♪ i went wild when they laid my best friend in the ground ♪ ♪ sank in more than six feet down i'm going to miss your smile ♪ while we're taking off, the justice department now investigating whether airlines are ripping us off. alleging some carriers may be colluding to keep air fares high. are they right or wrong? hi everybody. i'm dagen mcdowell in for brenda buttner, and this is bulls and bears. the "bulls & bears" this week gary b. smith, jonas max faris john layfield along with ashley pratt and chuck rocha. welcome, everybody. ashley, is the government right to investigate? >> no. the government is absolutely wrong to investigate. this is a witch-hunt going after airlines. the point here i would like to make is the fact that in a $300 round-trip ticket 21% of that

cost is going to federal government taxes and fees that are imposed upon the consumer. they should turn the witch-hunt back around on them. would they rather an industry that has half empty seats or half empty planes that loses millions of dollars, or would they rather an industry that instead has full planes and is turning a profit that is able to then reinvest money into the economy that provides good middle-class jobs? because that's what the airlines are doing right now. and the only reason these are so high are because of the federal government taxes that are imposed upon, you know the airlines here and they have to absorb that cost somehow. >> john is this really going to make the flying experience any better? is it going to improve our lives any more? >> no and i don't understand why they're doing this. it's hard to fathom how wrong the government is in this. senator blumenthal, who lied about his military record has also come out and said air fares are sky-high. he's completely wrong on that.

if you go to 2014, the last year that we've had full year to measure, air fares are down 13% adjusted to inflation. meanwhile, oil prices went from $29 a barrel in 2000 to $99 a barrel in 2014. air fares are down a further 4% this year. if they're colluding to have extra capacity and have air fares go down it's the worst collusion in history. look i own airline stocks. i wish they were colluding and they were driving up prices and i wish they were taking away capacity. they're not. they're running a terrible airline and this is an absolute witch-hunt. >> the government approved four megamergers and now the government's worried about there being too few airlines. chuck, to you. what do you say? >> i'm glad they're stepping in for the working class getting on airplanes every day and getting shoved in the sardine box, have to pay for your chips and coke. they made $3.5 billion in the first quarter this year. cry me a river. then they all get together and say let's make sure we keep this

so competitive we could keep prices going up as oil went down as the markets are sliding more. a shame they would do this to the american flying public. >> gary b. we know one thing, when airlines were heavily regulated before deregulation when the government controlled them it was too expensive for the little guy, the working guy to fly. >> exactly. i like chuck, always the working guy, has that southern accent. nobody ever worked with a working guy north of the mason/dixon. chuck should be railing against starbucks, i guess, too, because the working guy can't go in there and buy a cup of joe for a quarter anymore. >> too expensive as well. 7-eleven has good coffee. >> here's the thing, chuck advocates or implies that government should step in to protect the working public. let me tell you, back in 1974 when the airline industry was heavily regulated, it was illegal, illegal to fly from new

york to los angeles for less than $1,440. i looked up before i came to the show now you can fly new york to l.a.x. for $250. if chuck wants the working class out there to benefit, you've got to look at history and say, hmm, did they benefit more when government was involved or when government's not involved? >> you can't argue against that. >> first of all, we don't like taxes and -- that doesn't prove or disprove collusion. the fact that collusion is illegal,wy we might not like it but that's the way it is. you can go to google flight search right now and prove collusion in five minutes. right now to fly from laguardia to charlotte is $931 for next friday. that is a 280-mile direct flight. delta and american the exact same price to the dollar. you can fly delta to milan from jfk next friday for $1,163. that's 15 times the miles for

25% more money. does that make sense? you don't think that's a soft collusion? let's keep the same price and not lower it. i won't, wink wink lower my price unless you don't. that's going on. an l.a.x. route which you bought you can't eve -- that's why it's cheap. >> jonas, by your argument when you go to safeway and pay x dollars for a dozen bananas and go across the street to kroger and pay the same price, you would say kroger and safeway must be colluding. no. that's just the market forces. >> no because the bananas are 99 cents a pound and safeway charged $10.99 a pound and so did the place across the street but if you could go to a supermarket two hours away and they were 80 cents a pound, you would say that's a little fishy. that's what's going on in certain routes where there's not enough airlines serving the same direct route. you can do tests online with pricing. >> broadly speaking, what has gone on, the airlines are thinking -- are still adding capacity they're still adding seats. but they're concerned about

their businesses right now, and the government doesn't like it. >> rightfully so. they should be concerned. the government is knocking on the door looking to rip it away from them like everything else. small business owners in america fear the federal government and the bureaucracy it throws to them. that's the whole point here. they're adding capacity. they're the ones who have to go to the federal government to get mergers approved and they open cases and never close them. it seems like this is the flavor of the week for the department of justice, and that is honestly going to end up hurting the consumers more. not only that but airlines have been extremely transparent and have even fought for i believe it's the transparent air fare act which actually shows how much of your dollar is going to taxes when you purchase an airline ticket. guess what? less than 3%. it's probably closer to 2% are actually going to the actual airline when you purchase a ticket. >> my bags and my coca-cola should be free.

i ain't paying extra for that. that's what i'm saying. >> then you can drive, chuck. you can drive yourself. >> you should see how big my truck is. it's easier for me to fly a plane. >> chuck, you have to separate making money legitimate from colluding. apple charges more for pcs when you compare -- they're cooler looking and people want to pay more. that's not colluding. that's a better business. when you have the same crummy little three-seater plane going a 280-mile route at the same price going to milan in a wide body, that's collusion because they have less competition on that route. it's not one airline going there. they locked it up and they can charge what they want. that's -- >> but the government allowed the consolidation. >> how do you explain why that's the pricing? >> it's not collusion. >> what is it? >> if you look at take your banana example, if you have a store across the street that also sells produce, you have to match your prices like gary b. says if you want to sell those

bananas. but if you are the only one in america that has the right to sell bananas you can price it 15 times what you normally would. that is called a free market. you don't have a right to fly. it's not like liberty and the pursuit of frequent flier miles. this isn't mass transit. >> why wouldn't one of the two airlines -- get back to collusion. why would one of the airlines not drop the price from $931 because of it? >> all of the planes are full. >> that's what's making the industry healthy. >> another story. they fly one plane a day to this route because they can keep the prices -- until another airline comes in there and there's a third, then they can't do it. >> you would rather -- >> one person at a time. >> listen, a company can charge more than another for a better product not because there's no competition. that's another story. it's even worse when there's two competitors locking prices together. that's collusion. >> let me ask you gary b. this question.

if the government gets involved in looking into this alleged soft collusion that jonas is talking about, is that really going to improve the experience and make the world of flying better for anybody? >> dagen, there's two answers. the answer to number one is yes, jonas has had too much coffee before doing the show. and, two, the other answer is no when has the government got involved in any industry where they made it better? they basically ruined health care. can you honestly say health care now is better because of government than it was years ago? no. if we had a free market in health care for crying out loud we'd see lower prices across the board like we do in plastic surgery, where government's not involved. when government gets involved it screws things up. they're going to screw up the airline industry the more they step in just like they did 50 years ago when prices were sky-high and you couldn't afford to fly. >> thank you, gary b. final word one more thing, gary at least you don't have to

go home with that guy. i do. >> good point. >> i hope he instruments you as much. >> thanks guys. "cavuto on business" is about 20 minute ace way. charles is in for neil. what's going on? >> a day for celebration, now also a day of caution. authorities across the country scouring the web to track terror threats, and wants social media companies to help them do more. should they? hitting the road this weekend? get ready for new gas taxes. and where are those extra dollars going? see you soon. >> thanks charles. we can't wait. up here first, we just saw a dramatic drop in the number of people in the workforce. now the president's mandating more overtime pay. but will more job seekers pay?

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nationwide celebrating our country's birthday and law enforcement is on alert. security is heightened over fears of possible attacks on our independence day dey. the fed say there's no specific threat but there are reports of a rise in terror chatter on social media. a medical helicopter crashing in colorado exploding and bursting into flames. crews put out the fire crickly but not before the flames burnt up a truck. the pilot was killed and two passengers were hospitalized. i'm heather childress. i'll be seeing you throughout the day at patriots point. at 5:00 p.m. eastern time when we celebrate proud americans. now back to "bulls & bears." a mixed jobs report in june where more jobs were created but

432,000 americans dropped out of the workforce. the president is pushing new rules to expand overtime pay. he says it will boost america's wages. but gary b. says get ready for job losses. >> dagen, i just scratch my head at the lack of knowledge of how businesses run and basic economics. would someone please from the press ask president obama where he thinks this smun going to come from? i guess he's assuming byes will take less profits, and maybe that's true but say they do. then if they take -- if they keep everyone that they have hired and they take less profits, that's called retained earnings. then they have less money to put into business expansion. what do you do in business expansion? you hire more people. and if you can't expand you can't hire more people. but what most business owners will do is say i got to cut back i can't afford these people. i'm paying them too much. that's what's going to happen. that's just basic common business sense and something this administration is clueless

about. >> john they will go out and hire somebody for a lower salary period. if they have to work them overtime rather than pay them existing salary plus time and a half they will hire somebody at lower pay. >> yeah and that's exactly what businesses are going to do. what gary b. and what you're talking about, dagen, they'll hire part-time workers so they don't have to pay overtime. this takes away flexibility with things like restaurant y to rush stay over for an extra hour that kills that because they'll bring in somebody part-time to deal with that. what bothers me with this administration and this particularly is middle-class jobs have been lost. they've been lost before president obama, going back to about 2000 since manufacturing really left the country in wave but they continued unabated under president obama. the middle class has been stloit destroyed. he doesn't have a plan because congress can't get along with him or themselves to do anything to create jobs out there. so all he's going to say is those people that are out there that have jobs i'm going to

mandate it for you to get paid more. that's not a way to help the economy. >> how does this help except through redistribution? >> depends -- okay you're not going to fix income inequality or outsourcing through tinkering with the wage laws or anything of that matter. that said, it's sort of like what japan does. when you mandate a high overtime pay, pretend it's $1,000 an hour for anybody working over 40 hours. obviously no one will get an hour of work after 40 hours so your extra overtime pay is going to hire another person to do the job you would have done. it is a less flexible workforce in japan but they have 3% unemployment most of the time. if you want to drive the unemployment rate artificially lower, which doesn't mean it's a better economy but can you get re-elect then yes, make overtime expensive. if you want a dynamic workforce where you can use labor 60 hours or 30 hour don't do it. >> ashley he just hit on it, to paraphrase "the wall street

journal," this is a keep the democrats in office plan and nothing more. >> this is a political play at best. we're going to help the middle clas. this does nothing but hurt the very people that they claim they're trying to help. this will lose jobs in the long run. we're going to see businesses that are going to cut back their hours and cut back their staff because they can't afford to comply with this. they can't absorb the cost. i wish this president would understand that and realize that he is going to cut millions of americans' jobs in the long run and in the future of this economy because small businesses won't be opening, there won't be people willing to take risks and try to what extent pand our economy at all because they're going to be too afraid of the red tape and bureaucracy that follows it. >> this is on top of changing the workweek through obamacare from 40 to 30 hours and basically giving businesses an incentive to cut people's hours. >> here's a shocker for you. it's going to be a boost to the economy. when you give poor folks more money, guess what they do? they spend that money. and guess what -- >> where is the money coming from chuck?

>> they spend money now. >> where is it coming from chuck? >> that's -- >> where is it coming from? >> -- pay workers enough to be able to buy their own car, right? >> -- providing over 40 hours a week. >> if you can't -- guess what, they'll hire more people. that's why we've created 7.2 million jobs in our administration. >> the truth hurts sometimes. >> still the loes percentage -- >> nobody -- >> three times. >> i get the final word. >> gay marriage is legal. >> i'll cut your mike off. you know what? you know why they're doing it? no increase in take-home pay in the last six years. so if we can't raise your wages through economic growth we'll just hand the money to you. thank you, guys. "cahin' in" is just over an hour

from now. eric what do you have coming up? >> hi dagen. america is on higher the or the alert this independence day. but how independent are we really if we always have to worry about isis? plus the donald getting dissed by nbc, univision, and macy's. what does this say about politics in business? we debate you decide. see you at 11:30. >> thanks, eric. we will be watching. up here first, why ma what's happening over there could actually help us get this number under control right here at home. ♪ every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. ♪ those who have served our nation have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve.

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to greece and a big fat greek mess ahead of tomorrow's big bailout vote. people have been lining up at atms all week. most banks remain closed. pensioners scrambling to get their cash. and if you don't think these dramatic scenes can happen here john you say think again, right? >> absolutely. look at what's going on with puerto rico and with chicago and in illinois. we don't have a politician with a backbone in washington, d.c. under president bush the debt

almost doubled. under president obama it will almost double again. this is bipartisan. these guys are reckless. nobody is going to stand up unless we get somebody new. >> ashley, this is our future right? >> yes. greece has one of the highest youth unemployment rates. so does the united states. if we don't get our house in order and cut government programs i fear we're headed off the cliff as well. >> chuck, what do you say? >> i would agree with john none of the politicians in washington, d.c. want to take this on. they want to make sure their districts are taken care of and keep the money. there's enough blame to go arnold but there needs to be blame on both sides. >> i won't cut your mike promise. gary b.? >> we are greece. the debt as a percentage of gdp, we're exactly where greece was 25 years ago. where will we be in 25 years? exactly where greece is now. if we don't do something, we'll be racing to the atm to get our $64 out.

>> jonas? >> i agree with nobody. the only time this happens is when banks make stupid investments with their money. as far as the debt this government saved $200 million for every $100 billion in debt on monday after they started lining up for those atms because it makes our debt look good compared to that's losers and that makes our borrowing costs lower which lowers our debt which is a good thing for us. >> thank you, jonas. that encourages us to borrow even more. yay. thank you to ashley and chuck for joining us. happy fourth of july guys and gals. as you fire up those grills for your barbecue we're holding these guys' feet to the fire. we've got their best and worst calls for the first half of the year including the name already serving up a 50% gain and it could get even hotter in the second half. i'm neil cavuto and i'm a proud american because i get to say anything i want about anyone

i want. and all thanks to the sacrifices of those who have done much heavier lifting than me. so i'm free to read a prompter and praise them for all they've done for us. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet?

the most fair and balanced way to make money on tv. our best and worst calls and how you can still profit at the half-year scoreboard.

we do the bad and the good on bulls"bulls & bears"." jonas, you're up first. you said eat up profits with whole foods. nothing healthy about a 24% decline since march. you want to return to this pick? >> no because until my skills are better get out for the year. >> john, in may you said green mountain would do great. down 26%. can they get a second wind? >> i don't think so. they had a pr disaster. buy the coffee not the stock. >> for the worst call so far in 2015 gary b. you said tweet profits with twitter. #fail. down 29% since march. does it still have a chance to retweet profits? >> i don't like it. went you, yourself, stop using something or use it less sell. i use twitter actually less than i used to. i would sell it.

>> that makes me sad you not being on twitter. now on to the best calls. john you'll kick things off ahead of the super bowl you said the patriots and boston scientific would both be champs. you were right on both. bsx up 19%. you going long? >> i love the super bowl i love boston scientific but i wouldn't buy any more here. >> two, gary b., the gift that keeps on give netflix delivering a 39% gain since february. time to buy more? >> absolutely. it's the flip of twitter. i'm using it more. "breaking bad," "daredevil," "house of cards." keep buying. >> the number-one call in 2015 jonas, you said the skinny on fat making a comeback would have cal maine foods plumping up with profits and it did, up 44%. time to chow down on more? >> to gary's point, i'm drinking more raw eggs than rocky. i think this stock has another dozen percent left in it so hang on a little longer for the ride. >> thank you, gentlemen.

you are only going to get that fair and balanced pat on the back right here and a kick in the butt too on "bulls & bears".." "cavuto on business" starts right now. happy fourth of july. celebrating our freedom and staying on higher alert against terrorists looking to attack it. hello, everyone. i'm in for neil cavuto. on this july 4th here's another number for you -- 100,000. that's how many pieces of terror poewes are being made each day. authorities doing their best to track them and take these suspects down. but they say they need social media companies to step up. are they right or wrong? >> charlie gasparino, scott martin adam and lisa dagen mcdowell and ben stein will be back next week. social media, what's their role in helping us defeat the terrorists? >> look, i think they should get in