tense shootout with two individuals in a small business and an industrial park. the word is that they used -- the individuals have taken at least one hostage in this business. there are helicopters overhead. there are more reinforcements being rushed to this town. again we are waiting for confirmation that the two main suspects in the brutal shooting to death of 12 individuals on wednesday here in paris are the suspects we are -- the police are looking for but it has all of the hallmarks of being exactly that. because this location is about a 30-minute drive from the last place it is believed that the suspects have been spotted. and that was yesterday morning when they robbed a gas station of food and of gas in a car

that they had hijacked to get themselves out of paris on wednesday. the same car has been found in this location and then they fled on foot into the forested area. exactly about a 30-minute distance from that location is where this intense gun fight and hostage situation is taking place. again because there is a hostage involved we have to believe that there is control of the gunfire, but we know there have been shots fired. >> so gregg, the chase we were just talking about, do you know if this chase was taking place with these two suspects and then culminated in arriving at this business where they went in to take the hostage? >> i am going to be very careful here. there has been so much misinformation put out on such patchy reports and a

fast-breaking story. we are aware of reporting of a chase. we are aware of police following a vehicle on a main highway that leads out of paris. i just put it out as a theory that they have hijacked another car. the police spotted them in the car. they fled from the police in that car and then ended up in this industrial park this business park and are holed up there. that's a here rethat may connect the separate reports which i great on which is a chase. this is what we are counting on. paris is not far from the crime scene. all of the french media attention is focused on the small business where there seems to be in the words of

the media an intense shooting going on and a hostage taking involving two individuals. >> there are a few aerial photos and it looks like it is seven or eight small businesses northeast of paris. it doesn't sound like much of a distance too americans. you probably think it is quite suburban. but it gets rural quite fast here in france. it is a small town nearby. it is a small industrial park. i am looking at a live picture now and i am seeing two helicopters poised in the air over this location.

one is very low from my time in helicopters, quite low. maybe about a hundred feet and another is 200 feet. it is anti-riot anti-terror and police units which are involved. i am working off of the information that is being put out. again the word from the interior minister says that an operation is underway. the gign one of the anti-terror forces here is in play and an operation continues at this moment. i am reading the statement he just put out now. an operation is underway in this town. it is a town dammartin. again, a small village but maybe it has all of france

looking right now. it may be the culmination of a shocking terror attack that has riveted the entire world. >> do you know what type of business this is in the industrial park? >> it literally means business company, business public. i don't have a definition of that. they are saying the two brothers , shariff and saed are -- in french it literally means entrenched. but holed up is a good english translation. they are holed up in this location. i have to tell you that i will not confirm it and i will not go ahead of it. a french media source is saying that it is the two main suspects that were -- that had been named in this terror attack and are at this location. i am repeating a

fairly reliable french television media source. i did not have confirmation of that directly. >> and you are hearing that it is possibly one and possibly two people that could be being held as hostages right now? >> yes, hostages for sure. being held. we are learning a little french here as we go along. i hope our viewers are. they are being held by the suspects. that's the headline in the french media. a hostage. one hostage is being held by the suspects. so if you take that -- and that is by the television -- it is one of -- they have three 24-hour newschannels. i lived here. i spent eight years living in paris. it is a reliable source. i am going to a couple of different sources. according to the french media let's boil it down.

the two suspects in the shootout which left 12 dead are in an industrial park 25 miles northeast of paris. there has been a shootout involving police and they are holding one hostage. there are three helicopters overhead. that's what the french media is reporting. >> gregg, can you describe what the weather is like there? when we were watching the chase prior to this it looks like it is raining pretty heavy. is that what is happening around this industrial park right now? >> it is raining. i would say it is more of a drizzle than anything else. it is typically rainy in france and the paris region. you know it is at this time. it is not as much of a phaker -- factor. but even the helicopter is a little lost in the clouds because it is misty. prior to this happening, were you hearing about any other reports that lead up to this as the suspects were to

spotted and how they got into that building? >> it is a good question and we will look to if we can connect the dots as the morning moves along. alls you have reported and as i have seen reported there was a car chase involved and police activity is in -- activities in the area. i won't link them until we know further what is going on there. conceivably they could have hijacked another car we didn't know about. all we know was they were in a car at 10:30 paris french time yesterday morning, thursday morning. they robbed a gas station. they got gas. they got food. they sped off from the gas station, and then they abandoned the car at the edge of a large forest a national park. it is a forest in that area. that car was spotted. it was the same car that had been hijacked on wednesday as they fled the terrorist

scene. that was a dot connected. then they were on foot going into the forest. it seems to me another car could have been taken. >> it is possible the reports of the shots fired could have been the suspects getting to this industrial park and getting into the area and into that building and the police may have been shooting and exchanging fire at that point. >> that sounds like a good theory. i am not going to back that up completely, but it sounds like a connection. that is less important. what is important is all french media are saying that the two suspects in the wednesday shooting are identified as being in an industrial park, small business 25 miles northeast of paris. they are surrounded by

police. they are holding at least one hostage. there have been shots fired. but there is no con fir payings payings -- confirmation of the situation. frankly the tone and the tenor of the situation here, i think the job would have been finished if there is no innocent involved. >> what are you seeing on the news media here? right now the only footage we have is this continuing chase. what kind of access are you seeing on the screens there and what can you describe for us? >> some good video as i. noted a couple minutes ago of two helicopters over a location. it clearly seems to be that they were hovering over the trillion spark. park. i was seeing a video on the highway too, but frankly i think it is the television

teams race together location to get a view of what is going on. also we have been seeing a heavy police presence. i have not seen shots being fired. i have seen a huge presence. as you have been reporting there are thousands and thousands of police and soldiers. the latest word we are getting and we are getting bits and pieces as it comes across and this is a quote from an official that it is basically using an analogy here, it is a state of war. it is a war zone in that area. i think he is using that expression to describe the tensions and the amount of -- perhaps the amount of gunfire already used. but there is no confirmation that the gunfire is continuing right now. >> and gregg, tell us again how far outside the city? you said how many miles this was? >> about 25 miles.

i lived in paris and could have gotten there in my willed on volkswagen golf in half an hour if there is no traffic. it didn't get far. >> that leads me to believe they did not get far. that's right. so i am wondering since this is a hostage situation just what kind of access they are going to even allow the news media to get close to see any of this. just to again keep everyone clear of the area. >> exactly. they will push it far back and even the crime zone when we arrived on wednesday we couldn't get within three blocks. they will be held back. >> the footage you are seeing of the helicopter is probably from a distance as well. >> a distance, but fairly close. about 500 yards. because of the hoss steming element -- hostage element and

a a -- i feel comfortable repeating french media and i am seeing seeing it verified in several occasions and because i am on the phone with you i can't make confirmations with police. but the latest report is that the hostage is a woman. >> i was going to ask do we know if it is a man or woman? the report is that of a woman. >> don't have it confirmed, but that's what french media is reporting. >> all right. gregg, anything else from your point of view? you feel a hunch from following this or anything you can assess from your vantage point? >> i want to be careful. in this day and age i will say something and it will be tweeted to the entire cyber sphere. there was a phrase used in the french media quoting an

official. it is talking -- it is an english word meaning coming to a conclusion. i think perhaps prior to the knowledge of a hostage there, the officials are thinking we got this and we will reach a conclusion. why it is dragging out is the hostage element. the last thing they want is another ingnaw meant person die as well as 11 who died. that's why this has become a big drama. i do have to believe after being here for three days and after following the french security apparatus and their techniques for many years they are not going to let these guys go. i promise you. i will stake my reputation on that. >> we haven't been able to see anything if people left the

buildings or came unrunning out of the building -- came running out of the building. we don't know how many work in the industrial park or may have been in the business with the woman who may be a postage. >> no, i don't have information on that. gotta believe they probably tried to inform people to stay inside those buildings because obviously with loose gunfire that could be a serious problem. but again, we have seen our time in paris. we have seen a dram i can it stepping up -- a dramatic stepping up of not just police and a military presence but a draping it stepping -- dramatic stepping up. a woman was killed when she was dealing with a traffic accident in the southern suburb of paris. that got everybody on edge. then there was another scare that has a belt way or highway

around it and there are main entrance, about 10 of them. there was another scare that the terrorists would come back and they would do another attack. we all pretty much knew that this wasn't going to end neatly and peacefully and it wasn't going to end unfortunately perhaps without more casualties. that's what we are following right now. >> and which unfortunately would have been better for everybody if they had arrived at this industrial complex before the work day started. maybe they would not be dealing with a hostage situation right now. >> that's true. this whole thing broke. that was the gunfire in the last 45 minutes. french time -- i don't have an exact time, but at the industrial park it would put it 9:00 a.m. french time, 9:15. maybe that car chase occurred prior to that. a couple of other reports.

rtl is -- excuse me. rtl is another important media agency. they are reporting that two people have been seriously injured after an exchange of fire. we don't know an exchange of fire. we don't know who the two people are whether it's police or as you are concerned about or worried about other civilians at the site. rtl french media is reporting two injuries. >> i am sure if that was the suspects they woulding saying that it sounds like it is something other than the suspects. >> we already have two casualties in the rapid unfolding drama. >> we have gregg palkot in france right now. the two suspects seem to be held up in an trill park in an office--

industrial park possibly with a female hostage. i would think in this day and age of texting and cell phones and so many communication devices if there were other people in that building or in that area that you could be possibly trying to communicate with the outside world. >> you would think that. i am scanning very rapidly not only the french media but the french twitter sphere looking for that. i saw one that seemed to verify the fact that they were inside there. that is important. i am looking for more information right now. another live helicopter hovering over head again following just some information here. we are talking about 100 -- literally hundreds of police surrounding this location now. that is the latest report we are

getting. i am seeing more and more and more police surrounding it. so you have got to say that these two men with perhaps their hostage or hostages will be vastly out numbered by the french authorities. well they already are now. but as the minutes condition it will be just a matter of waiting it out and performing their operation in the most effective way. >> absolutely. gregg palkot. thank you so much coming to us live just 25 miles outside of paris where this is taking place. keep youus posted. thank you for the information you have given us so far. new developments at this hour on the manhunt for the terrorist behind wednesday's massacre at the office of the news paris newspaper. the two suspects have stolen a car and they may be or might be holding hostages. joining us now fbi trill

profiler mary ellen o'toole. what can you tell us? >> the news reports are confusing relative to the hostage, but let's say that that is true. that is really indicative of these two people who are not willing to give up their plan at this point. if they were you would see some kind of behavior that would indicate, hey, we are done, this is over, we don't want to go any further. we are continuing their lethal behavior. that makes them extremely dangerous. because outs of 100 cases 99 percent of the time these people are going to give it up. >> yeah, yeah. they are so out numbered right now it is like a last ditch effort i could image. >> it is preposterous to think they could get out of this. clearly their judgment is flawed. they are committed to death if that's what happens and that appears at this point that's probably what's going to happen.

again we don't see any behavior on their part according to the news reports that they are willing to surrender. >> as far as being surrounded by hundreds now of possible military, what do you think is going to be their next move, the suspects are in there with the possible female poshostage? >> at this point i think the most likely outcome is there is going to be some kind of a firefighter and that would include possibly suicide or suicide by cop and that hostage is obviously in grave danger. it was indicated it was a female hostage. we know their behavior before the last couple of days has been not to kill the females. we can hope that will be the case but this will be so chaotic that hostage is in extremely grave danger. at this point they are so committed to their behavior to

their leafality it will probably end in a firefighter. >> what else can you possibly tell us about their thought process right now? this has been going on for over 24 almost 48-hours, and they have only gotten 25 miles out of paris. who knows if they have slept, who knows what state of mind they were in in addition to what they were when this all came down. >> we know they have never been in a situation like this. they have probably not slept november havenor have they eaten. well these kinds of individuals having this kind of international attention could be a motivator for them and not a detract tore. we can't say that certainly. let's keep in mind they committed this crime in broad daylight in downtown paris where

there were cameras. people were taking pictures of what was going on. these are people that are not shy of attention. >> it would be interesting to know if they randomly probably had to have chosen this location if they were on the run. is there anything in there they could be looking at to monitor what is being reported or what media attention they are getting. >> the police are careful about what they are putting out there obviously they can see them but to be able to monitor the situation absolutely. it doesn't take sophisticated technology nowadays for hostage takers for killers lake this to be able to do this. it is safe to assume they are monitoring it. >> they are in here apparently with a female hostage.

they know the extent. there must be hundreds of police and military outside. what do you think from your point of view would be a tipping point for them to take some kind of an action now at this poivenlt>> the tipping point could come from them. it doesn't necessarily have to come from the law enforcement people that are there at the scene. there could be distress between the two brothers. they could be having arguments and fights about what should we do next. it could come from the hostage inside. she is obviously terrified. she said something. so the tipping point is pretty unpredictable. doesn't have to be something major either. now a very delicate situation

from ifn terms of what might tip them to take the next step. >> we have no idea if they have tried to show they have this hostage or trying to make an announcement. i wish we could find out how this hostage was in fact taken. >> that's right. we don't know. when the dust settles on this i think we will find out is that a lot of what was reported is not completely accurate. it is a chaotic scene right now and we have determined they have a hostage. you are not going to be able to refine those details that's not going to happen until it case is resolved. it could go on for a while but i think most of us would agree it probably won't. it won't be until after it is resolved. >> we know at the outcome the pieces will come together in a

much more accurate and enlightening way. >> thank you very much for your time and insight this morning. >> you are very well come. >> coming up we are going to be going to "fox & friends first" right now. ♪

>> it is now 26 minutes after the hour. we are obviously starting "fox & friends first" early, because the two suspects that are involved with the paris shooting on wednesday at the newspaper there they are hold up. there's a ring of steel. the french counter-terrorism forces have a ring of steel there in paris. this is happening 25 miles northeast of paris. >> that's right. we are hearing this is a rural area northeast of paris. there are reports the two suspects may have robbed a gas station and taken things from that, that may have led police to the area where they are located near sharyls hebb doe-- the airport. we are getting reports of violent exchange of gun fire. a hostage reportedly a woman is

believed to have been taken and is being held inside an industrial complex northeast of paris. the two suspects said kouachi and cherif kouachi stole a car before another gun fight with police and fleeing with the hostage. one person is believed to have been killed in that gun fight. for the latest we are going to go to gregg palkot live in france to tell us what's happening there now. >> what's happening? >> ainsley and lea breaking news as we speak. it looks like this terror drama is coming to some kind of a conclusion but not quite yet. the two main suspects in this case said and cherif kouachi are hold up in a business park

industrial mark 25 miles to the northeast of paris. there has been an intense shootout involving police and the suspects. there has been at least one hostage taken. right now according to the top officials here in france there is a war zone occurring right now around that location. let me backtrack and bring you up to the events that are unfolding as we speak. the incident involving the 12 deaths the main terror act happened wednesday just before noon. one car was taken. another car was hijacked in the get away process. that car was driven up to the northeast of paris. it was spotted at a gas station thursday morning 10:30 in the morning to the northeast of paris where the gas station was robbed both of gas and of flood.

people resembling the suspects were seen there. that car sped away and that car was ditched later in the day on thursday on the edge -- yes you have me. sorry, excuse me. i got an interrupt there. that car was on the side of the forest to the north of paris. and then the two individuals the main suspect fled into the forest and ran from police. the police on friday they apparently hijacked another car and that was involved in another car chase and shooting involved at that time and police led them to the industrial park. >> you mentioned that a hostage was taken at least one pi pat this point.

do we know during thesewhen during these events the hostage was taken and do we know anything about the hostage at this time? >> that's a good question. we are looking into that further. there are some accounts they were arriving at the industrial park. other suppositions that this individual was there at the scene when they arrived. i don't think that's as important as noting the situation now that they have a civilian along side them. as you mentioned as we have mentioned the authorities are calling this a war zone right now. hundreds of police and military are surrounding this location. you have to believe they might have moved in a little quicker. this has been going on for about an hour and a half. if there wasn't a civilian an innocent involved they were holding back perhaps to try to deal with the situation. you have to believe the two main

suspects realized that is there ticket to freedom. that is their ticket to stay alive as long as they hold on to this person. but again five helicopters hovering over the situation. guns trained on the situation and we have learned it has been reported there has been heavy gun fire and possible injuries. no deaths but possible injuries due to the shoot-out guys. >> touchy situation. gregg palkot we will be looking to you as news develops. >> we are going to officer gary bernstein. are you with us? >> yes i am. >> what do you know about the operation that will be taking place and what the french paramilitary forces would be doing at this time especially considering there is a hostage situation that we know at least one hostage has been taken? >> well clearly given the fact that these two terrorists have been using automatic weapons

fire they are not going to let them move from there. they will not negotiate with them. they will attempt to only do an negotiation if there is a hostage. don't count on a plane coming in to help them they are not going anywhere. the french will not let them leave. it will be are these individuals willing to negotiate the life of the hostage or will it be suicide by cop? they can't afford to let them use. given the fact that they are use automatic weapons if they are permitted to leave other innocents will die. that's what this is. this is a standoff. hopefully the french will be able to use the techniques that swat forces use to collect information up close, to do their best to maybe get someone

to twrie try to talk to them. it is going to end at the location at one way or another. >> we are looking at pictures 5 helicopters hovering from above. we saw the pictures of squad cars and people standing above. with your experience what's happening on the ground in france? >> there's an on scene commander of course. they will have a structure they will set up locally. there will be on scene commander. there will be someone attempting to negotiate. there will be a swat team commander logistics people setting up. they are setting up an incident response effort at that location. they will have a senior officer commanding this thing. in that business commanders never negotiate and negotiators never command. the negotiations will be separate from the person -- an attempted negotiation will be separate from that commander they are going to try to talk them out but separate from that it is going to end there at that

location. the feds are pretty good at this. if they have the technical stuff, they are equivalent of what we think of the state police. they handle things over france therrel trained. they are very sophisticated at this stuff. hope if there is a hostage that they are able to negotiate the life of that hostage, but i am not positive it is going to end that way. >> the u.s. said they would of course help the french in this as much as they can. you mentioned these negotiations, the french have excellent forces, excellent paramilitary and swat forces. can you talk a little bit more about what was being said about the negotiations? this is a touchy situation with lots of military forces swarming the area. they made it clear they are willing to kill others and now they have a hostage.

how do those negotiations take place and what do you expect to come out from this? >> we are going to try. we don't know if they established communication they may not even want to talk to them. the first step is to attempt to make contact. i have seen almost zero cases where you have had a siege like this where sunni fundamental its of theal ist s /* fundamentalists negotiate. they don't negotiate. there's a group in pakistan, they use a thing they use where they don't blow nem selves upthemselves up but they fight to the death. i would expect they will fight to the death. >> the fact that they have taken a hostage may indicate that's not their intent. we don't know what's in their minds. what will does it mean when someone takes a hostage what might their motivation be for

that? >> last minute desperation for these guys. normally when you look at something like this you will say was this a conspiracy of three the one guy did turn himself in which was unusual and the other two or is it 12? when you look at operations jihadists do especially the sunni version like when they attack their embassies they don't usually have a great exit plan. they didn't think they were going to live beyond the attack. a lot of guys were left behind and caught or expected to die on scene. these individuals to me i am looking at this entire operation looks like it was done by these two and the other it doesn't look like to me outward involvement of many others because it doesn't look that sophisticated. we will know when this is over. we will know when we look at the cell phone laws. their presurveillance activity

in the initial attack. you will tart isstart to look at did they have documents. we will learn a lot about this when it is over. hope there is an innocent life in there and the person is actually saved. >> we continue to see the helicopters flying around. we know this is a massive military operation. can you breakdown a little bit for us how this would work how the swat forces would work to try to de escalate the situation try and rescue this hostage? >> when you do this the most important person is not the smart forces it is the on scene commander. the on scene commander has a negotiating team he has swat force and special weapons and tactics teams to try to pin them in. he will try to set up communications. this is all kinds of schools he has. it's like a kitchen cabinet. five or six individuals underneath him that will be doing certain tasks as he attempts to contain the crisis and resolve the crisis. that individual will communicate

directly with a national command in paris. the on scene commander will be running the show there and going right back to an on scene commander who that person would be reporting directly to the prime minister of france. >> gary bernstein thank you so much for joining us former cia officer combargary bernstein. great insight. appreciate that. we are going to bring in our terrorist expert waleed ferris. we are learning about this what's happening in france we have been covering it all morning. if you look at this it is reminisce sent of what happened after the boston bombing after the marathon bombing. it is different than what we see in most terrorist situations. what do you make of this? what does your expertise say?

>> this is a boston in france. this is a group it happens that they are also two brothers whohave brothers who have not planned a complete exit strategy. the exit strategy would be to leave the scene of the crime or of the terror act and then hide somewhere that is isolated. they are in paris hoping to find a location to stay there a few days and escape, what's happening right now. this failed and once the french authorities, the multiple agencies have surrounded them have located them. it has been extremely difficult at this point in time by the ji addists to get any sleep. negotiations will be difficult

they may negotiate hostage after hostage. what is the exit? the only exit to hope for is to leave france. that is not going to happen. that is not the closing chapter. the curiosity today, the capacity of the french if there is a hostage that tracks this hostage. the french authorities as far as we can see. >> what's going through the minds of these terrorists? >> at this point in time there must be i believe a very intense conversation about those p of them together. it is emotional for them but at the same time this is the moment where only the ideology and their goals are going to be guiding them. there are no discussions among themselves to surrender at this point in time. it could happen.

i don't think it will happen. they are going to stretch this as long as possible so the legacy of this operation will be as long as possible as deadly as possible. do they have help the circle around them is so strong now once there is a contact between the agency that are following them and them they are located they are completely oyes lated from even any help that would come to them. >> we do know that they were on the no fly list. they are connected with al qaeda. they are the worst of the worst. we have seen what happened in paris on wednesday. are they going to stop at nothing they are willing to die in the name of allah? >> the operation as designed was they are hard-core jihadists

now. there are two kinds of jihadi operations won the decision to do a suicide mission. there would be a car bomb, an individual suicide mission and that was not the case. in this case it was a hit and run for them they were left to go into the under ground and it is assumed it will be a suicide ending. >> what was your reaction to howard dean saying they are not muslim extremeistsextremists. he calls these guys he says they are members of a cult. what's your reaction? >> some politicians don't want to engage in this the theological ideological discussion. it is across with islam it is

peaceful. that is understood. he himself has meeting with islamic opposition to iran. he knows that. they call themselves islamist fundamentalist. it is a purpose of not opening this debate. >> waleed phares anything else you want to say? what was your thoughts when you woke up to this? >> they are isolated in an area. we knew this would be the ending. my concern is going to the future. are there more of these hard-core jihadists trying to harm in france at the strategic level. >> or in america. every country across the world is on high alert now.

>> put it that way, the conversation between france and the united kingdom, australia, canada, most of the western world the conversation over the past six months it was about the return of the jihadists coming from syria and iraq and other parts including africa. thises pthis is the appetizer. we see what could happen in the future with similar situations. what concerns me is the training and execution of the operation, the time of the jihadi professional. >> how do we prevent something like this from happening again or here or in any other country? >> the answer the public didn't want to hear from officials, and i am not an official it possible or impossible? >> in my view it is impossible to keep the jihadists from trying.

what we can do as governments and civil societies across the world is to be more alert, to get more education as to how to detect. except for these two americans before they engage in the operation immediately there were jihadists they have come before. (indiscernible). let's look at other situations. who is returning from the battlefield of the levant in the middle east? this is where we stop a little earlier in the process. >> thank you very much walid phares. for those of you just waking up we are learning french security forces have rushed french counter terrorist specialists they have formed a ring of steel around the suspects in at no time deadly terror attack in paris. negotiations are underway. we are getting reports of a violent exchange of gun fire. a hostage reportedly a woman has been taken and is being held

inside the industrial complex that is less than 30 miles northeast of paris. >> the two sus specs stole a car after another massive gun fight before or with police whether they were fleeing with that hostage. they were spotted at a gas station they robbed gasoline robbed food from that gas station. we have had mixed reports that at least one person is believed to have been killed. >> we are learning new information about their ties to terrorism. these are the kouachi brothers. they are believed to be on the no fly list. cherif kouachi met with at least one al qaeda operative when he was in prison at some time. we don't have more information on that but if we do we will get that to you. we have colonel ralph peters on the phone. can you hear me? (speaking on telephone) >> i can hear you indeed. >> i understand you have some

perspective on the intelligence side of this, that basically you say the psychology of these two terrorists these two men changes from the time they execute the first attack to now when they have stolen the car they have robbed a store apparently and now they have taken a hostage. >> certainly we know these are hard-core killers. they believe it enough for a complex plan and believe it enough to execute it as well. as soon as they attacked and fled they lost their opposition. they were in charge. after that they were the hunted. even though it doesn't know where they are it is after them. when you hear the cliche phrase hunted animals no matter how tough how hard-core these guys are when they have been on the

run for days they haven't gotten much sleep eating what food they can get from gas stations, animal instincts take over. now that there has been an exchange of gun fire we don't know one or more may have been injured, no matter how tough you are the physical raw fear that literally makes your body smell that takes over. so we believe they have a hostage. i suspect that that part is true because otherwise the french would have already moved in. they are either hard-core jihadis arguing over minor points when they get weary or distressed they argue over little things. one brother may be thinking we need to go out in a blaze of glory how do we kill as many frefrp cops as we can, the other one may be less sure. the hostage is certainly

terrified possibly bleeding. we don't know how they will behavior with the woman young woman old woman. they are variables. human beings in bureaucracies in this kind of situation can be very cynical. in the intelligence side they would like to interrogate them. the french don't have any concerns with waterboarding with these guys. they would like to interrogate them. for the french government the best outcome is to kill them. if you take them prisoner, they don't have the death penalty. they will be in jail for a very very long time. we have this illusion dead terrorists become martyrs. you don't see a lot of demonstrations for osama bin laden or abu czarzarqawi.

you get kidnappings, spectacular violent events in their name. the french are probably asking themselves do we kill them? no we need to interrogate them. no, we need to kill them. it is that brutal where the action is. and it is certainly the upper levels of decision. >> we have to make the same point that you make about the possibility of killing them or interrogating them. when we look at our missions overseas and in places like afghanistan the capture kill missions it is always a question of my military service. it is a question what can you get from the person you can keep them alive or get more information. in this case you can find out the french authorities could find out a lot more about them with their ties to other networks if they can capture them alive. what will play in as far as now that they have a hostage and trying to protect that hostage

and weighing the two. >> certainly you are right. the hostage is the big x factor right now. in everything you say is true but if you look at our own policy our own would like the prisoners to interrogate but our own policy is to kill them. they don't want more guantanamo issues. to please the soft hearted left we just kill them during commander style raids special ops raids. these terrorists if they are taken alive they are a liability. you hit on the key point right now. whether you want to call it the key variable or key factor the key complicating factor is the hostage. the french police they don't want to look incompetent. they want to end this as cleanly and well with as good of an

image. image matters, too. that means they want the hostage alive. whether they are going to get that hostage alive none of us know, but i doubt it. >> and of course colonel peters you know the frefrn governmentnch government has been known to pay ransoms to terrorists in the past unlike the united states. it will be interesting to see what happens in this case how they handle the situation. >> they are not going to pay any ransom. >> colonel peters thank you so much for joining us. >> yes. the u.s. doesn't negotiate with terrorists. there are reports two runways have been closed at the airport. if you have flown into that airport it is not far out of the city only two-miles from the shoot-out we have the breaking details. greg, what's the latest? >> ainsley, lea that's the

reports we are getting. i have not confirmed the reports that two runways at the main paris airport to the northeast of the city has been closed. we are getting reports of flights diverted moved around canceled. the airport is not far from where this is going down. if you are driving it is a 40 minute drive northeast. the idea that they are trying to keep planes away from that area makes a lot of sense. we are looking at live feeds of the situation. there are as many as five helicopters hovering over the business where the two main suspects in paris are now hold

up. we have more information between the police and the main suspect as well. the main newspaper of paris, the most reliable is saying there are negotiations ongoing between the hostages and police. that is significant. that means authorities are trying to resolve this peaceably. peerts was absolutely spot on when he said the holding of the hostage changes everything changes the dynamics of this bhoel situation. let's backtrack quickly and give a rundown. the shooting on monday before noon at the newspaper office involved these two main suspects according to the police. 12 people died in that situation. they took one car hijacked a

second car in the outskirts of paris and sped off. >> you have a lot of experience reporting from war zones sounds like that's kind of what it is like there right now. >> yes, exactly. it has been described as a war zone. it has been described as a ring of steel around this location. hundreds we are told hundreds of police anti force as well as military in the area. we have seen other police and vehicles in the area. i think it is important for our viewers to understand how this went down. they hijacked the one car from paris late wednesday and sped off about 40, 50 miles northeast of paris.

they were last spotted thursday morning at a gas station where they robbed gas as well as food, sped off again and abandoned the car on the edge of a forest. last night we left our viewers describing a massive manhunt in that forest. a manhunt in which they did not surface. we see police going back to paris to sleep for the night to come back on friday to continue the search. then the whole thing developed very early this morning paris time where the individual probably on foot the main suspects in this terror attack, the main suspects apparently hijacked yet another car and sped in the direction toward paris. remember there were about 45, 50 miles outside of paris where they were last sitedghted now they are heading toward paris in this hijacked car.

my guess and it is just a guess i don't have this confirmed is the hostage we are talking about could be the driver of that car. police were chasing this car with the two suspects inside there were shots fired according to reports in that case and it ended up in the industrial park this business park where we are at right now. it is a small business it is a printing company basically on one floor and that is where all of the french authorities are right now. >> do you remember yesterday we were hearing reports from the french authorities that these guys were in the town of rantz now they are hold up 25 miles outside of paris. was that misinformation or were they there and came in closer toward paris? >> i think it was pretty much ascertained they were never in

rantz a town further from paris. police were involved in a raid on the apartment in one of the two main suspects said kouachi. they were hoping to find him. but at the very least they were looking for any evidence to connect him directly with the terror attack. what we thought was a raid might have resulted in the arrests or otherwise of the two main suspects ended up being just evidence hunt. that was not incorrect information it was just a sign of the huge dragnet that then authorities have thrown over the entire region absolutely their number one priority is to get these guys. >> thank you so much greg pallet. i am sure we will be coming to greg palkot. if you are just joining us "fox & friends" are about to take over the coverage. these two brothers responsible for the shooting in paris on wednesday they are hold up right

now. french counter terrorist special forces have the suspect in the deadly terror attack in paris. they are surrounded. we will continue to bring you the latest information on "fox & friends" starting right now. thank you for joining us. >> a fair of brother pairer of brothers have taken a hostage. hundreds of security forces backed up by ambulances streamed into this small town to the north and to the east of paris where apparently the brothers are believed to be hold up after a die began tick manhunt of 88,000 police yesterday in france. >> yeah, steve, right now there are reports. this started at 4:00 a.m. local time eastern time for