>> it is a terrorist army and a savage march. but who is isis? they combine viciousness on the ground with a supremacy of social media. >> trying to create the largest caliphate it can. >> it spread even further to libya where they beheaded 21 christians on the banks of the mediterranean sea. what do we know about the man wearing a wrist watch who says he is the rightful... >> a shadowy presence for long. >> how he is using a former catholic student from the boston area to spread propaganda. >> why do you think they keep attacks of terrorism. >> it controls an area the size

of candace. is there a strategy to beat them? >> you understand the strategy to beating them? >> i think -- sduh, uh. >> they are the richest on earth. >> it is hell on earth and the world continues to witness their cruelty and viciousness. isisen it is to gain ground in iraq. now where else are they spreading sfwh>> all over the world. we have isis elements in the philippines working with ab d due -- abu sayyaf. we have them in yemen, in south africa. you have them all over the stands. they now proclaim they have people who defected in the taliban in afghanistan. it is not what we are seeing on the news and iraq in syria it is spreading all over the sunny

world. he is claims he is the savior of sunni islam. it is a thousand year war in which we are caught in the middle and they still kill fellow sunnis like the jordanian pilot. o >> under line all of this, it is not in any way getting smaller or staying as is. this is expanding. >> we heard after the murder of the jordanian pilot this was going to go far. it 2 turned them against them. >>al baghdadi not only goes out and kills people they put it up as propaganda he also puts out proclamation of he is the answer

to the expansionism of sheet islam -- shi'ite islam. we have seen the rest of it most people thankfully have not. they are all over the middle east africa and parts of south asia. they have seen that whole video. that is a recruitment tool for foreigners to come joyin their cause. >> you asked how isis came about. let's take a look. >> isis clearly is one of the terrorist groups. it is a territorial jihadist state. >> he has a ph.d. in islamic history and serves as an arabic speaking specialist. oop oo unlike al qaeda they are focused on the near enemy trying to create the largest caliphate it can in particularly the arab middle east and includes much of the territory of syria and iraq. isis effectively erased the

border between the two countries. >> the islamic state bases the claim on the caliphate on really two main things in many ways a literal reading of the koran and hadiths the traditions or sayings that go back to mohammed. the first islamic state in the 7th century. >> they mean all of the part of islam. >> professor of meredith in near eastern from the foremost middle east scholars. >> they see the lands as being invaded and occupied by none muslims. >> the militant jihadis are led by 43-year-old abu bakr al-baghdadi. their goal to drive out infidels from the lands where islam reigned for centuries. >> the last caliphate is the ott monday one was established

before world war i. they think they are recreating that. they think their caliphate which is arab which is more legitimate than the ottoman caliphate was. they clearly believe the only legitimate religious belief is their particular harsh brand of sunni islam. any one who holds any other enos tense i bely muslim is liable to death or certainly exile. >> isis submerged from al qaeda or qi. abu zawahri started jihad. >> during operation iraqi freedom zawahri came the head of aqi that led coalition forces on the streets of fallujah from alkine. isis has been able to eclipse al qaeda primarily because they rule the state.

they are not hiding caves in the margins of the islamic world. they have a lot of fellows with jihad, some afghanistan, many against our forces and iraqi government forces in iraq and many in syria. they put all of these together. when you add those to the fact that you states has not been there in any force for several years. >> the terrorist army of isis is estimated to have more than 30,000 fighters from 70 countries. the way they achieve the goals is terrific. >> it imposes strict sharia such as amputations for stealing, crucifixions for apostasy, as we know beheadings. isis clearly refers to the two different passages in the koran that refer to the beheading of unbelievers on the battlefield. >> all indications show many if not all isis fighters have a

fanatical belief in fighting to the death. >> they have in many ways, general dempsey said this a few weeks ago an apocalyptic viewpoint. isis clearly is talking about end of time battles, armageddon type battles. >> so isis is still on this quest to establish a caliphate. now it is using 21st century technology with the highest level production to tear ri terrorize. now they are using high production of all of the videos. >> social media has been the life blood pouring gasoline on the fire of self radicalization. they are using the execution of the jordanian pilot takes it to another level. it is 22 minutes long has multi layers of video, audio and the final scene at the execution.

it has a video game type feel to it. i think one of the things these guys have decided to do is to attract not just your average camel hearder. they are looking at someone to take organization a part of it. relatively well educated people who are technologically aware. they can pick up and do things with a blackberry or iphone or one of those devices and see essentially the history they have made. >> how isis is using yelp reviews earthquakes and naked celebrities to recruit new members and terrorists to the battlefield.

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>> how is isis combining vicious murders with social media savvy like we have never seen before? here is katherine herridge. >> to understand isis it is a look at how propaganda is involved in 9-11 with social media. they used 19 men and four hijacked airplanes to kill nearly 3,000 people in new york city the pentagon and in shanksville, pennsylvania. >> we have been traveling around the united states. >> from southern california it was adam gudan who emerged as the english speaking spokesperson for al qaeda network. he is still missing and has a million dollar reward on his head. as fox news reported extensively it was this dual citizen of yemen and america who went from being invited as a luncheon

guest at the pentagon after 9-11 to a digital recruiter in al qaeda. fox news reported on the cleric for years. u.s. citizen anwar awlaki was linked to the failed times square bombing the underwear bomber that attempted to blow up a plane and a massacre at fort hood which killed 13. >> he was killed in yemen in 2011 by a predator hell fire missile. but he lives on through this man's abdullah shay even after spending time in a yemeni present on behalf of al-awlaki he announced his support for caliphate press to nearly 10,000 followers on twitter. he tweeted this photo of himself with awlaki. they have taken it to social media to a whole new level. >> they use all platforms everything from facebook to

twitter to yelp restaurant recommendations in syria. because they use all of these different platforms they get a lot of access to the younger set. >> richard rin noeldz is a retired army officer investigating terrorists and network of contact. >> we see perhaps as many as 125 different languages being used by isis and isis accounts. >> people may not have homes or jobs or cars, but every one has a phone. >> right. you know, isis has a media center. >> seems to me that isis almost has a rapid response team an event happens they have got their message up where as the old style al qaeda can sometimes take weeks to respond. >> isis also hijacks big news events on-line using a sophisticated media center believed to be based in their strong hold of esyria.

investigators are analyzing the execution videos. >> the media center in syria, this is like a digital network. it is almost like a tv station if you will. >> they have the ability to move cameras, lighting, sound into an os tier situation, do the deed without being molested, nobody is dropping bombs on them or observing them over head move them back to their fixed facility media center still get them on the web in a matter of minutes. they have the capability to get get the money to do it. >> do they have training? >> maybe former journalists. >> there are some suspicions that some people in the music industry is helping them with music and sound maybe with executions.

>> 33-year-old american from the boston area now on the fbi's most wanted terrorist list. >> he was born in france. he speaks multiple languages. he can appeal again across multiple language platforms. >> this is what isis is doing on-line now. >> we will see them taking hash tags and sending out their material. >> looking at what is trending in the u.s. and they are hijacking that. they did that with the nude celebrity pictures jennifer lawrence that whole group. >> how quickly can some kid in st. louis make a decision make contact and go to syria. >> days, hours. >> we will see somebody that will read a social media entry it resinates with them they go out and take their mom and dad's credit card buy an airplane ticket fly off to turkey or jordan or lebanon. >> joining us is the director of

homeland security at george washington university. he is a former specialist assistant to president george w. bush on homeland security issues. why do you think isis negotiates with the turn of the jordanian pilots when he had been killed almost a month earlier. >> it is propaganda at the end of the day there was never a legitimate attempt to negotiate or even try to raise the ransom. this is propaganda. it was primarily aimed probably to raise some of the voices to over throw king abdullah in jordan. looks like it may have blown back and had the opposite effect similar to the zarqawi bombing at a jordanian wedding where he thought that may have turned some of them from the jordanians. it had the opposite effect. i hope that is the same here. >> what is interesting is isis can use it to their advantage

but it also works against them. it works against them in a subtle way with the jordanian pilot. it describes how the pilot was sited in the strong hold of assyria being paraded through the streets in the cage. there was another piece of twitter traffic toward the end of january that showed the japanese hostages are already dead and the video is on the way to production. these are clues in fact the hostages were dead and isis was not negotiating in good faith. >> they were not intended to. it was bogus from the get go. >> obviously they wanted it to come out at a specific time. that is what they did released it when they were ready to do so. ifr i think there has been blow back from jordan certainly in what we have seen the last few days. i am not sure there's blow back in the rest of the world. the universe are 120 different

languages they do sub titles, chyrons. are people in abu saeff between philippines motivated to go off and try something on their own. not that they are going to coordinate it but inspiring people to go out and commit these are the kinds of actions if you are on the winning side you can do these kinds of things and the infidels and her ticks can't stop it. >> at the end of the day they are escalating. at the end of the day think of spammers. you could send a million messengers. >> we have heard from people this week on capitol hill is the view that whatever happens next this etch sewed has raised the stakes for the western hostages. >> coming up the cold acalculatd leader of isis. there are some surprises. that's next. thththththth

>> who is the leader of isis. usually we know about the viciousal baghdadi. (speaking foreign language) >> little is known about the wanted terrorist 43-year-old abu back ar al baghdadi. he has a bounty on his head. in july he made a rare public appearance in a mosque in mosul iraq wearing an expensive watch he calmly cleaned his teeth before speaking to a cap fif

audience. he went on a 15-minute rant. >> >>al baghdadi termed himself the caleb which means successor to mohammed. >> when his sermon was posted on-line it was the first time many followers ever laid eyes on him. >> (speaking foreign language) >> aal baghdadi was ibrahim alad and al samari and that part of iraq. he is an islamic scholar evenly though some ridiculed credentials. >> it has been a shadow eye

appearance. >> he was a cia case officer in the middle east. >> there were questions asked as to whether or not he really exi existed. he was sometimes confused with another high value target who led al qaeda in iraq who was killed. >> they have been in the battle of fallujah when the marines had the hamlet of fallujah in 2004, 2005. he is reportedly in u.s. custody in iraq from 2005 to 2009. the prison camp located in southeast iraq was named at ronald buca a new york city fire marshal killed in 9-11. he turned over authority to iraqis he was improperly let go in 2009. details are sketchy about what happened next. >> we know al qaeda as a great amount of autonomy within those camps in iraq. they kept their command structure. they were ordering and planning

attacks from inside custody. in the years following his release baghdad did i climbed the ranks in eye can ra. later the group rebranded itself as isis. >> he clearly leap frogged ahead of al qaeda by declaring a territorial state. something that has empowered isis in many ways the islamic state to really now lay claim to being the chief terrorist organization in the world. >> back to the panel. why don't we know more about baghdadi. why can't we get more information we know we want him. >> he has been forecast to have been killed and wounded. certainly he is not dead certainly if he is wounded esz still getting around. we have zero humans, human intelligence does not exist inside this organization.

>> they have learned how to communicate without getting on a cell phone or satellite. we don't have our own people on the ground any more as eyes and ears. we became reliant on the iraqis. the administration has gotten out of the interrogation business in serious ways gotten into business of killing operatives with drones. you have at that intelligence vacuum as well. >> these are hard targets as colonel north said we have star gets. while we have means to collect on the targets they are invading our counter measures because of the government individuals hiding and in part there are a lot of dead terrorists learning from their mistakes. it is a little bit of a cat and house all source intelligence but ultimately it will save the

human source to get inside the human making chains of these organizations. i was going to add based on preliminary conversations one is the old hat tricks in iraq under sadam hussein has a series of look alikes so they never knew where the target was. i wouldn't be surprised if we have a similar scenario with do you spend the money there? you get your 10 million where is the incentive? where do you spend it? >> what is the incentive for us to get human intelligence to break bad on his side. >> the predecessors are fingered by those who want to zarqawi. we went to u.s. forces group and they plotted to where he was. he was it with the hell fire missile. it was a human intelligence. same thing with our friend alabama can ---al wacky.

>> bin laden was the doctor. >> as katherine said we are also being spoofed. spoofing is a false message. in other words, they got zarqawi. or they got dag daddy or they got -- in other words, many times they are putting out things that are not true just to see where we are picking up and how we react to it. >> we are taking a closer look at the isis media wings which has american investigates

isis. >> who is one of the pr gurus of isis? we found out about a man from boston. >> should consider him to be armed and dangerous.

he is a threat to the nation. >> he was charged in the boston bombing investigation. he put a catholic school boy on the fbi's most wanted terrorist list. >> these are individuals who reside in the u. united states who are radicalized on their own often times through access to jihad materials. >> is he head of the propaganda machine if so it wouldn't be the first time until he was killed by a drone in yemen samir khan led the magazine "inspire." it has the own american pr guru a 33-year-old. >> typical middle class neighborhood suburbs of boston not too far away from the patriots. >> the end chronologist joe darn,he leshg. >> catholic school not too far

away he comes over here for his senior year. we don't know why he left but we know he graduated here in stoten. >> he fit in he didn't strike her as being out of the ordinary too much. >> studies computer science for three semesters here at northeastern university. during this time period authorities belief he became radicalized. he and jihad friends would spend their saturday night watching propaganda videos and plotting to be part of the action. >> post 9-11 they start to hate america. >> he traveled on several occasions overseas. his first travel was in april of 2002 when he traveled to pakistan for purposes of seeking out military training. >> they failed in their first attempt so they returned to the u.s. to try to kill at home. according to the court records 2003 abu summer and associates plotted an attack on civilians

in a shopping mall. they conspired to assassinate condoleezza rice and john ashcroft. again they failed. >> on or about february 13th, 2004, traveled to the fallujah area of iraq. >> there he may have made an important connection. >> he was in fallujah at the same time we believal baghdadi was in fallujah. >> what about back in boston? as first reported eight known terrorists attended this came privile bridge mosque a point the mosque denies. >> is there any information you can give us about this guy? >> you don't remember seeing him? >> no. not a clue. >> why do you think the mosque keeps ending up attached to terroris terrorism? >> nobody knows. this is a mosque. everybody is welcome. >> after his jihad tour abu samr

completes his science degree at uk ma-- u mass. they started translating on-line messages from bin laden's inner circle. >> by 2006 they initiated the investigation and spoke with him. >> the co conspirators would have code words like peanut butter around jelly by jihad. >> what are you doing? >> making peanut butter and jelly. >> he fled overseas to an area we believe to be syria. >> in 2012 he was convicted in a federal court in boston and is serving 17 years. he refused a request for an interview. >> in december 2013 he was elevated to the fbi most wanted terrorist list. >> if found anywhere on the planet they are going to grab

him. >> he tried to track down his father who moved to detroit after his son fled to boston. they believe the doctor moved to syria. we did find him employed at a university in qatar. once again we hear about mern links to isis. why do we this dual passport problem? >> for a long time foreign fighters have been a challenge. these are westerners fighting overseas in jihad conflict zones. we have 150 americans fighting along isis and other jihadist organizations in iraq and syria. we have seen it in the past in afghanistan and pakistan in terms of the fonta region but nowhere to the scale and scope we are seeing today. 20,000 people. >> the difference now is because of social media and facebook and all of these other vehicles people can make contact. in a matter of days can go from ohio to the front lines in

syria. we spoke with a former member of the u.s. military. he went to the region in four-days he got over there. he said once he was there all of his skills were vetted to figure out which pot he served the best in tech coulding lnological skiy skills. he said the same pattern was being done by the terrorist group. >> not so much ohio to syria. learn more about syria coming back to ohio. what are we doing about that? >> seems to me given the technology today a way of identifying who flew to turkey disappeared and flew back to turkey. in the aftermath we have found out where they were. in other words, that data was there. >> after the fact. it is not where they were we need to know where are they and where are they going? >> if we knew after the fact where they were why don't we know where they are now?

>> the systems are there. this is a country had a has -- we have the internet. why can't we use it to say this guy has been to turkey disappeared for two or three weeks came back to paris. stepped aside. ask him what were you doing, where were you? that's not being done. the brothers who came back from chechnya have been under surveillance by the russians. they told us how can it be? in other words, somebody is dropping the ball. >> facilitating and keeping track of terrorist travel is an area our community is trying to get its arms around. a happily negotiated is pnr. they didn't want to maintain that data for privacy issues. finally they are finding there is real value in that. a lot of knees guys unlike when they were trying to get to yemen or somalia they have to fly to

canada and get over. you are literally going to europe and you are a bus ride away from the turkish border and you are slipping across. the wree ality is if the turks even if we had all of that data i don't have confidence they kept track of that and their borders are there. >> the turks told us within 24-hours the girlfriend of one of the perp trierts is already in sere -- perpetrators were already in syria. >> i think if there is any one who can address this it is the turks. >> i was going to say a year ago you would have never imaged the british government would propose stripping their people of passports if they had gone to syria. this seems to be their broad response to this problem. i think the discussion is not far off from this country at as well. >> isis terrorists do take money. how do they get it and can we

stop their cash flow. that's coming up. {off-lin

>> sis sis has hundreds of millions of doll lashes how did they become the richest terrorist organization? i sat down with the treasury

department he has followed terrorist money trails for more than a decade. >> nice to see you. >> pleasure to be here. >> where is isis getting its money? >> some of the money from resources with controlling territory. the biggest is oil which we used to think was getting as much as 2 million a day then rolled back to a million maybe under a million. half a million dollars a day i would take that paycheck. that's a lot of money. they are getting funds not as much as al qaeda but some through major donors in the gulf. they have always been primarily financed through localized crime in iraq always meaning isis today is what al qaeda fwh iraq, the zarqawi met cork all of the same thing. even back in 2005, 2006, 2007 the primary funding for the insurgency was and continues to be today through localized crime kidnapping through political obstruction and et cetera. we have tools even if we decide

to implement them to deal with the oil they are smuggling across the border. >> what was the reason for having senormous ransom figure. they wanted 130 million american dollars and if they have all of this oil money coming in it never got that kind of money. many some countries pay ransom money but not going to get 100 million from any country. >> some people think they weren't in it for the money at all. the united states has a no ransom policy anyway. this was an exaggerated figure because they didn't entinned to ransom them off. >> the oil they have were selling on the black market. if oil is selling for $105 a barrel but they are selling them for 660 a barrel most people $60 a barrel will look pretty good. >> some others are selling 50 to $55 a barrel.

turks in particular pay so much for gas there is supply and demand a market. you can find someone who can get the oil you will be able to find people to smuggle it and buy it in turkey. this ef to drive them across the border and work with middle men in syria and turkey. we ways of targeting them law enforcement treasury designations and military capability if they are going acrostic layer crossings with the trucks. >> you say there are ways to doing it why aren't we doing it if we need to shut them down for the money. >> this was a political decis n decision. they said they were going to tackle isis. one of the things they are going to be doing is targeting the money with the oil hopefully that will start. we keep saying how we are going to do it only on the iraq side of the border not the syrian side of the border. that is like squeezing a balloon. if we don't we are not going to get very far. >> how does the world fight the growing threat and who wins?

that's next.

>> it ends with respect to isil needs to be the lasting defeade. >> doesn't sound like a strategy to me. >> who is the key to defeating isis? does a coalition work? two tough questions. >> we had information recently on capitol hill isis is becoming very much like al qaeda in the sense that they have affiliated or branch operations outside of iraq and syria. the three countries identified algeria, libya and also egypt.

you can see it has begun to spread almost like a cancer i would argue a con netic solution to this it has become a battle of ideas and we have to not be afraid to engage in this battle of ideas. >> we have to change the idea of people getting killed. >> quite honestly to paraphrase it's the ideology. it is met it's sizized. we have seated the battlefield to the jihadists. we can either collect intelligence as we need to do than those leaving social media to travel overseas we can shut some of it down to try it put it in the margins make it more difficult for people to put their hands on this material or we can push back. quite honestly we haven't pushed

back. >> there is a wonderful opportunity to get the jordanians on the step further than they did. >> if we have flown 1700 missions or thereabouts and the coalition partners he dropped out they have thrown 170. nothing shows commitment and sincerity quite so well as a carrier battle group in a marine air ground task force. we don't have any in the mediterranean now. we need to put them there. you are saying we are not showing the commitment to other nations to make them want to injo the coalition. >> you have to december vow the will to fight for isis. it is different if you are drafting a kid and making him fight. he's never going to fight as well as the committed jihadist and came to syria because they want to join that. that little to fight has to be destroyed. the only way to do that is by

kinetic means. finally intelligence we have to make end roads to the sunni tribes in iraq and syria. they are there. we need to show them we are mitted and stay the course. for heaven sakes don't do some deal with iranians that tells everybody on the sunni side of the world we are on their side. >> i was going to say isn't this the big picture question here? the cancer is in syria. but it seems to me every policy decision right now in the white house is driven by their desire to get a deal with iran and this effects how they are responding to the problem in syria. because they don't want to upset that apple cart because syria is alive with tehran. >> the intelligence community's moral is what at this point? big zero from -- >> it is terrible. >> i think people who have been on this issue and i hesitate to speak on their behalf but they

are dedicated to the issue but they are frustrated that when the information has been presented in a very clear way, there has been a denial of the facts on the ground and that means you cannot tackle the problem. >> at the end of the day we are talking about unand under governed spaces. we are not contesting those spaces. it is going to require all instruments of stay graft jordanians have been a huge component of that next to israel or closest ally in the region. >> we ought to be advertising ourselves as the greatest nation on earth. you are freer here than anywhere else in the world. we don't do that any more. all of the things we used so effectively the soviets they are still there we just don't use them. >> thank you panel and thank you for joining us tonight. if you want to learn more about isis go to greta wire.com.

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the enemy pushes on with a ruthless pursuit and new threats against the west. american shopping malls targeted in a video circulating now but reportedly not from isis but an al qaeda spin off group. we watch a war over words in the united states. today fresh reaction as the head of homeland security doubled down backing president obama, refusing to call out the enemy by name, radical islamist. when asked about it on fox news sunday homeland security secretary jay johnson said this debate only takes away from the fight against terror and linking