do not be banal. thanks for watching us tonight. ms. megyn is next. please remember spin stops here because we are definitely looking out for you. breaking tonight a new bombshell in the criminal case that touched off riots as one newspaper publishes what it claims are the details of the autopsy report in the death of freddie gray in baltimore revealing that the medical examiner concluded the death was a medical and legal accident and only ruled it a homicide because she was told the police failed to belt freddie gray into that police van. welcome to "the kelly file." the baltimore sun published what it is calling the first details from freddie gray's autopsy report. key findings include conclusion

that gray suffered high impact injury but report is riddled with guesses and there are real questions about whether this can serve as the basis for a murder charge. in addition and this is significant, there are now angry press releases from both the state's attorney's office and the defense attorney's over who leaked these details to the sun and why. tonight we have some of the smartest folks on this case. dr. michael bodden criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. thank you all for being here. the sun does not publish the autopsy report. they say that they have spoken with sources who have seen the report and have the information. the only people who we know have it are the state's attorney and the medical examiner. so they are suggesting perhaps i guess the medical examiner's office spoke with somebody. why are there so many

suppositions in it? i want to show the audience. the medical examiner surmised that he meaning freddie gray may have gotten into -- it is possible he was hurt. his body likely couldn't move into that position and his most significant injury most likely occurred before the stops. the medical examiner surmised he could have gotten on his feet. is this unusual? >> it is unusual because medical examiner is concerned about the autopsy findings. what do the spine bones look like in the neck? what does the spinal cord look like? more important than that the autopsy has to be fully released so that we are not looking at somebody's spin on it. but also it doesn't stand by itself. freddie gray was in the hospital for seven days. they did a lot of work on him at the hospital. they evaluated him, did tests on

him on the day he came in. seven days later when he deceased an autopsy and things have changed a bit. maybe he was operated on. we don't know about it. they have all kinds of neurological tests to see what damage was done at the time he came into the hospital. >> it's a good point. the autopsy in these murder cases istypically all you have. here they had a live patient in the hospital for days. and that is not mentioned anywhere. mark i ask you, we now have the medical examiner reportedly saying this was an accident. and the reason we get to homicide is because the cops didn't belt the guy in. then we have a report that this may have happened or may have happened a different way. could have been this way or could have been this other way. how do you build a murder case? >> i tell you how i build reasonable doubt on the defense side i read maybe, probably

most likely i'm thinking reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt because the state must remove every reasonable hypothesis of innocence. so you can assume it is possible he could have been injured so severely before he got into the van causing partial, partial situation where he cannot breathe, partial paralysis and in the van maybe this happened possibly this happened. all you have to do is create reasonable doubt and you don't get that charge. >> i don't understand how -- i get the theory is that the cops, they are guilty because they didn't belt him in. whatever happened in the van it is on them. who knows what they argue. the original report was they heard freddie gray jumping around and it sounded like he was trying to hurt himself. what is the defense going to do with that argument when they have a medical examiner who has

to tell the truth that they don't know what happened. >> let's break down the charges. the driver is charged with depraved murder. megyn, i submit that even if you believe everything that the medical examiner puts in here it doesn't go to depraved heart because she is saying it's the omission to act. depraved heart is like it is new year's eve and you do something. you test your gun and fire in the middle of the crowd even though you don't want to kill anyone. that is acting with a depraved heart. here they are saying it is an accident but because aid wasn't rendered that is a depraved heart. we don't know if the driver knew the state of a prisoner behind him. >> and they don't know when the injury took place. they are saying it likely

occurred between the second and third stops. what if it occurred after the fifth stop when nobody had seen -- i don't see how the prosecution has a beyond a reasonable murder case here. >> they don't. let me just add to what arthur is saying. if they can prove that the driver slammed on his brakes intentionally knowing this guy was in a very vulnerable position. he was on his belly, hands behind his back. that is on them. that is a problem the officers have to answer for. unless there is some type of intentional slamming on the brakes to disregard his life then -- >> megyn, what we are doing is reacting to the newspaper's spin. we have to see the facts. the autopsy as was written and all of the hospital records that permits interpretation.

>> there is not going to be anything in the autopsy that conclusively says this is when the injury took place. you know that's not going to happen. >> but that may be in the hospital records. it's interesting that there is no reference in the newspaper article to what happened seven days in the hospital. that is important to identify. people get injured and have neck injuries and can be partially paralyzed. they don't have to die right away. was his neck injury when he is helped into the van? >> here is the question for the jurors about the driver of the car. did he know or should he have known? was it reasonable for him to know or believe that him driving and decel rating -- that is what the autopsy is saying act of deceleration his act was likely to cause serious injury or death. people ride around without seat belts all the time. he is vulnerable.

is he going to cause death? >> and they just implemented this policy of requiring the seat belts days before this arrest days before. and so far we are not true the prosecution can prove that policy was communicated to these particular officers. >> in light of how prejudice already the potential jury pool assuming it stays in that jurisdiction are they may make the finding that there were no windows in the van. so if gray got to a standing position he couldn't see where the van was going. secondly the driver at some point that he could be decel rating and that could place him in a more dangerous position. i can see jurors wanting to slam them with the highest charge even though legally i don't think it gets there. >> that's why you go on a bench trial. >> the autopsy seems to be saying they don't believe that the injury happened outside the van. they believe it was --

>> that's not based on the autopsy. that is based on speculation as to what might have happened. it is very unusual to get this kind of injury from that kind of a deceleration. now, maybe it can happen but very few cases like this where somebody gets a fatal cervical spine injury from deceleration in the back of a van. >> what do you make of the fact that in the report they are talking about the fact that freddie gray was supposedly on his knees after the alleged injury on his knees slumped over on a bench. could that be possible with a spine injury? >> of course it can be. we have all sorts of people who have spine injuries in wheel chairs who can move arms and legs. it depends on what the actual spinal cord showed at the time of autopsy and what it showed when it was examined while he was alive on the first day he comes into the hospital.

>> i have to ask you about this vogue article on the prosecutor in this case. she says she doesn't regret one word she said when she stood before the public and said i hear your calls for no justice no peace this is our moment. doesn't regret one word as she does a vogue photo shoot. is this appropriate? >> not the way i was raised. the prosecutors i work for, it's opposite. she is doing the absolute opposite. you are supposed to be as professional as you can. a shoot in "vogue" magazine is not prosecutorial. >> it doesn't seem like her number one agenda is to have the truth. >> we get the freedom of six cops on the line. good to see you both. thank you. also tonight a left wing

group has published a list of a dozen women who have challenged radical islam and they have challenged these women. wait until you hear what they are labelling these women. some are saying what they have done is create a hit list for would-be jihadis. plus with new calls out to crack down on hate groups a warning about where that will likely lead. and then the white house today defended the president's controversial comments on race by saying he is trying to start an honest conversation on the issue. racism we are not cured of it. clearly. it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say [ bleep ] in public. that's not the measure of whether racism still exists or not.

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racism we are not cured of it. clearly. and it's not just a matter of it not being polite to say [ bleep ] in public.

that's not the measure of whether racism still exists or not. >> that was president obama in an interview released yesterday with mark marren. today the white house had to defend the president's decision to use one of the most racially charged words in the english language. the president's senior adviser saying her boss is glad this triggered this honest conversation on race. did it? are we there? >> no. and we're not going to get there by virtue of what the president said. i don't have any problem with the president saying that word because he didn't really use the word. using the word implies that you label somebody with that term. that's what the problem with that word is when people use it as a label. that is not the context in which he used the word. he was mentioning the word. he wasn't really using it. we are so concerned with being

careful not to be labelled ourselves that we on this network and every other network oent allow him to be heard saying that. we bleep it out which in some ways i think is a little absurd. it illustrates the problem. he wants an honest conversation about race but dealing with a people who are so afraid of being labelled racist especially white americans because they are the ones that are most often accused of this and in many cases for a long time it was a legitimate cause. it was built into laws and permitted and tolerated. it was culturally acceptable. the institutionalization has been oblit rated. >> the president doesn't seem to agree. he keeps making comments. he said things have gotten

better. don't tell me they haven't. he went on to say the legacy of jim crow that cast a long shadow. that is part of our dna. we are not cured of it. >> professor obama may say that and may be right about that. what troubles me here is that he and other liberals call for an honest conversation about race. they don't want an honest conversation about race. the issue of race has been enormously beneficial to president obama. the things said about other white presidents belie that. i think americans by and large were impressed with barack obama and wanted to see him move up in the world and become president in part because he was black. i think his race has been an asset to him politically and otherwise perhaps. and when he says he wants an

honest conversation about race and he uses the n word or says the n word without using it and we are so afraid of being accused of racism in america that we won't let him be heard saying that. that gives you an idea of the climate and why nobody wants to have that conversation because if you held a view that racism is a human characteristic and people of all races share it and you can never wipe it out and all you can do is try to create a society in which it is institutionally impermissible and regarded as a form of hatred which i think we are on a long way to doing i think people who want to make that argument may be afraid that they would be accused of being racist for making it. that's the problem we have. the great triumph was making it unacceptable in america but placed in the hands of those who would exploit it sharpton and

others who use that for all sorts of racial demagoguery. >> is it just race? the president seems to cast this judgment on the american people about how we are part of our dna still. our dna. i think a lot of people say it isn't. he says it is. and then in the same day he is speaking to a group of muslims and talks about how he lamented the distorted impression that many americans have of muslims and stress we need to be much more conscious about religious tolerance of muslims. he wants religious tolerance towards muslims because he feels we have a distorted impression of them. >> he seems to be an advocate against bigotry in certain cases but not all. he doesn't seem to be too

preoccupied with antichristian bigotry. he seems intolerant of the way that christians practice their faith, this whole case against the little sisters of the poor being an example of that with the administration fighting the little sisters of the poor in the supreme court. this is the kind of thing that goes on. i would say about that that the president has been too selective in this for him to have credibility on the issue. >> it's interesting to hear the messaging. we have some folks talking out of both sides of their mouth and we will speak about that in the next segment. the "new york times" said any hopes of a post racial era now seem fanciful under this president. >> one has to ask the question to what extent he is responsible of that. whether his conduct in office has made things worse, not better. >> great to see you. >> you, too. there is outrage in oklahoma after an illegal immigrant runs

down a beloved tv sports caster. see why this could be charged as a murder case. we have big developments in the search for two escaped killers. their relationship with the woman who helped them and what her husband is saying about the whole thing. stay tuned for this. >> i was scared. >> something else to tell you. i said what's that? she said their plan was they want to kill you.

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a love affair. a quest. the next horizon. everyone loves the chase. we have to allocate resources to address these hate groups and these hate crimes. we need vigorous prosecution and investigation of these hate groups and the resources to do so. >> that was the president of the naacp calling for a new government crack down on hate groups and prosecution of them in the wake of the racially driven mass murder of nine

african-americans in a church last week. is that really where we want to go? president and ceo of the foundation for individual rights and education and author of "freedom from speech." thank you for being here. that is the question. it sounds noble. a racist skin head type murders nine african-americans and the response is we have to crack down on the groups that hate african-americans and hate in general with prosecution and investigation. and you say? >> that hate speech is not -- there is a lot of misinformation on this. hate speech is protected speech in the united states. what you go after is violence. what you go after is conspiracy to murder. if you go after just opinions and expression of opinions we dislike you are not only doing something that is unconstitutional but something that is unwise. >> to those who say greg must be in favor of the white supremacists and sympathetic

towards the skin head cause? >> that is the way some people argue right now. i have defended throughout my career people across the political spectrum. as soon as you start allowing policing for opinions no one is provocative or interesting to say. >> do you find it interesting tomorrow night we are going to air an hour long special on the beheading of an american woman in oklahoma and the attempted beheading of her co worker. we have the exclusive with the co worker speaking out about her ordeal. by a man who self radicalized who had become a radical muslim online. and listen to what the same head of the naacp had to say about why we need to expand it from the individual to the group. listen. >> this young man was

indoctrinated with an ideology of white nationalism or racism. the point being is we have to look at individual acts of brutality but at the atmosphere from which it emerged. we have to address that. >> so if you make that same point about the muslim community, those in the muslim community who are becoming radicalized and talking about the value of jihad you get called a bigot. if you say you have to expand it from one man's act to take a look at a community you get called a bigot. if you say it in this context it is fine because it is clear that the white supremacists are bad. >> one frustrating thing is the double standards are everywhere. people are like i want to go after these people with this opinion but people who have the same opinion but if i like them more that's completely -- that's

why our founding fathers were so smart to have no exception to the first amendment. >> the white supremacists are allowed to say hateful things when it leads -- how close would their hatred have to be linked to murder to take it out of first amendment realm? >> we are not that limited when it comes to conspiracy to commit a crime. this is the big misunderstanding the dangerous misunderstanding of free speech. free speech is an alternative to violence a way of resolving disputes without resorting to violence. i think it is insane for people to say let's eliminate free speech. >> and it may be beneficial to know exactly where the haters are. it is beneficial to have them speaking out about it. >> that is the one thing that

people do not understand about freedom of speech. it is completely naive to think you are safer to not know if there is a bigot in the room. it is naive to think we can end racism by not saying racist things in public. >> proceed at your own risk is a better policy. >> remember to tune in tomorrow night for our exclusive interview with tracy johnson, the sole survivor of an attempted beheading in oklahoma. here is some of the interview. >> he got to you and what happened next? >> he started slicing my neck. he cut a hole in my face my right index finger and wouldn't stop. and i'm screaming for help.

and didn't think anybody was going to come around. >> that's tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. eastern. that man who attacked her had self radicalized at a controversial mosque and posted controversial pictures on his facebook page of the burning twin towers calling for jihad, celebrating beheadings and then he went into that food processing plant at which he worked with tracy and started yelling arabic phrases as he cut a woman's head off and then tried to cut a second woman's head off. that second woman joins us with the story and her reaction to this case not being treated as terror tomorrow night only right here 9 p.m. new controversy tonight with the folks who grouped dr. ben carson along side the kkk as a hate group. up next why they are now targeting a dozen very well known women for speaking about radical islam.

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and e-trade. i'm monica santiago of fidelity investments, and low fees and commissions are another reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. call or click to open your fidelity account today. from the world headquarters of fox news it's "the kelly file" with megyn kelly. >> the southern poverty law center is making news after publishing a controversial new list. this is the same group that once put presidential candidate and famed pediatric neurosurgeon dr. ben carson on the same extremist list as the kkk. this time the run down of what it says are the most hard line antimuslim women activists in the country.

among them very familiar faces. our next guest says his group was targeted by a crazed gunman after this same group did something similar a couple years ago. tony perkins is the president of the family research council with us by phone. thank you for being here. the family research council was dubbed an extremest hate group by the southern poverty law center. and then the man who shot up your organization and shot a guard later said what? >> well he actually confessed in federal court that he received the information where to find us through the southern poverty law center with their help using their website. three years later there is rarely a day goes by that those who walk under the door are not reminded of the shooting. it takes time for people to get

through the trauma of seeing one of their co-workers shot who literally risked his own life to save his co worker. this guy had over 100 rounds of ammunition. we are seeing the same type of thing play out in south carolina. the key to overcoming the trauma is forgiveness. i think that's what is important is that we see these folks are forgiven. we forgive them the bitterness. i believe we have an obligation to speak out and prevent organizations like this of putting people at risk. >> that is exactly what judicial watch said and described this as a starter kit for jihaddests. if you look at the photos and renderings of the women. this is my rough notes that my producers gave me. you can see. look what they do. they try to demonize the photos.

you can see her there trying to make them look as terrifying as possible. and real damage could come to these women as a result of this portrayal and this imagery they are trying to paint. >> you want to talk about a war on women? the southern poverty law center created this list by marking these 12 women and they have something in common. they are all women and are all conservative and have spoken out not against islam but against radical islam that abuses and kills women. some of these women have experienced this first hand. she grew up in lebanon. we have former police officers investigators, cia officers who know what they are talking about. what legitimate civil rights organization would try to intimidate and silence women? they wouldn't. that's something the taliban would do. >> thank you for being here.

i want to apologize about the technological issues. joining me is richard fowler. is this right? >> i think what they are trying to point out is that hatred no matter where it is wrong. hate cannot drive out hate. only love can do that. i think that is what the southern poverty law center tries to do whether they speak out against bigotry or hatred. they speak about teaching tolerance. >> let's say the christian beliefs that dr. ben carson held before they put him on the list? >> let's think about why they called him out because of his homophobic views of the lgbt community. >> about his biblical views he holds as a christian. they put him on a hate list. the man who spent his life saving the lives of little children. >> i understand where you are coming from. >> counts for nothing.

he is a hater. >> the larger point here is what the southern poverty law center is trying to say. when you use the cloak of religion and your influence to hate against an entire group of people because you feel that it is okay that is down right wrong. >> and so would you say the same about radical muslims? >> exactly. i would say the exact same thing. there is a distinction between radicalized muslims and islamic faith. billions of muslims live peacefully in this country but have been lumped in as radicalized or radical and they are not. you are hating on their entire religion because you hate a small subset of their religion. that is wrong. >> they have had several women on here. >> that is the same

justification. >> they attack several women on here who have been critical of radical islam, not all muslims. you tell me does that make you an extremest who belongs on a hate list? >> no. the point is they justify as saying that just because the black panther party hates all white people it means i hate all white people. that is not true. that is part of the problem. >> is that what everybody said? did you -- >> that is what they justify. >> the source they use? >> when you go around and you make fun of an entire religion and you speak out against the muslim faith because you have a problem with a small subset of muslims, that is spreading hate. they use the cloak of religion. they use the bible and the cross to do it and that is down right wrong, megyn. >> why isn't it just using what

they did? >> that's the thing. if you want to -- >> those who follow it -- >> megyn, you proved a point that i am trying to make. >> they get put on the hate list. >> that's the point i'm trying to make. we should speak out against terrorism and against al qaeda. >> wait a minute. the distinction, what ms. gellar did, you can speak out against terrorism and isis without condemning the entire religion. her cartoon drawing activity was condemning the entire religion and that is down right wrong. where you know it. >> now it is my time. judge jeanine is on that list because she had a guest who said something crazy which she was caught off guard by and came out and apologized for it. what is she doing on that list? >> i'm not talking about her.

i am talking about ms. gellar. >> this is a careless organization who cares not at all about the safety. >> they condemned the kkk and done expansive work as well as the blackck panther party as well as groups that speak hate and groups that inspire folks like daryyn roof to go into a church. >> one of the sources is care. do you they think they are concerned about the hate coming from care which supports hamas? >> i think when you look at -- >> what is your answer to that? what is your answer to my question? answer that question. >> the only way we -- >> i'm going to wrap here. >> either answer the question or let's end. do you think the southern poverty law center has condemned care and what many have documented as its support for hamas which the u.s. recognizes

as a terrorist organization? >> i'm not saying the southern poverty law center does everything right. good to see you. >> good to see you, megyn. >> i love richard. wow. up next the case involving an illegal immigrant charged in the connection with the death of a popular oklahoma tv sports anchor and why it is leading to so much outrage. we have big developments in the search for the two escaped killers. their relationship with the woman who helped them and what her husband is now saying about it. >> she said she would never have gone through with it and that she really loved me and she was in too deep. i have type 2 diabetes. i started with pills. and now i take a long-acting insulin at night. i take mine in the morning. i was trying to eat right, stay active. but i wasn't reaching my a1c goal anymore. man: my doctor says diabetes changes over time. it gets harder to control blood sugar spikes after i eat and get to goal. my doctor added novolog® at mealtime

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helping you fall asleep and stay asleep so your body can heal as you rest. advil pm. for a healing night's sleep. new developments in the death of a beloved sports kaeser in oklahoma city as the man responsible for the death of bob barry jr. faces manslaughter charges and some are wondering what his killer was doing in the country in the first place. trace gallagher with the story. >> he was one of the most popular local sports anchors in the country, worked in oklahoma city for 32 years and was sports caster of the year six times. police say he was driving his motorcycle in the left lane when the driver in the right lane made an illegal u-turn smashing

into bob parbarry and killing him. the suspect is a mexican national in this country illegally. he did not have a driver's license and found with a small amount of cocaine. because of the drugs he could have faced second degree murder charges and now being charged with first degree man slaughter and was arraigned on the driver's license and drug charges. he is under an immigration hold which means he doesn't get bail and will stay in federal custody until the case makes it through the court system. won't say if he has been deported before or if he had a known criminal background in mexico. the funeral is this friday. >> thank you. arthur should this be charged as a murder case? could it be? >> technically it could be.

compliments to the prosecuteor for charging this what it was. it was an accident. no speeding no weaving, no intoxication. he made a u-turn. everyone who has driven has made an illegal u-turn. >> not while holding cocaine. >> the prosecutor finds it irrelevant because he wasn't charged with it. >> the fact that he was in the country illegally and doesn't seem to care much for our laws and holding cocaine on him, is that relevant? >> it's very relevant. he didn't just make a u-turn from a proper lane. he made the u-turn from a second lane and didn't look. he had no regards for anyone else. >> the prosecutor is agreeing with both of us. >> calling it an accident. >> the crime -- >> it's a criminal offense. the police allegedly found a small amount of cocaine inside

of his wallet which is a felony. if somebody dies in the course of that felony can you get to murder? >> absolutely. it is a felony offense. possession of cocaine. which is punishable by up to five years in prison. in doing so, he caused the tragic demise of a beloved sports caster. >> he's charged with causing an accident without possessing a driver's license. that's the words in the law. i'm not making it up. he faces five years in jail. >> is he -- does the immigration violation catch up with him if he's found guilty or do we convict him on that and keep me here? >> he does the jail and gets deported. >> i'm not sure they'll deport him. >> why? >> i'm not so sure they'll deport him. i've had many clients convicted of this offense and i'm not sure it's priority. the possession of cocaine is

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big news tonight in the story of two killers on the run. the woman who helped them escape and what her husband is now saying. trace has that report. >> we are told it was common practice for inmates to cook inside their cells. joyce mitchell reportedly put the hack saw blades into frozen hamburger meat and asked a prison guard to give it to richard matt. a lawyer for palmer said the only thing his client is guilty

of is trusting mitchell. she would bring the inmates baked goods. and once asking officials to move sweat next to matt. joyce mitchell's husband said she did things for the killers because they give her attention. listen. >> i said how can it happy? she said this -- i got over my head and scared. she said i got something else to tell you. i said what's that? she said their plan was they wanted to kill you. she told me that matt wanted her to pick him up. she said i never leave without lyle never. and he said i'll give you some pills to give him to knock him out and we'll -- you can pick us up. she said i am not doing that. i love my husband. i am not hurting him. she said then i knew i was over my head. >> in the meantime authorities

continue searching the area around a hunting cabin where the hunters' dna was found. boots was found in the cabin suggesting one inmate is bare foot. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me... and you're talking to a rheumatologist about a biologic this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me reach for more. doctors have been prescribing humira for more than 10 years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contrubutes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers including lymphoma have happened, as have blood liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb hepatitis b,

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there's something out there. it's a highly contagious disease. it can be especially serious- even fatal to infants. unfortunately, many people who spread it may not know they have it. it's called whooping cough. and the cdc recommends everyone, including those around babies, make sure their whooping cough vaccination is up to date. understand the danger your new grandchild faces. talk to your doctor or pharmacist about you and your family getting a whooping cough vaccination today. do you think he was trying to decapitate you? >> yes, ma'am. >> he was actually in the process of beheading you? >> yes. >> tomorrow night, only here a

special television event. tracy johnson the umwooen nearly beheaded on u.s. soil moments after her co-worker actually was beheaded tells her story for the first time. 9:00 p.m. eastern. hope you'll join us. welcome to "hannity" this is a fox news alert. a report revealed freddie gray sustained a high energy injury while be transported in a police van. freddie gray was arrested in april and reportedly suffered fatal injuries while in police custody. his death set off a wave of violent protests in the city of baltimore. joining us to explain what this all means forensic pathologist is with us. let's go single high energy injury to the neck and spine. in other words, and they think it happened when it was a deceleration of the automobile. >> right. >> so