how to protect young victims in their home answer the media. if you are someone in need of help please find the courage to come forward. call 800-4-a-child. i'm megyn kelly. thank you for watching. >> tonight. >> they can't do this to us. >> reaction to the explosive interview with the duggars. where does the family go from here? >> he asked me to forgive him. i had to make that choice to forgive him. >> as you look around the country and across america you can see the failing policies of the democrats. >> reporter: a chicago pastor unleashes on democrats for 50 years of failed policies that have devastated the black community in his city. >> do you, on some level, relish being the target of these attacks? >> who self promotes to get killed? >> plus, pam geller is under attack again.

the main stream media continues to blame her for the violent acts of radical jihadists. she is on tonight to respond. "hannity" starts here and now. >> welcome to "hannity." the duggars are under fire after release of the information that josh molested four of his sisters and a family friend over a decade ago. now jill and jessa open up about it. >> i can set this straight here. i was one of the victims. in josh's case he was a young boy in puberty. little too curious about girls. that got he made some bad choices, but really the extent of it was child, inappropriate touching on fully clothed victims. >> for me even when my parents came and sat down and told me

this i was like really? i'm sad. i'm shocked at the same time like jessa was saying i was shocked. >> when we were doing the investigation and they are asking you to tell the story. it is one thing to talk to mom and dad and say, wow, this happened. but it is another thing when a stranger is like tell me your story here. >> our parents told us. they said we all went down there. they took us down there and they said we're going to share what happened here and our parents told us be completely open and honest. >> they are here to help you. >> we were pretty serous. >> i was in tears. i couldn't believe what was going on. [ crying ]

whenever i heard the police report had been released i said they can't do this to us. >> whatever choices -- whatever things they may say, legally we can do this and that. it's like it's obviously not -- like they are not protecting us. i see it as a revictimization. a thousand times worse. >> why? >> because this is something that was already dealt with. we have already forgiven josh and moved on. everything was distorted. we feel like our story was not being told. we felt like it should have shouldn't have been told. the victims are the only ones that can speak for themselves. now that it has already been warped and told however they

want to portray it then we felt like that's why jess and i wanted to come out and just say, that's not what happened. we have dealt with it. we have taken care of it. >> wow. joining us with reaction robert jeffress and from the fox news medical a team dr. ablow is with us. let's start with the line that the sister is making. the release of the police report i see it as revictimization here which is a thousand times worse. was that a mistake? in other words, if they didn't want it out, they are the victims in this case. did they have the right not to have this released? >> i don't know about the legal standing is but i would say it was improper to release the report. on the other hand the victims don't have the only voices here because josh duggar at that time was a pedophile and there are other people who may come in contact with him, may have come in contact with him and may come

in contact with him and the family hasn't provided anything like a reassuring story about treatment that would alleviate those concerns. they are not concerned, but i am. >> they did send him for treatment and did report it to the police department. was that not the proper course of action? to me that seemed like the proper course of action? >> as i understand it they sent him for treatment to not psychiatrists, not psychologists necessarily, they really don't expand upon it. it is an older man who had him do carpentry with them. they were part of an organization that says they heal folks but this is sere use business sean. >> i agree. they didn't say they went to friend's of joshes to find out, did they have younger sister? has anyone else been hurt and the the naivete by the parents and

the girls just now, you did the wrong thing. you didn't safe guard the community. i don't know if you safeguarded your kids because there are 19 of them. >> they told the police everything. >> i don't know if they told the police everything -- >> i can only listen to what they said. they said the told the police everything at the instruction of their parents, don't hold back. they want to help. are you blaming law enforcement then? they should have taken this to a different level? >> right now my comments are reserved for the duggar family itself. they havent given an explanation of treatment rendered their son. they say he was never a pedophile but the definition fits him. his sisters say they were touched only above their clothes. >> they also said they didn't remember it right? >> they also say they don't remember it and their parents know it was below clothes for some of the victims. sean the scenario doesn't wash with me. i don't know of any four people who can be sleeping and touched

inappropriately or five if you include the baby-sitter and not know it. what kind of story is this? it doesn't make sense. >> pastor let me go to you. i think you hear criticism from dr. ablow about the chosen level of treatment. is pastoral counseling enough especially because they did make a police report? >> well -- >> go ahead. >> full disclosure here. i know the duggars. they worship in my church whenever they come to dallas. i think they are a wonderful family and i don't pretend to know everything that happened. no one does. here's what we know for sure from this interview tonight. these girls admit they were abused by josh. they say they have forgiven him. they love him. they want to get on with their lives and yet there are some people even in the world of counseling who can't accept that. they say you are in denial. you have to be a perennial victim. you can't be healed from this.

well the gospel message that this family embraces says through the power of god's grace and going through the proper steps of forgiveness you don't have to be a victim forever. you can get on with your lives and your question does this work let me say this does it work? whatever happened josh has not been accused of anything in the last 12 years. he has his own family. the girls are saying this is just like breaking a scab off a wound that has been healed and why are we revictimizing these girls. >> the church hasn't always been perfect in the treatment of pedophiles has it? while pastoral counseling can be tremendously valuable i'm not sure it is a proper way to address pedophilia. this is a family that turned their family in to a side show and invited cameras in to their lives in a way that exploited their children and made money from them. where's the wonderful family

that the pastor is describing? >> pastor? >> i will tell you where it is. >> yeah where is it. >> let me tell you, they love their girls more than any of us on this panel do and certainly more than the left do and i'm tired of the hypocrisy. >> this isn't a political issue. i'm a conservative. >> it is. >> no it sglnt there are people who hate the values of the duggars. >> i wouldn't turn my family in to a reality show. that's my values. >> that's your judgment. that's their choice as parents. >> apparently you would. >> you were criticizing the number of children. that is none of your business. >> i think if you are going to have 19 children -- >> it's not your business. >> if you are going to have 19 children you should supervise them well. these parents say -- >> can you control your children all the time? i sure can't control mine all

the time. >> can i talk pastor please? >> certainly. >> these parents say they didn't let their children hold hands until they were engaged. that's bizarre. can't we call it what it is bizarre, controlling, manipulative bizarre. >> do you hear the children bitter about it? are they saying this is a terrible thing? i saw two happy, well-adjusted girls. it's their business none of your business doctor to get involved with the choices these parents make. >> sure it is. because they are a public family. they decided to be an entertainment event instead of a family. >> just because you watch or don't watch them on tv doesn't give you a right to decide how they conduct their lives, doctor. >> i'm not attempting to run their lives but -- >> you are trying to tell them how many children to have. >> when a 15-year-old man. >> 15-year-old man? >> when a 15-year-old teenager touches girls inappropriately and his parents say by the way,

he is not allowed to hold girls hands, i say gee, i wonder if he is repressed. >> he confessed that. talking about licensed therapist, by the way, my daughter is a counselor, they said they took their girls to licensed therapists and licensed counselors. >> i need to know where they are. >> it's not your business doctor. none of your business. >> pastor we're here as experts. you have to try to control yourself. >> coming up next tonight, right here on "hannity." >> i think the big picture is protecting juvenile's records. i think that's something we want to be advocate for protecting juvenile's records because the mistakes that juveniles make when they are young should be sealed. >> we will have more on the interview with the duggar family and examine the lingering legal questions and a pastor is calling on republicans to clean up the mess democrats have left in his city.

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>> parents are not mandatory reporters. the law allows for parents to do what is best for their child. no victim wants their record, or their minor story to be told. every victim should have the right to tell their own story, not a tabloid. i think the big picture is protecting juvenile's records, and i think that's something that we want to be advocate for protecting juvenile's records because the mistakes that juveniles make when they are young should be sealed. joshua was actually 14 and just turned 15 when he did what he did and i think the legal definition is 16 and up for being an adult preying on a child. this information was released illegally and i'm wondering why all of this press is not going after the system for releasing the juvenile's records. that's a huge story that what our son did 12 years ago, i'm

sure it is major story to them too but hopefully justice will be served on those that release records of juveniles to protect other juveniles from their records being released. >> there's plenty of legal questionings surrounding the family's story. we continue with pastor jeffress and dr. ablow. we played one of the sisters who was a victim here who said it was a thousand times worse by releasing these juvenile records. that this had been dealt with they had forgiven their brother, et cetera. you hear the father making the case those records shouldn't have been released. your reaction from a legal standpoint. >> legally they are correct. morally it is great to know everything about everyone. legally under arkansas law -- by the way, a judge already found recently in arkansas that they

were unlawfully disclosed to people. it should be destroyed. now the arkansas law makes it very clear that the law enforcement agencies shall not, meaning must not, under any circumstances, disclose to the public the identity of any sex crime victim. the argument is we didn't. we redacted. we took a sharpie and crossed out some information but these girls didn't come forward. we know their identity because the report made it clear who it was. >> is there legal liability for them here? >> it's going to be very difficult because you have the city attorney saying you know it is a close call. we have attorney general's opinion saying something different, i interpreted it a different way. go ahead an do it. i think went under the reality star exception. they said here's a guy, for some reason we want to let everyone know about this and we're going to let it loose. >> i think it is a bad policy

for the future. what about the right of the rest of the community to know that somebody that has this acts this way is living amongst them. don't they have the right to know to protect themselves? >> i'm one of those people. i want to know every single person that preyed on a child. that's one side of the scale. the other side is you have an investigation that i believe started as a juvenile. the other side is arguing it began when he was 18 in 2006. i think it began gan in 2003 when he was a 14 15-year-old boy and went to the police station and confessed what he did to law enforcement. we cannot have things that are told when someone is a juvenile -- >> did the parents legally handle in the right way? did the parents by going to the police handle it the right way? >> the answer is it depends. i'm not convinced with what the facts are. your question presupposes what they say is true that they went to law enforcement. >> they didn't hide it from law

enforcement. they haven't to go to law enforcement, did they? >> morally they clearly should have. legally, i think technically they did the right thing. they did go in if they really did speak with a trooper who later turned out to be mr. creepazoid 56 years in prison. >> let's go back to dr. ablow. you think the records should be released and you think the community has a right to know even if it is the case of a juvenile? >> no not at all. i think it is wrong to release juvenile records. i think they have however, been released. what my comments were regarding is the content of the interview so far don't make sense. this is a family that doesn't understand the definition pedophilia. they think their son does not qualify for that definition. when if you are 16 sexually developed and preying on prepews be sent girls you do qualify.

>> one of the sisters was very young. i don't think it makes a difference. in any case clothes or not, i think it falls under that definition right? >> it definitely falls under that definition. they waited, if i a understand the facts correctly they waited a long time to tell authorities is that because they didn't want a youth services or social services investigation of their family that would have asked a lot of questions. >> good question. >> let me go to dr. jeffress. if that sense, did the family make a mistake, did they exacerbate it by having a reality television show on top of all of this? >> look, if i were givinged a viets to the duggars right now and i'm not but if i were i would tell them they need to go home and heal as a family. forget the cameras and they need to heal as a family. frankly, again, that's thoir choice to make. that would be my pastoral counsel. on this law issue, sean it's easy to say, yeah, a 14-year-old

ought to be turned over to the police law enforcement should be called. it's easy to say that if you are talking about someone else's child. if we are talking about our child, think most viewers would understand that try to bring about healing -- and the good news -- how we don't know that they didn't talk to this family and work it out with them. we don't know all of the details. whatever they did has worked with josh. >> mark? >> we don't know that. >> it wasn't just a family. i would say this there were so many instances that he becomes a danger. there's a problem there. who knows whether it is restricted. he told his parents everyone he ever touched in i think at some point it becomes such a problem. what is going nonhis head and the symptoms is he is reaching out and touching people. people should have been called sooner. >> fascinating debate. important questions here.

coming up next tonight on "hannity." >> so much grief in our hearts. i think as parents we felt like failures. here we tried to raise our kids to do what's right to know what's right and yet one of our children made some really bad choices. >> when we come back more on the exclusive duggars interview. and up next we will ask if the family should be forgiven. and later a chicago pastor is calling on democrats for failing his city. the pastor and milwaukee sheriff are here with reaction and mainstream media is once again blaming pam geller for the reactions of radical jihadists. she is here to react to those attacks.

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we're failures. here we tried to raise our kids to do what's right, to know what's right and yet one of our children made some really bad choices. i think as a parent we were devastated. >> i think as parents you feel like a failure when one of your kids does something wrong. you feel like if i had done more training or maybe something else this wouldn't have happened. it was a difficult situation but as we talk to other parents and different ones since then a lot of families have said they have had similar things happen in their families. so this for us of course this is public shame that our son did this back 12 13 years ago. >> we definitely put safeguards in our home. >> yes. and we also talked to our daughters and reminded them about wrong and right touch and about if anybody ever touched you in a wrong way for you to come and tell your mom and dad. >> immediately you tell them.

you have a safe place to share your heart. >> it was an important step for josh to confess to the police what he had done because he had broken the law. we felt if we didn't do this this would be something hanging over his head the rest of his life. when they asked us to do the reality tv show all of this had been taken care of five years before. and we had a clean bill of health from the state. they said you have been through counselling and told the police. >> in our hearts before god we haven't told secrets. we have been protecting those that honestly should be protected. >> after admitting their mistakes and seebing help for their son josh and the sisters, should the duggars be forgive en and understand in some way? here's is andrea tantaros tammy bruce, fox news contributor. this is a complicated issue. you have 19 kids this event happened. they tell police get counseling and five years past and clean bill of health and get a reality show. what are your thoughts, maybe

from a legal point of view from you? >> there is a lot of cognitive disdense here. it is unusual. you have a family that lives it life in public. we're on television almost every day to comment on news of the day here they have a family where who they are is what makes them operate. then you have our society's reaction to reality tv. really being engaged with these individuals because celebrity moves you in to a different realm. i think that is part of what the issue is. in part of the interview they say no family is perfect. that's true. none of us are. yet they are suddenly elevated to a celebrity family framework and i think that is why this departure from what we would consider a moral norm is so difficult. >> is some of the intensity of the hatred that i have seen against them is it because they were so open about religion and christianity and faith? >> for sure. >> there's been a lot. >> for sure.

i agree with everything that tammy said. they weren't a famous family because of wealth or they had a particular skill like fishing and they kept the family values off to the side. they made that the touchstone of the entire series. i agree with everything you said. here's my issue -- their son was a lobbyist for the family research council as recently as 2013. >> he was fired. >> and he was fired. but here's my point. if you are going to have this secret that you keep do you really allow or encourage or have your son assume that position? i say that because i'm all for forgiveness but really sean when you look at what the research council stands for an how they get involved in politics and how they select candidates. >> did they know? >> it is not up to the family research council. it is up to josh and his parents. i have a little issue there. that may not have been the best role for him. >> is the family saying after the counselling and reporting to

the police that from their point of view and getting the seal of approval of the state that they wanted to put that issue behind them. the two sisters that were on tonight, they said this is 1,000 times worst this was released. this is revictimization. >> i think in any situation, whether it is the john and kate plus 8 situation and the divorce in public with so many minor children the kardashians, the situation with adult children dealing with their father and what he is going through. this dynamic. when you bring minor children in to a world that is not normal from the beginning and you have touched on this in the reality situation framework, i think that speaks to the mentality as of the family as a whole. americans, i do believe christians -- i don't identify as a christian. i believe in god. i think it is important for those outside of that realm to recognize it when it is happening. they are being attacked in some way because of that.

but they are also celebrity. >> is there a lack of understanding of christianity? isn't the whole point of christianity that we are all sinners and need forgiveness and that you need salvation? >> you get that in church yes but not on television. not when it is a fantasy reality -- >> in public opinion. y when you said can they be forgiven. it is not my job to forgive the duggars and i'm sure they would agree with that as well. >> you go back to the child stars we watched, not you, you are young. but so many were messed up. isn't fame unhealthy? it is unhealthy for adults. for kids i think it is doubly unhealthy. >> it is and can be but this also happens in households where people aren't famous. here's my issue. sarah palin, you have lee a ya dunham who is celebrated and admitted in her book and had not profoundly apologized for molesting her young sister and

the things she did to her sister are graphic. i know the media doesn't bother anyone's books but her sister forgave her. her sister said i forgive her. she is out of the closet lesbian. instead lea dunham is celebrated. i think there is a double standard. >> because they are christian. you are not a christian and you agree with the double standard. >> i do. when you look at bias you have the celebrity aspects and this is the warning for every viewer you have a framework of the establishment, the left that decides what the narrative is and who we are going to judge. this should bother every american. they can reject the narrative. they can reject the premise. look this should be a kind of private thing that would be happening to the duggars or any family. it is public and -- >> was it a mistake for them to take the show in light of what went on? >> i think when you are raising two children one child let

alone 19 i think moving people in to reality tv in today's modern world is a mistake. >> bad idea. you agree with that? >> i think it is risky and naive of them to think this never would have come out. >> great comments. coming up you will meet the african-american pastor who says some minoritities feel the democratic party has not been loyal to them. we will talk about that later tonight right here. . >> are you stoking the flames? do you relish being the target of these attacks? >> relish being the target? who self promotes to get killed? >> reporter: pam geller cant continues to be attacked by the main stream media. she will be here straight ahead.

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"african-americans have been loyal to the democratic party but a group of african-americans feel the democratic party has not been loyal to us." joining us to explain by what he mane means by that the pastor from the new beginnings church of chicago. pastor brooks with us and milwaukee sheriff and karl stokes with us. welcome to the program. pastor brooks let me start with you. what did you mean by that. >> all you have to do is look across inner cities of america and you will see tremendous problems the same problems over and over. bad schools, no jobs an infrastructure that is chaotic. and most of those cities are ran by democrats. we have been doing the same thing over and over and getting the same results. i'm just saying i believe we need to have competition and competition will make a better place in our community. >> karl i will g to you. you are in baltimore. we saw what happened with the riots there. 40 year high for the month of

may in terms of murders in that city. you had a lot of stimulus money given to you. a billion dollars a year in education. run by democrats for decades. doesn't seem to be helping as an outsider looking in. >> i hear what you are saying sean. i think there are hypocrites on both houses. >> in this case liberals have run the cities that are high-crime areas and drug infested. >> to your point, you are always correct. we have this friendly conversation all the time sean. you are always correct. let me say that and i said this on your show before the weight of what is happening in baltimore is certainly on the elected officials in baltimore. our leadership including myself. it is on us that we have not invested in the communities that need us the most in this city. we are from these communities.

>> we have thrown plenty of money at the problem. money hasn't worked. there's got to be another answer. sheriff, clarke let's bring you in. >> a life under democratic failed policies destructive ideology has hit the black community with the force of a nuclear explosion. it obliterated the black family and emasculated the black male separated them from their children and shackled kids to failing lub public schools mired in generational poverty and obscene rates of unemployment. milwaukee the unemployment rate is 32%. when you look at this monolithic voting pattern it's been a living hell. i'm not going to give the republicans a real pass on this either. what i try to tell people to do or advise them any way is adopt conservative philosophies like hard work preparation,

perseverance love of country and god and personal responsibility. start to think for yourself and go out and vote. once they start to do that, they will know where their vote should go. >> pastor i agree with the sheriff. i don't know if the government is the answer for anybody to be honest. i think government often makes things worse. i know government policies haven't helped. we have 46 million americans on food stamps, a 0 million in poverty and 93 million americans out of the labor force. that's unacceptable and a lot of them are minority in inner city. government hasn't helped them. how do we fix if it? how do we get people to take that responsibility that the sheriff is talking about? >> we have to have all hands on deck. it takes us all as american citizens collaborating to make the communities in the united states a better place. we can't just continue down a path of destruction, continue down a path of doing the same thing and expect a different

result. i agree with the sheriff a lot of the things we are seeing is the result of 50 years of going the same way and getting the same thing. we have to do something different. we have to start to think about our educational system providing choice for school we should be able to allow our tax dollars to follow our children to any school private, charter or public and i believe that's one of the first ways to get out of poverty. >> let me ask you, councilman why is it that we don't know how and why freddie gray died. six officers have been indicted. she has the autopsy report. why won't she release it? >> i'm not in her office and have no idea. by the way, we haven't thrown money at the problem because the money that has come in has not gone to people that need it but big contractors. >> where's the $1.8 billion that you got in stimulus money? >> it didn't go to the communities that need it. it went to the same people who

were getting the money before the money came. they are not african-american. they do not flooif poverty. they are not in these communities. >> are you saying the kids can't succeed without the money from government? they need more from government to make it? aren't you spending over a billion a year on education in baltimore? >> most of the people on golf welfare are not african-american. you know that sean. >> i didn't say that. i am saying in baltimore specifically they have a billion dollars in education money and i don't see things improving. i see murder rate that's gone through the roof. sheriff clarke? >> here's the way forward for the black community. the way forward is for the democratic party to get their boot off our neck let us stand up rebuild our family structure, develop a mind set of self sufficiency, less reliance on government pay more better attention i should say to our kids. give us real education reform.

let us do this ourselves. i believe if that's allowed to happen -- and it's going to take decades, don't get me wrong but only self sufficiency and less reliance on government will turn it around for the black community. >> thank you for being with us. up next on hannity. >> are you stoking the flames. do you relish being the target of these attacks? >> relish being the target? who self promotes to get killed? >> mainstream media goes after pam geller again. geller is here on the record to respond next. ♪ (piano music) ♪ fresher dentures, for the best first impression. love loud, live loud polident. ♪ ♪ fresher dentures... ...for those breathless moments.

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welcome back to "hannity." so son soon after unislamic suspect was arrested it was reported they were planning to kill free speech activist pam geller in an isis style beheading. watch this. >> the law center as you are aware described your group, american freedom defense initiative as an active anti-muslim group. they track hate groups in this country. they describe you as the anti-muslim movement's most visible and flamboyant figure

head. they track hate groups. they are putting you on that list. nothing justifies a beheading or beheading plot but it is important to note this. are you stoking the flames and relish being the target of these attacks. >> relish being a target? who self promotes to get killed? >> here's the director of the islamic society. the law center didn't they have ben carson son their list who saved peoples lives? >> the southern >> no. and ben carson okay? >> and the family research counsel >> yes, who they tried to kill. >> do you want to respond? relish being a target of the beheading. this guy, rahim in boston with

two other people, apparently put in writing they wanted to get you and behead you. >> yes. this is projection. somehow aaron burnett covers beheadings if you're into self promotion, you don't go into counting jihad work. in muslim countries they kill you for blaspheme. in the west they kill your name and asassinate your character. >> i pray the one who gives him takes life protects both of you. >> why does this keep happening

in the name of your religion? >> there are people who do all kinds of things in the name of religion. >> in the name of your religion. this is happening in the name of islam and mohammed. >> mr. hannity. let me explain it to you. islam protects the life the quaran does not tell anyone to kill anyone if he or she does blaspheme. excuse me. isn't the penalty death? >> that is the problem of that kinds of countries. they can do whatever they want to do in the name of religion. it is the responsibility of people like me and who believe in the true islam to stand up and say that, is what we've been saying blaspheme is not punishable by death.

>> one thing 489, slave nonbelievers wherever you find them. >> yes, yes. >> let me speak. whenever you meet the unbelievers strike them at their necks which is what jihadists in boston wanted to do to me. the death penalty can result from blaspheme charges under sharia in muslim majority countries like afghanistan, sudan and the uae. in pakistan you have muslim mobs who lynch those accused with no proof. >> exactly. that is why -- >> we're almost out of time. emam. let me ask you. she quoted the quaran to you. >> yes. yes. >> don't you interpret that as violent? >> no. no. let me explain to you.

islam recognizes second amendment. that we must understand but puts restrictions on people in terms of when they attack us or when they aggressed upon us. and, the quaran you're saying is where the muslim was under prosecution, being killed and asked to defend and asked to fight against those that are fighting against them. >> violence in the old testament and new testament isiptive. >> i have remained victorious through terror. >> the question of the day is next. let's take a look at your credit. >>i know i have a 786 fico score, thanks to experian.com. so what else are you going to throw in?

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that is all the time we have left this evening. we hope you set your dvr so you nef miss an episode because we miss you. we hope have you a great weekend. the o'reilly factor is on tonight. >> this grotesque level of inequality is immoral, it is bad economics. >> income inequality. hillary clinton making it a centerpiece of her campaign and many americans are buying into the belief that the u.s.a. is an unfair country. tonight, we'll tell you the no spin truth. the fbi has a duty to investigate any appearance of impropriety. they have to go in and look. they can go. they won't go. >> charles krauthammer has said a number of very provocative things on the factor. tonight, we will have his greatest hits. >> i demand a recount. >> also ahead gutfeld and mcguirk on jerry seinf