate tax code without reforming the personal tax code, forget about it. >> but sabrina look what's happened. we have the high nested world for korgss and used to be one. best. we should be a model nos a laggard? >> of course. not only we have 35% corporate tax rate also tremendous abuse of loopholes. sort of breeds this kind of crony capitalism. it makes, sort of throws things out of whack again. i'm with john in think idea to stop thinking of corporations as

these anonymous sources. burger king or google what it really is is employees. it's shareholders. customers that are feeling the burden. i think that i'm with steve as well. that we want to try to elimon-aid this but make it part of a larger tax reform effort. >> rick, this segment, after all, your idea. you're for complete abolition of the tax code. right? i'm kidding! >> i'm against you all. here's what we have to get to. we immediate to have an honest conversation. yes, we should not have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. >> we have nothing but honest conversations here. >> no no. i don't mean us. i mean the congress public, et cetera. here's the problem. we have to take our effective tax rate. we know some big corporations -- by the way john a republican candidate said corporations are people, too, and we forget all the deductions corporations get. we need to figure out what are they really paying? we should not be the highest corporate tax in the world, but we have to make it fair so that a small company who's paying

full boat is the same as a large company that's paying nothing. >> mike i want to shock rick. i agree with him. the actual rate of taxation for corporations is much less than 35% because all the big guys have an army of lawyers and lobbyists to get their special deals in washington. it just shows how this current rate distorts the tax code so much. >> absolutely. >> that it benefits the big guys and the little and small guys are the ones paying the full rate. >> rick and you are absolutely right, david. the only industry that really benefits from the corporate tax are the accountants. they really benefit. the guy whose make the numbers work. but what this tax is, and let me try to go with rick and start this honest debate, it's a pass-through tax that impacts the cost of the goods that the corporation provides, impacts the wages it pays. that's really what the corporate tax impacts. >> lemt me go back to rick. we agree on what actually happens with these rates. why not just get rid of the damn thing or have one very low flat

corporate rate, less than the world has and get rid of the deductions? >> i actually can dough along with that. >> got a deal! >> corporations the place to first try the flat tax. a good idea but get rid of the deductions and other stuff? >> could we try the flat tax with the corporations? both republicans and democrats at least say they agree we got to lower this thing. so start with the corporate flat tax? >> oh, i think you can get rid of some of the loopholes and the lower the corporate tax rate. in the real world, david, unless you get rifd almost every loophole, you touch one, you've got to touch them all. you can't pick and do it. so do the whole thing and you've got to combine it with the personal, because if you go to somebody sabd i just reduced the corporate tax rate from 35% to 10% or 15%, taxes stay the same. not going to work. got to do them both. >> used to be not long ago, early 2000s, canada's corporate rate was higher han our corporate rate. they lowered theirs and look

what happened. kand doo canada for the most part missed out on that recession that crippled this country. we're still suffering from it. they've grown much fachter than most of the countries in comparable size. we have examples thousand does help a nation when you lower that rate? >> absolutely. first of all steen put it betve but-of-put it better that i could ever say on the show. one of the things to make clear, we want people to invest in american companies. if we lower the corporate tax rate as canada did, it makes us a much more desirable country for other countries to invest in. >> i'm going see, rick's made a deal with some of us. john tamny are you onboard, maybe turn the corporate tax rate into a sample case for a flat rate across the board? >> absolutely. i say it a lot but there are no companies and no jobs without investment first. and we live in this world where if i spend all my money on booze and women the government doesn't tax me but if i have the temerity to invempt in the

companies of today and the future i face capital gains. corporate taxes. completely backwards and anti-corporate and job creation. >> remember the great jim michaels, steve works have had a field day with that booze and women comment. >> what? >> we got to leave it at that, folks. thank you. last word from john. coming up more than 20 states hiking their min mup wage in the new year. why are unions still demanding 15 bucks an hour? "cashin' in" gang on what's ahead in 2015 if they get their wish. first, right here on forbes, more millennials are shacking up with their parents. now, how that could drag down the value of your home.

more millennials not leaving

the nest. stuck with mom and dad instead. while that could really stick it to all

lots are kids home for the holidays. that's good. lots are also staying home for good. a new report showing more millennials are still living with mom and dad instead of getting married and buying a house of their own and carrie you say could be a drag on the value of everybody's house. how so? >> yes. first giving me graphic images there with that shacking up with the parents. but, no, it's true. there is less demand, because millennial, the national association of realtors put out a report low nest a generation in terms of first home buyers affecting the price. less demand drags down the price for everybody else. a lot of it is because of student debt. so students are going into debt for degrees that don't matter. if i hear about another gender studies $100,000 debt or

students going into debt for private or -- for-profit colleges for degrees that aren't very useful it's really effecting and having a domino effect. >> is this going to affect the value of my property? >> sure it is. less demand. the way you fix it not the specific grants they love to do in washington, credits and the like. fix the dollar fix the tax today, obamacare, you'll see this economy roar ahead and housing prices will go up because demand will go up millennials get real jobs and have the income to buy the houses. >> and millennials living at home increased from 11% to 14% since 2008. a huge increase. >> it's a problem. ensz specially if you happen to have one of those millennials who have come home. >> wait wait, wait. hood on. it is a double-edged thing here. i mean, there is good to it as well, but go ahead. >> but, look you it's going to have a small-term impact, a short-term impact.

eventually even out, everybody gets jobs married, start to buy houses. in the interim, depending on the city you live in could be a problem. >> eventually, we keep hearing eventually get better, make more money. eventuallyillennials move out. what will this happen? >> a bubble caused by ultra low interest rates ultra low mortgage rates and once again doing the same mistakes that led to the housing bubble that crashed in 2007. we're now encouraging bankers to lend money to people who want to buy homes only put 3% down. we're at a house you bubble already, i think. >> john what do you think? >> ultimately, have good for the housing market, simply because it's good for the economy. there's this idea that home ownership actually helps people. but millennials by their very name are young. you want them to not own so that they can be mobile and pursue the best jobs. this will ultimately be great

for them demand will go up over time. >> carrie, quickly. >> no. when people buy mortgages they're invested in the community, pro-social behavior. we want people to be part of the american dream and people are shackled with student debt. >> hope the american dream continues. you want to know why you should be listening to these guys every week? here it is. if you bought their stocks, you'd really be celebrating now. get their best picks for 2015.on ca insurance. yeah, everybody knows that. well, did you know that playing cards with kenny rogers gets old pretty fast? ♪ you got to know when to hold'em. ♪ ♪ know when to fold 'em. ♪ ♪ know when to walk away. ♪ ♪ know when to run. ♪ ♪ you never count your money, ♪ ♪ when you're sitting at the ta...♪ what? you get it? i get the gist yeah. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

ability we are back with our informers new stock winners for the new year. mike, you perked staples. 40% rise since you picked it. what do you have now? >> hasbro. people tend to forget about the toymaker after christmas. i'm a contrarian. >> you like hasbro? >> disposable income good for toy purchases. >> and what do you like now? up 30%. >> american airlines stronger dollar is great for the economy and means lower oil prices. this will be good for airlines. >> what do you think about the

airlines? >> david, flown american actually a lot the past several months and really like the service. >> good. here's to american airlines. maybe you'll get bumped up. that's it for "forbes on fox." thanks for watching. keepright here. the number one business block continues with eric bolling and "cashin' in." i actually think that the issue has surfaced in a way that probably is healthy. president obama saying race relations are better under his watch, but let's go to the videotape. protesters looting and destroying businesses all across the country. does footage like this prove the president's wrong? and america is in trouble in 2015? plus -- after the ball dropping for the new year the minimum wage rising in 21 states but unions are still demanding more money, pushing for $15 in 2015. if they get what they want will we all pay the price? and then -- cuckoo on