and friends for our after the show show. we'll be here tomorrow morning. >> bye, everybody. accuse isis sympathizers arraigned here. another terror group teaming up with isis over there. and a war tax. do we need a tax hike to take down the terrorists? hi i'm brenda buttner. this is "bulls and bears." here they are. our bulls and bears this week. welcome to everybody. a thome pri war tax to fund our fight against isis? >> no a temporary tax? there is no such thing. once they get a tax in place it

never goes away. i know how you find the money. eric holder says medicare fraud adds up to as much as $90 billion. the irs says tax refund fraud is as much as $21 billion. i just found you $100 billion of my money leaking out on the sides. use what you are getting already. >> melissa makes a great point about fraud and waste. washington does not have the political will to take that down. should we be bearing the cost as well as brave soldiers over there? >> i think we should. i agree with melissa. there is no such thing as a temporary tax. i understand. the first federal income tax came in the first civil war and made permanent in world war ii when holding tax was introduced in world war i tax be made permanent. we put a tax in place it's going to stay there. 20% of our budget goes to defense spending. 55% goes to defense. if we have something like

afghanistan or iraq occurs again, once we bump that cap, we are already issuing war bonds. they are treasuries being bought by china instead of 85 million americans that bought them during world war ii. we are deficit spending. put a temporary tax in place that covers the war but has to go to a vote to the american people and once that war is over, the tax stops. >> we spend so much on defense. compare to what we are spending now compared to the height of the iraq and afghanistan war. >> i'm scratching my head hearing john and melissa talk like well, we need the money, but don't do the tax. we don't need the money, for crying out loud. we are spending, 20% is spent on defense. the pentagon budget is $600 billion. we are spending $10 billion more in inflation-adjusted money than in 2005 when fighting iraq and afghanistan. we are spending as much now as

at the height of the cold war in 1985 when russia was spending $600 billion. you know what russia and china? they are spending less than half. do we need to spend this much money? do we need to spend more money than the next 11 countries combined? i don't think so. we are spending more than enough money. >> don't yell at me. i like you. >> jonas, war tax. >> look at the damage russia could do with their limited budget. i like paying for ongoing perpetual defense budget that seems to exceed what it allocated for these wars. i don't want our enemies to think there are more bureaucratic steps. you want them to think we can come in any time with unlimited money to destroy you. that's how you keep people from becoming like isis because they don't think we are going to join up with a force. you don't want to pad the tax.

it's an ongoing cost and acknowledge it like iraq war said more than we said. we would have had to raise taxes. you don't want to start another barrier and embolden our enemies. >> i agree with that. i like the idea of the american people having skin in the game when we are talking about war. if you think about the tiny percentage of people that serve in the military and the burden that the military families have that the rest of us really don't know anything about. i think if you had a national draft, a surtax, people would think harder about whether they wanted to go to war or not. >> john made a great point. from the war of 1812 to world war i to the korean war to vietnam, we used taxes to fund our fighting. why not now? >> they already have so much money. we don't need any more money to fund this fight when we are not out there fighting. why don't we come up with a strategy first.

why is the first thing going to tax us. it becomes the american way. soon as there is a problem, let's invent a tax to deal with it. come with a solution and deal with the money we have laid out for this. i don't know why we are talking about more money. >> i've never seen you like a tax that you moat. >> we have money to go after isis and boko haram in africa. i'm talking about adding a surtax. one thing that stopped the vietnam war, we had a draft and huge surtax put in place. it was so big the government ran a surplus in the late 1960s. people said we had enough of this war. i think we need a little more sharing of the american people. again, that does not discount

the waste that needs to be taken care of. >> gary b., take him on. >> i'm going back to sasha's point where you show off skin in the game. we have skin in the game. it's called the federal taxes. john and i pointed out, 20% of the budget we are already spending is on defense. where do you think that money's coming from? it's coming out of our pockets. has anyone said how much money we need to fight isis? why is it japan is 2% of their budget is spent on defense? we are spending 20%. no other nation spends as much. i wish i was in the defense industry. they are making all the money on this. the amount of money we are spending on defense to defend isis. are we trying to say that's going to be more than fighting the soviet union at its peak? someone needs to do a cost analysis. i think the total cost of fighting isis is there in the money we are spending. >> japan does not have to fight isis because we do.

>> why japan, united kingdom, germany. they all have miniscule amounts compared to what we are spending. it's not on our shoulders to once again be the world's policeman. we can't afford it. >> i agree. >> the allies have never stepped up to the plate. >> we do eventually get to a higher tax to pay for those costs we borrow. we are going to have to pay for it down the road. the current president made the tax code so progressive most people do not have a skin in the game paying for rolls. they pay payroll taxes. we would have to go back to the clinton era tax increase below 250 to get everybody paying for the defense budget. that's how it goes.

>> larry b. says we've got skin in the game. >> i agree. i'm never calling for more in the defense budget. iraq costs $2 trillion. the skin in the game is we'll be paying for that in the future. our kids and grandkids will be paying for that. if we don't egress it now and pay for what we choose now and kick it down the road i think that's a problem. >> gary b., 30 seconds last word. >> i know where we can get the money. rip apart obamacare. that money's there. melissa came up with a couple of good areas. >> i found $100 billion. >> just move it around. >> that's the last word. thanks, guys. cavuto on business in 20 minutes from now. neil, what have you got? >> tensions mounting again in ferguson. city budget busting. the human and financial toll adding up from these protests. plus, another executive action. this time for a bill of rights for college students.

guess who is on the hook for that bill? not them. see you soon bottom of the hour. >> can't wait. always a great show. but up here first. what if i told you isis may not be the country's number one problem right now? it's the u.s. government. we reveal a new poll. you decide. to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable professional. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] woman: [laughs] no way! that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro you just don't know. cfp -- work with the highest standard. if you're running a business legalzoom has your back. over the last 10 years we've helped one million business owners get started. visit legalzoom today for the legal help you need to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here.

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it's a uniquely collaborative approach you won't find anywhere else. put our global active management expertise to work for you. mfs. there is no expertise without collaboration. i'm kelly wright. the streets of ferguson missouri, staying calm overnight. a handful of protesters gathered as rain fell. police continue to search for suspects in connection to the shooting of two officers early thursday morning. no arrests have been made, but investigators say they are following dozens of leads and are working around the clock. s.w.a.t. teams and police have been fanning out across ferguson. cyclone pam ripping through the south pacific nation of vanuatu leaving destruction there.

dozens of feared death. power lines litter the streets. workers say remote villages have been washed away. the full scope of the disaster won't be clear until rescue teams reach people on the outer islands in the coming days. i'm kelly wright. back to "bulls and bears" for all your headlines log on to fox news.com. government is not the solution to our problem. government is the problem. >> well maybe the gipper had it right. when americans were just asked what they think is the most important problem facing the country today, dissatisfaction with government topping the list. get this. that's ahead of the economy, jobs, immigration, health care and terrorism. president reagan had it right all along? >> you better believe president reagan had it right. we are 34 years later, about $ 18 trillion in debt later and people are fed up with the

government. we have a government who can't agree on what to call our enemy. we are not talking about fighting our enemy but what to call the enemy. they spent the last week on the hillary e-mail deal. instead of immigration tax reform or some type of national energy policy. we have a government that wants to sit there and get re-elected. i believe this is the worst government in the history of government in the history of the world. >> it's not that black and white. i know a lot of americans who really love what the government gives them. >> look further down the survey. the gipper is talking about the size of government and tax rate and reducing it. these people don't like the way government is bickering and not getting their stuff done. that's not for reducing the size of the government. only 1% of the people in the survey think taxes are a problem in america. a lot of people, the government is not a problem, it solves their problem.

that's why it grew to do this thing to be a problem solver, pus kids in school. it creates a problem for the other side to pay for that. they redistribute problem from one hand to the government. >> go to mr. government, gary b. >> most people aren't against taxes because most people aren't paying a lot of taxes that's number one. number two. at the start of the century, the government, total government spending was 10% of gdp. now it's 33% gdp. in the last however many hundred years have we gotten anything really out of it? i'll give the government props on national defense. we need that. government is problem solver, really? i'm looking at health care.org, thinking the mess at the v.a. hospitals. i'm thinking of the highways that are crumbling.

everything government done is overbudget and overtime. i don't see them as problem solvers. i see them as problem creators. >> melissa is shaking her head. >> i totally agree. i think the government's mission any time they set out to do something it should be are they protecting my personal liberty or not? if that's not the goal, they shouldn't be doing it. the problem is they are just really bad at solving problems even when they have good intentions. you look at the food stamp program. they want to feed children and families. that's a great idea. it's such a leaky sieve, they do a terrible job. government cannot solve problems. they are terrible at it. why do politicians go to washington poor and leave rich? not because they are making a lot in legitimate salary. >> does president reagan have it right? >> i think that only 18% said the government is the biggest problem because you have 95%

that say congress is a mess. who are the 5% that think it's doing a good job, i have no idea. one thing i definitely see is for four months in a row with government being the biggest problem named in the survey, that means people are feeling so much better about the economy. it's not up higher on the list than the government. >> isn't that upside/down thinking, john? >> very upside/down thinking. there's 12000 lobbyists in washington, d.c. that spent $3.3 trillion every year buying off politicians. that's why they are going home rich because they have no morals, no scruples and can be bought off. >> there are people getting problems solved by government. there are people who get problems solved by government. they are usually poor people

companies. the government solves some people's problems, not well. it's the cost of somebody else. if you are trying to retire early, they are a problem because taxes are high. if you don't have any money and want to go on disability, it's solving your problem because you can do it now. depends who you are in the pecking order they solve some people's problem. that's how politicians get elected, solving people's problems. >> gary b. 20 seconds left. >> i don't think robbing peter to pay paul is solving a problem. in that case i could be king of the country and i could solve a lot of problems by taking from john and giving to jonas. if there is one transaction you have with the government that's even 1/10 as satisfying as going into an apple store, i'm all for big government, but you can't find it. >> thanks, guys. cashin' in just over an hour from now. what do you have coming up? >> think americans have questions about hillary's e-mail scandals now? wait till they hear how they are paying for it. why big labor fired a lawsuit

over scott walker. up here first. federal workers suing taxpayers for damages over the 2013 government shutdown. how much damage will that cost you? ♪ edward jones. with nearly 7 million investors oh hey, neill, how are you? you'd expect us to have a highly skilled call center. kevin, neill holley's on line one. ok, great. and we do. it's how edward jones makes sense of investing.

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federal agencies telling employees they can join a lawsuit against uncle sam. that means you. they are seeking monetary damages from the 2013 government shutdown. they got their back pay.

gary b., taxpayers on the hook for their damages? >> why do we love government? it's because of crazy stuff like this. they're claiming mental anguish over this. you know what the lawsuit gives them? it gives them $7.25 an hour covering five days. are we trying to pay people out there -- not trying to denigrate everyone's financial situation, but that loss of $290 just for those days, since they got paid many were able to claim unemployment benefits, and many to make up the work got overtime. they benefitted from this. are we saying that's worth a lawsuit? only in the u.s. government it is. >> i don't know. if i didn't know i was going to get my paycheck and had no idea when i was going to get it it would be upset. >> the pool of money for the lawyers is large. this is a ridiculous way to stop

the government. the whole point is you wouldn't work for somebody who just stopped paying you arbitrarily. if ups didn't pay people they would say i want a 20% pay increase because of the risk of that happening. the opposite of stock options. it's only going to be worse and employees want to work for the government and want higher wages. this is going to hurt all taxpayers for many years to come. >> this is the fault of the government, of congress. they couldn't get it together, right? not the workers. >> absolutely. 100% the fault of congress. i'm not a fan of ambulance-chasing lawyers but the worker going to work and wanted to go to work, that was expecting a check from the government, they have rent payments, car payments, bills coming due, it is not their fault at all. the government deserves to compensate them not only for their work or anything else. i'm not about this mental anguish stuff. if it caused them problems, the government should pay for this.

these idiots in congress get this for shutting down the i'm all about the mental anguish. i looked up what that means to qualify. it says was the event long term? did the guilty party stalk you, harass you by phone? do you have nightmares? that describes my relationship with the irs. i'm going to start my own class action lawsuit against the government and it's going to be a big one. >> good luck. >> i'm with john. it's a silly response to an underlying real problem which they did deserve to get paid. if congress wants to act like school children it shouldn't be at the expense of the federal workers. what makes more sense is pass a law if they are going to shut the government down again, the workers get paid on time. >> thanks, guys. and thank you, sasha, for joining us. >> thank you, brenda. alcohol that comes in a powder. what could be wrong with that?

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. . >> simple math problem. "frozen two" plus "cinderella" coming out means disney stock up 50% two years. >> you like it? >> no. >> interest rates are going up which benefits regional banks. i own it. 20% in a year. >> bearish. i think there are better picks in this sector. >> the new wi-fi enabled hello barbie is coming down the pike with interactive features and privacy-enhancing features like facebook. parents are mad now, but later when this humors their child they will want to buy them almost $100 a pop good. for mattel up 15% in a year. >> feed that doll and stock to your dog ramon. >> have you heard about

palcohol? it's going to be a huge hit mostly with minors making it a giant disaster. what could possibly go wrong? >> absolutely. don't you agree with me? i would rather have a martini? >> yes. here we go again. more protests, more violence and more calm. forget if we could put up with this. can we afford this? welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. an ongoing protests are pushing city budgets to the brink as businesses are still trying to get back on their feet. exercising our freedom of expression is a right, but is this right going a bit too far? charles payne says these protests are backfiring and costing.