good. aleve. proven better on pain. under heavy security, hundreds of thousands march in paris remembering the 17 victims who were killed in attacks by islamic jihadists and rallying against terror. the city remains on high alert as startling new reports emerge about the most wanted woman in france. we will have live team coverage from paris. a showdown between the white house and congress over the keystone pipeline. it could be just the first confrontation of many as the gop comes on strong and the president threatens vetoes. our political panel is here. businessman, reality tv star and possible political candidate donald trump? my one on one interview with the real estate mogul on his presidential aspirations. will he really run in 2016?

>> i am totally serious about it. i'm really looking at it so seriously. i mean to the extent that a lot of my time up here is spent thinking about that. >> much more on that. i'm shannon bream. america's news headquarters live from the nation's capital starts right now. last time i checked, we're at war. i wouldn't send my attorney general if i were president to deal with the radical islamic terrorists. the attorney general is a law enforcement officer and it says all you need to know about obama obama's view of this conflict. he think it is a crime out of control. i think it is a war out of control. >> republican senator lindsey graham taking a hard line against the white house's decision to send attorney general eric holder to a meeting in paris on fighting terrorism. all eyes were on the french city today as up to 1 million people, maybe more take to the streets in a somber march to honor the

victims of this week's terror attacks. this as new reports emerge about the female suspect in those atax. let's go start to paris. >> reporter: shannon obama might not be here, but there are a whole lot of other people out in the streets of paris tonight. it is the biggest outpouring of french and their emotions in decades, according to all accounts. the latest estimates as many as .5 million out on the streets of paris tonight. they're marching for unity they say, against terror, and everything that that represents. all segments of the population out as well. even a lot of french people who never go out but feel today they have to stand up against the terror and for freedoms. also, world leaders. world leaders from europe, the mideast and other representatives. u.s. attorney general eric holder holding the flag for the united states.

this as the investigation does continue into the terrible events of this past week. some detained by french authorities had been released but the search is intensifying for the woman that you mentioned. her name is hayat boumeddiene. she is the partner of it ameddy coulibaly coulibaly. he's believed to be responsible for that hostage taking at the kosher supermarket on friday. the thinking is that she is an accomplice on this, but the thinking, too, is that she is not here. she left this country through spain, through turkey, through syria syria. this, too, as her now-dead partner, coulibaly, more information about him. a new video emerges today with him again declaring his own

allegiance to the isis group. and also new information that fox news has confirmed that he is tied to another possible shooting on the same day as that other terrible slaughter at the french newspaper offers "charlie hebdo." the two individuals involved with that said and sharifcherif kouachi are pledging their allegiance to terrorism. there is from france's perspective, a war on terror. >> thank you, greg. for a closer look at the terror investigation and the wider war on terror across the world, we want to bring in fox news analyst wally ferris. doctor, good to have you with us today. these are the kinds of things that you for years have been warning about and not happy to share the news but saying we need to be aware that these things are coming. what do you make of what we saw in this week? >> this week is bringing us two

major developments. number one the jihadist movement -- regardless of al qaeda in the peninsula or isis. my own theory is that the jihadists in europe are forming their own company and dealing with the other organizations. on one hand, this was a military attack. this is not anymore a simple lone wochllf or group of lone wolves. but on the other hand, the public is rising. now you have two movements coming and they're going to clash at one point in time. >> we think about the president in egypt, al seeisi, who on new year's day was talking to a bunch of clerics and says it is time for a change in the way your religion is operating suggesting it can't be that the text means that you are to go out and terrorize the rest of the world. today what we've seen in egypt is a number of journalists there in protests showing their solidarity with the victims there in paris. what does that say to you that in countries like that, we do have this dichotomy about how people feel?

>> first of all shannon there is an ironic situation whereby our administration and many of our intellectual elite here in the washington and in the states in general areacting as apologists apologists, not willing to engage here. president sisi is going for reform. where did he do it? president sisi should be invited to washington to address the congress on these issues. we have an opening now. we need to see that opportunity. >> he's considered to be a devout individual. there are many schisms in many sects that often within any specific religion don't get along and that's tough for any leader to manage those but his words were very strong and very pointed to that specific group. now interesting today, amazing to see these pictures of paris and to see people of every religious faith, every denomination, every nationality standing there together and saying, enough is enough, we stand together against this.

do you think that fervor we're seeing, has legs now, that it will continue. >> it does on a popular level. i feel according to some of my french contacts that initially the push by the public after what happened in france is the reason for why the government adopted it invited leaders. this demonstration could have gone against the president and the government of france and they were smart enough to lead the demonstration because they knew that the french public had enough of this and wanted to express itself. now as you said this is a very diverse demonstration. not just french from all political parties, socialist, right wing, conservative, but also the majorities of the minorities were in the algerians, toounisians, jews. it means france can now have the silent majority isolating jihadists. this deployment of political personalities, it is what are we

going to do in the weeks and months to come. >> so much continues on the front of just this investigation, the search for this woman and warnings on many, many levels that this could be just the beginning. in france and across the west. so hopefully this will be a productive dialogue that goes somewhere and has some permanency. doctor, always good to see you. thanks for coming in today. we are now hearing a firsthand account from a 25-year-old man who's being hailed as a hero right now in france. muslim employee of a kosher supermarket, the one that was attacked on friday, he saved 15 people by leading them quickly downstairs, hiding them in a freezer, we're told for three hours during the siege. here's more on how he did it. >> translator: i came down run region towards the freezer and opened the door. there were several people with me. i turned off the light and the freezer. amongst the people who were with me, there was a 2-year-old child as well. i put them inside the freezer. closed the door and told them stay calm. i will go out. i went out i looked everywhere. i didn't see the hostage taker.

whether they came out, they congratulated me. they told me thank you really. i said it's nothing. that's life. >> four hostages, all jooiewish men were killed. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu announced today from paris where he was for that march, that all four will be buried in israel. german police detained two men suspected of an arson attack against a newspaper that reprinted the "charlie hebdo" cartoons. the newspaper said on its website that several files in its archive were destroyed but no one was hurt. the incident is being investigated. several other german newspapers have also reprinted the cartoons and are now getting police protection. we're going to take a closer look at efforts to protect our homeland here in the wake of the paris attacks later in the show so we want to know what you think at home. what happened more should we do to protect the homeland from extremists? are we doing enough? are we doing the right things?

tweet us @anhqdc and we will read some of your answers later on in the show. a brutal shooting spree in western idaho leaving three people dead, one critically wounded saturday. police say 29-year-old john lee began by murdering his mother in her home. he then drove to an office building shooting and killing his landlord and wounding another man. then drove to a restaurant and we're told killed the manager. after a high-speed car chase the suspect was captured alive by police. a scary standoff at a houston area hospital. a man barricaded himself inside the regional medical center for several hours before surrendering to police last night. authorities said the man was distraught over his son's medical condition. the man was unarmed at the time of the arrest and no injuries were reported. straight ahead, nearly 200 vehicles piled up in snowy michigan this weekend. you're not going to believe what made efforts to re-open that highway even more hazardous. plus, the supreme court could make a big on gay marriage tomorrow.

our legal panel takes a fair and balanced look at what's at stake. and later why donald trump is perfectly happy to have detractors. >> a lot of people don't like me. you know when you win people don't necessarily -- you create enemies. it's an amazing phenomena. when you win, people aren't exactly in love with you.

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we want to take you back now live to paris after this enormous march estimated to be maybe 1 million or more in paris. some world leaders are now going to the grand synagogue in at this hour. they include french president france olan. the terror attacks had closed the synagogue over the past couple of days. first time since world war ii that had happened. all of those leaders there going together to that synagogue to make a show of being there together. more than 40 top world leaders have been in paris including some of them truthfully or rarely ever united or on the same side of any issue. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, palestinian president mahmoud abbas. we see the ukrainian president,

petro poroshenko. the rgs the russian foreign minister sergey lavrov. we'll keep our eyes on these events in paris. we'll let you know as things develop there. is the supreme court getting ready to take up the issue of submerge same-sex marriage. many think the justices have no choice now but to weigh in on this issue. friday the court was scheduled to vote behind closed on five pending cases that could ultimately lead to a ruling on same-sex marriage. welcome to you both. as far as we know -- and we don't know because the court does a lot of things in secret. we think they voted on this on friday.

we could get an indication tomorrow morning. brian, is there any doubt in your mind that the court will have to weigh in at some point now that we have federal courts that are split on the bottom line question on the merits? >> i think that both sides of this debate, there is a lot of differences, but i don't see a lot of differences on the fact that the court is likely going to take and grant cert in at least one of these cases, i think a number of them. i don't read too much into the fact that we didn't get a decision on friday. this can take some time. there are a number of different requests for cert. i expect it will happen. it may not happen next week. it may happen as late maybe as the 23rd but i think it is going to happen. >> elizabeth, although everyone pretty much seems united on that front, the timing is interesting because if we don't get a decision in the next couple of days about whether they're going to hear one of these cases or multiple cases it won't happen this term meaning we won't have a decision by june. that punts it to the fall. as we see states -- i think we have a map showing where

same-sex marriage is legalized. that number is now three dozen or so. if this delays another year or year-and-a-half, what does that do to what we're seeing at the state level? >> well, i think it is really important that the court take up the issue in the first place to determine that there is a fundamental right to marry the person of your choosing regardless of whether you're gay or straight black or white. the court weighed in 50 years ago saying that state bans on couple of different races marrying was unconstitutional under the 14th amendment. i'm confident that this time when the court takes us this fundamental right of equality and marriage, they will also be on the right side of the constitution and the right side of history. but if the court delays, then i think we're going to continue to see people being denied their fundamental rights and the court's job is to step in and vindicate constitutional guarantees and that's its job. >> brian, do you think there is a chance that the justices based on a lot of decisions we've seen in recent years from these nine, do you think you have any chance to win this argument on traditional

marriage? >> oh, we definitely do. the weight of the law is clearly on the side of the millions of voters who have stood up and said we know what marriage is. marriage is the union of a man and a woman. there's something unique and special about the union of a man and a woman and we have the right to vote on it. just yesterday which has gotten very little press, the 9th circuit, there was a strong dissent issued from the 9th circuit where justice scanlon and others basically made the argument point-blank saying binding supreme court precedent from 1972 in baker v. nelson is that the federal government has no right to come in and usurp and create out of thin air a right to same-sex marriage. what we are being asked to believe goes against any common sense understanding of law, and that is that with somehow passage of the 14th amendment in 1863 the court created same-sex marriage -- i'm sorry, the government created same-sex marriage and somehow we just haven't known it until now. that's wrong. and the civil rights that are being abridged here are the millions of voters who are

having "philosopher kings," judges, deciding that they have the right to trump the clear understanding of marriage in american law going all the way back to the common law and to the present and have their vote somehow discarded as if they don't matter. that's wrong and it is a slur to somehow say that merely standing up for the truth of marriage is somehow the equivalent of racism or bigotry. that's just run. >> clear you two will not agree on the merits of this. you will agree that the court -- we will be stunned, all of us, if they don't hear. it is just a matter of the timing. then we'll await the decision with two very different sides to this particular issue. thank you both for coming in to debate it. we'll see what the court does. we want to go back to now live. we've been monitoring the events of the last few weeks. certainly we are seeing unity play out today, and now several world leaders having gathered and the grand synagogue in paris. greg, are you there? >> reporter: yes absolutely,

shannon. >> what can you tell us about what you've seen today? >> reporter: we're watching the scenes inside, what is called the grand synagogue that is in the eastern side of the city, the largest synagogue in paris. paris still has a vibrant jewish community and attending the ceremony right now is along with israel prime minister benjamin netanyahu, are the top leaders and officials from the french government. that would include the frempk president, as well as the french prime minister as well as former french president nicolas sarkozy. there will be a 45-minute ceremony at that synagogue then prime minister netanyahu will say a few words. obviously the jewish community here and jewish people around the world very struck by the

events of the past couple days. particularly by the friday hostage taking and killing in the kosher supermarket on the eastern side of paris. four hostages were killed in that incident. that is that they weren't even alive to be hostages. they were killed when the gunman amedy cooulibalycoulibaly, burst into the store and shot them dead. we understand those four victims will be brought back to israel for burial there. we understand, too, in that incident there were four other people that were hurt and as well as police officers as well. words are being said between french president olan and the victims. the families of the victims. heart felt words.

we watch this enormous display throughout the streets of paris enormous outpouring of emotion from the french people. again, as we mentioned a short time ago the figures are absolutely mind boggling. estimates puts it up there about 1.5 million people. not for decades has this country seen this. and arguably not for decades have they been hit with an event like this. it is not just the jewish people of course, who are feeling the emotions. a wide cross section of french people coming out on the streets. very concerned about not just a strike against one ethnic or religious group or another, but the concept of freedom of expression, freedom of the media, freedom period with the slaughter at that "charlie

hebdo" newspaper office and people who in french minds, were doing exactly what they should be doing, saying what they wanted to say. >> greg, stand by. i want to bring back dr. ferris a terror analyst for us at fox and an expert on what's going on in the middle east. doctor, when you see this gathering there at the synagogue, leaders joining together visiting this historic place which was closed down the last couple of days because of threats, the first time since we're told world war ii, now re-opened, with a gathering of world leaders having marched there, some going inside with israel's prime minister, benjamin netanyahu. what does this say -- >> let me put some context into this event we are seeing right now. yes, this is the major synagogue, jewish center in france. but what has happened in previous hours is that many leaders from the arab world were there, the king of jordan the president of the palestinians, representatives and leaders from north africa the gulf and the prime minister of israel. it is like as if a conference is

taking place. a peace conference is taking place in france because of the action of these jihadists. for the prime minister of israel and the president of france to be there together in that synagogue, it sends a very strong symbol and sign to everybody else that there is an international unity and those who are isolated are the jihadists. add to this, one of the victims of these jihadist killers was a policeman, a french policeman, who was muslim. so everybody is represented except the jihadists. >> we're going to collection in with rick levinthal now, also out on the streets of paris, is seeing this as it unfolds today. rick, one french official said it is the largest demonstration in french history. people gathered from across every ideological spectrum. what's been your experience out there today? >> well, truly a remarkable day

and night, shannon. the crowd estimated at 1.3 million to 1.5 million people. they're still on the streets tonight, as you can see, chanting cheering playing music. every time a police car rolls by, they cheer for that police officer. these folks have been filling basically every street and avenue leading in and out of the plazas throughout this day completely packed with crowds. some of them have dissipated. they've opened some of the streets to traffic. but a remarkable sense of unity in it the streets. many people chanting "i am charlie" in solidarity with the victims of that attack on "charlie hebdo" newspaper. they've been chanting "liberty" or "freedom." also thanking the thousands of officers and security officials who responded to last week's string of attacks and have helped secure today's march. just a remarkable sense of unity on the streets, shannon and a really impressive show. as you mentioned, one french

official now says this is in fact the largest gathering in the history of this nation. and a remarkable scene that continues tonight, shannon. >> thank you very much, rick. i want to go back to greg now who's been following this since the horrible events of this week started to unfold. pe's been following the investigation and things as they play out there. greg, seeing those pictures from the streets and seeing the enormous cross cultural cross national cross religious support that's building there, we talked with dr. ferris about whether or not that translates into something more permanent. rick, what is your sense, your feeling there about the french people joining together there today? do you feel or get the sense that they are committed to a more long lasting change in some of these conversations? >> reporter: i think that's a very important point to make shannon. i used an animal gist a short while ago about another event in 1998. the french world cup team, the

soccer team, won that tournament and that team had a cross section of blacks, whites arabs, you name it. even back then in 1998 signaling, this is the moment, this is the breakthrough, it must all come together. it didn't come together and there were more problems since then. so that's the big question, whether this unity, this unity against terrorism and for freedom of expression, freedom of the media if that could be turned into something more concrete. that's obviously what will need to be worked on. there are a lot of large underlying issues that we've been discussing all along today here in france. there is a large unemployment. there is a large underclass. there's a section of the population a section of the arab immigrant population that is feeling very much out of this system and changing that and incorporate them back into the system is not something that can happen overnight. there is a backlash to all this something that we haven't been talking about as we looked to these rallies. the national front that's the

right wing party here who is demanding cutting down of the immigrant rolls coming into this country. in the last election they g 25% of the vote. their leader is thought to be one of the most popular political figures in france. so there are deep-seeded problems that as impressive as tonight is there are deep-seeded problems that are going to take a lot more dealing with before the problems here can be resolved, shannon. >> dr. ferris, to that point, i want to bring you in to this as well. there's been a lot of discussion about the fact that many of these immigrant populations in france and other places in europe do feel swlaomewhat disadvantaged and downtrodden. that's ripe pickings for someone who would want to radicalize them, leverage that. some won't respond but all you need is a handful, as we saw earlier this week. dr. ferris, i want to ask you about the worries that those populations that do feel so

sidelined or lacking in opportunity are often ripe ground for those who would want to exploit those feelings. >> absolutely, shannon. let me try to go a little bit deeper in this discussion because we all go on the surface and say there is frustration, economic frustration of these specific migrant or immigrant and that causes the jihadists to recruit from them. but there is something else. it is true that there is economic frustration but it is true it also exists with immigrants from eastern europe or from black africa. why is it that in these specific communities you would find a translation of this frustration into some individuals going to violence or to jihadism? because these are no-go zones. the first challenge is not going to be to solve the issue of immigration or solve the economy. that will take time. but the french government now is. front of the challenge of taking back the no-go zone. it is not just a police operation. they need to work -- this is what president sarkozy tried to do in the beginning. they need to work with leaders in these no-go zones where the

firmament of jihadism is created and there will be a renewal of leadership in these communities. only reform, only revolution within the arab community, west african and others, the way it was happening in egypt. tunisia, many of these french immigrants are coming from tunisia. a change is coming. that should follow into france. >> dr. ferris i want to ask you, too about these no-go zones. a lot of people prior to this week had not heard about this. we're familiar with some of these neighborhoods and areas in which authorities in different places across europe and elsewhere have said we will allow these communities to operate as they wish under the standards and laws and their own tenets of their specific beliefs in some of these cases and allowing those to operate autonomously outside the reach of the government. it sounds hard to believe for people who before this week didn't know about that. >> yeah. that's the shocking news for most of us here in america and

in the world, that there are areas inside a liberal democracy, a nuclear power, a member of the security council that cannot control suburbs around paris around leon, half of mar sayseilles. the problem are the streets. those who are in control of the streets are networks. it is not just the general population. according to french research -- the general population is afraid of the networks that control them. it is like the mafia in some neighborhoods here some years ago. so the french government now needs to do backed by this 1.5 million french from all walks of life and religions, is to actually do a different situation, a different policy with regard to these no-go zones. there should not be any no-go zone in france but there should and representation of everybody. >> mike baker former cia operative, i want to bring you in to talk to us a little bit about the intelligence side of

this. mike, good to have you with us today. i want to ask you specifically something else that seems baffling to a lot of folks. one of the two brothers that are responsible for the attacks, we believe, at "charlie hebdo," one of them had actually been convicted and served jail time with terror related charges. both of them were on various watch lists. they definitely on the radar of the intelligence community. so how does this happen with somebody that you're aware of you know exactly where they stand, and they've actually served time for their connections to terrorism. how do they put this together? >> well, this is one of those surprising things for all those people that buy into some of the reporting and the image of an all-knowing intelligence community around the world that spends all their time crawling up the backsides of every individual on the streets. it is just not the way it works. so you're absolutely right that the three primary individuals here, the kouachi brothers and

coulibaly, had all been on radar at one point or another and were known. but the reality is they were not under 24-hour surveillance. we talk about the sort of military precision military sophistication of these individuals, that wasn't the case. they had sufficient training. they had enough training. they had certainly enough motivation. and when you talk about trying to understand and prevent and disrupt every possible plan put out by all the variety of different types, whether it is the individual, whether it is a small group such as this that have interconnections it's just not possible. the french authorities were working within the laws that have been established there, just like here in the u.s., we can do so much, we can go up to a certain point, then the laws, the regulations that the government has enacted in the name of civil liberties and individual privacy et cetera which is very important that prevents what people assume all

the time is because of the snowden leaks and everything else, that there is this giant camera up in the sky that watches everybody and knows everything that's going on. >> dr. ferris if you're still there, i want to ask you about where we go from here given what mike has just told us about the fact that even when people are known to be some level of threat, even if they ever's served time for terror convictions, we cannot watch everyone 24 hours a day who is a potential suspect. so how much does that go to the conversation that we heard from as you and i discussed egyptian president alsisi saying to the religious community that they have some responsibility here to reform and there are calls for them to root out, no matter how small a minority it may be within their ranks but those who do call for violence, that call for death. how do we have that conversation without offending the millions of people who don't agree possibly within that same religion with those tenets of

extremism? >> well, we have always been told by our dear academic elite in the west that if you attack or criticize jihadism, you're going to have the whole muslim world against. that was proven wrong. in egypt, for example, we have always been told that the muslim brotherhood are the ones that represent the identity do not go against their will and agenda. they were even advising us in the west on how we do foreign policy -- until june of 2013 where 33 million egyptians, actually the biggest revolutions in the history of revolutions in demonstrations, told the entire world we do not agree with the muslim brotherhood. we simply were a silent majority. so the president of egypt today who was voted by the silent majority is telling the world we need to change. he has been telling this message to the actual elite of clerics and mahdis in the heart of the hearts of the university, at the vatican. in tunisia, for example,

islamists were voted out by a secular force that is now in charge. there is a movement in the region. we need to seize that be opportunity. i am very concerned that liberal democracies from washington and swla in somewhat yet in europe are not ready to build the alliance with the forces in the region. >> bringing back in former cia operative mike baker, that could be quite an alliance to build those who are willing to reform and change and to call those extremist elements out. partnering together with agencies and people they may distrust very much whether it is a foreign intelligence agency or something like the cia. >> right. you depend very heavily on human source reporting obviously, whether you are talking about trying to penetrate a cell that's based in yemen or whether you are talking about understanding what's happening in a small community perhaps in detroit, or wherever it may be, or in paris. so you need to have very solid relationships. the local, state and federal authorities, not just here but

overseas in western europe in particular work very hard to try to do that. i think the overall point is absolutely correct -- nothing changes in a significant meaningful long-term way until the muslim political and religious leaders around the world who come out after every event -- after every attack sure, you see some of the local imams or you see one of the leaders come out and talk about how they abhor it. with you it has but it has to be constant, every day of every year where they come out and ostracize the terrorist community that they claim to abhor. they are the ones that need to be able to drive that extremist community into a hole in the ground and bury it. because without their constant aggressive assistance i don't know how we get there in a meaningful way. this march is fantastic. don't get me wrong. this is a tremendous show to some degree of solidarity. but i worry tomorrow we move on or maybe we get another hashtag

campaign. what we don't have the consistent, every day beating down of the extremist community from the larger muslim community to try to stop this problem. >> yeah. and growing calls for that. katherine field is in paris and has followed this investigation as well. in this discussion we've been having about just seeing something we've never seen before on the streets of paris, is it your sense that it's the beginning of a new consideration, a new movement? do you think that -- are you sensing the passion there for a change in the way we talked about some of these issues in the past? >> i do feel that there is a movement from the grassroots for there to it be a change. i'm not yet sure that the political parties in france are united enough to be able to create the new dialogue between them all because france is a very polarized country whether it comes to politics. so i am getting that feeling. when i was out on the streets of at the rally, i got the feeling that every one was there wanting

to say this is what we're about we're about values, we're about living together, and they want that to go further. but at the same time everyone agrees that this is just the start. that a lot of people in many communities have got to do a lot of work. and while today is a day of unity, tomorrow the really hard work is done. >> can you give us a little bit more context about we're looking now live at pictures of the grand synagogue which was closed down earlier this week but where there are historic things happening. we've got israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu there. french president hollande there and others who are gathering there in a show of unity and of strength and of force. it's quite a significant place there in paris. >> reporter: it is significant. this is the grand synagogue of paris. and it was very very tragic last friday that the grand synagogue of did not have a

service on friday evening. it was the first time in 1944 that there had not been a service there. so that was very tragic. so the fact that president hollande is going privately with netanyahu and gone to the private service at the synagogue, as well as they are accompanied by muslim leaders, various muslim politicians from here and france are also there. very significant moment. also, i'm not sure if you see it in your pictures there, but they have lit 17 candles, one for each of the victims of the attack last week. some of those victims were christian, some were muslim and some were of the jewish faith. this is almost like an ecumenical service of all three faiths coming together and saying we are one together. we have the same values. >> catherine, thank you very much for your reporting there on the ground in paris. former senator evan bayh is with us in studio. we had booked him to talk about

something entirely different but i'd like to tap into your expertise, your experience since we have you here with us as we watch the synagogue live in paris. you obviously were on the hill at a time when so many of these delicate issues were being debated about balancing security security, intelligence, liberty. there are so many different things that lawmakers have to balance in putting together the perfect mix in order to ward off threats, but to recognize constitutional protections specifically here in the u.s. how do you walk that fine line given we are facing threats where people clearly want to kill as many people as they can take out with them? >> well, shannon, it is difficult. the europeans are now discovering that because of this tragedy in paris. the ultimate loss off civil liberties is a loss of your life. and so in striking the right balance, it seems to me we need to err on the side of doing those things from an intelligence perspective that allow us to track these people, to discover these plots, and to stop them before they have a

chance to kill 15 to 20 innocent people in a place like paris or here in our country, 3,000 on 9/11. at the same time, there is a role for the courts and other institutions to play to make sure that the nsa, the cia, the fbi get it right. we have to constantly re-evaluate how we do it to make sure that we protect people's lives while preserving the very essence that makes america special to begin with. >> and so often whether we are emotional and devastated by a tragic event like this like the events of 9/11 there are many who worry that there will be an extreme swing of the pendulum one way or the other because we are -- have the immediate task in front of us of making ourselves safe, of shutting down future threats. but as we see sometimes when things play out years later with the patriot act and things like that, there are fixes that need to be made. but again you get back to that tough balance. i think about reading back through the federalist papers and where alexander hamilton talked about putting together the constitution in a time of

peace with such an amazing thing because we usually only do big radical things in the heat or in the wake of a difficult tragic situation. so what do you think the conversation will be now in europe about how to handle these threats? the last reporter we had there talked about how across the political spectrum in france, there's quite a split among political parties there and she raised some questions about whether they'll be able to come together to put together some kind of response to this. >> well, tlehey do have something of a more difficult challenge in france because the muslim community has not been as integrated into their society as we have been successful in absorbing different populations then viewing themselves primarily as americans rather than has a group apart. i think their conversation will probably be similar to the one we had here ultimately. your viewers should take great comfort in the fact -- i was in the intelligence community for ten years. continue to be on an oversight

board with the cia. lawyers are involved in every significant decision that is made. multiple lawyers to make sure that the balance is struck. are they perfect? no. but we look back when we get things wrong occasionally and we try and fix it. that's why i think edward snowden was so terribly wrong. when we make a mistake, we recognize it and try and get it right. our adversaries, well, you can see what they do. they kill innocent women and children. that's their objective. there is no moral equivalency between our country and a democracy like france and those with whom we are struggling right now. >> dr. ferris, the question about moral equivalency. people are now raising concerns and questions about whether there will be a rise in islam a phobia, if there will be a backlash against the muslim community and they have great worries that those who are innocent and peaceful and view their religion that way may be

subjected to not only harsh rhetoric but possibly physical attacks. do you think that that is a legitimate concern at this point? >> well, remember after 9/11. so much was spoken and said about islamophobia and violence against pluz communities. two people were killed. both were not muslim and the american public did not understand what the threat was at the time. in france basically islamophobia, the charge, has been leveled by a network against anybody who would criticize jihadists. not the religion of islam. look at the demonstration. 1.5 million people. it has at least thousands and thousands of muslims. if there was islamophobia, there would be fights inside this demonstration. that's actually manufactured by those who want these things to happen and the most important thing is for the leadership to be clairvoyant to be clear. speeches by the president by the prime minister of france, but also here in america to

explain to the larger community what is the threat. it is not about a community. it is not about a religion. it is about an ideology and about a movement. then you're going to have everybody with you and islamophobia will disappear. >> former democratic senator evan bayh with us here in the studio. to the point about whether leaders should stand up and speak on this should we be seeing more hearing more from our own administration at this point? would it be helpful president to speak more forcefully or dedicate a specific statement or speech to this issue? >> i think it's always helpful when the president leads. i think particularly at this moment in time shannon, following up on the comments of your other guests here today, we need to reach out to the muslim community. we don't need islamophobia. we need to reach out to them and say, look, we're all in this together. you don't want this, the american public broadly doesn't want this. and the muslim community has never been more important than it is today to find out who these radicals are, to bring them to the attention of the fbi and the authorities and to help us stop these kind of attacks. so we need to remember, here at least in our country we are all

in it together because we are all americans first. >> greg palkot has been in paris covering this for us for days since the initial shots rang out there. greg, i want to bring you in and ask you about this conversation we're having about the muslim community and about the need for engagement and relationship with them. but also the call for them to root out those who don't share their peaceful view of the faith, who are extremists. what is your sense there about that particular conversation in france? >> reporter: well, shannon, just tonight we've seen some idea that the leadership of the muslim community here -- that is the important imams, the ones that are in the mosques and giving some voice public voice to the establishment of the 6 million muslims here -- are out. we've seen imams represented here tonight at this service, at the grand synagogue. again, imams of the muslim faith, together with leaders of the jewish community year

together with prime minister netanyahu, similar to those very striking scenes that we saw today at the front of that march with prime minister netanyahu walking alongside -- not quite alongside, but walking in the same line as palestinian president abbas. but back to france i mean what we're seeing here is also words coming from the mosque on friday, the word was that -- strong suggestion to the leaders were to send the message out that this is wrong and should be rejected and at least at the leadership level we are hearing that. i can't get out of my mind a conversation i had with a young muslim man maybe about 22 years old. his feeling more was fear fear of what could happen out of this, fear of what could be twisted from this. i think he was worried about a backlash but i think he was worried about radicals in his own community, too, taking this and saying ah we've achieved something, let's continue. so he had fear on both sides.

and this guy was a young kid just coming out of university. once again, it is 6 million muslims in. country. the portion we're talking about that would go into a newspaper office and slaughter 12 journalists, as well as policemen, that's a very sliver of the population. the broader message still has to be out there but we are seeing it and we've been hearing it over the last couple days here, which gives some kind of confidence to the idea that, perhaps, a message is coming through from this -- the terrible events of this week. >> just to reset for those who are joining us and wondering what they're watching here, we have been monitoring an incredible demonstration in paris called the largest in french history. people of all faiths,

backgrounds, nationalities ages, marching through the streets of paris. some estimates have it well over a million people. a number of world leaders, 40 of them at least including israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, france's president germany's chancellor angela merkel. many, many other leaders. palestinian leader mahmoud abbas. joining arms and marching through the streets together. now you're looking live at the grand synagogue in paris, the largest, i believe, in france, where leaders have gone together in unity to sit and to reflect and to speak and to listen. candles there lit for all of the innocent victims of the attacks, the various attacks in paris this week. and it's an unusual sight. this synagogue was closed down for a couple of days. didn't operate for the first time since world war ii because of the events and threats as they were playing out in paris

inspect. now people of different faiths and backgrounds gathering there to show unity protection for the community and standing for all victims, regardless of faith and background, those who are being attacked by extremists, who interestingly enough, we know that the first police officer, the french police officer who responded to the charlie hebdo killings was a muslim man. his family says he was proud to represent freedom. and they say the people who killed him were not muslims. they were terrorist who is are essentially hijacking the faith as an excuse for their mourdurderous activity. so many people standing together against this. we have a political panel in studio we had booked to talk about something differently entirely. we've been speaking with former democratic senator bayh. matt, i want to ask you do you think this will impact the conversation here -- >> absolutely. >> -- in america about how we

deal with issues not only from terrorism, but immigration and other things beyond that? >> yes. if you looked at the pictures from paris this morning, as we all did, it was shocking. and i think it makes everybody realize what's at stake. i think it changes the politics here. you talk about what's going to happen up there on the hill. you talk about what's going to happen with the new republican senate. this issue, the issue of what we're going to do at our homeland security and what we're going to do about terrorism generally will loom large over everything we do. and i think it changes the types of issues we think congress would be talking about. in some ways it's a great opportunity for both parties to come together, which is what i hope happens. maybe that will transcend to other issues like immigration in the budget and other questions. but i think the president has got to step up and lead. if he doesn't, i think there will be an angry voice that comes out of this. let's hope he doesn't choose that path. >> as an american, it was so moving to see all of these leaders and many who are die metticly opposed on a lot of big issues to literally link arms and walk through the streets of paris today. i was disappointed -- i know our

attorney general has been sent there. i didn't see him as part of the march. my understanding is he was not able to be part of it. i have to say as an american i wanted one of our top folks there showing that, yes, as one of the leading defenders of free speech in this world that we're with you. i certainly hope the french people, maybe they may not have physically seen one of our representatives, will know that today. >> i think you're right. clearly, the united states of america is the foremost free country in the world. our president right on down needs to speak on this and to lead. at the same time i find it very encouraging that other european countries, the palestinian representative and others that have not always been out front and denouncing anti-semitism and denouncing terror and that type of thing are present. perhaps this is a moment. it's sad too often it has to be borne out of tragedy but perhaps this is a moment to reconcile our differences so we can be both safe and free and not have to choose one or the other. >> matt, that's something we saw in the wake of 9/11. it wasn't as long lived as

average americans probably would have liked but it was very encouraging to see in the wake of 9/11 that there was a lot of cooperation. that people were standing together, not as a republican and democratic, an independent libertarian, just as americans. >> that's right. and i think the people of france need to know the american people really are standing with them. we know what it's like. other countries in europe have had this happen as well. there can be good things that come out of it, but all that goodness is surrounded by something evil and horrible and terrible and scary. all of your national security experts i've been talking about in various green rooms over the course of the last couple days say one thing, and they said it to you as well this will come here. there is no doubt about it. and everybody ought to be ready for that including the president of the united states. we must be ready to root these people out and take them out as they're coming our way. >> as you're looking on the screen, earlier today you see the various leaders. can you pick out many of the world's top names there, linking arms, joining together walking through the streets of paris. that was earlier today.

as estimates upward of a million people gathered. in addition now we're also showing live coverage from the grand synagogue the largest synagogue in france where there are leaders of all backgrounds and religions and nationalities gathering to show their support in solidarity with the jewish community there. dr. ferris if you're with us as well there have been accusations that across europe there has been a rise in anti-semitism. do you think that that has been underplayed, overplayed? i mean, these attackers clearly weren't just about going after jewish people, but that has been one of their targets. >> by analyzing in depth the type of anti-semitism -- there are two types in europe. the traditional one. the extreme right wing anti-semitic neo-nazi, has has always been there fought by the entire society. the other anti-semitism is more difficult. it's a jihadi-inspired

anti-semitism. speaking of paris there has been many incidents against the french-jewish community. many fled france and are now living in israel. today this regathering around the jewish community is going to give them some strength to come back or to stay in france and be part of this multicultural political gathering in france, including french atheist christians jews, mut muslims, others. i'm always concerned about the mondays and tuesdays after a sunday. what is it that the french government is going to do? will the french political parties come together and create some sort of platform with the international community and the french take the issue all the way to the united nations? will america support a french initiative at united nations? all of these are questions for mondays and tuesdays. >> let me ask you about the united nations because a lot of people don't have utmost confidence in that body to handle some of these tougher issues. when we see nations very

questionable in nature end up with seats on the human rights council and that sort of thing, there are those doubters that the u.n. would be an effective voice or body in that respect. what's your take? >> i understand that many, including many close friends to me, do not trust the united nations. we need to understand what the united nations is. it is not a government. it is not an independent organization, per se. it is made of all these governments. if the united states' mission, french mission, uk others, the majority in the security council push in the same direction, nothing could stop actions by the united nations. it's really the players. i remember having worked with the security council members ten years ago on getting siree out of lebanon. a coalition between france and the united states accepted by russia made it possible. and the syrian army left lebanon. so, you need to have a unity there. that unity can only be possible of the national governments in washington, in france, in other

places, are coming together so they could send instructions to representatives at the united nations. >> and we have two political panelists here who would have a voice. we're going to restart at the top of the hour. i'll ask you briefly for your comments, senator. obviously, both of you have had direct relationships with how the u.n. works. do you think it's a viable option at this point? >> well the u.n. tends to be decision-making by the lowest common denominator. they're well intended but not very good at doing difficult things. in is a long-term phenomenon. i would list three things we need to focus on if we want to minimize thooes these attacks going forward. it shouldn't be called the islamic state in syria, it should be called the terrorist state because that's what it is. that's number one. syria has become a petri dish for terrorists. it may very well be the ring leader of this enterprise, pledged his allegiance to isis. his girlfriend has now fled to syria, it looks like. so, i personally don't think

syria will be resolved until we get rid of assad and we need to be serious about this. we have not been so serious to date. finally, there have been a couple thousand westerners, europeans and north americans who have gone to syria to fight and now are in the process of returning home. that is very dangerous. and so the intelligence services of all these countries needs to work together to track these people and to make sure these sorts of plots don't happen. these are three specific things we need to do. i don't think the u.n. will be help with any three of them. >> thank you. i'll ask you to stand by. for those of you now just joining us we are preempting "fox news sunday" at this hour. we are life on paris. the eyes on this french city. amazing things you're seeing in the streets. millions of people we're told the number is now, that have been there today marching to remember the 17 victims who were killed in attacks by