really engaged. and there's a book for children the last days of jesus. you might want to check that out. kids now that they're interested. thanks for watching us tonight. ms. megyn is next. i'm bill o'r remember the spin stops here cause we're definitely looking out for you. breaking tonight, the debate over religious freedom in america grows more intense with the tiny family-owned restaurant in indiana now at the epicenter of this fight. welcome to "the kelly file" everyone. i'm megyn kelly. it all started six days ago. indiana governor mike pence signed the religious freedom restoration act, a law similar to those in 19 other states and at the federal level. in the days since governor pence and those supporting religious freedom have been vilified by some as homophobes and bigots. and nearly a dozen cities implementing travel bans against indiana. then today a new dramatic chapter. after the owners of memory's

pizza and ice cream in the town of walker, indiana, answered a hypothetical question honestly and told a tv crew they would say no to catering a gay wedding because of their religious beliefs. the fury that has followed has forced that business to shut its doors and set off a new debate about which side is being intolerant. we have a powerful lineup tonight with senior political analyst brit hume. former arkansas governor and potential 2016 presidential candidate mike huckabee. we begin tonight with trace gallagher who reports from our west coast newsroom on the small town family now at the center of a white hot controversy. trace. >> megyn, 61-year-old kevin o'connor opened up memory's pizza in walkerton, indiana nine years ago. and his nine children have all worked there at some point. yesterday a local tv station came into the restaurant to get opinions about indiana's new religious freedom law. kevin and his daughter were both

interviewed. the daughter said this listen. >> we're not discriminating against anyone. it's just that's our belief. and everybody has their right to believe anything. >> kevin went onto say, as always anyone is welcome in his pizza place. but because of his religious beliefs he couldn't cater a same-sex wedding. he thought he was saying it metaphorically since he's never catered any wedding. but the response was vicious. prior to the interview he had two yelp reviews both were excellent. at one point today he had more than 1,200 mostly negative and nasty reviews. yelp keeps taking them down but right now he still has more than 500. their facebook page has also beenin inundated with threats and mean messages that he says just get more and more angry. for now the restaurant is closed because the phone won't stop ringing and they don't know which orders are real and which are phony. he's not sure when or if he'll reopen. and just minutes ago i spoke to

him on the phone. he said he doesn't know where all the hatred comes from telling me quoting here "because i don't believe in something they want, they see fit to be angry about it. it's really confusing to me. i'm just a little guy in a little tiny town. that's where i've been my whole life." he ended by saying it's just been ugly. i don't know what to call it. kevin o'connor, mind you, stands by his comments because that's the way he was raised. but for a place called memories miss u pizza, this memory isn't a fond one. megyn. >> brit, let's pick up there on the question of which side is being intolerant in this. i'm sure there are a lot of folks who support the gay rights movement say it's the pizza owner and he is reaping what he sowed. >> it's absurd to think anybody's going to have pizza at their wedding. >> what self-respecting gay couple would have pizza -- bernard i'll get bernard on

that. >> absolutely not. >> go ahead, brit. >> beyond that this does illustrate the force of this movement and the political power of this movement that this much of a backlash could be stirred against this guy and his pizzeria most americans and perhaps indianans have never heard of. this achieves something like one of the things it's always hoped for is something like the consensus consensus, or hopes it has something like the consensus achieved by the civil rights movement where being a racist has become and long been one of the worst things that you could be called and one of the worst tags you could be tarred with. now of course some of that is now applying to people who could be accused whether fairly or not of being anti-gay. and that is where we are. now, the question arises here with regard to this indiana law and this man's pizzeria as whether the rights of gays and lesbians to wed and to live with all the normal rights that

everyone else has should extend to the point where they nullify this man's rights to exercise his religion. the law megyn, in question here simply says that the government cannot substantially burden the exercise of your religion. and if you think that it does you can go to court to defend your rights. that's what the law does. it doesn't ever mention gay rights. it doesn't mention lesbians. it doesn't mention any of the other groups that fall into the lgbt heading. but an enormous storm has arisen over this. >> the law doesn't even have to say any of that in indiana because there's no antidiscrimination law protecting gays and lesbians in indiana. there are a couple cities that recognize it. but the religious freedom recognition act is basically meaningless when it comes to gays and lesbians in that state because they are not recognized as a protected class. >> that's right. the fact is people who may wish to discriminate against gays or

lesbians are no more or less able to do that today in indiana because of this law than they were before it was passed. so you get an idea of the level of the distortion and the deception that has been practiced to bring down this fury on the state of indiana's governor and this pizza guy. >> brit, do you think there is room in today's day and age for someone who believes that -- does not believe in gay marriage to maintain that belief? >> i think there is, megyn. i think ultimately the law will find that. and the laws will continue to be passed to assert that right. but it has going to be a tremendous battle. and as you can see the corporations of america some of the main ones, fearing that there is a consensus like that which attaches to racism from the civil rights movement react today this much the way you would expect a company to do and felt like its business was badly jeopardized. walmart was terrified about the arkansas law. you see the ncaa was.

you see these travel bans being imposed apple computer came out -- >> angie's list. >> yeah. the list goes on. angie's list is on it. this shows you the force of this thing. my own view is that there is a large number of people across this country who are not sympathetic to the way this is going. and republicans who some of whom look like they're running scared today might be well advised to stick to their guns. >> brit good to see you. >> yeah, thanks megyn. >> while the pizzeria owners were attacked for their moment of honesty, others are being attacked just for not saying anything. duke basketball coach was hammered today for simply staying silent on the issue as his team prepares for the final four. he and his opposing coaches have since issued a joint statement on the indiana law condemning discrimination in any form. bernard whitman is a democratic pollster as well as president and ceo of whitman strategies llc. good to see you.

>> thanks megyn. >> is there room for christian who is have a genuinely held belief that gay marriage is wrong for them to decline to participate in gay weddings? >> look, i think it's one thing to be able to have free speech. everybody is protected for that. but it's another thing to use law to actually discriminate based on action. i think what this underscores is the scourge of discrimination in our society has got to stop. bigotry has no place in america. it's bad for business. it's bad for the moral fabric of our society. people are opposed to any discrimination in any form against gays and lesbians. >> many are in favor of gay marriage by a substantial margin. however, that doesn't really answer the question. so you look at this pizzeria and the gal at the counter, right she doesn't think about gay marriage the way you think of gay marriage. but should she have the pizza store effectively shut down because she answered a hypothetical question honestly that some reporter asked her? >> i'm a huge believer in the free market. the free market has an interesting way of bringing

things to the forward. what this shows is people don't agree with discrimination. they don't agree with bigotry. i have no problem -- >> is this the way to bring her along? >> i have no problem with people expressing religious freedom. however, it's time we stop using religion as a weapon of discrimination. >> this is what they say they say the religious freedom is to be against gay marriage, to serve gays in the pizzeria, befriend gays in the public square, but not to cater a wedding they don't agree with. >> it wasn't long ago that organizations like the kkk used religion as an excuse to discriminate against black people. that's wrong. fortunately for the most part that's endsed though that scourge is in existence. >> the people who believe religiously that gay marriage is wrong may not assert that objection if they are in the business of providing services to the public. >> i think that we need a nondiscrimination law at the federal level just like dozens of tech executives came out today and said we need to ensure that people are not

discriminated against based on who they are or who they happen to love. it's un-american. it's strong and frankly it's un-christian as i understand it. love thy neighbor as thyself. >> to all these people who went on to the yelp page, the mean people i wanted some pizza after my clan rally and of course i went to memories pizza. and one die in a pizza fire, haters. so on. bernard, this is not the way to bring people over. this is not the way to convince them to embrace something with which they're starting to get familiar. >> right. megyn, i think hate of any kind is wrong and it's an abomination. what my hope is this ultimately becomes a teachable moment where people can understand the hurt caused by discrimination and the real pain and suffering that is caused when people treat other people differently simply for who they are and who they happen to love. so i'm hopeful -- >> what did you have at your wedding? was it pizza? >> no, but we had delicious cake. >> me too.

though pizza is my favorite food. i'd have to consider it. if doug and i ever renew our vows, we'll consider it. >> can i come? >> it's going to be big momma's pizza, which is awesome. yes, you are officially invited. you and your partner. >> thank you. >> great to see you. we are hearing suggestions that any potential 2016 presidential candidate should be disqualified. that's it. plus new fallout after the outgoing senate minority leader all but admitted he repeatedly lied to the american people all in the interest of helping president obama win re-election. dana perino is here on what the white house did today when asked whether the president would callout senator harry reid. >> i wonder if president obama who has lamented this instability in our politics, this disrespect in our politics, has any view of harry reid telling dana bash in response to this question well romney didn't get elected, did he?

hey, girl. is it crazy that your soccer trophy is talking to you right now? it kinda is. it's as crazy as you not rolling over your old 401k. cue the horns... just harness the confidence it took you to win me and call td ameritrade's rollover consultants. they'll help with the hassle by guiding you through the whole process step by step. and they'll even call your old provider. it's easy. even she could do it. whatever, janet. for all the confidence you need td ameritrade. you got this. not to be judgmental, but from where i'm sitting... it's your gas that's out of order in this court. the pressure. the bloating. get gas-x. it relieves all those symptoms in minutes. that's why it's the #1 gas relief brand.

you're welcome. ugh...you're the valet? yea, sorta the valet. both drive for a living, both like to save money on car insurance and we both know you may not get this car back in the same condition. watch your toes. wo! ya boy... get it! sorta you isn't you. with drivesense from esurance, you can earn a personalized discount based on how you drive not how someone sorta like you drives. you'll even get a discount just for signing up. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call.

none of those people who would defend this law in indiana the debate that took place about this law, its passage, even its ceremony. none of those people who would defend that are qualified to be president of the united states. >> that was connecticut governor

dan malloy who by the way leads a state with its own religious freedom law suggesting anyone who dares to support indiana's religious freedom law should not be considered for the white house. former arkansas governor mike huckabee is a republican and possible runner for 2016 and has considered. so to governor malloy you say what? >> i say no one is qualified to be president if they don't respect the first amendment and religious liberty. this is the most bizarre thing. megyn, this is a manufactured crisis by the left. if they manufactured as many products as they do crises like this one which is an utterly phony attempt to create some kind of division, 92 million americans who are jobless would have jobs. i've never seen anything so utterly off the mark in my life as trying to pretend that the rifa law is discrimination.ly not. it simply gives you access to the court.

and there's no guarantee that you're going to win when you go. >> but the other side argues that certain things like civil liberties, like the rights of gays and lesbians to marry, are so important they shouldn't be subjected to judicial whim. that they should be receive a blanket protection. >> there's nothing in the rfra that says a thing about homosexuality, gay marriage. your previous guest completely doesn't know the difference between discrimination and discretion. discrimination is when someone comes into the pizza place, they're turned away because they're black or because they're female or because they're gay, although i don't honestly know how you would know someone is gay just because they walked in and ordered a pepperoni pizza. but discretion is something every american should have the right to exercise. which is that if you come to my place and order cupcakes or a donut, i'll serve you. if you want me to show up and

deliver a cake with two men on top of it, because i'm a christian, because i believe the biblical definition of marriage, then i'm not going to be able to do that. that's not discrimination. that's discretion. and there's a difference. >> do you feel like there's a discrimination here? because i've heard some christians say this, against christians. that there's intolerance against, you know a biblical teaching that's been around for a long time. >> of course i believe that. and i think that this movement on the left to try to push this and i'm watching these major corporations fold up like a cheap tent in a wind storm. and it breaks my heart to see it because ultimately there are a lot of christians that have been very quiet. they just said live and let live. but there may come a time when the vast numbers of people in this country, some of them aren't even christians, who will say this is going too far.

when you start trying to shut businesses down. and, megyn let's just be very blunt here. i was in china last year. i was governor of arkansas ten and a half years. the people including the ceo of walmart who said that arkansas shouldn't pass this law, i'm wondering, i know arkansas very well. and i know china a little bit. walmart does a lot of business in china. and there's a lot more discrimination going on in china than there is in arkansas. >> last question. do you think that christians will step up and help save this pizza joint? >> i hope so. but i hope they do more than save a pizza joint. i hope they save this great republic. i hope they preserve religious liberty because it really is at risk, megyn. i hope that christians will do more than just say gee whiz this is unfortunate. if christians wanted to rise up and vote they could make a difference, we could make a change in this country. not to discriminate against anyone, but because in america

more voices are better than fewer, more ideas are better than fewer ideas more speech is better than less speech. and the left is pushing a restriction on people's basic fundamental liberties. that's not what we need. >> governor, always great to see you. >> thank you megyn. well, we have some new revelations tonight about the comedian pick to take over for jon stewart over at "the daily show." up next, trevor noah and some of the messages that are in his past that are creating a lot of controversy. howie kurtz has been going through it. he's here with the breakdown. plus, after the outgoing senate minority leader all but admits he lied on the senate floor because he really wanted mitt romney to lose we'll ask dana perino about how the white house is now condemning senator reid and no un -- oh, wait.

let me talk to you about retirement. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? i would. i would indeed.

well, let's be clear here. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] [laughs] no way! i have no financial experience at all. that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. now? can i at least put my shoes on? if your bladder is calling the shots ... you may have a medical condition called overactive bladder ... ...or oab you've got to be kidding me. i've had enough! it's time to talk to the doctor. ask your doctor how myrbetriq may help treat... ...oab symptoms of urgency frequency, and leakage. which may mean fewer trips to the bathroom. myrbetriq (mirabegron) may increase your blood pressure. myrbetriq may increase your chances... ...of not being able to empty your bladder. tell your doctor right away if you have... ...trouble emptying your bladder or have a weak urine stream. myrbetriq may affect... ...or be affected by other medications... ...so tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. before taking myrbetriq,

tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems. common side effects include increased blood pressure, common cold symptoms, urinary tract infection, and headache. take charge by talking to your doctor about your oab symptoms and myrbetriq. find out if you can get your first prescription at no cost by visiting myrbetriq.com new details tonight on what's turning out to be a controversial pick to replace jon stewart on "the daily show." the channel comedy central announced earlier this week that 31-year-old south african comedian trevor noah would take over the host chair. immediately a few of his mere 9,000 tweets came under scrutiny for what some are calling sexism and anti-semitism to name a few of the problems. like one that says behind every successful rap billionaire is a double as rich jewish man

#beatsbydreidel. when flying over middle of america the turbulence is so bad it's like all the ignorance is ride e rising through the air. howie, trevor noah turns out to have some controversial thoughts. or i guess comic thoughts on jews, on women, on african-americans. you tell me is it a problem? >> not to mention ty hooker's so-called fat chicks. some of these tweets, megyn, you can't read on the air. it's amazing in 24 hour ths previously ob secure at least in this country south african comic has gone from hero to zero as people dug up these tweets. and many of these jokes offend me. rather than taking on the powerful, rather than taking on politicians or business leaders or self-important journalists, he's going after groups that are pretty easily marginalized. >> like heavy women right. >> come on. >> that's what they need. >> it's so cheap. >> kick them again. here's a couple more for the audience. originally when men propose they

went down on one knee. so if they said no they were in the perfect upper cut position. so they could punch the woman that said no to them? the weekend people are going to get drunk and think i'm sexy, a quote he attributes to fat chicks everywhere. and then there's this he retweeted people who wrote blue-eyed people have a higher alcohol tolerance. and he added lower jew tolerance. what does this say about him? >> i missed that one. you know, it says a lot. i'm somebody who gives comedians a lot of leeway. we've seen this with performers going back to don rick ls richard pryor, sarah silverman. there's a pattern here though that makes me think he's a lousy pick for "the daily show." he hasn't started and he's already alienated a good part of his potential audience. >> here's what i see as a problem for him and comedy central right now. he comes out and says to reduce my views to a handful of jokes

is not a true reflection of my character. does trevor have any idea what they do on "the daily show"? any idea what his mission statement is? >> maybe not. he's only been on three times. that's why he was such an unusual pick. the established comedians didn't want the job. but here's the thing, he also makes fun of america as we saw in one of the tweets you read. jon stewart does that and he loves to go after fox and made fun of you and me last week, megyn. we know at least in his heart that he cares about the country. now, this guy's an outsider. and it's not going to be funny if he's seen as making jokes like one he made on television about being more comfortable in apartheid south africa than american police if he's seen as kind of attacking this country from the outside. and by the way comedy central and trevor noah have handled this horribly. they're putting out these terse defensive statements. if trevor noah wants to show he's worthy of this job and it is a pretty important cultural

job these days, you have to do a big-time tv interview, take on these questions and he ought to do it with a little humor. >> you're right. jon stewart has gone after us again. he's very angry that despite his best efforts the fox news channel remains stronger than ever. that hurts. >> only a few more months to kick him around. >> oh well, see you howie. >> bye, megyn. explosive claims in the hbo documentary "going clear" made mike a target of the church of scientology. and how? but mike rinder is not backing down. and he's here tonight with firsthand stories of phone tappings, private investigators church abuse and what really happened with tom cruise and nicole kidman in that church. plus, new fallout tonight after the outgoing senate minority leader all but admitted he repeatedly lied to the american people all in the interest of helping president obama win re-election. dana perino is here next on what the white house did today when asked whether president obama

would callout senator reid. >> but it's the president's choice and his spokesman's choice to call out conduct unbecoming of our highest elected officials when it is in fact unbecoming. are you going to take that opportunity now?

a. checking your credit score is for chumps. i have great credit. how do you know? duh. you know those change, right? tattoos don't change. try credit karma. it's free and you can see what your score is right now. aren't you a little bit curious?

i just got my free credit score! credit karma. really free credit scores. really free. i have got to update my ink. from the world headquarters of fox news, it's "the kelly file" with megyn kelly. well, the white house today faced tough questions after the outgoing senate minority leader all but admitted that he lied flat out to the american people in the interest of helping president obama win re-election. chief washington correspondent james rosen was the one asking the questions. james. >> megyn, good evening. at issue here is the unsub stan unsubstantiated allegation that then-senate majority leader harry reid unleashed on the floor against the gop

presidential nominee. >> disclose one year as father -- set a precedent that people running for president would file their tax returns, let everybody look at them. mitt romney can't do that because he's basically paid no taxes in the prior 12 years. >> this week having announced he would not seek re-election senator reid sat down with my cnn colleague dana bash who asked about the senator's false charges. >> so no regrets about mitt romney, about the koch brothers? some people called it -- >> they can call it whatever they want. romney didn't win, did he? >> president obama on monday visited the new edward m. kennedy institute in boston where lamented that our politics are not more purposeful and elevated. >> i wonder if president obama who has lamented this instability in our politics, this disrespect in our politics

has any view of harry reid telling dana bash in response to this question, well, romney didn't get elected did he? >> obviously senator reid is somebody who's going to decide for himself about what he says on the senate floor. >> the president's choice and his spokesman's choice to call out conduct unbecoming of our highest elected officials when it is in fact unbecoming. are you going to take that opportunity now? >> not for something that's three years old. >> and to many that answer echoed the answer that former obama spokesman tomny veeter gave to fox news's bret baier when the latter asked about benghazi on television and he answered, dude that's like three years ago. megyn. >> there's a statute of limitations on unethical behavior. james, good to know. learn something new everyday. joining me now with more, dana perino co-host of "the five" here on fnc. so president obama it was three years ago, that's what the white house is saying. >> i think it would have been very easy for the white house

today -- i mean this is an easy call to make. the president isn't going to run for office again. harry reid is not going to run for office again. president obama could have been true to himself and to the american people and said that was wrong. i don't understand why that would have been hard for them to do. it seems to me that would have been an easy call to make. >> where is at least the feigned outrage by some of these democrats who would be the first to stand up and call him a liar if he had an r after his name instead of a d. >> you can just imagine that reporters would be calling every one of those republicans if it had been a republican reporters would have called every single one of those republicans and said do you standby the man you voted for majority leader three time sns are you going to standby him? or will you repudiate what he said? as far as i know there are no democrats being asked that. they're all ducking it. part of the reason is because harry reid for as nasty a politician as he is is extremely powerful. >> you never say an unkind word

about anybody. even for dana to say nasty. >> i think hoost been absolutely poisonous in washington. i think it's onef the reasons people have disdain for washington. i think hillary clinton will be much served by having a change in that position so she won't have to tie herself to harry reid. >> were you surprised at all to see his smugness about his lie and how the ends justified the means. because romney didn't win, did he? >> i would say that in the last three years i have noticed something with harry reid that is almost like an untethered reality to the universe. his crazy attacks against the koch brothers. there were democrats behind the scenes would tell you we don't know what's going on with him, we can't support this. but because he was so powerful and controlled all of the money and all of the committee assignments and everything they could do or say was controlled by harry reid, they wouldn't say anything then. and i think it's incredible that no one says anything now. is there not a single democrat who has the nerve to stand up,

the principle to stand up? and i cannot believe that the white house passed on that. it would have been an easy thing for president obama to do. >> do you see some hypocrisy here? the left would be going after him if he were a republican but not only that we were talking in the last segment with howie about trevor noah, the new host of "the daily show." if he had been somebody stepping into a role that the democrats didn't like, you know, filling the shoes of somebody other than jon stewart and had said these things about women and blacks and jews, you know would they be giving him such a pass? would they be giving harry reid such a pass? it's like if they like you, you can say whatever terrible thing you want about a woman or an african-american. it's fine. it's if they don't like you because you're the wrong party that you have different rules. >> if you could take all the articles about trevor noah and search and replace with bill o'reilly, what do you think the outcry would be? and that's obvious. those are two very different programs. one is a comedy show one is a

news program. but both programs are very popular in america. obviously we know that from being here. there is a double standard. and it's something republicans just have to factor in to their decision making. >> and the american public needs to factor in to its judgment about the information that is being funneled to them by a media that only cares when it's one side. >> and the harry reid thing is just so different. he actually said this on the floor of the united states senate. that's paid for by taxpayers. and he basically said that mitt romney didn't pay his taxes, which was a total lie. >> chuck schumer says he has a glowing statement about senator reid's honesty and harry reid boasts about his integrity. >> he won't be ms. e missed in washington. not by me. >> once the chief spokesman for the church of scientology now is leveling stunning allegations in a scathing new hbo documentary that's setting records. he's here next on what he calls the secrets behind the faith.

what was done to recruit tom cruise? how do you get a guy, a star like that to join a religion like scientose asked people a simple question: can you keep your lifestyle in retirement? i don't want to think about the alternative. i don't even know how to answer that. i mean, no one knows how long their money is going to last. i try not to worry, but you worry. what happens when your paychecks stop? because everyone has retirement questions. ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. to get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today. toenail fungus? don't hide it... tackle it with fda-approved jublia! jublia is a prescription medicine proven to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. once applied jublia gets to the site of infection by going under, around and through the nail. most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application-site redness itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters, and pain. tackle it!

ask your doctor now if jublia is right for you.

something special happens when you come to transunion.com. you get in the know. and when you're in the know about your credit, you feel confident, ready for anything. at transunion.com you get instant credit alerts to keep you in sync. you can even lock and unlock your transunion report with the swipe of a finger. come to transunion.com. and get in the know. they sell it all in the beginning as something quite logical. >> you take on a matrix of thought that is not your own. >> so strong that it sticks you like glue. >> you just don't see it

happening to you. you justify so much. >> there is no logical explanation other than faith. >> that was a peek at the riveting new hbo documentary "going clear." scientology and the prison of belief. it premiered sunday night to a huge audience. and is now the network's biggest documentary in almost a decade. in the days running up to the broadcast the church of scientology hammered the film on social media and sharply worded e-mails to news programs like "the kelly file." but so far it looks as though that campaign may have backfired with plenty of folks coming out to support its message. earlier i spoke with mike rinder, a former scientologyist who spent decades defending scientology. and he's one of the people heavily featured in the documentary. all right. so let's start with your story. because you say you were a signtologist from the age of 6. it started back in 1950 i guess, so your parents were?

>> that's right. >> at that point though are they telling you about znu and the belief these bodies came down to earth and started inhabiting people and had to be gotten out with auditing and all that? >> not at all. in fact, if you were to go to the vast majority of scientology today, right now, they would not even know about that. >> why not? >> because it's kept secret. it's kept secret until you are "ready for it," which means you've made progress to a point where you are considered to be spiritually advanced enough to be able to deal with that material. now, other people will say the other view of that is until you've been caught in the trap well enough, nobody in their right mind would stick around once they read or heard that. >> uh-huh. >> hubbard -- >> founder of scientology.

>> excuse me. >> that's okay. >> l. hubbard said that material is dangerous to people who are not spiritually prepared for it. and scientologyist believe that to today. >> do you believe it started off with a noble purpose and morphed into something else? >> i do. i do believe that there was some intent on the part of mr. hubbard to help people. i also believe that there were more nefarious motives behind some of that as well. >> making money? >> making money. >> declaring yourself a church means you don't have to pay taxes if the irs agrees you're a church. >> that's exactly right. and it affords you enormous protection. protection which is one of the subjects of this documentary and the thing i feel very passionate about is that abuses that go on within the church of scientology are in some form protected because they can hide behind the

cloak of religion. >> under the banner of religion. being a child in this church, let's talk about that. because one of the pieces that the documentary addresses is the treatment, at least for a period, of children. and the convincing of members to sort of hand over their children to the church. and a woman who's heavily featured in it named spanky talks about her last straw with scientology and rescuing her child and making a run for it leaving the church and off they went. how long was that kind of thing going on? >> for a long time. i mean many many, many years. spanky and myself and other people that are featured in this documentary were part of what's called the sea organization. and the c organization is the central core of scientology the people that work and live in church facilities. it's analogized not exactly correctly, but it's analogized to the clergy in the film.

my two children were raised that way. i have two children who were born into the c organization. and they were raised with nannies in a nursery that was not a standard nursery. >> did they sleep in your house at night? >> no. >> they slept under the care of somebody else? >> often. not always. >> what were they being taught? was it about educating them into the proper scientology beliefs? >> yes very much so. in fact, there was a book written by a niece of david naskavich which goes into some detail of what her life was like growing up as a child of a c org member. and it's pretty horrific. today the church doesn't allow c ork org members to have children. >> really? >> no. it was stopped in i guess it was like the early '90s or

something. just because it was such a problem. and now if you want to be in the c organization, you may not have children. >> and there is much more. mike rinder next on tom cruise nicole kidman and one of the biggest controversies for the church.

back now with more of our interview with mike rinder, formerly the spokesman for the church of scientology for decades. here he explains the church's role in the end of tom cruise and nicole kidman's marriage. you were in the organization then i take it when tom cruise joined scientology? >> yes i was. >> how do you get a guy, a star like that, to join a religion like scientology? >> i think, megyn, i mean it's the answer to the question of what's done to get anybody to

participate in scientology. >> but do you think he knows about this abuse? i mean because what the documentary asserts is that abuse is ongoing in the church. >> i think tom cruise is unique in that he does. because tom cruise is david's best friend. and you see in this film -- you see the two of them. and you see them growing together. >> let's show the audience that. show the audience the moment where tom cruise comes out and he salutes l. ron hubbard and shakes hands with david. watch. [ cheers and applause ] >> and tom cruise david has

denominated tom cruise as the best scientologist they know. you know, the second in command of scientology. tom cruise is briefed by david about a lot of things. and a lot of things that go on that others are not privy to. >> and the documentary talks about how scientology has $4 billion. and these incredible facilities all over the world. and when tom cruise is going to show up at one of them, the orders are given to the people what? >> oh. the place had better be in perfect shape. everything is staged. like if he goes to the international headquarters at gold, which is called golden era productions in hammock, california. all of the stuff they're instructed to call him sir, to salute, everybody has to smile at him. >> they have to salute him while he's walking around the grounds? >> yes. and you must smile. and there can be not a blade of grass out of order. >> do you believe the church had

a role in breaking up that marriage? cruise and kidman? >> i do. i absolutely do. >> because she wasn't a scientologist scientologist? >> well, she was a scientologist megyn. but her real problem was she wasn't as dedicated a scientologist as tom was, her father is a psychologist. and she felt that apparently that tom was becoming more like and she didn't like it. >> you know the church obviously denies all of this. they say it's all lies. it's all made up. and that this is a bunch of dis disgruntled people. they say you're a wife abuser, a paid liar, that you get paid by law firms that you were kicked out of the church. is any of that true? >> no, it's not. i mean, i've draez e addressed some of this on my blog just so people would know. but i certainly wasn't kicked out of the church. i mean i walked out of the church when i was the international spokesperson. the last thing that you see in the film is me standing in the doorway of the church in london yelling at john sweeney.

right after that was when i left. and i was the international spokesperson for scientology. you know, it's interesting they say generally that everybody who ever says anything negative about the church or scientology is a liar because they have signed confessions from people and handwritten confessions. and it's true. there are confessions. you are made to effectively confess to lying to david for example. if he believes you're doing something he doesn't like he says you're lying and you have to confess to it or you're going to be stuck in the hole. >> which is like a prison. that's a prison in scientology. which actually we have a clip of just so people can understand this is the real thing. here's a clip. >> the doors had bars put on them. the windows all had bars put on them. and there was one entrance door that a security guard sat at 24

hours a day. >> i'd stay there, sleep there. i stunk. ants crawling around. you sleep about an hour, two hours a night. you were in such a mental state that you're very controlled, very suggestible. >> so you were told you were going into the hole. >> or sign this and you can get out of the hole. or sign this and you won't have 20 people beating on you. >> how can an adult person you know, in a church, be told you are going to be imprisoned in a place like that and not say, you know what, i'm out of here? >> well that's a question we all ask ourselves a lot. believe me. >> and that is where we will pick it up tomorrow night. mike rinder used to be a church enforcer and tomorrow he reveals the techniques the church used, he says, to keep members in line. the church of scientology sent us a long statement about this documentary which reads in part "alex gibney's film is bigoted

propaganda built on falsehoods. they cannot be trusted. and no statements they make can be believed." you know, remember when we talked about the church of arthur last night? in that church you don't have to salute at all, i hear. you just like, muah, he fell in love. we'll be right back.

you're welcome. ugh...you're the valet? yea, sorta the valet. both drive for a living, both like to save money on car insurance and we both know you may not get this car back in the same condition. watch your toes. wo! ya boy... get it! sorta you isn't you. with drivesense from esurance, you can earn a personalized discount based on how you drive not how someone sorta like you drives. you'll even get a discount just for signing up. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call.

marie callender's knows your favorite dutch apple pie starts with a golden flaky crust, wedges of fresh fuji apples, and a brown sugar streusel on top. so she made her dutch apple pie just like that. marie callender's. it's time to savor.

why are you deleting these photos? because my teeth are yellow. why don't you use a whitening toothpaste? i'm afraid it's bad for my teeth. try crest 3d white. crest 3d white diamond strong toothpaste and rinse... ...gently whiten... ...and fortify weak spots. use together for 2 times stronger enamel. crest 3d white. who does this kinda thing online? i-i-i clicked on some links, ugh the kids weren't even home. wait, wait, wait, this changes everything. it's cars.com service & repair feature. so we'll never pay more than we should. well done. research, price, find. get the right service without all the drama. ♪ ♪ (ee-e-e-oh-mum-oh-weh) (hush my darling...) (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) (hush my darling...) man snoring (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) woman snoring take the roar out of snore. yet another innovation

only at a sleep number store. i have great credit. how do you know? duh. try credit karma. it's free and you can see what your score is right now . i just got my free credit score! credit karma. really free. finally, tonight marks the national day of hope and the first day of national child abuse prevention month. folks observing five seconds of silence for the nearly five children that die each day from abuse and neglect. millions more suffer daily. help by calling 1-800-4-a-child. or go live from america's news headquarters, i'm jackie ibanez, the iran nuclear talks in

switzerland went into early morning hours thursday, u.s. state department says they will resume again in a few hours. there's no word if the parties are any closer for a framework for a deal. if a deal is reached economic punishments on iran would be scaled back. senator bob menendez is scheduled to appear in a new jersey federal court on thursday, one day after being charge with corruption. the ranking democrat member of the senate foreign relations committee also voluntarily stepped down from his leadership post. he's accused of accepting nearly $1 million in gift and donations from a long time friend. he denies the charges, calling it politically motivated. i'm jackie ibanez "hannity" starts right now. [ gunfire ] tonight, an exclusive report from the front lines in the fight against isis. the former u.s. army vet who's fighting the terrorists gives us