discretionary index, this is a bay wai to bet on the recovering consumer recovery. >> but charles's tastes better. all right, guys, i want to thank you both. the cost of freedom continues right now on fox. america's job creating entrepreneurs, are they a dying breed? one week after the white house says our economy is back up a new report revealing more u.s. businesses are closing down than opening up for the first time on record. so what is killing the american dream? hi, everybody, i'm david asman we will come to "forbes on fox," let's go this in to find out with mr. capitalism, steve froshs, richard, elizabeth mcdonald, mike, it's not looking good. >> no, david it's not. entrepreneurs are a dying breed due to too many taxes and too much regulation.recovery, particularly when you have a

severe rescission business startups and take-home pay increase at a rapid rate. they are being thwarted because the policies from washington have been focused on the redistribution of wealth not the creation of wealth. >> and that's hurting, steve, the most valuable companies it's a the small companies that have the best jobs because you grow with the job, your responsibilities and salaries grow. the report's author, the head of gallop organization said the economy is never truly coming back unless we reverse the birth and death trends of american businesses. >> david, if that trend continued we would have a european tile economy which is why their growth rates lagged those of the u.s. the thing to keep in mind is the entrepreneurial spirit is alive live. we have 30 under 30. hundreds of young people doing amazing things in numerous areas of our life. what's happening with a stifling of the entrepreneurial spirit and it's only temporary. when we make changes on money,

damages and barack obama which will happen in the next three years. >> i pray that steve is right, however, you think of the costs of all the regulation we've had over the past six years. over a trillion dollars well over a trillion dollars in costs and then it's this spirit that is being killed as well. >> oh, yeah. >> the spirit of enterprise. >> i'm so glad you said that the genius of america is the genius of the entrepreneurial spirit and, you know, more and more washington is becoming like envy empowered that somewhere somebody is successful and this inflamed egoism that the president and the administration and congress can put the government on this kind of miracle gro government course, a lot of government spending, so, you know, david, i will tell you something, look at the stats particulars, you're absolutely right. since a regulatory state starts to balloon you saw the net job creation of small businesses drop by half since 1999.

and net business formation from the little guys strop drop. they're the ones that create jobs. >> rick, it's the little guys that are close to the community, that give the american people the spirit that things are are getting better. am fact we just did a poll on fox news showing that 64% of the people still believe we're in a recession. isn't this a part of it? >> it probably is a part of it. i do think this is a bit of a lagging indicateorindicator, i'd be slightly slightly cautious. if we're significant here a year from know we would have a reason to worry. it's temporary a result of some very difficult years in the economy. i think by this time next year -- >> i hope it's temporary but we can see it's a long-term trend, rich. the gallop organization went back to the 1970s that's when they started this thing. since they started we are now seeing the worst record of new jobs starting up than ever. >> well david think about who becomes an entrepreneur.

you know, an entrepreneur is driven by wanting to show that they're right. you know that they can build a product or service and create customers and make a profit from it. nobody starts out being an entrepreneur so that they can say, now i get to hire accountants and now i get to hire compliance officers and now i get to hire lawyers. and the burden for accounts ants and compliance officers and lawyers just keeps ratcheting up. it's this ratchet effect that you're seeing. >> and, john tannedy that's precisely why the congress just passed something they called the regulatory accountability act, it's a republican bill in the house, but they did get 19 democrat tick congress men could go along with them. and this is an attempt the president by the way has said he's going to veto this measure even though before he said he was for fewer regulations. >> that would be a bad idea. steve is right the entrepreneur is not dead what we have is a problem of investment. there are no entrepreneurs

without capital, but when investors commit capital to new ideas they are buying future dollar income streams. so it's no surprise that modern times the birth of companies has declined with the president bush and a president obama both seeking devaluation of the dollar, but the good news is once we reverse that you'll see entrepreneurialism flower again into mike, again, nobody is saying it's dead, entrepreneurial spirit is a part of american culture. you look at friends and the trend is not good. >> that's right. what we need to reverse that trend, david, is something that we saw with president kennedy and then later with president reagan. they sharply cut barge nl tax rates which is the tax you pay on that kpr dollar of income and those tax cuts were permanent. so as john points out people that were then investing capital knew that going forward in the long run they were going to earn an extra return and then, therefore, were going to hire people and therefore pay more. that's what we need today. >> steve, that's a great point and in fact the club for growth

which is a free market organization out there has sort of challenged the president by saying, hey, look, if you're only interested in can you get corporate taxes, that's not good enough for the american people. they want all of their taxes to go down. including personal taxes. >> well that's right. it's got to be across the board, kennedy understood it ronald reagan understood it, we have to, too, david, get the run right. the federal reserve has created a credit market that's been bad for small businesses, you combine that with the regulations from president obama care and there's no wonder we've been stalling. >> regulations are a tax, right. >> they are a big tax on small business formation and big tax on the businessperson's wallet. time and again we see the government reacting with the regulatory work force to fix crises, look at dodd-frank when really it's about a failure of the imagination within the government. we see that federal reserve chairman has said that all the time, they overreact and really

slam businesses with aloft rules. >> rich, you have written a lot over the past couple of decades about the blooming of entrepreneurialship in america with the reggen revolution, that was because of tax cuts but regulatory kputs were very much a part of that ref lulgs, weren't they? >> of course, i live in silicon valley and silicon valley lives in a different world where there's still capital and people are creating billion dollar enterprises but that's not the case for most of the country or world. the real question we have to ask ourselves is why is it so heart to start say, a hair salon? why should that be a heavily regulated industry. >> that's what this bill that congress just passed is about, making it easier for the smaller guys to deal with this number of -- by the way rick would you be one of those 19 congress men who signed on with the republicans to cut regulations or would you be with the president who is going to veto that bill. >> i haven't heard the bill yet, how is that for a political

answer? look, i hear what you're all saying. i get it. but i'd be a little bit cautious. i think next year you're going to see a mega rebirth of brurnlism in this country and i'm going to remind you then. >> listen, we're all for it. let's hope it perhaps. meanwhile, taking to social media, using attacks in paris to recruit homegrown terrorists in the u.s., how to stop it right now next. daughter: do you and mom still have money with that broker? dad: yeah, 20 something years now. thinking about what you want to do with your money? daughter: looking at options. what do you guys pay in fees? dad: i don't know exactly. daughter: if you're not happy do they have to pay you back? dad: it doesn't really work that way. daughter: you sure? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab.

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. this is a fox news alert i'm kelly wright reporting to you about a breaking if you say situation developing in florida. we're getting word of a soogt at a mall in mel born, florida. police are on the scene right now and we're getting more details as we get them. we understand that a shooting took place in the food court, we are also hearing reporting the reports that the police have control of this situation and they're going from store to store and actually have the gunman contained. we will bring you more updates

as soon as we find out more details. >> meantime chilling details about that terror raid in belgium tuesday. reports say those men had police uniforms in their hideout along with assault rifles, explosives and fake ids. in total more than two dozen terror suspects were arrested in raids throughout europe. i'm kelly wright, i'll see you at 1:00 p.m. eastern with julie band res. a crack down on terror in belgium. police hunting down would be terrorists in france more than 50 people arrested including a comedian for a facebook post that sympathize as they say with the paris attackers. here in america we're seeing new efforts by isis to recruit homegrown terrorists on social media. so emac you say it's time for facebook and triter to do more. >> they should do more to block out the bad guys. they don't have a good system to

police it, they rely on users, people to use their social media accounts to do the policing for them. they like to call themselves the town square but you don't have people pouring into the square saying chop off people's head. twitter and you tube and facebook they don't have the people policing it. i say for now block it. >> and, rich speaking of the police that nypd cop killer actually posted some stuff on instagram, the famous putting winds on pigs on ins gram before and we weren't alerted to it. >> yeah but i don't know practically speaking how you could block all of this stuff. if you take just twitter as one example, there are between 500 million and 1 billion tweets her day, facebook has about a billion and a half monthly users. so the numbers are enormous. the really serious terrorists are going to use some kind of coded language anyway. >> carrie, rich says it's

impossible to do it. >> i disagree. we know it's possible, for example, with speaker boehner, he said specific credible threats on his live that were made, police apprehended the people that were doing it, they had weapons this was a very dangerous problem. we can monitor, create al gore rhythms, capture people before it gets into the real world. >> which, steve, is apparently what happened with that guy that was threatening boehner. >> the thing is in terms of if you get a threat if somebody has a threat against me i've got things pointed out right away, but to have facebook or twitter try to police it i mean, isis does not have isis.org where they say what they're going to do each day or al qaeda.com. so you need nsa and others to have patterns where they can detect bad things. to have those organizations do it you're going to get campus code speech codes on steroids. >> but john, on the other hand, the boston bombers were one group that learned how to use their bombs from a website

apparently, they learned how to create one of their bombs, their deadly bombs, by the way, from one of these jihady websites. >> and it's track jij but there's no way in the world we live you're going to keep information getting to other people. there's all sorts of inflammatory rhetoric on the internet but 99.999% of it never leads to violence. so the idea that we can somehow block out the certain few that are going to communicate on it is just not a credible concept. you're not going to succeed in reducing terrorism by blocking the internet. >> when we see a website like the stuff that inspire, that al qaeda website has that tells you how to make bombs, should we leave that up for the nuts to use it and kill people? >> actually i think we should and here is why. i think terrorism is so complicated because it's this weird mix of sort of this savage beheadings and awful violence that's mixed with social media and technology and the fact that

they're able to get their message out there via these new plat orms and as a country that is based on civil liberties and free speech this is fli complicated for us to navigate. it actually allows you to better thwart these things before they happen. all of the examples that everyone has been giving are ways that we've been able to stop terrorism. we have the cia that's been tracking this for years and years, the terrorists know this but they continue to chatter. >> hold on a second. i love sabrina to death but when i hear anybody say it's too complicated i think of the washington and the ivy league brains that actually avoid the simple truth, isn't it a little simpler. >> it's a roll of the dice to rely on krur bureaucrats who didn't see the housing crash or.com cash coming and didn't see 9/11 coming. listen, law enforcement here and overseas repeated warn that cyber jihadists are out there recruiting on the internet.

don't leave it up to twitter. they should work in collaboration to catch and stop these guys. you don't just have it on social media and or internet. law enforcement always collaborating with companies to stop the bad guys from killing and murdering people. >> also another new york city case, the guy who attacked a cop with a hatchet apparently he was posting things as well. they're tell graphic us messages, shouldn't we use those tell graphs? >> yeah but as steve points out i think that's an issue for the nsa and other organizations not for facebook and twitter and, remember, these vile organizations do not have their servers in the united states they're elsewhere. so, you know, this is a very complicated problem. >> there's that word complicated again. again, if we leave it to the nsa, i always think that the government even if they're hot shots in the government are always a couple of steps behind the people that are working for facebook or instagram, carrie. >> if it's complicated that

means we need all hands on deck, we need citizens stepping up, playing a role working with the nsa, working with law enforcement. it sounds like defeat it on this panel. we can put a man on the moon, we can catch people on twitter. >> last word from steve. >> as rich pointed out when 1 billion, 2 billion tweets and messages each day try to figure out and come up with patterns that are going to be foolproof i guarantee you 99% of them are going to be false leads. >> i said, steve, but sabrina i heard you wanting to chime in. nothing is foolproof, but can't we at least do better than what we're doing? >> sure, there are algorithms that people can can do the question is do we actually want to. i think we want to be careful that we don't have these companies going down a slippery slope. what else are they supposed to be monitoring for? kid fapg or other domestic violence? i don't know. >> the "cashin' in" gang getting ready to roll out at the bottom of the hour, eric what do you have coming? >> hey, david, craze yees traveling overseas to train and

fight with terrorists then coming back home. time to revoked their citizenship to protect our lives and economy. >> plus a painful level for taxpayers, the president's free college plan ain't so free after all. >> up here first, democrats pushing for a new tax to pay for a middle class tax break, some of you are saying it's going to backfire and break the piddle class even more. you just got a big bump in miles. so this is a great opportunity for an upgrade. sound good? great. because you're not you you're a whole airline... and it's not a ticket you're upgrading it's your entire operations, from domestic to international... which means you need help from a whole team of advisors. from workforce strategies to tech solutions and a thousand other things. so you call pwc. the right people to get the extraordinary

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branch out with a new plan to tax the rich to give the middle class a break, but will it just break the middle class even more and the steady stocks to keep your money from

well, democrats are pushing a new $1.2 trillion tax plan

that critic are calling a redistribution plan, it offers the middle class a tax credit, paid by new taxes on the wealthy, steve you say this plan is going to hurt the middle class instead. >> how it all is redo the shares on the it deck of the titanic when the economy is sinking. the fact of the matter you need pro growth measures reagan understood it, kennedy understood it lowering tax rates all across the board, having a stable dollar, none of the your honor certainty around obama care. what it tack is going to do hurt people's 401(k)s, hurt start ups, they're not going to have capital. they don't get to the real cause of this wage stag nation. >> rick we have had six years of taxing the rich more and all it has led to is the rich getting richer and the middle class getting poorer. in fact the top 5% they've seen their income go up nicely, almost 9% since 2009, the immediate yap folks, have gone

down 5% and that's with tax increases on the rich. >> clearly the rich have gotten richer which makes see wonder why we're going being to concerned. >> because we're interested in the middle class. that's why we're concerned. >> what's bothering a lot of people about this proposal is that it would be available to people up to 1 hundred thousand dollars. we all know that one you're in congress you start high, you negotiate down. this won't end up a tax credit for people earning that much money. also, keep in mind that we have often done this, we do it if you have kids you get tax credits, there are many things society will do to help people out during a rough time. >> but sabrina the thing is they say it's a paycheck bonus tax. it's a free check from the government. how many times have we heard that before? >> right. it's a free check from the american taxpayers. once again, as john always says the government doesn't have any resources of its own. i'm wondering once in a while i start to think that this might be the least creative administration that we've ever seen. all they do is redistribute

money, the most notable example is obama care and once again we're seeing this and as steve said we really need a pro growth system in which we streamline the tax system allow for policies that are going to encourage economic opportunity and allow the middle and lower income families to take care of themselves. >> we've had six years a long enough period of trying redistribution to realize it doesn't work. >> listen, this tax is a middle class tax, this tax break is a middle class tax hike. open secret on wall street that wall street would pass this along to 401(k) mutual funds and iras in the form of higher fees. >> mike would it help or hurt the middle class? >> it would hurt the middle class, david. i would have loved to have been in the room when they thought of this. we've had a terrible economy, i know, let's punish successful

people us because we want less of them. we'd have a country where there would be a lot fewer people earning $100,000 or more. that's it. >> meanwhile, getting beat up an up and down market get in on safe stocks to buy right now. that's coming up. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you have enough money to live life on your terms? i sure hope so. with healthcare costs, who knows. umm... everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor.... can get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today.

. and we are back with steady stock picks this this very shaky market. emac you've got a fund that invests in big companies. >> pnc large cap, sweet double digit run. >> so what do you think, mike. >> great took but too expensive. >> all right. water, we know that the world needs more of it you've got a company that deals with it. >> sjw, david, they're a water utility. if you're thirsty for dividends buy this stock. they increase their dividend like clockwork. >> i would put a little money in this dividend play is a sweet one right now with a ten year

bond yield dropping so dividend stocks are a great look see. >> emac and mike like this. that's it for "forbes on fox." have a wonderful weekend. keep it right here, the number one business block continues with eric bolling and "cashin' in." the terrorist next door, we stopped this guy but guess what the president obama administration saying your neighbor's kid can train with terrorists, keep his citizenship and come back. time for the white house to wake up before new york l.a. or dallas look like paris. plus, get ready to get hosed at the pump while gas prices fall and lawmakers want to reach into your pocket for a bigger gas tax. and then. >> we're still paying for it. so is it really free, then? >> the president's free college plan dents asking if it's really free. with he do the