>> not something we see here. >> there was a deer in manhattan yester there? >> we'll see you at 6:00 tomorrow. >> see you tomorrow. the u.s. on high alert after deadly terror attacks at an american company in france. and separate attacks in tunisia and kuwait. the fbi and homeland security issuing a joint bulletin warning of a heightened possibility of a terror attack here tied to our july 4th holiday. our lives, our economy at risk. hi everyone. i'm brenda buttner. this is "bulls & bears." and here we've got the bulls and bears this week gary b. smith, jonas max faris, john layfield with gary and sasha burns. welcome, everybody.

terrorists are out to kill but are they aiming at our economy as well? >> yes, they are. look at specifically what happened on tunisia on the beach, a western beach, a holiday beach, specifically targeted to disrupt the western tunisian economy. very similar to what they would like to do here. pt i don't want to be an alarmist. next week we have the caliphate declaration anniversary and july 4th two big events that are occurring in just a matter of just the next week that is going on. and you look at what happened post 9/11, the two to three trillion dollar of expeps caused to our economy, not to mention the thousands of lives lost that day and in the war on terror following that. it's so much better to prevent this from happening than it is to have to react to it. i think our fbi and homeland security has tone an exceptional job of stopping these terror attacks from happening so far.

>> jonas, 9/11 was very much aimed at the seat of capital ism in many ways near wall street and ground zero. in the same way, these isis-inspired attacks, they're going after symbol, we hear that from sources, going after symbols. july 4th very similar pollic. what do you make of that? >> i do because they don't really control weapons of mass destruction or armies, there's just a few people. they have to hit the economy because you can scare people into changing their behavior. you can't kill a few million people with knives and pro pap tanks. the ratio of terrorists or wannabe terrorists in america to actual citizens is so astronomically wild they couldn't do a lot. it's like buying a lotto ticket and changing your behavior because you might win. it's that absurd not to do something because of the threat of terrorism in america. africa there are more terrorist wannabes than in america.

we just don't have that many here. we shouldn't have to worry as much in other countries. i think people need to calm down about the actual risk of terrorism and let law enforcement and the fbi do their business. >> they take aim at our confidence. once people want to stay inside and thee random attacks make you want to cocoon more because you have no idea is it going to be at a big place like the world trade center or on main street in des moines? you just don't know. gary what do you think that means in terms of our economy? you come from orlando, the, you know terrorist -- not the -- the tourist capital of the united states. what do you think would happen there? >> look we are a resilient bunch, and unless it's some sort of a 9/11 attack which is as john said really had a major effect and unless there is a slew of attacks in areas like the malls or the movie theaters that really affect people and how they feel about what they do on a daily basis, i think everything's going to be a-okay. if something does occur, just

remember we will remember we will get them and then we will move on and then we'll go back to business again. i don't think the economy takes a hit at all. >> sasha, what's your take? >> you know, the whole point of terrorism is instead of having militaries fighting each other so it's to make everyone feel it can happen anywhere anytime. i agree with gary k. you don't allow it to happen. you don't let terrorists affect how you live your life. you go to your 4th of july. i do sigh a breath of relief on september 12th but we just go on with our lives. >> gary b.? >> i'm surprised we have such pollyannas on the panel other than john they're all like whistling while you work. i want to go back to some of the economic consequences. for only a half a million dollars, al qaeda caused, as john pointed out, $3.3 trillion

hit to the economy. now, you say all right, well isis is not going to hijack planes and go through all that stuff. well look at in 2002 i was living here in d.c. we had the d.c. snipers. two idiots driving around in a car pretty much shut down the city and the suburbs for about 2 1/2, 3 weeks. i know it because my kids were in high school and we canceled high school sports that were outside. i'm sure a lot of other company picnics, really anything that you had to go do outside was shut down. so we could all say, oh we'll recover, we'll move on. i get that. but we didn't in d.c. for about 2 1/2 weeks. if it was something bigger it would be even worse. >> when all is said and done we get past things. we go back to business. and i understand that something bad could happen. i understand that they are out there and they are a determined

bunch to come at us and kill our confidence but i'm just saying our economy is much bigger than them. >> yes, of course. >> and when we get back to business it's over and done with. >> i that it say it but that's obvious. we got past world war ii for crying out loud and germany and japan are our allies now. i get that. but what we're talking about is will it have a significant hit on the economy, i think the answer is unequivocally yes, sir.sir sir. >> john to gary's point about that it's the very random act of these would-be jihadis, basically, who are staying here they're not now going overseas it's something that they're staying here. it could happen anywhere. it's not just new york l.a. the big cities. that could have an important impact again, on confidence and on that whole cocooning. >> yeah. and that's very hard to stop almost impossible when you talk about a lone wolf that is going out there that doesn't care about his own life or her life blowing themselves up and trying

to cause terror by doing so. that is almost impossible to stop. but when you look at what gary b. is talking act, you're talking act -- polio is supposed to be a trillion-dollar disease and we've e vlad kated it through prevention. if we can prevent these terror attacks to the best part we can't prevent them all, think if we prevented 9/11 we're spending billions of dollars in the middle east fighting isis because we are trying to develop some type of plan. we have to develop that plan in the middle east to knock this terrorism out, not because we're trying to build a nation over there. i don't care about building iraq or afghanistan. i've been there eight different times. i don't think there's a chance over there of what's going on. we do it to protect americans and that is what's most important. we got to figure out a way to stop this terror from ever happening. >> john talks about prevention jonas. some sources are telling fox news that the time between expressing solidarity with isis which is protected, of course

by the first amendment, and actuallying to something is shortening. so it's more difficult to prevent these attacks. >> i don't think you can prevent all attacks which is why we have to focus on not overreacting. gary is correct in the sense that's the problem. people will overreact like with the d.c. sniper and that's the irrational part we need to address, part of the cure of taking power from the terrorists. if we behaved like that about everything you would never get in a car when it's snowing because your chance of dieing is so much higher. we have to put this in perspective that you don't need to change your behavior to protect the economy, which is what would happen not actual numbers of death. >> gary b. last word. 20 seconds. >> i love what jonas is saying it's not going to happen. like people that said when the stock market is high and the next dip i'm going to buy and it keeps dropping and dropping and they throw up their hands at the bottom. very tough to change human

behavior. >> that's got to be the last word. thanks guys. "cavuto on business" in about 20 minutes from now. hey, neil. what have you got? >> hey, brenda. with isis terrorists on the attack over there, did we just embolden them to target americans everywhere? plus you think you're normal? just normal? well, the epa chief says you are not if you are not buying into climate change. are you buying that? we'll see you soon. >> you will. thanks neil. we'll be watching. up here first -- >> after multiple challenges to this law before the supreme court, the affordable care act is here to stay. >> here to stay but some here say what may not be here to stay is the lifesaving health care service as you now know it. lectronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about

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one of the two escaped killers is dead the other still on the run that the hour. richard matt shot and killed last night in malone in upstate new york about 30 miles from the prison where they broke out of three weeks ago. a border patrol agent shooting matt when he was continue fronted behind a cabin and refewed to cooperate. the other escapee, david sweat, still on the run. police say they believe they're closing in on him. >> we have no actual sighting of sweat by law enforcement but we have no indication that sweat wasn't accompanying matt at the time he was shot and killed so we'll main tin the perimeter that we have continue to do a good ground search. >> sweat now being chased by some 1,100 law enforcement officers who are focusing on a 22-square-mile area. i'm uma pemmaraju. now back to more of "bulls & bears." for all our headlines, foxnews.com. so after that big supreme court ruling the president says the health care law is here to

stay. but gary b. says that means the first-class health care service we expect in america is going away. what do you mean? >> absolutely brenda. when the government sticks its finger in an economic dike looking to shore it up here and there, we have less choice. we've seen that across -- in fact we've seen that already in health care. government has been involved in health care through medicare medicaid for years and years and years. people have longer wait times, they have less choice. if you don't think that's true look at the only area of health care that is close to a free market and that's elective surgery, plastic surgery, most people call it. there you have the broadest choice, the best availability you see prices advertised across the board. doctors compete. that's why classic surgery has actually in cost come down where health care has gone up. >> well sascha what do you think?

will we see longer waits? we're taking health care out of the hands of doctors and patients and putting it in the hands of government. what do you think that means? >> i would disagree. i don't think we're putting it in the hand of government at all. i think we've been hearing for five years that the world was going to end because of obamacare and it hasn't happened. it's actually successful. the insurance companies are doing fine, the providers are doing fine people are covered for the first time ever people with pre-existing conditions can get health insurance. it's not going to lead to the collapse of our health care. it's just not. >> john would you take on some of those opinions? >> yeah absolutely. you have about 50 million people that were uninsured before 6 million that have gone on some type of obamacare, about 10 million to 11 million people that went on medicare and the other 35 million, 45% of those say they don't want the insurance because -- i do this every once in a while with a doctor. i have a deductible. i said will you get me in for

cash? you have a lot of people that are doing that right now in this economy so you're seeing a lot of doctors come offline because of that. imagine what we did. this was not health care reform. this was insurance reform. off company, health care that is broken and all you do is stick in 17 million more people you're not going to fix it by volume. all you're going to do is make matters much worse. that's what it's done. if obamacare is here to stay fine but fix it. we have not done anything to fix health care. >> jonas? >> i don't think you can characterize it as not being in the hand of government. a lot of it is through medicaid expanding, that said it was in the hands of insurance companies which had a similar effect to some people before. there's definitely winners and losers. if you didn't have insurance, a long line for service you're not paying for yourself that subsidized is definitely a quality improvement. you can't deny that. if you had a cadillac insurance plan as a union person or hedge fund guy you're taking a step down, no difference about it. it's going more in a cash direction, i think that was

brought up by mr. layfield that's a free market. we've never really had that. there's no law against paying someone cash and they can come up with their own fee and you can dodge all this garbage with whether it's the insurance companies doing it or the government setting the rates for medicare or medicaid. you can just say when are you going to get me in i'll pay for it. i think the middle is where you're seeing compromises of lines and waiting because they can't afford to go cash because they're too wealthy. >> there is a simple outcome here. tons of doctors are turning down insurance, they're turning down procedures because they are not getting paid what they used to get paid. on top of that you're adding all these people into the mix and try get an appointment. hey, mr. doctor i broke my leg, oh see me in seven weeks. this is the outcome and it only gets worse as we move forward. >> sascha? >> we have the worst quality outcomes in the world and we spend the most by far. absolutely. >> where do you get that?

>> absolutely. >> in africa? >> we're like a third-world country of health care. >> of industrialized nations. of the top nations. we have the worst quality outcomes and we spend the most money, and they have 100% universal health care. i'm talking about europe. i'm talking about the uk and norway. we spend so much more. our care is so much worse. fewer people involved so it's not going to happen. >> i'll make my bet on the hots and the doctors here versus europe any day of the week. >> to be fair it was never really first class. it was like domestic first class. it was never concord. it was this kind of expensive, not the greatest. >> okay. that's got to be the last word. thanks, guys. "cahin' in" just over an hour from now. what do you have coming up eric? >> hi brenda. terror threats are mounting so why are we scrambling this weekend to do a deal with the biggest sponsor of terror? plus college kids can't tell the difference between real political candidates and

outrageous fake ones. does that spell trouble for america's future? we play the tape, you decide. see you at 11:30. up here first, fox on top of an irs over the top. first the e-mails were deleted, now the backup tapes erased? >> they destroyed evidence. we haven't even got into the content of the e-mails. we're just trying to get them to actually read amendment thnd figure out what was going on.

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these 422 tapes were magnetically erased around march 4th 2014. as was pointed out, this was one month after the irs realized they were missing e-mails from lois lerner and about eight months after this committee requested all documents and communications sent by received by or copied to lois lerner. >> you heard it. the backup tapes containing lois lerner's e-mail erased long after the investigations began looking into the agency targeting conservative groups. and well after the agency was told to preserve all evidence. john we could never get away with this. why should the irs snirs. >> you've got to be kidding me. this boggles the mind. i worked at a small investment bank on wall street. if something happened and they kwo to subpoena our e-mails and we say, sorry, the dog ate our home work, we go to jail we

certainly get in trouble. why is the irs held at less of a standard than a small investment bank on wall street? the government themselves say sorry, the dog ate our homework and we've lost our e-mails? this blows my mind. we go to jail for something like this. people say it's just the irs, it's politics. a different standard and it's completely wrong. >> sascha has there been some accountability here? >> when the first report came out a lot of the leadership at the irs was forced to resign. depending on what happens here that may happen again and rightly so if as it seems, there is wrongdoing although you can't underestimate bureaucratic incompetence. so whether or not it was incompetence or something nor nefarious, they have said no one outside of the irs or we should say no one in the white house, is what the point is had any knowledge of this. >> gary b. -- >> how do we know?

>> i'm doing my taxes next april 15th. and all of a sudden i get an audit and i'm, like well, you know i just don't have that stuff. >> the fact of the matter is a lot of people do do that. and i am actually not surprised. this is human nature. you're caught red-handed. you're going to try to it up. we had a president of the united states lie on oath to the public and he was not impeached. if we're willing to tolerate that i guess we can tolerate this. the bigger problem is why do we give the irs so much power to delve into our political lives? that's the overriding -- get it so we can pay tacks on a postcard we'll be good. >> gary k. >> three words -- obstruction of justice. the amazing thing to me how come is reporters aren't on top of this in a big way? this would be front page if it was a different administration and republican party. it is sickening to watch this and nothing getting done.

>> we're all over it. jonas, what do you think? >> don't confuse incompetence with malice. you know what the i.t. systems are like in the irs? probably big floppy drives. there could be a coincidence that's how they operate, so let's cut them some slack. to gar rice point, the fact they have discretion to choose that's the law's fault. there shouldn't be tax-exempt organizations. they don't have the staff to figure out who that is. don't give them that power, wouldn't be a problem in the first place. >> jonas will remain audit free i predict. thanks for join us. forget a vacation. more americans taking a workcation.

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>> forget the staycation. if you have to do real work on vacation you can't do it with an ipod. microsoft service prokoming out, 50% ride in microsoft. >> it's okay. think act this. in just 24 hours, a pe heading at an american-owned company in france three dozen beachgoers gunned down in tunisia. if isis inspired it is this any time to consider giving them cash to do more of it? a lot of families paid ransom so their captured loved ones don't suffer the same fate. rudy giuliani telling me no way in hell we help these butchers' business. >> announcement that you can have kidnapping. you're going to see -- isis looks at this and says great,