bill de blasio in new york does not think donald trump represents most americans. rudy giuliani says and your rising crime values do? that's tomorrow. it's 5:00 in new york city city and this is "the five." there's been a lot of political debate swirling over the confederate flag and gun control in the wake of the tragedy of south carolina that left nine dead. we'll get to that in just a minute. but first, just four days after that devastating shooting the emanuel african methodist episcopal church opened its doors yesterday.

>> it has been rough. we've, some of us have been downright angry, but through it all god has sustained us. we have shown the world how we as a group of can come together and pray and work out things that needs to be worked out. a lot of folks expected us to do something strange and to break out in a riot. well they just don't know us. the doors of mother emanuel is open on this sunday. it sends a message to every demon in hell and on earth. >> more than 1,000 people attended the service and many more paid their respect at

individual vigils honored the victims and their families. the tragedy has actually brought the community closer together. >> there's no doubt when you're mind and your heart are consumed with hatred and with racist motivations motivations, that he sought to create a race war, in this country, what he has done for south carolina and charleston is he has brought our community together. the entire state now is without any question taking a leap forward. what the enemy meant for evil, i believe god will bring good out of it. >> kind words, intelligent words. what do you think? >> your face is amazing because i think what the reverend said is just right on target and i think tim scott picked up on this. the intent here was race riots,

a race war. what we see is people marching across that bridge. the neighboring white church has come across with purple flowers. this is unbelievable. this is south carolina. there's a lot of segregation in the state. people said you know what it's time for a different way. to me it is emotional and inspiring. the devil was at work. this is an act of absolute base evil to go into a prayer meeting with a gun and kill people and instead you see people who have said that's just the way it's been down here white and black folks don't hang around each other, you see people making a statement based on love. to me it is always incredible. >> i do want to say this about south carolina. i've spent time there. i find a very nice place to be with people getting along very well. my experience wasn't that it was segregate segregated. i saw people in different houses

of worship. they have come together to worship and also show respect for the victims and their families and the mourning they have done together. >> it's very tragic that sometimes it takes something as horrible as death to bring people together. if you look at all of the institutions over the last year that have been attacked and demonized, they all performed heroicily. if you look at the police who have been attacked for doing their jobs police within a few hours caught this guy, didn't have to fire any weapons, and brought him back to justice. fox news has been attacked viciously for doing what we do and it was a fox news viewer who saw this while watching "fox and friends" called in the tip, and got this guy nabbed. christianity has been under attack recently for not making a hypothetical gay wedding cake. the fact that these christians

came together after this tragedy and forgave this shooter in court like that is just unbelievable, so i was really happy to see that. >> it was a tough day in church yesterday. i was sitting there and you look around at these little church ladies in their hats and their bags. i couldn't help but picture some of the faces we saw on the screen after the shooting and these are the type of person that this monster came in attack attacked. let's do the opposite of a race war. whatever you encounter in your life you try to figure out what can i do as an individual to make a difference. let's make sure to do whatever we can to not do that. the fighting and bickering we have seen afterwards is disheartening. >> in tragedies, people do come together. it is not surprising to me when

this happens. you talked about the forgiveness. there's something about that. i want to be careful about the way i say this because i'm not a big forgiveness guy. sometimes after tragedies -- i remember it happened after colombi colombine. i lead forgiveness to god. i'll pull the switch. as i do it i'll say god have mercy on your soul but it's different. >> and you're supposed to be the funny guy. >> the thing is i think you said you were inspired by forgiveness. were you really or did you feel you were supposed to be? >> i was shocked and inspired by

it. listen everybody reacts to tragedies in different ways. i'm not going to second guess the way these people have reacted to the tragedy. you may want to flip the switch but they can still want to forgive them because that's their moral compass. >> forgiveness is about your own internal compass. that's about being able to move on for yourself and getting right with what happened. i don't know if it has anything to bear on this monster, whether he notices or not people forgave him. he might be upset about people forgiving him. i think it has to do with the individual in how they go on in processing and processing their life. >> i'm open to staying angry. if anyone out there don't want to forgive, you can join me. >> i find it overwhelming that people in the midst of such abuse can somehow say there's something re

redemptive factor, if you will. >> because there's a spirituality. you see how this has manifested to a teachable moment in charleston charleston. how do you explain the difference? >> i think the church has been there as a voice for black people so it is organized. you have older people versus very young and uneducated black people. i think everybody is learning. a lot of times people don't see racism or people have been reluctant to acknowledge racism. we have to get along. some people don't want to see there's a racial difference in america. guess what? people are seeing it. eyes are open because there's no way you can't say the kids in

ferguson or baltimore, those kids are out of control. here it is hard to say people in a prayer meeting are out of control. >> no one is saying that. >> that's what i'm saying. i think there's an opportunity here to say this was rank and wrong, yes, i'm angry about it but guess what out of the most foul situation, here comes the flower of hope. >> there are few opportunities here to look at this if you look at the way people react to a muslim terrorist attack such as ft. hood they say it is workplace violence. there's not a lot of emphasis on describing even the victims. the president wouldn't even call them christians. he said it was an indiscriminate random attack. he is not calling as it is. he's trying to separate muslims from the jihad. i understand what he's trying to do. here you have a nut job who is motivated by hatred and the president calls him racist and

all of a sudden white america needs to reflect. i wish the president and everybody could kind of coalesce in the way we deal with muslim jihadists in the same way we deal with this guy. >> i'm all for being honest and not engaging in some sort of pc language. workplace terrorism or anything like that. >> yeah. >> obama doesn't want to start a religious war either. he's trying to downplay that because we want to have the cooperation of other countries, but this is pretty clear. i was surprised when people didn't want to deal with the clarity. >> i want to thank you for that because that's what's coming up next. >> well thank you. >> the tragedy in south carolina has already turned political and debate over the confederate flag and gun control own the president's use of the n-word has intensified. we discuss next. >> we are standing here and

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the massacre at predominantly black church last

week is sparking race relations in this country. did president obama go too far when aroundddressing the issue? >> it is incontrovertible that race relations has improved significantly during my lifetime and yours and that opportunities have opened up and attitudes have changed. yeah that is a fact. what is also true is that the legacy of slavery, jim crow discrimination in almost every institution of our lives, you know that casts a long shadow and that's still part of our dna that's passed on. we're not cured of it. racism we are not cured of clearly. and it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say [ bleep ] in public.

that's not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. >> the president doesn't regret saying it. african-american leaders are coming to his defense. >> i think in that instance president obama was being the professor that he used to be before he became a united states senator. when i first heard it this morning, i said to myself my lord what was he thinking about and then i saw the whole thing as you just put it. i know what he's thinking about. he's trying to give a lesson trying to teach a lesson. >> those who have been pressing obama to speak more articulately about race this is part of the pay off. this is a man who knows so much more than than he's been allowed to speak about in public places. >> it is a very powerful word obviously. does this word right now, right

on the heels of charleston do you think this unites people or do you think this divides people? >> you know me well enough to know because you love hip hop i just can't stand the license that been given mostly to black musicians in using this word, saying we are reclaiming the power of the word by using it and call each other it. this is stupidity. this is an act that i think was intended to dehumanize people to suggest they are less than human. for these people to perpetuate -- and now for president obama to use it in public it's a mistake. there's a teachable moment here. he never uses that word when he's talking to me because it it would make me feel unablecomfortable

and defensive. the polls indicate that white people think black people are less intelligent and trustworthy and patriotic. >> i don't know about those polls. i know the president seems to be taking an isolated incident from a psychopath racist and extrapolating to indict the entire american community to say we have racist dna. i don't know about that. kimberly kimberly what did you think of this? i've been wanting the president to say this word. i've been urging the president to say this word and i want him to use it more. >> do you feel better now? really? the president has not been allowed to speak his mind. really? he's the president of the united states. he can say what he wants and what he believes and what he feels. i don't think the dialogue has been moved forward for

understanding by use of the word by the president. >> i agree with that. >> that's true. >> he's dignified. he does not need to even give that word utterance or license. >> he as the president of the united states is somewhat inhibited because he doesn't want anybody, when he's talking about race to say he should get involved. >> no way. >> he can say whatever he wants. >> right. >> at the end of his term he doesn't seem what anyone thinks anyways. he's exactly in the point where he can say what he wants. i think what you were trying to say and what some of us may have been feeling is you don't want to be lumped in with this

monster because you have the same skin color. it's very hard to sit there and feel you're being lumped in with this guy just because we also happen to be right. >> this was an act of an individual of an individual of one person. >> are you sick of being lectured by democrats about being racist? from what i recall i think it was the republican party that freed the slaves. i think the confederate flag was the flag of the democratic party in the south. you have tim scott, black senator, south carolina. you have an indian american running for president. what is with all these constant lectures about racists? >> you make a salient point, but i'm not sick of being called a rasz racist. perhaps the president was using that power to lessen its word.

let's all say it. kimberly you first. >> no thanks. >> his podcast is getting tons of publicity. first he got the president and then he got the president to say something controversial. some have been calling for south carolina to remove the confederate flag from state grounds. >> we are here in a moment of unity in our state without ill will to say it's time to move the flag from the capital grounds. [ applause ] for good and for bad, whether it is on the state house grounds or in a museum the flag will always be a part of the soil of south carolina,but this is a moment in which we can say that flag while an integral part of our past does not represent the future of our state.

by removing a symbol that divides us we can move forward as a state in harmony and we can honor the nine blessed souls who are now in heaven. >> what do you think? >> i think she spoke passionate passionately and eloquently in the hopes to heal hearts and minds. i'm a states right issue person. if they want to do that in their state, it should be their decision to do so. >> are you offended by the confederate flag? >> it is a symbol of hate to me. no question about that. i think it was a symbol of people who wanted to break apart from the united states of america, the country i love so dearly people who wanted to secede from this country, so i don't understand. people say it is a matter of our transitions and our ancestors

fought in that war. you were fighting against the united states of america. i don't understand it. >> i don't know. he has hatred in his heart maybe. >> i have never lived in the south, so i don't think i can understand the symbolism of it. this is just one of those issues that people who are right there are very passionate about. >> the governor says the time to remove it is now. i don't agree with that. i think it was the time when the civil war ended. i don't have a problem with some guys driving around with it on their truck. but the state house, i don't think it should have ever been at the state house. >> let me tell you a quick story. this is a painful story. >> quickly. >> my kids when they were growing up they loved "dukes of

hazard." they say to me, dad, we want the car. we want the car. i go off to the toy store and what do i find on the side of the car is the confederate flag. many on the left have used the killing to push for stricter gun control. karl rove explains why that argument might fall flat. >> maybe there's some magic law that will keep us from having more of these. the only way to guarantee us to from having these acts to happen in society is to remove guns from society. >> if you remove all guns criminals are going to be the only ones that have guns right? >> we have good laws on the book

with respect to guns. if we see someone or someone has mental health issues or a record you make sure they don't have guns. the answer isn't to take them away. >> when he came out and made the statement the other day about new gun control laws none of those proposed laws would have prevented this incident. >> i read a terrific piece pointing out all the democratic proposals would not have prevented this but to my mind i don't understand. most gun owners are in favor of stronger background checks do not see the need for people going around the country with tremendous automatic weaponry. there are limits. a lot of people especially after obama said something, there's a rush to get the kind of bullets that go into automatic weapons. >> that's true. the one thing obama has been good for the economy is the gun

industry. >> maybe the answer is not to have this conversation around the time when something traumatic like this has happened. would it have done anything this this specific case? i'm not sure we know for sure exactly where he got the gun and all the details around it because all those reports have been so conflicted. maybe to sit down and talk about the laws that are on the books and what makes sense and what doesn't. >> gun-free zones seem pretty dangerous, don't they? >> i agree. the time is not after a crisis. i didn't like that color coding thing we did after 9/11. i don't think it is good to enact gun laws after a tragedy. it's the wrong time. i don't think it is a good time to remove the flag after this incident. you do it when you're thinking clearly. the latest on the manhunt for the two new york escapees. >> reporter: this is the first

major break about the case. a franklin county sheriff tells me they thinks they're closing in on the men and could catch them within the next 24 to 48 hours. state police launched fresh searches of homes and cabins in the thick woods. police swarming the area after a local man armed with a handgun went to check on his hunting camp and saw a jar of peanut butter and water inside. he said someone ran out the front door. various reports say there were boots, bloody socks, toiletries and fingerprints left behind. there was a conclusive determination that the men were in this cabin. they seem confident that they're still here and they will be caught. >> great news. coming up on "the five,"

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brian williams won't be returning to his anchor chair at nbc news following his six-month suspension for lying about his helicopter getting shot down in 2003. now he'll be at msnbc as the breaking news anchor. >> i'm proud of this how this network dealt with this took it seriously, took issues of creditability and integrity

seriously, and made brian pay a heavy price. i'm also glad to work for a company that provides an opportunity to earn back trust and earn back a second chance. >> but a media critic is criticizing a move. >> is credibility is what you base a new division on it's what you sell how cannot banishing him be a good idea and why do you move him from nbc -- he's not trustworthy enough to be the anchor for nbc news, but he is for msnbc. a liar is a liar. banish him. well most of it he didn't say on the air on nbc platforms. no, it's still a lie. the moral reason here is so tortured you have to wonder why would nbc just not end its relationship with him.

>> i think he makes a compelling point. >> i think it all comes down to what you think of msnbc. it's all opinion. the people that are on the air at nbc, the anchors, the news people. on the part of nbc, it's genius. you put him there and see if he can rebuild. in business there's what we call a free option. it costs them nothing to see if he can go on the air at msnbc and rehab himself, which he might be able to do. he's a very charming individual. he didn't get where he was for nothing. he goes on there, does the apology tour, wins people back, and maybe help nbc in the process. >> she's right. that's what they call it free option. this is a business model for them. they don't have anything to lose. he's willing to go back over there and see if he can make something of it.

he doesn't have anything to lose either. otherwise that was going to be defining his legacy. now he can perhaps do something else so it doesn't complete the books on him. >> so you can lie and get away with it? >> he's right about that. >> i feel bad for him. he was on a helicopter and maybe he wasn't getting shot down, but i tell tall tales when i get off of regular airplanes. msnbc is nota very cutting-edging network. brian williams -- >> 10 million people will go from watching him to 10 people. at msnbc when you lie, you get a

raise. i guess he's taking a pay cut. >> he's starting fights. >> they're not going to come after me. you'll never believe in candidate students are supporting in the 2016 case or who they think they're supporting anyway. a new video. you won't want to miss this.

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the real question that needs to be asked is "what is it that we can do that is impactful?" what the cloud enables is computing to empower cancer researchers. it used to take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome; with the microsoft cloud we can analyze 100 per day. whatever i can do to help compute a cure for cancer, that's what i'd like to do. the 2016 race is heating up and every candidate is hoping to get the youth vote but they might be a bit surprised to hear which candidate students are actually talking about. >> it's a full house. there's ten guys running. what do you think a candidate

needs to do to stand out? >> he needs to show what he's doing to work on. >> he did write a book in the past and he killed people in a war. is that a reason you would vote for him? >> not because he killed people. he was in a war. >> i don't think he's going to win because a lot of people here push for hillary clinton a lot. i think hillary clinton has the best chance of winning. >> so you say john bon jovi's campaign is living on a prayer at this point? >> yeah. >> come on. if he put on a polo i think you should sue. >> my job is not safe. i like this guy. i think he did a nice job. i noticed they paid a little

subtle homage to me at the beginning. they asked about stamos stamos akastamos aka stamos aka uncle jesse. there are people like this out there and they have no idea what's going on. >> people ask me that. they ask me if those are real people. >> they really are. >> i've been there when he's doing this job. sometimes it's at hooters. >> did you hear the punch line? they said they were going to vote for hillary clinton anyway. when they got to the end, that's why they didn't know any of the candidates or they were conned by general mills. i know hillary clinton is running and i'm going to vote

for her. i think that's the problem for republicans out there. >> they were just nodding their heads. >> when you watch the whole thing and he presses them they go into answers on these individuals that don't exist. i was walking in front of our building the other day. somebody asked me for directions to the lego store, which was right near us and the tourist looked at me and said can you talk. i recovered and told them where it was. >> somebody asked me how to get to carnegie hall and i said practice practice practice. >> no. >> he'll be here all week. >> i asked kimberly if she was in support of bon jovi candidacy, she said she was halfway there. >> really?

i wouldn't vote for him unless he was qualified and a person of integrity with good ethics. >> i don't know if it is that people. i don't think young people have ever known what's going on. >> the 60s, when they were anti-war and women's movement i think they were more politically conscious. i think these folks are politically dead to the world and they're faking it. they're lying about it. >> maybe in the hippy era they were more politically aware, but were they making better decisions? >> no. that's for you to decide. >> it's a business thing. when the economy is good people tune out. maybe it's because the country is going great. >> i think they have been brainwashed and they knew exactly what they were going to do walking in the door. when you watch that video, when they got to the end, they said hillary is running and that's who i'm voting for. they're not paying attention to anyone in the race.

taylor swift is so powerful. she just went head to head with the world's biggest company and won. her major victory over apple is next.

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taylor swift is one of the hottest and most powerful musicians on the planet right now. remember this music video? ♪ and a player's going to play play play play and a hater's going to hate hate hate, hate shake it off, shake it off ♪ ♪ and a player's going to play play play, play, baby i'm just going to shake, shake, shake, shake, shake it off ♪ >> that was a long clip. one thing she wasn't going to shake off was one of apple's policies for its new music app. they weren't going to pay musicians royalties. it announced it would be changing its policy. she fought back and won.

>> she's the new oprah. starbucks is going to give her a new chai tea. i know it. i'm predicting it. >> i don't know you could do that. >> let me try and get this back on track for a second here. >> sorry. we're on the air. >> listening to taylor swift talk about how she wants to get paid can be hard for some to stomach because she's as rich as oprah, apple who is also loaded saying ing saying they're not going to pay the artists, she just had the power to get out there and say it. what do you think? >> taylor swift may be rich as i'll get out, but apple is

richer. they were going to enrich themselves further. i happen to think people who are creative and make music, they're creators and they should be rewarded. >> we're going to give it away for free three months. apple wasn't getting paid during that period either but they have the luxury of saying it's for free. you're not going to give me an ipod for free. >> she's an amazing negotiator. we could have used her on the bergdahl trade. >> you're going right there? >> yeah. if it's not too late maybe we can use her for iran. >> steve jobs was a real personality himself, but they got a jump on when taylor swift said to shake it. i love taylor swift. when the family is away i put

on taylor swift and i dance, dance, dance. >> he was completely distracted during that whole video. >> the point is she's powerful. she has a voice. she's using it. other people are now going to benefit from it so i like that. >> i thought artists didn't care about money. i thought it was about the art. >> that's why she's half naked in the video. >> wow. >> she's classy. >> she's a classy girl. >> we got to go. one more thing up next.

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here we are. it's time now for "one more thing." tom, what do you have to entertain us? >> "red eye with tom shillule" is on tonight. thank you for taking a picture. >> thank you. >> i'll see you at 3:00 a.m. >> see, they like the old host. they say i like the old host.

>> we're going to be watching. congratulations. very exciting. the old host is thrilled for you as well. >> on a brighter note, you remember jimmy lee? he was a titan on wall street. his son got up and gave the eulogy today. he talked about his dad, because of his job, went to work every day at 5:00 in the morning and would leave a note for his kids about something they did the night before. it was really touching and it reminded everyone there to live your life every day as if the person is going to write your eulogy is watching because they probably are. some exciting news that was shared with our viewers this morning. take a listen to this.

>> we've had an extra little man or girl onset set for the past five months. >> my husband and i are having a baby. >> we're very excited for her. this is thrilling. her parents are super excited. it's going to be their first grandchild. it is very exciting. we're super happy. we love you. baby shower on the way. all right. television history, when you think about that what do you think of? the moon landing, the o.j. simpson and bronco chase? then this. >> we asked you if you would like to see jesse watters substitute for me on "the factor." most of you yes.

june 25th watters will host. he'll have to have a suit and tie. >> there you go. the people have spoken. you got to do what the people want. this thursday i'll be on "the factor" so please tune in. >> all right. all right. here's the fun news from the weekend. in milan, italy, at the world fair 2015 they got together 60 pizza makers the best in italy, and they made a mile long pizza. it was an 18 hour wait but you could have a slice for free. 1.5 tons of mots rel la 2 tons of pizza sauce.

how are you going to beat that for a good weekend? >> it sounds so delicious. >> i'm starving. >> set your dvrs. thank you for being here. "special report" is next. this is a fox news alert. the city of charleston south carolina prepares for a week of funerals following last week's massacre at a historically black church. the governor is calling for the confederate flag to be removed from the grounds of the state capital. she's been joining by a growing list of lawmakers. it's our top story tonight. >> reporter: late today, south carolina's top republicans, including the governor and both senators called for the confederate flag to be removed from the north lawn of the state house in clemolumbia. that's after the suspect in last week